Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2011/2012

the realpigiron

TheBuilder wrote: »

UEFA are the biggest bunch of crooks going, they won't touch this with a barge pole in my opinion. They're too afraid of battles.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. A Rangers newco being allowed to maintain top flight status could set a precedent that will cause problems for them.

Dempsey

the realpigiron wrote: »

UEFA may step in if Rangers aren't punished properly. A Rangers newco not being relegated for the so called fiscal good of Scottish football, might set a precedent and open a can of worms that they can't allow to happen.

They'll only step in if a FA dont apply their own rules properly and it will be CAS that deals with it not UEFA themselves.

the realpigiron

TheBuilder wrote: »

Afraid not, it's FIFA rule that you can't compete in a league under another FA unless the country you are based in has no professional set up. It would mean relocating to England. Cardiff and Swansea joined the English league before the Welsh FA was established.

I'm sure it would be allowed in extreme circumstances, but I don't think it would work in this case.

Well if FIFA or UEFA are going to stick to their rules, then Rangers will have to be relegated.

I'd say you are wrong about Celtic or Rangers newco having to relocate if they played in England btw.

TheBuilder

Jelle, I could be wrong but it may be the rule was only established after Berwick were playing in the Scottish professional Leagues (1955).

TheBuilder

the realpigiron wrote: »

TheBuilder wrote: »

Afraid not, it's FIFA rule that you can't compete in a league under another FA unless the country you are based in has no professional set up. It would mean relocating to England. Cardiff and Swansea joined the English league before the Welsh FA was established.

I'm sure it would be allowed in extreme circumstances, but I don't think it would work in this case.

Well if FIFA or UEFA are going to stick to their rules, then Rangers will have to be relegated.

I'd say you are wrong about Celtic or Rangers newco having to relocate if they played in England btw.

I'm not wrong, go look up the rules. It's been mentioned umpteen times in the 'Old Firm - Premier League' debates.

Dempsey

the realpigiron wrote: »

Well if FIFA or UEFA are going to stick to their rules, then Rangers will have to be relegated.

I'd say you are wrong about Celtic or Rangers newco having to relocate if they played in England btw.

Quote that rule plz

the realpigiron

Dempsey wrote: »

They'll only step in if a FA dont apply their own rules properly and it will be CAS that deals with it not UEFA themselves.

I reckon it's too big a case for UEFA/CAS whatever body it may be to ignore. I reckon they will deal with it because they have to, the precedent would cause them huge headaches throughout the game across Europe if they don't.

Dempsey

the realpigiron wrote: »

I reckon it's too big a case for UEFA/CAS whatever body it may be to ignore. I reckon they will deal with it because they have to, the precedent would cause them huge headaches throughout the game across Europe if they don't.

UEFA/CAS wont be doing a tap unless a club takes legal action that the SFA/SPL didnt implement their own rules properly.

the realpigiron

Dempsey wrote: »

Quote that rule plz

Don't have the rule, might be wrong there. I'm not a solicitor. However, like I said, I don't think they can afford to ignore the precedent that might be set if a Rangers newco aren't relegated.

the realpigiron

Dempsey wrote: »

UEFA/CAS wont be doing a tap unless a club takes legal action that the SFA/SPL didnt implement their own rules properly.

Do you know what the SFA/SPL rules are in this case? If they don't demote a Rangers newco will they be breaking their own rules?

TheBuilder

the realpigiron wrote: »

Dempsey wrote: »

UEFA/CAS wont be doing a tap unless a club takes legal action that the SFA/SPL didnt implement their own rules properly.

Do you know what the SFA/SPL rules are in this case? If they don't demote a Rangers newco will they be breaking their own rules?

No because there are no rules stating they have to relegate them, yet anyway.

Dempsey

the realpigiron wrote: »

Do you know what the SFA/SPL rules are in this case? If they don't demote a Rangers newco will they be breaking their own rules?

The rule is that SPL board will vote on a member club transferring their SPL share to another entity. UEFA has no jurisdiction on the matter.

the realpigiron

TheBuilder wrote: »

No because there are no rules stating they have to relegate them, yet anyway.

Maybe that's why they are belatedly trying to change the rules. They should be relegated, shouldn't they. It will be an absolute joke if they are not, because it gives other clubs carte blanche to welch on their debts too.

Dempsey

the realpigiron wrote: »

Maybe that's why they are belatedly trying to change the rules. They should be relegated, shouldn't they. It will be an absolute joke if they are not, because it gives other clubs carte blanche to welch on their debts too.

The current rules apply to Rangers, not the pending ones.

the realpigiron

Dempsey wrote: »

The rule is that SPL board will vote on a member club transferring their SPL share to another entity. UEFA has no jurisdiction on the matter.

I'm sure the SPL are aware that they may be destroying their own league if they take what looks like the easy way out here.

Dempsey

the realpigiron wrote: »

I'm sure the SPL are aware that they may be destroying their own league if they take what looks like the easy way out here.

SPL clubs decide the future of the SPL and thats why there is a major risk of commercial interests taking priority over sporting integrity.

the realpigiron

Dempsey wrote: »

SPL clubs decide the future of the SPL and thats why there is a major risk of commercial interests taking priority over sporting integrity.

If the SPL clubs take the easy way out for purely commercial interests, then there is more than just high ideals of sporting integrity at stake. The precedent that will be set will open up all sorts of problems. Ball burst, game over.

Dempsey

the realpigiron wrote: »

If the SPL clubs take the easy way out for purely commercial interests, then there is more than just high ideals of sporting integrity at stake. The precedent that will be set will open up all sorts of problems. Ball burst, game over.

The second commercial interests clearly take precedent over sporting integrity will be the day I lose interest in supporting Celtic. As I said earlier, I've no interest in sports entertainment or supporting Celtic as a brand.

If SPL clubs think relegating Rangers will hurt them, selling out will end them all, including Celtic.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

There is some amount of pish talked on here about sporting integrity. Rangers will be punished I have no doubt about that but if the SPL take the view that Rangers should be docked points for two or three seasons which has been mooted then I hope that the club refuses and takes the leap to apply to Division three.

Dempsey

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

There is some amount of pish talked on here about sporting integrity. Rangers will be punished I have no doubt about that but if the SPL take the view that Rangers should be docked points for two or three seasons which has been mooted then I hope that the club refuses and takes the leap to apply to Division three.

some pish by you. you think sporting integrity is to jump through whatever hoops possible to avoid a fair punishment.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

some pish by you. you think sporting integrity is to jump through whatever hoops possible to avoid a fair punishment.

You need to read posts properly I clearly stated that Rangers should accept a fair punishment but not this nonsense of docking points for two or three seasons. Certain clubs want their cake and be able to eat it to they want us docked points so we have no chance of really competing and expect Rangers to take fans to their ****ty wee grounds to fill their coffers and to make sure the SKY deal stays in place. Well I along with the vast majority of fans would rather see us go to division three its simple really

Dempsey

ye voted for these rules but dont want to abide by them when they are being applied to you.

Jelle1880

Erm, those punishments haven't been voted through actually.

Always funny to see 'sporting integrity' being used though.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

ye voted for these rules but dont want to abide by them when they are being applied to you.

No these punishments are not in the rule book in fact I think you will find they don't even know if they can sanction us.
So maybe you should check your facts before jumping in

the realpigiron

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

There is some amount of pish talked on here about sporting integrity. Rangers will be punished I have no doubt about that but if the SPL take the view that Rangers should be docked points for two or three seasons which has been mooted then I hope that the club refuses and takes the leap to apply to Division three.

They should be relegated to division 3. I'm not sure you get it. Sporting integrity is not just a word, it's vital, because people wont support something if they see it as rotten. Look at sports like cycling or lots of Olympic sports, people don't take them seriously anymore after years of scandals of one kind or another.

You can and do find corruption everywhere in the game of football. There is always corruption when money is involved. There was corruption in Italy a few years back, but sanctions were handed out. Fiorentina and Juventus two of the biggest clubs in Italy were relegated for their part in corruption, they weren't spared just because they were two of the biggest clubs in Italy. The same must apply to Rangers. If Rangers dodge proper punishment then the game in Scotland which is already impoverished will be finished entirely and devoid of any respect.

Lots of people wont support it anymore. Rangers and the other SPL clubs can't take the easy way out here.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

the realpigiron wrote: »

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

There is some amount of pish talked on here about sporting integrity. Rangers will be punished I have no doubt about that but if the SPL take the view that Rangers should be docked points for two or three seasons which has been mooted then I hope that the club refuses and takes the leap to apply to Division three.

They should be relegated to division 3. I'm not sure you get it. Sporting integrity is not just a word, it's vital, because people wont support something if they see it as rotten. Look at sports like cycling or lots of Olympic sports, people don't take them seriously anymore after years of scandals of one kind or another.

You can and do find corruption everywhere in the game of football. There is always corruption when money is involved. There was corruption in Italy a few years back, but sanctions were handed out. Fiorentina and Juventus two of the biggest clubs in Italy were relegated for their part in corruption, they weren't spared just because they were two of the biggest clubs in Italy. The same must apply to Rangers. If Rangers dodge proper punishment then the game in Scotland which is already impoverished will be finished entirely and devoid of any respect.

Lots of people wont support it anymore. Rangers and the other SPL clubs can't take the easy way out here.

Do you actually read posts before you type I and many other Rangets fans would only be to glad to go to Div 3 why because we would rather that than have to suffer points deductions that would see us in the SPL on other clubs terms I think it's these clubs you should be having your gripe with.

Oh and please give up on this sporting integrity nonsense your own club showed they had none of that when they lied about going to Japan on tour or is that different

Jelle1880

Or when they decided to keep a proven bigot as their official supporters' spokesman.

the realpigiron

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Do you actually read posts before you type I and many other Rangets fans would only be to glad to go to Div 3 why because we would rather that than have to suffer points deductions that would see us in the SPL on other clubs terms I think it's these clubs you should be having your gripe with.

Oh and please give up on this sporting integrity nonsense your own club showed they had none of that when they lied about going to Japan on tour or is that different

There has been corruption and scandals involved in football with all sorts of clubs for years, but rarely on the scale of disgrace at Rangers FC, so shut up with your whataboutery. The scale of financial scandal at Rangers is such that Rangers must be seen to be severely punished for the game as a whole in Scotland. I'm not sure you get that.

You are in no position to complain about whatever sanction is imposed on your club. I think you should be relegated to division 3, but if you are deducted points every season for a 3 year time span that means you wont be winning titles that is another form of punishment - not the one I would choose for ye but punishment nonetheless. Whatever punishment is meted out should be draconian and you should shut up and take it.

Your club has behaved disgracefully over many many years and you are cribbing about the form of punishment you are likely to receive. You have no right to complain. It's sack cloth and ashes for Scotlands SHAME.

the realpigiron

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Or when they decided to keep a proven bigot as their official supporters' spokesman.

More whataboutery from Scotland's SHAME.

TheBuilder

I think, just maybe, the realpigiron wants us relegated.

Jelle1880

the realpigiron wrote: »

More whataboutery from Scotland's SHAME.

So facts are 'whataboutery' ?

TheBuilder

the realpigiron wrote: »

There has been corruption and scandals involved in football with all sorts of clubs for years, but rarely on the scale of disgrace at Rangers FC, so shut up with your whataboutery. The scale of financial scandal at Rangers is such that Rangers must be seen to be severely punished for the game as a whole in Scotland. I'm not sure you get that.

You are in no position to complain about whatever sanction is imposed on your club. I think you should be relegated to division 3, but if you are deducted points every season for a 3 year time span that means you wont be winning titles that is another form of punishment - not the one I would choose for ye but punishment nonetheless. Whatever punishment is meted out should be draconian and you should shut up and take it.

Your club has behaved disgracefully over many many years and you are cribbing about the form of punishment you are likely to receive. You have no right to complain. It's sack cloth and ashes for Scotlands SHAME.

You seem to be confusing rangers going into administration and the possibility of a newco with the alleged and unproven use of EBT's etc.

The punishments right now are to do with administration and Miller possibky establishing a newco, not in relation to what we might have done in the past.

Now, what you should do, is take a deep breath and relax, because your continued angry calls for relegation and claims of scandals etc can't be good for your blood pressure.

the realpigiron

TheBuilder wrote: »

I think, just maybe, the realpigiron wants us relegated.

So does BBE and other Rangers fans by the looks of it. Would you prefer a whitewash? There's no easy way out of this, Rangers FC have made such an almighty mess of things. Hopefully the SPL clubs will maintain some integrity and seek to impose proper sanction on Rangers.

the realpigiron

TheBuilder wrote: »

You seem to be confusing rangers going into administration and the possibility of a newco with the alleged and unproven use of EBT's etc.

The punishments right now are to do with administration and Miller possibky establishing a newco, not in relation to what we might have done in the past.

Now, what you should do, is take a deep breath and relax, because your continued angry calls for relegation and claims of scandals etc can't be good for your blood pressure.

Don't need any advice from you pal. I'm well aware of what's at stake here, and your juvenile attempts to downgrade it just makes you look like a bit of an eejit.

This will all come to a head fairly soon. Given the enormity of the financial scandal at Rangers, the right thing must be done and must be seen to be done.

TheBuilder

the realpigiron wrote: »

TheBuilder wrote: »

I think, just maybe, the realpigiron wants us relegated.

So does BBE and other Rangers fans by the looks of it. Would you prefer a whitewash? There's no easy way out of this, Rangers FC have made such an almighty mess of things. Hopefully the SPL clubs will maintain some integrity and seek to impose proper sanction on Rangers.

For different reasons.

You want us relegated for unproven financial discrepancies (EBTs etc).

What the rest of us want, is relegation as opposed to being crippled in the SPL just so scum like Thompson at Dundee United can keep his bank happy with the money the fans pour into his club twice a season.

There's a big difference.

TheBuilder

the realpigiron wrote: »

Don't need any advice from you pal. I'm well aware of what's at stake here, and your juvenile attempts to downgrade it just makes you look like a bit of an eejit.

This will all come to a head fairly soon. Given the enormity of the financial scandal at Rangers, the right thing must be done and must be seen to be done.

I think you'll find you're the one looking silly, you're the one that continues to think the clubs are deciding on punishing us for financial 'scandals' when it is actually to do with going into admin/newco.

The EBT stuff will no doubt come to ahead at a later date, when no doubt you'll be ranting similarly.

the realpigiron

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So facts are 'whataboutery' ?

What you are engaging in is whataboutery. We are talking about the disgraceful financial scandal at Rangers and the need for proper punishment. You wont be able to deflect from that issue with whataboutery, the scale of the issue with Rangers is too big to whitewash and deflect from.

the realpigiron

TheBuilder wrote: »

For different reasons.

You want us relegated for unproven financial discrepancies (EBTs etc).

What the rest of us want, is relegation as opposed to being crippled in the SPL just so scum like Thompson at Dundee United can keep his bank happy with the money the fans pour into his club twice a season.

There's a big difference.

No you want to stay in the SPL without point deductions, that is what you want. You want your club to go unpunished, even if that means being to the detriment and devaluing of the game as a whole in Scotland.

Jelle1880

the realpigiron wrote: »

What you are engaging in is whataboutery. We are talking about the disgraceful financial scandal at Rangers and the need for proper punishment. You wont be able to deflect from that issue with whataboutery, the scale of the issue with Rangers is too big to whitewash and deflect from.

I'm not deflecting anything, as you may have seen if you would have bothered to post your rants in the right topic.

TheBuilder

the realpigiron wrote: »

No you want to stay in the SPL without point deductions, that is what you want. You want your club to go unpunished, even if that means being to the detriment and devaluing of the game as a whole in Scotland.

You continue to show no understanding of what is actually happening, only what you believe in your warped 12 year old mind.

There's no point even discussing this further with you.

Eirebear

Piggy's a wee bit agitated today isnt he?

Why so angry buddy? Scared the SPL have shat themselves and you'll need to deal with the big bad Rangers forever more?
Where you this annoyed when Portsmouth and Leeds set up "Newcos" and werent relegated to the bottom tier of English football? Just seeing as you seem to think it's somehow worse at Ibrox.

the realpigiron

TheBuilder wrote: »

You continue to show no understanding of what is actually happening, only what you believe in your warped 12 year old mind.

There's no point even discussing this further with you.

Whether it's punishment for financial scandals or punishment for setting up a newco, the sanctions must still be imposed.

I understand perfectly well what's happening here. Genuine supporters of football in Scotland understand it too, and they will withdraw their support if justice is not seen to be meted out.

the realpigiron

Eirebear wrote: »

Piggy's a wee bit agitated today isnt he?

Why so angry buddy? Scared the SPL have shat themselves and you'll need to deal with the big bad Rangers forever more?
Where you this annoyed when Portsmouth and Leeds set up "Newcos" and werent relegated to the bottom tier of English football? Just seeing as you seem to think it's somehow worse at Ibrox.

We'll see what happens if a whitewash is attempted, everyone is watching this, your club are not going to get off lightly.

the realpigiron

Eirebear wrote: »

Piggy's a wee bit agitated today isnt he?

Why so angry buddy? Scared the SPL have shat themselves and you'll need to deal with the big bad Rangers forever more?
Where you this annoyed when Portsmouth and Leeds set up "Newcos" and werent relegated to the bottom tier of English football? Just seeing as you seem to think it's somehow worse at Ibrox.

The big bad Rangers:pac:. Now that's a joke, more like the pathetic excuse for a football club that can't pay it's own way.

Eirebear

the realpigiron wrote: »

We'll see what happens if a whitewash is attempted, everyone is watching this, your club are not going to get off lightly.

Hate to tell you pal - but you're the one acting as if it's already happened.

Lets put it into perspective.
The SPL push through these measures that are proposed - 30pts deduction next season, 2 years of 10pt deduction, 75% cut in SPL revenue with the money being shared among other clubs.
isnt that a case of trying to have your cake and eat it?
isnt that a sign that the other clubs in the SPL are utterly terrified of the fact that if they lose the Rangers support from the league - that they will indeed die?

Call that sporting integrity? Because i sure as hell don't.

if they want us, then they have to be big enough to admit that.
If they don't then they relegate us.

None of this keeping us just enough alive so they can feed off the body - that's not what i call sporting integrity.

**** the SPL.

the realpigiron wrote: »

The big bad Rangers:pac:. Now that's a joke, more like the pathetic excuse for a football club that can't pay it's own way.

Must still have some power - you wouldnt be ranting and raving on here if they didnt.

the realpigiron

Eirebear wrote: »

Hate to tell you pal - but you're the one acting as if it's already happened.

Lets put it into perspective.
The SPL push through these measures that are proposed - 30pts deduction next season, 2 years of 10pt deduction, 75% cut in SPL revenue with the money being shared among other clubs.
isnt that a case of trying to have your cake and eat it?
isnt that a sign that the other clubs in the SPL are utterly terrified of the fact that if they lose the Rangers support from the league - that they will indeed die?

Call that sporting integrity? Because i sure as hell don't.

if they want us, then they have to be big enough to admit that.
If they don't then they relegate us.

None of this keeping us just enough alive so they can feed off the body - that's not what i call sporting integrity.

**** the SPL.

Well we'll agree on that. I do hope the other SPL clubs grow a pair and insist on a Rangers newco being relegated, because in my view anything less than that will devalue the game in Scotland as a whole. It also means what's to stop other clubs welching on their debts, setting up newcos, and taking their chances on a points deduction slap on the wrist.

Eirebear wrote: »

Must still have some power - you wouldnt be ranting and raving on here if they didnt.

Just want to see justice served pal. Integrity is still important to some of us, you know.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So facts are 'whataboutery' ?

Of course he doesn't like it when you tell him a fact in fact he often disappears when you do

Broxi_Bear_Eire

the realpigiron wrote: »

More whataboutery from Scotland's SHAME.

Do you really want to go down this route

the realpigiron

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Of course he doesn't like it when you tell him a fact in fact he often disappears when you do

I have no idea if it's a fact. I know it's deflecting from the point of what we had been discussing. It's whataboutery.

the realpigiron

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Do you really want to go down this route

What are you talking about now. More deflection.