The West Wing *Spoilers*

ShineOn7

Some people are chipping in on The West Wing subReddit, re: what to watch/skip in Season 5;

A few episodes are more one-offs and don't add much to the overall story - Slow News Day, An Khe, Access - I hate Talking Points and much of No Exit, but they lead into the Gaza arc. Maybe fast forward? Or read the summaries

And two stinkers that aren't Season 5

I will never watch the Cuba episode, or the CJ centric episode that deals with her dad ever again, and I’m okay with that.

I skipped that CJ episode ("The Long Goodbye", Season 4) myself on this re-watch. I believe the Cuba episode is "Ninety Miles Away" and is Season 6

voldejoie

My favourite show ever!

Are you guys streaming it online? I had it all on DVD but don't have access to a DVD player anymore.

Used to watch it on US netflix back in the days when I travelled for work haha but have been trying to stream or buy it digitally for a while to no avail.

ShineOn7

voldejoie wrote: »

My favourite show ever!

Are you guys streaming it online?

It's on the All 4 app for free ;-)

The fact a show that's over 20 years old is regularly on the first page of the TV subforum here says it all about the quality of it

voldejoie

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's on the All 4 app for free ;-)

The fact a show that's over 20 years old is regularly on the first page of the TV subforum here says it all about the quality of it

Incredible, thanks so much! Can't wait to start the rewatch. One of those shows for sure where I'm envious of anyone who is getting to watch it for the first time!

The Black Oil

It's on RTE player too.

Smacruairi

The Black Oil wrote: »

It's on RTE player too.

Ha ha rte player. Lol.

The Black Oil

Smacruairi wrote: »

Ha ha rte player. Lol.

I know it gets a lot of stick, not unreasonably. I watched 3 episodes of The Investigation yesterday without an issue.

Nijmegen

Running into the end zone now. Watching John Spencer's work knowing what you know is very poignant and special.

ShineOn7

This post on the West Wing sub Reddit gives a great guide for Season 5 when you don't want to watch it all on a re-watch

Must Watch: 7A WF 83429, The Dogs Of War, Shutdown, Abu el Banat, Eppur Si Muove, The Supremes, Gaza, Memorial Day

Maybe: Jefferson Lives, Disaster Relief, Separation of Powers, The Stormy Present, The Benign Prerogative, The Warfare of Genghis Khan, Full Disclosure

If I'm up to it: Han, Constituency of One, An Khe, Talking Points, No Exit

You can't make me: Slow News Day

I'm upto season 5 now and I watched the first couple of episodes upto when

Zoey is rescued from her kidnappers.

Then I skipped to Separation Of Powers which is decent and then you've the very strong Shutdown episode after. That's pretty much where I am now

ShineOn7

Some of these are gas



https://twitter.com/nocontxtww/status/1099736173289848833

ShineOn7

Finished my rewatch this week

What a wonderful, wonderful show

Season 7 was a lot stronger than I'd remembered

EverythingGood

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Finished my rewatch this week

What a wonderful, wonderful show

Season 7 was a lot stronger than I'd remembered

Season 5 is mostly weak, with a few good episodes, but yea, 6 is back to good and 7 is excellent - Arnie Vinnick & Matt Santos are excellent characters

knucklehead6

I see the box set is available for digital download on sky. €77.

I’m very tempted.

ShineOn7

knucklehead6 wrote: »

I see the box set is available for digital download on sky. €77.

I’m very tempted.

Its free on the excellent All 4 app

knucklehead6

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Its free on the excellent All 4 app

Ads every 30 seconds (slight exaggeration) wreck Mrs kh6’s head and il trying to get her into it

ShineOn7

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Ads every 30 seconds (slight exaggeration) wreck Mrs kh6’s head and il trying to get her into it

Big exaggeration actually ;-)

All 4 has about 5-6 mins Ads per West Wing episode. Sometimes only half that much

With RTE Player you're getting a lot, lot more

There's also an Ad free All 4 premium version for 3 euros a month

Tea For Two

Finished my rewatch of The West Wing. I think it could be the TV series that best stands the test of time. Good storylines and I even found myself admiring a few of CJ’s dresses (she could wear anything, tbh). If any WW fans are looking for an alternative, I can recommend Succession. Characters aren’t that likeable but it’s a great watch.

knucklehead6

knucklehead6 wrote: »

I see the box set is available for digital download on sky. €77.

I’m very tempted.

Tempted myself. Despite having owned the full boxset and could *cough* torrent it for free.

Its also on TG4 at the moment.

ShineOn7

Deleted User wrote: »

Tempted myself. Despite having owned the full boxset and could *cough* torrent it for free.

Its also on TG4 at the moment.

Honestly lads, the All 4 app is all you need

It's fantastic and probably deserves it's own thread

TheIrishGrover

EverythingGood wrote: »

Season 5 is mostly weak, with a few good episodes, but yea, 6 is back to good and 7 is excellent - Arnie Vinnick & Matt Santos are excellent characters

Have recently finished rewatching also. Yeah, season 5 was the low point . I never jelled with Will or Kate. They tried to make Will the next Sam but it didn't work so they made him more and more unlikeable and moany as he transitioned to Hoynes.

And Kate? Just too bland. But then how could she compare with Nancy? Couldn't see HER calling Fitz "Admiral Sissypants"

So I always remembered that I thought season 5 was the low point but I forgot how much that seeped into the start of season 6.

But by about 6 or 7 episodes into Season 6 it really found its feet again. Santos and Vinnick and their teams were great (As we all probably know, the initial plan was for Vinnick to win and the show to continue with him and his team. Sort of a reboot).

What I had forgotten was how little of The White House was in season 7. I remember it as being similar to season 6: One for Bartlett, one for Santos, one for Vinnick. But it's really not. Bartlett himself barely makes an appearance in season 7.

After that I did rewatch Studio 60 which was not NEARLY as good as I remember. Some quite startling aspects that would simply not pass today.

Mitch Connor

just finished another run through of it and the one thing i can't get over is how i didn't remember them being kinda poor in government.

Every season it seemed they had a 'Let Barlett be Bartlet' moment, that never actually resulted in anything.

I had always remembered Josh as a bit of a hero, but he's another that didn't really seem to accomplish much - without Hoynes getting caught again Santos doesn't win the primary and without the nuclear accident Santos doesn't win the election - and the show kinda made a point out of how he dropped the ball in various places costing Santos chances to get ahead or better numbers earlier.

Just found it bizarre that a lot of the people didn't have proper 'wins' off their own bat.

Am I just being weird?

killbillvol2

Mitch Connor wrote: »

just finished another run through of it and the one thing i can't get over is how i didn't remember them being kinda poor in government.

Every season it seemed they had a 'Let Barlett be Bartlet' moment, that never actually resulted in anything.

I had always remembered Josh as a bit of a hero, but he's another that didn't really seem to accomplish much - without Hoynes getting caught again Santos doesn't win the primary and without the nuclear accident Santos doesn't win the election - and the show kinda made a point out of how he dropped the ball in various places costing Santos chances to get ahead or better numbers earlier.

Just found it bizarre that a lot of the people didn't have proper 'wins' off their own bat.

Am I just being weird?

You're completely missing the point. They captured perfectly how difficult it is for a president to accomplish anything without the support of congress.

As to Josh and Santos, they absolutely nailed the second guessing and knife edge decisions that go into a campaign. Ask Hillary Clinton where she'd have spent the last week of her campaign with hindsight.

And the nuclear accident didn't decide the election. Vinnick still won California.

Mitch Connor

killbillvol2 wrote: »

You're completely missing the point. They captured perfectly how difficult it is for a president to accomplish anything without the support of congress.

As to Josh and Santos, they absolutely nailed the second guessing and knife edge decisions that go into a campaign. Ask Hillary Clinton where she'd have spent the last week of her campaign with hindsight.

And the nuclear accident didn't decide the election. Vinnick still won California.

I got it was difficult, but they never really got the wins - why have a bunch of 'lets go get it done' moments, that they never followed through on. never even confirmed if they got the FEC double appointments - think they did but even that wasn't really shown to a win if they got it.

Why have spencer come back in '365' and make a big deal out of the last year in office.... and not show us them accomplishing any of the things the listed on board when they were talking about it?

vinick was on course for a 50 state plan prior to the accident, got nowhere near that after and they pointed at the accident being a big reason people were swayed in states other than California. They also made a point of Josh making mistakes, prior to the last week. Josh admitted it himself. Josh was telling him to take the VP spot under Russell.

killbillvol2

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I got it was difficult, but they never really got the wins - why have a bunch of 'lets go get it done' moments, that they never followed through on. never even confirmed if they got the FEC double appointments - think they did but even that wasn't really shown to a win if they got it.

Why have spencer come back in '365' and make a big deal out of the last year in office.... and not show us them accomplishing any of the things the listed on board when they were talking about it?

vinick was on course for a 50 state plan prior to the accident, got nowhere near that after and they pointed at the accident being a big reason people were swayed in states other than California. They also made a point of Josh making mistakes, prior to the last week. Josh admitted it himself. Josh was telling him to take the VP spot under Russell.

You're still missing the point. No president gets anything done in the last year, two years even. The show would have been stupid had they suddenly achieved the impossible and everyone lived happily ever after. The aimed for s realistic look at the inherent challenges of government in the US.

You're missing the point on the Santos campaign too. All campaigns make huge mistakes and minor ones. The democrats completely ****ed up Hillary Clinton's campaign and Biden learned from the mistakes. Josh made mistakes, Santos made mistakes, they got some lucky breaks. That's every campaign. A mistake free campaign would have been boring and, unforgivably, unrealistic.

Nijmegen

I think it was difficult for them to show accomplishments beyond what an actual president was accomplishing at the time - which wasn't a whole lot even then. Barack Obama accomplished approximately one major thing during his presidency: Reform of healthcare. No small feat! He then saw his successor and state governments work hard to neuter elements of it. His other accomplishment, the successful navigation of the financial crisis, was largely dropped in his lap and many of the key decisions made by the time he got there.

Bush had his presidency eaten up by wars, but actually got a lot of "small" stuff done ala the Bartlet administration.

The Clinton administration likewise had lots of little wins and little losses over its span. Certainly no moonshots.

Getting anything done in America is just really, really hard. Biden is going gangbusters at it precisely because he has a window of opportunity and experience going to slow road. But that's the exception rather than the rule I think.

Mitch Connor

killbillvol2 wrote: »

You're still missing the point. No president gets anything done in the last year, two years even. The show would have been stupid had they suddenly achieved the impossible and everyone lived happily ever after. The aimed for s realistic look at the inherent challenges of government in the US.

You're missing the point on the Santos campaign too. All campaigns make huge mistakes and minor ones. The democrats completely ****ed up Hillary Clinton's campaign and Biden learned from the mistakes. Josh made mistakes, Santos made mistakes, they got some lucky breaks. That's every campaign. A mistake free campaign would have been boring and, unforgivably, unrealistic.

what was the moment Josh did something great that turned the campaign around? Its not that he made mistakes - its that we didn't see any big win come from a genius political move on his part.

Josh told him it was over. Josh had previously told him to take the VP spot. Josh told them he couldn't win.

Santos speach was at the convention that got him the bump was down to Santos, the speech at the church was down to santos. the speech on election day was down to santos.

Josh battled, and did his best, and his guy won, but what are the winning points of the campaign you would point to that were Josh? they were dead in New hampshire until Santos did his direct to tv ad - which was nothing to do with Josh.

and yeah, governing is hard, against a opposition congress, but I still find it hard to believe the administration had so few wins. and the big things Bartlet claimed he wanted they hardly even fought for. Even after Leo and Barlet had their argument about it - resulting in Let Barlet be bartlet - what actually happened? never mind not getting things through - what did they fight for? The goverment shut down was one occassion Barlett arguably beat the republicans - but their big college tax thing was put off to the following year and we never actually heard about it coming in.... so did they lose that one to?

killbillvol2

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what was the moment Josh did something great that turned the campaign around? Its not that he made mistakes - its that we didn't see any big win come from a genius political move on his part.

So just like a real campaign?

Mitch Connor wrote: »

and yeah, governing is hard, against a opposition congress, but I still find it hard to believe the administration had so few wins. and the big things Bartlet claimed he wanted they hardly even fought for. Even after Leo and Barlet had their argument about it - resulting in Let Barlet be bartlet - what actually happened? never mind not getting things through - what did they fight for? The goverment shut down was one occassion Barlett arguably beat the republicans - but their big college tax thing was put off to the following year and we never actually heard about it coming in.... so did they lose that one to?

So just like an actual presidency? The college tax thing died. Just like a lot of Obama's initiatives died. (Insert any president).

I was reading about Jimmy Carter yesterday who had ideas around climate change that were well ahead of their time. Guess what?

Mitch Connor

killbillvol2 wrote: »

So just like a real campaign?




So just like an actual presidency? The college tax thing died. Just like a lot of Obama's initiatives died. (Insert any president).

I was reading about Jimmy Carter yesterday who had ideas around climate change that were well ahead of their time. Guess what?

I just figured there'd be something... more. I figured theyd have had some better moments.

Mr.Nice Guy

I just finished watching The West Wing for the first time. I remember being told by a friend to watch this as I'd love it, and that was about 16 years ago. Well, it turned out I did love it. Some thoughts on each season:

Season 1 - Good introduction to the show and I warmed to most of the characters. The episode with Toby and the war veteran was a great one and I'm pleased Richard Schiff got an Emmy for it. Hell of a cliffhanger to end it on. Most annoying character for me was Lord John Marbury.

Season 2 - This was my favourite season and contains my favourite episode, the season finale 'Two Cathedrals'. One of the best episodes of TV I've seen and an outstanding performance from Martin Sheen. The ending to this gave me chills. I also really liked the episode where Josh has PTSD and needs to see the therapist. I was confused where Moira Kelly disappeared to and I would have liked an explanation. It's not the only time characters would just up and vanish with no reason given.

Season 3 - Ireland gets a mention in one episode but unfortunately Lord Marbury is involved. Good season but I didn't enjoy the concluding storyline involving Qumar, which let it down for me. CJ's agent getting shot was out of the blue and reminded me of something from The Wire.

Season 4 - A stronger season than the previous one I thought. I enjoyed the episode where CJ has to deal with her father going through Alzheimer's. I also enjoyed the way Will was introduced, although I later turned off him. I was sad to see Hoynes resign as VP as I liked the character. I was even sadder when Sam left and I wasn't aware that was going to be an almost permament departure. Crazy cliffhanger to end on with Zoe getting kidnapped. It did surprise me that Bartlet's re-election was dealt with in such a brief manner.

Season 5 - This was the season after Sorkin left the show. Some good episodes but a few duds. Really didn't like 'Access' where the cameras follow CJ around which is one of my least favourite episodes in general. A bit of a weak finale with the explosion in Gaza but I was curious to see what would happen to Donna. I tended to get the impression on this show that there wasn't enough sympathy for the Palestinians. I suppose that's accurate for the White House but still...

Season 6 - I enjoyed this season. This is the one where Bartlet tries to achieve peace between the Israelis and Palestinians. I found Leo so incredibly irritating in this storyline though. I loved Bartlet's 'Or what?' response when Leo tells him he has to commit to a bombing. I found a lot of the characters' attitude towards the Palestinians as being way OTT, particularly Will, and to some extent Toby. I loved the episode where Leo gets fired and I'm disapppointed the writers didn't have Leo die there. It would have summed up how politics can be a brutal business. CJ being named as Chief of Staff was a bit hard to believe. I liked the idea of Josh going off and starting a Presidential campaign and Alan Alda as Senator Vinick was a great addition to the show. Also got a kick out of seeing Bruno return.

Season 7 - Thumbs up for this season too as I thought the show went out in a strong way. I liked the Santos vs Vinick battle and must give credit to the writers because they made me sympathetic towards a Republican. Part of me thinks Vinick should have won as it would have created an interesting dynamic as the characters we've followed all these years worry that everything they worked for might be undone. Santos was okay but he was almost too nice. His wife seemed a more fleshed out character. I suppose, with John Spencer's passing, a Democrat loss would have been too much sadness for the season. I wasn't aware the actor had died so when Martin Sheen opened one of the episodes with that news I was shocked. It's sad what happened to Toby, and I read that Richard Schiff really hated the storyline as he believed Toby would never betray the President like that. I can see his point to be fair. It was good to see Sam return near the end. Josh and Donna getting together at the end was a nice touch. I thought the series finale was well done.

Overall, I thought it was a great viewing experience and I'm sad to be done with it. I've read some fans really hated the show after Sorkin left. Personally speaking, and I know I binge watched so there's less time to analyse each episode specifically, but only season 5 felt a noticeable drop off in quality to me. I would say 3 and 5 were my least favourite seasons. As mentioned above, 2 was my favourite.

lostcat

good summary, makes me want to do a rewatch now! 

Anyone seen the HBO 'theatre remake' of the 'Hartsfield landing' episode? I liked it a lot.

EverythingGood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119211#Comment_118119211

Where can i find/see that? Havent seen it yet

lostcat

As far as I can work out it's currently free to stream on HBO (US) by using a VPN or similar.

JTMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128397#Comment_118128397

All4

The Black Oil

These two, eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bswrux2wfXQ&ab_channel=Variety

CastorTroy

Biden must've been advised to follow Bartlett's example, but he took it too literally and started from the beginning.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0618/1305665-biden-bike/

Agent Coulson

I rewatched this over the last couple of months and man it is crazy how it's nearly more relevant and in touch now as it was 2 deacdes ago with issues from Roe vs Wade to immigration right to forefront today.

cuttingtimber22

Can a digital copy be bought anywhere? Have the DVDs but would like something in the cloud for keeps.

The Black Oil

John Amos is exceptional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN8U-TSbfwE

LambshankRedemption

Doing my bi-annual rewatch of The West Wing, I noticed the last 2 seasons are mirroring current world events.

Namely, there is concern that Leo McGarry is too old and not healthy enough to run as Vice President, there is significant trouble in Gaza and there are astronauts stuck up in space with no way of getting back to Earth.

Not sure why I started this thread, I just found it spooky.

The Black Oil

I'll merge this with the bigger thread.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122365514#Comment_122365514

The debate for the election is so good. Really shows how abysmal the state of politics are now

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122365701#Comment_122365701

Do you mean the Santos v Vinick debate?

Mitch Connor

The debate episode was also a live show, iirc - was shot and presented as if it was a real debate.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122366360#Comment_122366360

Correct.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122366151#Comment_122366151

Yes. One of the best episodes in the show imo. Vinick is a great character, Alda is fantastic The show gets criticized for being a liberal fantasy, but it also shows an idealized version of Republicans too.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122365514#Comment_122365514

I remember watching Hartsfield landing a few years ago with my nephew (In his 20s at the time). Toby and Josh on the train talking about Governor Richie coming out with inane comments and not questioning his advisors etc. My nephew goes "I've seen this episodes many times. Uh, when was this written?" Without saying anything more I suddenly went "Holy CR*P, They are talking about George Dubya"

I mean it was SCREAMINGLY obvious (Idiot candidate. Florida etc). It was almost not seeing the forest for the trees it was that obvious. I mean Santos and Nancy McNally etc had obvious parallels but, for the longest time, I didn't see Richie being Dubya (Durrrrr).

As for the post from a couple of years ago above about the summation of the series. I pretty much agree with that. Season 5 was definitely the poorest with season 2 probably the strongest. Really enjoyed Season 6 & 7 also but definitely found that the Santos storyline was more enjoyable as it went on. The characters in The West Wing itself kind of jumped the shark and I never warmed to Kate Harper or Will Bailey or found their romance convincing.

There was definitely more energy in the Santos storyline in S6 & S7 and of course the Vinnick team in S7 (It was very obvious that the plan was going to be for Santos to LOSE the election before it got cancelled)

I actually found Marbury to be not that bad. He was such a screaming out-of-date clichè that it was hard to be offended.

Remember Mandy? Now SHE was the most annoying

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122367951#Comment_122367951

But it did give us some great Josh bits.

Anyone but Mandy. Not Mandy.

She answer to Leo, and she answers to me.

god Mandy was such a pain in the hole!

I’m due a rewatch! Will leave it for the autumn I think!

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122368049#Comment_122368049

It was acknowledged that Mandy was annoying to the extent, that come season 2, they deleted her character and no-one went "Wheres Mandy?"

CastorTroy

But they created a whole town for her: Mandyville.

Wasn't the official reason that she was pretty much there for Josh but then they decided not to move forward with it?

Funny thing is that she also played fake Donna in Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me so she's not known for popular roles.