The West Wing *Spoilers*

tvnutz

The Black Oil wrote: »

Aren't we forgetting Leo's daughter, Mallory... :pac:

Fitz and Dr. Nancy McNally, too.

Re Toby, mega spoilers ahead for the later years.

the leak storyline, sigh...awful. Here's a question Richard Schiff took on it.

What were your thoughts on the direction the WW writers took with Toby? Would Sorkin's Toby have done the same thing?

RS: Never in ten billion years. Aaron actually wrote me an email when he heard what was being done to Toby and it pretty much broke his heart, as it did my spirit...

Ye they took such a great character in Toby and

p!ssed all over him with that storyline.

If I remember correctly he

wasn't even in the final episode.

KnifeWRENCH

My favourite ever supporting character - Lionel Tribbey! The cricket bat scene in Season 2 is fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t44eGxGBrNE

Such a shame he only got to appear in one episode. As far as I know, he was supposed to reappear in Season 3 but John Larroquette had other commitments so they had to introduce Oliver Babish as Tribbey's replacement.....oh and spoiler tags added just in case new people to TWW wouldn't wanna know that he's only in one episode!

TheGodBen

My earliest memory of The West Wing was seeing an ad for the season 2 finale on Channel 4 that involved that famous President guy in a soaking wet suit being asked at a press conference whether he was going to run for re-election.

I scoffed at it.

I scoffed partly because of how ridiculous it looked to have the US President appear at a press conference with water droplets running down his face, but I mainly scoffed at the very idea that they weren't going to have the main character run for re-election, as that would mean the end of the show. It came across as yet another cheesy American "drama" that was popular because it had some famous guy in it.

A couple of years later, I decided to give the show a chance (towards the end of season 4) and I enjoyed it so I got the first few seasons on DVD to see what I missed. Now, that scene at the end of Two Cathedrals is my favourite television scene of all time. I would even go so far as to call that scene transcendental. It's one of those moments where the writing, the directing, the acting, the lighting, the editing, and especially the music... everything is as close to perfect as can be. There are very few moments of television that can match it. (And a few of those are also in The West Wing. )

WesternNight

TheGodBen wrote: »

My earliest memory of The West Wing was seeing an ad for the season 2 finale on Channel 4 that involved that famous President guy in a soaking wet suit being asked at a press conference whether he was going to run for re-election.

I scoffed at it.

I scoffed partly because of how ridiculous it looked to have the US President appear at a press conference with water droplets running down his face, but I mainly scoffed at the very idea that they weren't going to have the main character run for re-election, as that would mean the end of the show. It came across as yet another cheesy American "drama" that was popular because it had some famous guy in it.

A couple of years later, I decided to give the show a chance (towards the end of season 4) and I enjoyed it so I got the first few seasons on DVD to see what I missed. Now, that scene at the end of Two Cathedrals is my favourite television scene of all time. I would even go so far as to call that scene transcendental. It's one of those moments where the writing, the directing, the acting, the lighting, the editing, and especially the music... everything is as close to perfect as can be. There are very few moments of television that can match it. (And a few of those are also in The West Wing. )

It really is all about the build-up and the context. It works because they didn't rush things like a lot of other shows seem to do. I've seen whole storylines packed into a couple of episodes and it rarely works, I find.

I think that's what I like about The Wire as well.

Einhard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnxQk8C_-kE

Brilliant show, brilliant parody!

Love this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD52OlkKfNs

bucks73

TheGodBen wrote: »

My earliest memory of The West Wing was seeing an ad for the season 2 finale on Channel 4 that involved that famous President guy in a soaking wet suit being asked at a press conference whether he was going to run for re-election.

I scoffed at it.

I scoffed partly because of how ridiculous it looked to have the US President appear at a press conference with water droplets running down his face, but I mainly scoffed at the very idea that they weren't going to have the main character run for re-election, as that would mean the end of the show. It came across as yet another cheesy American "drama" that was popular because it had some famous guy in it.

A couple of years later, I decided to give the show a chance (towards the end of season 4) and I enjoyed it so I got the first few seasons on DVD to see what I missed. Now, that scene at the end of Two Cathedrals is my favourite television scene of all time. I would even go so far as to call that scene transcendental. It's one of those moments where the writing, the directing, the acting, the lighting, the editing, and especially the music... everything is as close to perfect as can be. There are very few moments of television that can match it. (And a few of those are also in The West Wing. )

My favourite TV scene of all time too. Gripping stuff with probably the perfect song playing too.

Think it might be time for another rerun through the DVDs while there isnt much on during the Summer.

johnny_ultimate

I'm eight or nine episodes into Season Four now, and I think Joey Lucas may be the greatest supporting character in all of television. She needs more screentime!

I'm a bit bored of Leo. They should make Joey Chief of Staff :P

doomed

Fantastic series, great dialogue and one big (if somewhat dysfunctional) family of memorable characters. Politics as you would like it to be.

Then there is the way we do it here. Lets see how many funerals we can get in this weekend before phoning in to that reality TV show.

maudgonner

I'm going to see the president on Sunday:
http://www.galwayfilmfleadh.com/programme.php?ct=special-events&cid=13&t=an-afternoon-with-martin-sheen&id=61

Bet he's better craic than Obama too!

spank_inferno

maudgonner wrote: »

I'm going to see the president on Sunday:
http://www.galwayfilmfleadh.com/programme.php?ct=special-events&cid=13&t=an-afternoon-with-martin-sheen&id=61

Bet he's better craic than Obama too!

Bring this sign!

G_R

no no, you should bring this one:

pickarooney

I could never understand the appeal of this show. I forced myself to watch 4 episodes but it was dire. The dialogue is terribly fake and the show just seems to love itself so much.

Otacon

pickarooney wrote: »

I could never understand the appeal of this show. I forced myself to watch 4 episodes but it was dire. The dialogue is terribly fake and the show just seems to love itself so much.

Watch the first season. If you are not hooked by the end, I will be shocked.

Fair enough, people have differing opinions. But the quality of the writing and acting should remove any doubt that the show is 'fake'.

pickarooney

I'll probably not bother. I can't see myself ever warming to it.

Biggins

pickarooney wrote: »

I'll probably not bother. I can't see myself ever warming to it.

Thats fair enough - not everyone likes the same thing.
To be fair to it though, the writing gets exceptionally good more and more as lonf as Sorkin was at the helm.
...And I know your a fan of good writing. So for that alone, maybe you could concentrate on a few later episodes and see how sentence structure, dialogue and other aspects are brought into being and carried out.
(The show won a load of awards including for its writing)

ManwitaPlan

pickarooney wrote: »

I could never understand the appeal of this show. I forced myself to watch 4 episodes but it was dire. The dialogue is terribly fake and the show just seems to love itself so much.

Having an interest in American politics and good television I both the box set without seeing an episode...think I watched about 8 episodes and never bothered to watch anymore.

I find the dialogue incredibly fake and contrived...its like everything everybody says to each other is witty in a putdown sort of way and it just gets old. I never forgot I was watching a television show. At best the writing is unrealistic at worst it is reminiscent of a cheap daytime television show.

I realise Im going against the grain on this one but just could not see the appeal (and thats not even mentioning the over blown sentimentality, ridiculous idealism and annoying one sidedness of the show).

Martin Sheen is fantastic in it Ill say that but find the rest of the characters annoying.

pickarooney

ManwitaPlan wrote: »

I find the dialogue incredibly fake and contrived...its like everything everybody says to each other is witty in a putdown sort of way and it just gets old. I never forgot I was watching a television show.

Exactly. Studio 60 was the same but at least you could reconcile that with the fact the characters were supposed to be TV comedians and writers.

TheGodBen

It should be noted that when the series began it was considered something of a dramedy and the comedic angle was given more emphasis, probably because Aaron Sorkin's only other TV show was the comedy series Sports Night. Over the course of the first season the show transitioned into being more of a drama series and, though it was still present, the comedic element wasn't as intrusive.

I began rewatching the series earlier this year and I must admit that I found some of the early episodes obnoxious as they were trying too hard to be funny, the most noticeable of which was the scene where Bartlet was high on painkillers, which I found myself cringing through. But somewhere around the middle of the season it stopped being noticable, by the end of the season I was hooked again, and by the second season it really is something else.

mikemac

As I understand when it started Rob Lowe (Sam Seabourn) was supposed to be the main character, the show was meant to be about the staffers.

The President was only supposed to be a cameo actor, always in the background but rarely appearing.

That all changed.
Though Rob Lowe remained the highest paid actor due to his contract

cjmcork

cjmcork wrote: »

"No, you idiot - I'M JOEY LUCAS...............
I've got a very delicate system!!!"

aw man - started back watching this a few weeks back................Take this, the Sabbath day just came on..........oh happy day!

bnt

Yep - it kind of grew organically e.g. Donna was also a background character. I thought the character development was a good thing - it showed the writers were responsive to the cast and the audience. Note that Sorkin had also written the screenplay for The American President (Michael Douglas, Annette Bening ... and Martin Sheen), which was a major influence too.

I have many favourite moments - anyone for turkey? - but I suppose my least favourite episode has to be Isaac and Ishmael, the "special" they hastily wrote and shot after the 9/11 attacks. Too much of a historical stretch in its thesis.

I thought they could have done a spinoff series, since we last see Will Bailey (Josh Malina) as he's deciding to run for Congress: there's potential for comedy in the idea of an uptight White House staffer blowing in to hippie Oregon, trying to win over the locals. I'd call it The Oregon 4th.

We know he wins - he pops up as a Congressman in the "flash forward" at the start of Season 7.

drkpower

bnt wrote: »

I have many favourite moments, but I suppose my least favourite episode has to be Isaac and Ishmael, the "special" they hastily wrote and shot after the 9/11 attacks. Too much of a historical stretch in its thesis.

There has been a lot of criticism of that episode here. Perhaps deserved if you consider it as just an episode in a TV show.

However given it was hastily written and then consider the context of when it was aired, and i think it stands up quite well.

cjmcork

bnt wrote: »

Yep - it kind of grew organically e.g. Donna was also a background character. I thought the character development was a good thing - it showed the writers were responsive to the cast and the audience. Note that Sorkin had also written the screenplay for The American President (Michael Douglas, Annete Bening ... and Martin Sheen), which was a major influence too.

I have many favourite moments - anyone for turkey? - but I suppose my least favourite episode has to be Isaac and Ishmael, the "special" they hastily wrote and shot after the 9/11 attacks. Too much of a historical stretch in its thesis.

I thought they could have done a spinoff series, since we last see Will Bailey (Josh Malina) as he's deciding to run for Congress: there's potential for comedy in the idea of an uptight White House staffer blowing in to hippie Oregon, trying to win over the locals. I'd call it The Oregon 4th.

We know he wins - he pops up as a Congressman in the "flash forward" at the start of Season 7.

loving the Turkey clip! and who can forget the ButterBall hotline! Link

Dilynnio

4 episodes into season one and I am hooked!

VinLieger

Just got into season 4 today, forgot how good the 2 opening episodes are, hilarious with Josh, Toby and Donna rambling around and then the speech "ran into the fire" , and "I dont like mondays" being played in the background, another episode that gives me goosebumps whenever i watch it.

johnny_ultimate

mikemac wrote: »

That all changed.
Though Rob Lowe remained the highest paid actor due to his contract

Yeah, it's always strange when an episode opens with 'Rob Lowe' followed by the rest of the cast in alphabetical order :pac:

I like how balanced the show is with screen time for all the characters - there's no clear 'lead' and it comes across as a true ensemble as a result.

aidan_walsh

Note that Sorkin had also written the screenplay for The American President (Michael Douglas, Annete Bening ... and Martin Sheen), which was a major influence too.

Yeah, they reused the concept of the new President struggling with the idea of a

proportionate response

after

the shooting down of his army physician's plane

early in season 1 from that movie. Think it worked better in The West Wing.

cjmcork

2 points.........

1. Martin Sheen has an Irish passport, he should run for President!

2. The American President was on Friday night - A. Sorkin recycled some serious amount of material from the film throughout the series (Proportionate Response in particular), the ubiquitous Stackhouse is mentioned, the French president's name, Ellie in WW was Sydney's sister in the film, Nancy, Will Bailey, etc............

The Black Oil

Re season 6, anyone else find the scene between Jed and Leo

at Camp David, not long before Leo collapses, they have a heated argument.

My memory at the time was that it seemed quite awkward, a bit unWest Wing ish and not really keeping with the characters at all. Or, is my mind playing tricks on me here?

maudgonner

cjmcork wrote: »

2 points.........

1. Martin Sheen has an Irish passport, he should run for President!

2. The American President was on Friday night - A. Sorkin recycled some serious amount of material from the film throughout the series (Proportionate Response in particular), the ubiquitous Stackhouse is mentioned, the French president's name, Ellie in WW was Sydney's sister in the film, Nancy, Will Bailey, etc............

1. Yes! Where do I sign a petition to get him on the ballot?

2. Sorkin's shockin' for recycling material alright. If you watch the series he wrote just before The West Wing, Sports Night, you'll recognise a lot of things! (Sam/Josh == Dan/Casey, "the only thing you have to do to make me happy is come home at the end of the day", lots of the same actors, etc etc.) And there's a pretty good chance some of the same stuff will turn up again in his new series I'd say

Off to rewatch Sports Night now...

maudgonner

cjmcork wrote: »

2 points.........

1. Martin Sheen has an Irish passport, he should run for President!

Thread over on the politics forum talking about a Facebook campaign

Wouldn't it nearly be worth it for the gas? I mean, I know sending Dustin to the Eurovision didn't work out that great, but Martin Sheen actually would make a decent president. He's younger than Gay Byrne, has been politically active his whole life. OK, there may be a few issues with his arrest record and a wayward son, but hey, nobody's perfect?!

TheIrishGrover

cjmcork wrote: »

2 points.........

1. Martin Sheen has an Irish passport, he should run for President!

2. The American President was on Friday night - A. Sorkin recycled some serious amount of material from the film throughout the series (Proportionate Response in particular), the ubiquitous Stackhouse is mentioned, the French president's name, Ellie in WW was Sydney's sister in the film, Nancy, Will Bailey, etc............

Yeah, it is interesting to see the movie prototypes of the TV characters. Michael J Fox's highly strung character is obviously Josh, there's the tall female press secretary, the narky Toby-alike and Sheen himself as the best-friend-who'se-now-Chief-Of-Staff. It's actually weird seeing Sheen in the oval office (They also used the same set) NOT as the president. There's even an elderly Mrs Laningham type.

cjmcork

should have also stated that they even recycled 'coop' - the president's driver (same name in the film and the show!)............

just finishing up S4.............25 is some episode:)

trashcan

I'm a fan of the West Wing, but can't agree it's the best TV ever. For me that's The Wire. More realistic, equally, if not better, written and acted, and absolutely compelling. Also it's storytelling structure is absolutely unique in the history of TV. Bloody wonderful.

Soby

Sorry to recoup a old thread,But
1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojhg1zTOef8

2:There is some moment where Leo gets a marine guarding his door to come in and do a "trick" with his gun.Anyone able to find a video of it for at least the season/episode

Ill Follow the Sun

2:There is some moment where Leo gets a marine guarding his door to come in and do a "trick" with his gun.Anyone able to find a video of it for at least the season/episode

I couldn't find a video, but the episode is "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics" from season 1.

born2bwild

Just started watching season 2. Went through all of season 1 last week.

Good so far.

I don't really like the character Danny Colcannnon. I find the way he constantly says 'ok' grates on me terribly.

Otherwise it is a decent, solid show.

Biggins

Bored - might just start watching it again for the umpteenth time.
(Pure crap on on telly)

cjmcork

'good' - by the time you're finished this will change to 'great'!:D

Biggins

cjmcork wrote: »

'good' - by the time you're finished this will change to 'great'!:D

I agree, things really start kicking off mid season three.

cjmcork

Biggins, if you haven't seen it, try The Wire, I just finished it and it's well up there with TWW

Biggins

cjmcork wrote: »

Biggins, if you haven't seen it, try The Wire, I just finished it and it's well up there with TWW

O' I've seen the Wire a few times, as The Shield, The Corner and many other good boxsets, of which I have hundreds.

scrubber72

Met a few of the cast in Washington when they were filming the inauguration. Met alison janney Bradley whitford Richard schiff Martin sheen and dule hill. All the nicest you could meet and all give lots of time to the fans

NotorietyH

Just started watching this all over again myself for I think the 4th time now. Had lent boxsets to a friend who had never seen it and hearing her talk about episodes just made me want to watch it all over again. It's always been one of my favourite shows but I keep forgetting just how amazing it was.

It's a constant battle between The West Wing and The Wire for my favourite all time show, but I think The West Wing just shades it. There are some individual episodes of The West Wing that if they were counted as movies would break into my favourite all time movie list.

20 Hours in America parts 1 and 2 are possibly my favourite episodes of anything ever. Has everything I love about the show in it and I think the end of season 3 start of season 4 are when Sorkin was on top form.

born2bwild

Just watched the episode "17 People" from Season 2.

Excellently written and structured episode with tremendous acting, especially from yer man playing Toby. This was the first episode that has impressed me as much as, say, The Wire or Sopranos.

Was a bit iffy up 'til now but this was brilliant.

WesternNight

I have a week of holidays left. I think I may have to break out my boxset again

I'd love to meet Richard Schiff and discuss Toby and the West Wing in general with him. I think Toby is my favourite character in any TV show ever (aside from season 7 when the writers butchered him for no good reason).

cjmcork

W/N - I'm the same, week left, Might break out Studio 60, cos I'd do that in a week!

netopia

Have started to watch the West Wing for the first time over the last few weeks. I'm halfway through Season 5 at the moment and I'm starting to find it drifting a bit into more of the same.

While I have really enjoyed the characters and the storylines in general I just feel it lacks a certain something when it comes to seeing storylines through to their full completion. Sometimes it feels like the writers have gone all gung-ho into a storyline (or character) and then get bored with it and drop it without ever mentioning it again.

Just for me it leaves too many unanswered questions and this makes it slightly unsatisfactory. Bit of Chuck Cunningham Syndrome going on at times.

The Black Oil

Season 5 is a bit weak. We've John Wells to thank for that.

bnt

Hang in there - there are some very powerful episodes to come at the end of S5 and later, major changes to the characters and their situations.