The West Wing *Spoilers*

Raging_Ninja

Black Oil wrote: »

Season 5 is a bit weak. We've John Wells to thank for that.

I thought it was Sorkin's drug addiction. The man is a brilliant writer, but in fairness when he was fired he wasn't turning up to work, scripts were constantly late and the situation was getting worse.

Anyways, I have the boxset and it is for the most part awesome. Like many, not a fan of Isaac and Ishmael, nor of the first half of season 5, where the new writers were struggling to get to grips with the show. Things improve markedly by the end of that season though.

nkay1985

Balls on you all. Just reading a few pages of this has me wanting to re-watch again!

Wonder will I stop at season 5 or something this time. Probably not because, to be honest, it's still better than 95% of other tv when it's at it's worst.

born2bwild

On to season 3 now.

The concluding episode of season 2 - "Two Cathedrals" was superb.

I'm a decade out of step with everyone else but I'm interested in how this show was understood at the time of its first airing

The ratings of this show shot up for the third season (late 2001 - 2002).

Strange when you consider that the real world at that time bore more resemblance to fiction than fiction did itself.

Perhaps, since TV is reality for many people, viewers were tuning in to see a president who actually knew what he was doing.

netopia

I've made it safely through S5 and safely into S6. Yes it did pick up storywise (probably around E15). Certainly I wont be quitting now with only 37 episodes to go.

Some of you Aaron Sorkin fans might be interested in this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Newsroom_(U.S._TV_series)

Biggins

netopia wrote: »

Some of you Aaron Sorkin fans might be interested in this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Newsroom_(U.S._TV_series)

Heard about it and looking forwards to it - BIG time.
Some serious and good actors in it!

The Black Oil

OT, I've read the pilot script. Looking forward to it.

Re tWW, it's more addictive than crack. :pac:

sillo

You Get Hoynes!

Best drama ever.

Also (hope this is not against charter):

born2bwild

I've just begun season 6. The writing was just as good in season 5 as previously.
I don't buy the 'exit Sorkin equals sh1t show' line I've heard people say.
Excellent show.

jc84

born2bwild wrote: »

I've just begun season 6. The writing was just as good in season 5 as previously.
I don't buy the 'exit Sorkin equals sh1t show' line I've heard people say.
Excellent show.

me either, i do think they dragged out the

zoe kidnapping storyline a little in season 5

though, but season 6 is my favorite out of the whole series, it's season 7 that takes a turn for the worst, its good but so unlike what went before it doesn't feel like west wing, but the series finale was brilliant

TheIrishGrover

Like many people I thought that Season 5 was pretty poor (as others have said, especially the first half) However I thought that it picked up again in season 6 and I thought season 7 was great SPOILER (REALLY don't read it if you haven't watched Season 7!!!)

Especially the whole Josh/Santos/Vinnick thing. I actually was pretty bored by the whole actual White House episodes but I would imagine this was actually intentional as Bartlett was on his way out. I know they knew going into the season that it was probably their last but I still got the impression that they were really trying to get people behind Santos and Vinnick in the hope of garnering interest in another season (Vinnick was actually supposed to win but when John Spencer died they decided to leave Santos win as opposed to have him lose his VP partner and the entire election). If I had one complaint about TWW is that the republicans in it were, in general, real mustache-twirling baddies. All there were missing was a closeup of their eyes darting backwards and forwards while going MWUUHUUHUUHAAHAAHAA. Arnie Vinnick was a very likeable and interesting character.

don ramo

jc84 wrote: »

me either, i do think they dragged out the

zoe kidnapping storyline a little in season 5

though, but season 6 is my favorite out of the whole series, it's season 7 that takes a turn for the worst, its good but so unlike what went before it doesn't feel like west wing, but the series finale was brilliant

season 7 changed pace cause it was following

santos and vinnick on the trail more than what was happening in the white house, i thought it was a great season, showing how it works with presidential canidates having to be kept in the loop on current white house operations and what not, caue any problems that arise while there in the trail will affect them when they get into office,

weird though how i can never pick a favourite season in TWW, season 5 dropped a little in quality but didnt thread anywhere near bad,

great show,

The Black Oil

5 is easily the show's low point, though it still has a few strong moments, e.g., The Supremes, but the main thing was the shift from issues to personalities, the drift towards soap opera territory. Also, isn't there some scene where Josh and Toby

physically attack each other? Maybe it's in 6. That seemed way off to me, even if those two do get a bit worked up now and then, that confrontation smacked too much of John Wells' interference.

tvnutz

Since this thread is a bit old,there is the possibility I have already posted this in this thread,but they completely fucked around with the character of Toby. One of the best characters, it was a disgrace,

neemish

Agreed. Was a Toby fan from day one, but they ruined him in Season 7. One of the most complex characters just gone

mikemac1

Josh Lyman was deputy chief of staff
And got passed over by

the press secretary. Not some top diplomat or military expert, just the press secretary

Now if that were me or if it ever happened in real life, I'd expect the deputy to resign in disgust :P

neemish

lol. And nobody batted an eyelid.

More a miracle that Josh never got fired in the seven years..

"You're changing parties 'cos of me"?

"not cos of you, but you made it a whole lot easier"

ProudDUB

If memory serves Josh was passed over for a reason. If he got the gig, it would have been a well deserved feather in his cap. But he would have been a lame duck Chief of Staff in an administration that was entering its last days. There would be only so much that he could do. His participation in affairs of state would have ended as soon as the new administration came in, as they would have all their own staffers in place ready to kick it into gear when when they took over.

By leaving when he did, Josh was free'd up to be the main man in selecting, grooming and then getting elected President Barlett's successor. That puts Josh right back in the thick of things again. It also makes sure that the values that Prez Bartlett stood for survive thru another administration.

It was really was a wonderful TV series. Considering its success and accolades, I am surprised that so few shows like it have followed in its foot steps. Considering how many shows out there that are there are set in hospitals, law firms and various law enforcement agencies etc etc you'd think that there would be a market for intelligent shows like this set in the upper echelons of the political arena. Oh well....

cjmcork

neemish wrote: »

lol. And nobody batted an eyelid.

More a miracle that Josh never got fired in the seven years..

"You're changing parties 'cos of me"?

"not cos of you, but you made it a whole lot easier"

Lady, the god you pray to is too busy being indicted for tax fraud

mikemac1

ProudDUB wrote: »

By leaving when he did, Josh was free'd up to be the main man in selecting, grooming and then getting elected President Barlett's successor. That puts Josh right back in the thick of things again. It also makes sure that the values that Prez Bartlett stood for survive thru another administration.

If that was the plan it was a huge gamble

The candidate he backed was a nobody, a longshot and

almost shut down the campaign when they ran out of money

Worked but

I couldn't call that a clever plan

ProudDUB

That's true. But back when President Bartlett entered the fray, he was a considered a long shot too. Life long academic, one time governor of one of the smallest and least populous states in the Union. The odds of him being the last man standing weren't good for him either. I guess that is what they are trying to get across. His noble band of boy scouts would rather bust a nut getting someone elected that they admired, respected, believed in etc etc even if he had a small chance of getting elected, than they would some slick operator who looked the part, said all the right things, but didn't really stand for anything.

My fav ep was the 2 hour one that dealt with how everyone came to work for him in the first place, via flashbacks. I'll never forget going from the shock and horror of

the shooting

to going straight to

CJ pitching a movie to a Hollywood studio, getting fired, coming home and falling in her pool.

I have rarely had such a WTF TV moment before !

ProudDUB

Sorry. double post.

ProudDUB

Apologies again. My browser is being a brat tonight.

johnny_ultimate

The episode(s) preceding the

naming of CJ as new Chief of Staff

was all about why it couldn't have been the others. Still think it was a leap of logic though. I guess when you look at the characters it does make a strange sort of sense, but one of the harder jumps to buy into.

As for Toby's storyline in Season 7, it was a damn shame. If I'm recalling correctly he

wasn't even in the final episode,

which was just bizarre.

sillo

I'm pretty sure they left him out of the final episode -

there was the whole thing about whether bartlet would pardon him or not

.

TWW might be my all time favourite tv show; it's certainly up there. But it's hard to refute the missteps it made late in the series -

The demise of Toby

was a waste and I agree with the general consensus that

CJ being made chief of staff made no sense whatsoever

.

sillo

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I guess when you look at the characters it does make a strange sort of sense, but one of the harder jumps to buy into.

Have to disagree here! I don't see how it made sense at all.

More than anything Leo was a warhorse who did what was right for the administration and the man. A sentimental decision to promote CJ didn't sit with me at all. It felt like Leo giving up, and I can't imagine anything less in his character!

Oh well, at least it wasn't Mandy.

johnny_ultimate

I think all the characters went on strange arcs once Sorkin left. It's why I hated Season 5 so much (bar a couple of very strong standalone episodes - The Supremes is one of the greatest of the whole show) - it just seemed as if they were making up crap no matter how little it fitted with the characters they'd spend almost a hundred episodes focusing on. I never really liked Donna as a character, for example, but I despised the direction the writers chose to take her in. I generally agree about the

CJ promotion

- as said, I didn't buy it - but without having brought in an entirely new character I can't think of many other ways they could have gotten around it.

The 'new blood' introduced in six and seven made all the difference. Indeed, there's certainly the argument that the actual 'West Wing' segments are an afterthought there. It's almost an entirely new show during the

Vinick / Santos

years, with Josh possibly the only regular character enjoying a huge amount of character work.

sillo

I know it's a little OT for this thread but what did you make of Studio 60 johnny? While it got roundly panned by critics I thought it really found its voice near the end and I was sad to see it go.

Hopefully his new creation can fare better.

johnny_ultimate

Have yet to get around to Studio 60. Or Sports Night actually!

He may have had mixed success since TWW, but he is responsible for perhaps the greatest Hollywood script of the last five years with The Social Network (and I believe Moneyball is great too). The West Wing + TSN is certainly a nice CV

nkay1985

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Have yet to get around to Studio 60. Or Sports Night actually!

He may have had mixed success since TWW, but he is responsible for perhaps the greatest Hollywood script of the last five years with The Social Network (and I believe Moneyball is great too). The West Wing + TSN is certainly a nice CV

I really enjoyed Studio 60 and thought there was enough in it to warrant a run but the studio execs didn't!

mikemac1

Tried Sports Night, only saw a few episodes

It was ok, the actor who played Will Bailey in the TWW was very good, quite funny

NotorietyH

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Have yet to get around to Studio 60. Or Sports Night actually!

Sports Night is on the US Netflix if you have access to it.

Ellian

NotorietyH wrote: »

Sports Night is on the US Netflix if you have access to it.

I'd also stick with it past the first few episodes when they have the laugh track. Apparantly execs ere not confident about the humour and insisted on a LT. Eventually it got phased out. The main love story annoyed the hell out of me but Sorkin's workplace banter was usually fairly easy on the ears.

NotorietyH

Ellian wrote: »

I'd also stick with it past the first few episodes when they have the laugh track. Apparantly execs ere not confident about the humour and insisted on a LT. Eventually it got phased out. The main love story annoyed the hell out of me but Sorkin's workplace banter was usually fairly easy on the ears.

Yeah I watched the first episode last night and the laugh track really put me off. Glad to hear it's phased out after a few episodes! Was making it very tough to watch. Will give it another go now.

stevemac

on season 5 now, being going through the others ince november. about ep 6 or 7 I think. bloddy hell its bad compared to first four series. The characters are all like there stressed out and are at each other throats all the time. Tough watch going straight from four to this.

ambid

stevemac wrote: »

on season 5 now, being going through the others ince november. about ep 6 or 7 I think. bloddy hell its bad compared to first four series. The characters are all like there stressed out and are at each other throats all the time. Tough watch going straight from four to this.

Yeah the first half of season 5 is particularly bad, but there are a couple of excellent episodes in that season (especially "The Supremes"). It got better again in seasons 6 and 7, but never quite recovered to the standard of seasons 1-4.

I'm re-watching it again and although I'm only on season 3, I'm dreading getting to the end of season 4.

jc84

ambid wrote: »

Yeah the first half of season 5 is particularly bad, but there are a couple of excellent episodes in that season (especially "The Supremes"). It got better again in seasons 6 and 7, but never quite recovered to the standard of seasons 1-4.

I'm re-watching it again and although I'm only on season 3, I'm dreading getting to the end of season 4.

the finale of season 4 was incredible, so intense and exciting, then season 5 began and it was the complete opposite, so boring and dragged out, they felt like the 2 longest episodes ever

cjmcork

I really enjoyed s60 also - pity they couldn't have been picked up for another season

I find s1 brilliant, but HATE mandy in a way that I rarely hate a tv character that they ruin a show for me, but I have to push through it!

Apolloyon

I decided to rewatch the West Wing a few weeks ago. Up to recently I only had the first season on DVD but had watched the series on tv from Season 3 onwards. I got Seasons 2 and 3 on DVD at Christmas. So I'm going to buy the rest now!

It had been awhile since I had watched Season 1 so I was worried when I found the frist three episodes a bit weak. Had I built the West Wing up in mind? Was it all just nostalgia? But then it all started coming together. It's as if Sorkin realised that certain things worked and others didn't. The humour remained but the overly comical elements were phased out.

It does make me sad though to know that it was in many ways a one of a kind series. We'll never get a show that gave us such an insightful look into the American political mind. And more's the pity I say!

I start Season 2 this week!

bnt

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

As for Toby's storyline in Season 7, it was a damn shame. If I'm recalling correctly he

wasn't even in the final episode,

which was just bizarre.

But don't forget that we do know what happened to Toby afterwards, so he didn't really need to be shown at that point.

He turned up in the "flash-forward" to the opening of the Bartlett Presidential Library, three years later (S7 E1). He was doing something at Columbia University - lecturing, presumably.

.

Otacon

bnt wrote: »

But don't forget that we do know what happened to Toby afterwards, so he didn't really need to be shown at that point.

He turned up in the "flash-forward" to the opening of the Bartlett Presidential Library, three years later (S7 E1). He was doing something at Columbia University - lecturing, presumably.

.

Was that flash-forward shown when the series first aired or was it inserted after for the DVD? I didn't remember it when I originally watched the show but I could be wrong.

aidan_walsh

Otacon wrote: »

Was that flash-forward shown when the series first aired or was it inserted after for the DVD? I didn't remember it when I originally watched the show but I could be wrong.

Shown during airing as well.

born2bwild

Well, finished season 7. Great series; sorry it's finished. It's a pity they never carried on with the new president. The characters were likable enough.

Ludo

Bought new media player last week to replace old one...tested it by playing first episode of west wing...bloody hooked on it again now and been watching it constantly all week...must be the 5th time around at least now....hate this damn program

Green Diesel

Finally got around to watching this, into season 3 so far. Quite a good series, sentimentality can get a bit much at times but good dialogue carries it.

My only issue with it, and it really annoys me, is the end credits music. Drives me crazy having an emotional or somber ending with a fade to black and then that cheerful tune kicks in ! Drives me mad !

Skinfull

I love this show. The writing and acting are immense, special mentions for Bradley Whitford while listening to YoYo Ma on the chello, Bartlett in the church giving out in latin to the cross

(after Mrs Cunningham dies )

and everything Alison Janney does!

But what makes me love this more, or shoudl I say Sorkin more is the joy of the new show "Newsroom" coming out soon where he wont just be writing left wing liberal tirades, but jumping to the other side of the fence and voicing a republican! no, Alan Alda didnt count, he was too soft! :rolleyes:

Oh and I cant recommend Studio 60 enough! Whitford and Perry are brilliant together! MOAR!!!

Arni

I'm on my third time around now. I skipped the last two seasons on the second round but plan to go all the way this time. Too bad they can't afford to make shows like this anymore.

Lol to Green Diesel and the closing music--the same thing occurred to me although it doesn't really irritate me. I love all the scoring in general.

Ludo

IT IS BACK...NEW WEST WING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/01/the-west-wing-reunion-walk-and-talk_n_1467267.html

Skinfull

For a second I thought you were posting a video from VEEP. That's class... also this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnxQk8C_-kE

And... is anyone else getting a hanker to watch West Wing again after watching Bradley Whitford in "Cabin in the Woods"?

TheIrishGrover

Skinfull wrote: »

For a second I thought you were posting a video from VEEP. That's class... also this...

And... is anyone else getting a hanker to watch West Wing again after watching Bradley Whitford in "Cabin in the Woods"?

Is that Veep any good? I really can't stand yer wan from Seinfeld though.

Skinfull

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Is that Veep any good? I really can't stand yer wan from Seinfeld though.

I said that very same thing last week when my buddy was talking about it. But I've since watched the two eps and its really good. Very parks and Rec and has WW elements in it too.

Very cringe-y though so if you cant watch the cringe TV then you wont like it. Oh and NONE of the trailers, previews or TV spots do it justice. Take the leap and watch the first ep. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Aaaaaaaannnnnd to get back on topic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQsvcs9IB8A