Mature students

GSI

my brother currently does a computer coarse and he says that 90% of the students are mature. He also says that the majority get grants. I'm hopefully going to college next year and like my brother I won't get a grant.

It pisses me off that these mature students are taking college places from younger people and sending the points up while spongiing off the state. I am well aware why they are going back to college, more than likely due to the current jobs situation in the country. But I believe that they have already had their opportunity. It is a record year for cao applicants due to the mature students apparently aswell.

I am well aware that this maybe a bit controversial. Am I been harsh, should they be allowed another opportunity?

LilMissCiara

Afaik only a certain amount of spaces are reserved for mature students, and some for people with disabilities (DARE system I think). The rest of the spaces are for us! We don't have to compete with anybody but our own good-selves.!

GSI

LilMissCiara wrote: »

Afaik only a certain amount of spaces are reserved for mature students, and some for people with disabilities (DARE system I think). The rest of the spaces are for us! We don't have to compete with anybody but our own good-selves.!

I hope that's true. It's just what my brother said worried me, ya know.

Irishchick

This thread shows why they do it. Leaving certs are just too immature to be in college sometimes! Grow up.

Leaving certs get grants too so are they sponging? The drop out rate for mature students is much less and they tend to be more dedicated on the whole. Ive heard this personally from a university president.

LilMissCiara

GSI wrote: »

I hope that's true. It's just what my brother said worried me, ya know.

Assuming it's a degree course, 90% is quite a number though.. But either he's greatly exaggerating or the course isn't in high demand..!

GSI

Irishchick wrote: »

This thread shows why they do it. Leaving certs are just too immature to be in college sometimes! Grow up.

Leaving certs get grants too so are they sponging? The drop out rate for mature students is much less and they tend to be more dedicated on the whole. Ive heard this personally from a university president.

Are you by any chance a mature student? Dont tell me to grow up btw. I was looking for opinions, views and a reasonable dicusiion on the topic in hand. Not to be insulted.

MacGyver

Thats correct, there are a certain number of spaces for mature students. The only thing to be worried about is how much better the mature student will do then most of the younger people there.

Most of the mature students ive seen never had the change to go to college in the first place so they put the effort in now unlike younger students who turn up late if at all and dont even try to get high grades.

GSI

MacGyver wrote: »

Thats correct, there are a certain number of spaces for mature students. The only thing to be worried about is how much better the mature student will do then most of the younger people there.

Most of the mature students ive seen never had the change to go to college in the first place so they put the effort in now unlike younger students who turn up late if at all and dont even try to get high grades.

Well that's eased my worries. Yeah I can see tha latter point been true about younger people not putting the effort in

Irishchick

MacGyver wrote: »

Thats correct, there are a certain number of spaces for mature students. The only thing to be worried about is how much better the mature student will do then most of the younger people there.

Most of the mature students ive seen never had the change to go to college in the first place so they put the effort in now unlike younger students who turn up late if at all and dont even try to get high grades.

exactly.

I was looking for opinions, views and a reasonable dicusiion on the topic in hand. Not to be insulted.

Oh so its ok for you to insult mature students but you cant take it yourself eh??

GSI

Irishchick wrote: »

exactly.



Oh so its ok for you to insult mature students but you cant take it yourself eh??

^look everyone apart from you has offered a reasonable discussion In my thread. It is obvious, seen as you ignored my question, you are a mature student and have some kind of grudge against young students.

I am of the opinion that older people have already had their chance and I am entitled to that. Just because you haven't the ability to respect that opinion shows your ignorance.

I am glad to hear/Learn,however, that there are a certain number of places available to mature students.

limericklad87

GSI wrote: »

It pisses me off that these mature students are taking college places from younger people and sending the points up while spongiing off the state.

Unless you are paying for your fees in total, not just your registration fees other people may say that some students are 'sponging off the state' as in the state pays your college fee, couple of grand a year, as far as i know. ( open to correction)

I'm totally against the possible reintroduction of fees, if fees were around when i did my LC i wouldn't have been able to go to college. Like you i didn't get a grant, not even a cent and while in college i watched those who got a grant spend it every tues and thurs night while out
.

But I believe that they have already had their opportunity

How do you know this?

should they be allowed another opportunity?

I would say that the majority of mature students in the last 3 years are going back due to jobs shortage but they are some who have not been to college before and didn't get that opportunity and thus deserve it now. They are hardly going back to sponge off the state. Places are limited to mature students and if there is more than them applying this year they have just as much competition for spaces

Ps: best of luck with the CAO and i hope you get your college course

Irishchick

seen as you ignored my question, you are a mature student and have some kind of grudge against young students.

I have nothing against younger students. I barley qualify as a mature student. However I do have something against people who accuse them of sponging.

I am of the opinion that older people have already had their chance

This shows how ignorant you are. Most of them havent had their chance as when they were young they did not have the means to attend college.

Larianne

GSI wrote: »

my brother currently does a computer coarse and he says that 90% of the students are mature. He also says that the majority get grants. I'm hopefully going to college next year and like my brother I won't get a grant.

It pisses me off that these mature students are taking college places from younger people and sending the points up while spongiing off the state. I am well aware why they are going back to college, more than likely due to the current jobs situation in the country. But I believe that they have already had their opportunity. It is a record year for cao applicants due to the mature students apparently aswell.

I am well aware that this maybe a bit controversial. Am I been harsh, should they be allowed another opportunity?

I'm a mature student myself. I'd just like to put you straight on some of the comments you have made.

Mature students don't take places away from students. There are a number of places set aside for mature students. So they are not putting the points up at all. That would be caused leaving cert students who study hard putting the points up. These could be first time leaving cert students, repeat leaving cert students or older/mature applicants who have decided to sit their leaving cert.

I don't sponge off the state. I moved home because it was the only way I could afford to go to college. I'm not entitled to a grant because of this. Granted other mature students are, along with other Leaving Certificate students entitled to a grant if they qualify. That's not to say they are sponging off the state.

I'd just like to state also that it's a tough process applying as a mature student. Not only that, it's a tough decision for some, especially those who have families or are worried about their age and returning to education. A lot of mature students never had the opportunity to go to college in the first place so, yes I believe your opening post to be harsh and misinformed.

Can I ask you what you mean by people having their chance? I didn't apply before for a degree programme? Am I still entitled to the place I got? Or did applying at 26 years of age deem me too old?

Mature students who have already completely a degree usually don't get any financial support. The other two mature students in my class who hold degrees have to support themselves and pay €8,000 a year.

You might want to look at the drop out rate among first years in college. You could say that it is these people are in fact the ones that are taking away college places from others as they don't finish the course that someone else desperately want to do. Six people dropped out of my course in first year. None were mature students.

So these students who have dropped out after first year, would you say they have had their chance at education? Tough luck to them?

GSI

Larianne wrote: »

I'm a mature student myself. I'd just like to put you straight on some of the comments you have made.

Mature students don't take places away from students. There are a number of places set aside for mature students. So they are not putting the points up at all. That would be caused leaving cert students who study hard putting the points up. These could be first time leaving cert students, repeat leaving cert students or older/mature applicants who have decided to sit their leaving cert.

This point has already been made in this thread and I am now aware of this and I am glad to hear it.

Larianne wrote: »

I don't sponge off the state. I moved home because it was the only way I could afford to go to college. I'm not entitled to a grant because of this. Granted other mature students are, along with other Leaving Certificate students entitled to a grant if they qualify. That's not to say they are sponging off the state.

Maybe my statement "sponging off the state" my have been harsh. maybe I should have worded it better.

Larianne wrote: »

I'd just like to state also that it's a tough process applying as a mature student. Not only that, it's a tough decision for some, especially those who have families or are worried about their age and returning to education. A lot of mature students never had the opportunity to go to college in the first place so, yes I believe your opening post to be harsh and misinformed. .

My gripe with many of mature students is when they graduate they have more of a chance of getting the job than the younger person as they will be seen as more mature and experienced.

Larianne wrote: »

Can I ask you what you mean by people having their chance? I didn't apply before for a degree programme? Am I still entitled to the place I got? Or did applying at 26 years of age deem me too old?

It depends...Did you have the opportunity to go to college when you finished your leaving cert? If you did I find it hard to feel sorry for you tbh.

Larianne wrote: »

Mature students who have already completely a degree usually don't get any financial support. The other two mature students in my class who hold degrees have to support themselves and pay €8,000 a year.

the same for many younger students isn't it?

Larianne wrote: »

You might want to look at the drop out rate among first years in college. You could say that it is these people are in fact the ones that are taking away college places from others as they don't finish the course that someone else desperately want to do. Six people dropped out of my course in first year. None were mature students.

Yes I am aware that some younger students maybe timewasters. Like limerick lad said. Some get the grant, drink it or drop out. I sure many mature students are timewasters aswell. just because you haven't experienced them been. Thats not to say they aren't

Larianne wrote: »

So these students who have dropped out after first year, would you say they have had their chance at education? Tough luck to them?

depends on their circumstances.


I said at the start of this thread this topic maybe be a bit controversial. I never intended to be a WUM. If that is what anyone is thinking. I am looking for some opinions on this and so far I am receiving some genuine replies. The exception been Irish chick.

muff03

I've just finished a 4 year Honours Bachelor in Electrical Engineering in CIT. I actually started in 2nd year, as being an electrician, the 1st year of the course is skipped. 40 students started out in 1st year in my group straight from the leaving cert. 20 of us electricians joined in 2nd year, while 20 of the 1st years dropped out or repeated. By the 4th year, 20 of the 40 students starting second year remained, with 4 being from the 1st year group. That's a 90% drop out rate, and the only reason the course ran the 4 years is because of the mature students, most of which received €0.00 from the grants office.

I understand that you're worrying, but as was previously said, before a single CAO position is offered on a course, a figure already exists for mature students allocations. Hopefully you aren't part of the 90%. Hopefully you'll do well enough in the leaving that you'll get straight into whatever course it is you apply for. Hopefully you won't lose your job later on, or find yourself in a position where you can either go to college and live on nothing for a few years while paying a mortgage and feeding your kids, or sit on your arse and do nothing.

Either way, grow up.

randylonghorn

*templock until I can review this properly*

randylonghorn

Ok, I'm leaving this closed.

Not because I'm declaring a blanket ban on the broad topic, but because I think the thread got off to a bad start and went downhill from there, and I haven't the patience or energy to push it all the way back up again!



A few basic points:

- Most mature students are not competing with LC / CAO applicants for places, there are quotas and a separate application process.

- I *suspect* from the description of the course mentioned in the first post that it may be one of the courses approved under the LMAI / Springboard initiatives for training / re-training of mature students; the percentage of mature students and the fact that most seem to be funded would suggest that (also the course topic, to an extent). These courses are either separately funded, or places on under-subscribed courses are funded ... in either case, they don't really impact on places available through CAO.

- Most mature students were working and paying taxes during the boom years, and their taxes (as well as the taxes of the parents of those in this forum) were helping to support the current LCs in school, and paying for new buildings and facilities in third-level institutions, etc.

- Surely it is a very positive thing that mature students are anxious to upgrade their qualifications and employability, rather than sitting happily at home on the dole? Now that *would* be sponging!

- While most people have traditionally gone to college at 17 / 18, this doesn't make it some magic number, or mean that those of this age have superior rights to places at third level.

- On the other hand, while I have sympathy with the mature students who have expressed frustration in this thread, the word "mature" should imply more than age. Telling someone to "grow up" is neither courteous nor likely to encourage reasonable and civil discussion of a topic.