Minimum amount accepted by shop with debit transaction

fritzelly

Dj320 wrote: »

If it happens then we just don’t accept card payment for under €5, just leave the goods there, you simply cannot sell a newspaper, bread etc and take a card payment, it will cost us money to sell it

That's what the law says - no surcharges but you can have a minimum spend IIRC
But as pointed out earlier for most businesses you are saving money by taking cards - do you sell penny sweets?

Dj320

Time wrote: »

Can't pay all suppliers in cash unfortunately.

Pay most of them , the rest lodge to your personal account and transfer it online to you business account, no bank fees for personal banking

368100

Dj320 wrote: »

If it happens then we just don’t accept card payment for under €5, just leave the goods there, you simply cannot sell a newspaper, bread etc and take a card payment, it will cost us money to sell it

Thats the way around it alright. I assume given your turnover you've got a negotiated rate for card payments from your merchant services?

fritzelly

Dj320 wrote: »

Pay most of them , the rest lodge to your personal account and transfer it online to you business account, no bank fees for personal banking

Going down a dangerous road there explaining to the tax man where is the money going and where is this money coming from.

Dj320

fritzelly wrote: »

That's what the law says - no surcharges but you can have a minimum spend IIRC
But as pointed out earlier for most businesses you are saving money by taking cards - do you sell penny sweets?

No I’m not saving money by accepting cards, I’d take cash all day, I don’t lodge cash, ever

WoolyJumper

I very rarely carry cash anymore. Using contactless is much faster and more convenient. And I've often paid for things like chewing gum with contactless. I do get annoyed if I'm I told there is a minimum spend. Especially is its a shop in a city or town.

Recently went to a new chipper that opened. Spend over 5 euro and when I went to pay with card was given a look followed by a sigh and told there was a minimum spend but "I'll let you off this time" Like they were doing me a massive favour. Probably won't go back there after that. Mainly because I'd have to get cash out just to go there, but there is a chipper close to the cash machine which has no minimum spend for card payments so I'd just save all the hassle and go to that one but also because the guys attitude around it annoyed me. Its 2018. It's not a rare thing for people to pay with card these days and most shops/restaurants don't have minimum spends in towns and cities so don't act annoyed with me when its you that is being really inconvenient.

Dj320

fritzelly wrote: »

Going down a dangerous road there explaining to the tax man where is the money going and where is this money coming from.

How so, you transfer the exact money everyday , it’s all on online banking for them to see, noting to hide

368100

Dj320 wrote: »

Pay most of them , the rest lodge to your personal account and transfer it online to you business account, no bank fees for personal banking

Bank will cop that very soon....and probably issue notice to close the personal account...at least the ones ive worked for would look out for that.

Dj320

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I very rarely carry cash anymore. Using contactless is much faster and more convenient. And I've often paid for things like chewing gum with contactless. I do get annoyed if I'm I told there is a minimum spend. Especially is its a shop in a city or town.

Recently went to a new chipper that opened. Spend over 5 euro and when I went to pay with card was given a look followed by a sigh and told there was a minimum spend but "I'll let you off this time" Like they were doing me a massive favour. Probably won't go back there after that. Mainly because I'd have to get cash out just to go there, but there is a chipper close to the cash machine which has no minimum spend for card payments so I'd just save all the hassle and go to that one but also because the guys attitude around it annoyed me. Its 2018. It's not a rare thing for people to pay with card these days and most shops/restaurants don't have minimum spends in towns and cities so don't act annoyed with me when its you that is being really inconvenient.

How on earth do you think a shop makes money on selling you chewing gum for 75c and paying by card at 14c for contactless

368100

Dj320 wrote: »

How on earth do you think a shop makes money on selling you chewing gum for 75c and paying by card at 14c for contactless

Thats mental....i think you need to negotiate a deal with your merchant service

fritzelly

Dj320 wrote: »

How on earth do you think a shop makes money on selling you chewing gum for 75c and paying by card at 14c for contactless

If you're paying 14c your doing it wrong especially if your card charges are to be believed you should be on a very good rate.

Dj320

368100 wrote: »

Thats mental....i think you need to negotiate a deal with your merchant service

That’s it there is no negotiation with them , people don’t realize this, and I’ll guarantee when it does go to the stage of cashless society the bank will start charging the customers too as they know we have no other choice, there is noting for noting from a bank

Dj320

fritzelly wrote: »

If you're paying 14c your doing it wrong especially if your card charges are to be believed you should be on a very good rate.

Explain to me how then so, take into consideration not everyone taps, business cards(higher rates) , also the rate of % charged on the amount

fritzelly

Nothing to do with just contactless - all debit cards are only 0.1% plus your gateway and bank charges, already pointed out earlier the typical charges. Business cards are a different story

368100

Dj320 wrote: »

That’s it there is no negotiation with them , people don’t realize this, and I’ll guarantee when it does go to the stage of cashless society the bank will start charging the customers too as they know we have no other choice, there is noting for noting from a bank

Youre with the wrong merchant service then...in my experience from the banking side given your turnover merchant service would absolutely negotiate a reduced fee.

Also...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1209/752304-debit-credit-card-fees/

Dj320

368100 wrote: »

Youre with the wrong merchant service then...in my experience from the banking side given your turnover merchant service would absolutely negotiate a reduced fee.

Also...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1209/752304-debit-credit-card-fees/

I never gave my turnover, only my charges, I’ve negotiated, my group had negotiated believe me

WoolyJumper

Dj320 wrote: »

How on earth do you think a shop makes money on selling you chewing gum for 75c and paying by card at 14c for contactless

Do you know what, I don't think about it. I don't know the ins-and outs of it and I'm probably going to go on living my life not thinking about it. I usually go to the same shop every morning most days I will buy a coffee, some breakfast... Sometimes petrol, credit etc I'll probably call in on my way home from work as well. Somedays I'll just run in for chewing gum or a bottle of water. I've never been refused and they seem to be doing fine. I guess in the grand scheme of things it all balances out. If they had a minimum spend I'd never go there. I don't like to carry cash, my bank charges me for using an ATM but contactless is free and it would seem ridiculous to go out of my way to go to an ATM to take out the minimum of 20 (if 20 euro notes are available) then have a load of change that I'll have to carry around which I hate.

So the truth is, I'll continue to pay for low value items with card and not think about it. Plenty of shops seem to manage fine so I'll just go else where if its more convenient for me. It's just the way businesses are going these days. Others will have to adapt or lose out.

368100

Dj320 wrote: »

I never gave my turnover, only my charges, I’ve negotiated, my group had negotiated believe me

No but you gave €1800 a month in fees which unless you have an annual turnover of €5million + is extortionate.

So your group did the deal? Obviously i dont know who they are but id look into it myself as your group arent the ones paying the charges...only way to know you're getting the best deal is to shop around.

Banks have to advertise fees by law...merchant services dont.

fritzelly

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I will buy a coffee, some breakfast... Sometimes petrol, credit etc I'll probably call in on my way home from work as well. Somedays I'll just run in for chewing gum or a bottle of water. I've never been refused and they seem to be doing fine.

WoolyJumper wrote: »

If they had a minimum spend I'd never go there.

And there is the crux of it - two statements telling you by refusing to take a card for a euro or two payment means you could be losing out on a hundred euro worth of business

fritzelly

Dj320 wrote: »

I never gave my turnover, only my charges, I’ve negotiated, my group had negotiated believe me

If the group negotiated the deal are payments centralized? Be looking at who is making the money here if they are...but I assume you are franchised so that wouldn't make sense

Dj320

368100 wrote: »

No but you gave €1800 a month in fees which unless you have an annual turnover of €5million + is extortionate.

So your group did the deal? Obviously i dont know who they are but id look into it myself as your group arent the ones paying the charges...only way to know you're getting the best deal is to shop around

I don’t even buy coin from the bank because of the charges, believe me when I say I shop around, every year.its people like the above person who can’t have 75c to buy chewing gum who simply don’t care if we loose money, we aren’t all as big as tesco etc who can afford to do it , but I bet if they had a business and pay charges like I do then they would

Dj320

fritzelly wrote: »

And there is the crux of it - two statements telling you by refusing to take a card for a euro or two payment means you could be losing out on a hundred euro worth of business

Well if it cost you money to sell it then are you loosing out?.

Dj320

fritzelly wrote: »

If the group negotiated the deal are payments centralized? Be looking at who is making the money here if they are...but I assume you are franchised so that wouldn't make sense

No we pay our own charges

Charles Babbage

fritzelly wrote: »

And there is the crux of it - two statements telling you by refusing to take a card for a euro or two payment means you could be losing out on a hundred euro worth of business

What is the point of business if all of the profit margin is used up in bank charges?



People need a sense of proportion and pay for small purchases with change.

368100

Dj320 wrote: »

I don’t even buy coin from the bank because of the charges, believe me when I say I shop around, every year.its people like the above person who can’t have 75c to buy chewing gum who simply don’t care if we loose money, we aren’t all as big as tesco etc who can afford to do it , but I bet if they had a business and pay charges like I do then they would

But have you shopped around on card services? Obviously if you're franchised you mightnt be able to change per the terms of the franchise but you could at least challenge your head office with some competitor quotes. If they arent carrying any of the cost then theyve no skin in the game. Only advice, its up to you.

Dj320

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Do you know what, I don't think about it. I don't know the ins-and outs of it and I'm probably going to go on living my life not thinking about it. I usually go to the same shop every morning most days I will buy a coffee, some breakfast... Sometimes petrol, credit etc I'll probably call in on my way home from work as well. Somedays I'll just run in for chewing gum or a bottle of water. I've never been refused and they seem to be doing fine. I guess in the grand scheme of things it all balances out. If they had a minimum spend I'd never go there. I don't like to carry cash, my bank charges me for using an ATM but contactless is free and it would seem ridiculous to go out of my way to go to an ATM to take out the minimum of 20 (if 20 euro notes are available) then have a load of change that I'll have to carry around which I hate.

So the truth is, I'll continue to pay for low value items with card and not think about it. Plenty of shops seem to manage fine so I'll just go else where if its more convenient for me. It's just the way businesses are going these days. Others will have to adapt or lose out.

Bit hypocritical, you won’t use an atm because the bank will charge you but it’s ok for the shop to take the hit if you buy a pack of gum, but mark my words, the banks won’t continue to let you tap for free, they will get everyone used to it and then the charges will start

Dj320

368100 wrote: »

But have you shopped around on card services? Obviously if you're franchised you mightnt be able to change per the terms of the franchise but you could at least challenge your head office with some competitor quotes. If they arent carrying any of the cost then theyve no skin in the game. Only advice, its up to you.

I can go anywhere for my banking , my group has no say, they do try to negotiate each year on behalf of the group but each year we very rarely find a better rate

368100

Dj320 wrote: »

I can go anywhere for my banking , my group has no say, they do try to negotiate each year on behalf of the group but each year we very rarely find a better rate

Banking and merchant services are completely seperate. You dont have to have merchant service with the same bank you run accounts with, in fact most main banks dont have their own card services...AIB do but the rest have deals with 3rd party providers.

If your group has no say....or is telling you they have no say theres something very wrong there. Have worked with business banking for over 10 years and have seen plenty of small businesses negotiate

fritzelly

May be an interesting read
https://www.visa.ie/media/images/297x210_visa_irish_pay_report_p16952_dh11-55-45770.pdf

But as you said you dispose of your cash in different ways so may not be totally relevant as you will be avoiding some charges.
The mobile payment boom is just starting and is definitely gonna take off. Look at Sweden which has pretty much get rid of cash
Card payments are increasing exponentially and ATM withdrawals are decreasing (not quite exponentially but going down all the same) - think I'm charged 50c for every ATM withdrawal.
"Took" out 40 euro last Saturday and still have 20 left tho, even when I think I might need cash guess what? Cashback!

WoolyJumper

Dj320 wrote: »

Bit hypocritical, you won’t use an atm because the bank will charge you but it’s ok for the shop to take the hit if you buy a pack of gum, but mark my words, the banks won’t continue to let you tap for free, they will get everyone used to it and then the charges will start

Either way someone has to take the hit. Its either 14 cent for you or 30 cent for me plus a load of inconvenience But really it's not about the cost or being hypocritical or not. The point is I'm just the average customer. Chances are most are like me and they are not going to worry about it being hypocritical they will just do what is most convenient for them. When they go to the shop they won't be thinking about is it profits, future banking charges. They will being thinking about getting what they need to get and going where they need to go. They will leave thinking whether they had a good experience or not and that will ultimately decide whether they come back or not.

I understand you have your business to worry about but the average consumer isn't going to worry about your profit margin. Unless you are a small local shop that means a lot to the community then chances are people will just as happily go somewhere else if its better for them.