NBA Draft 2011

Sea Devils

It's been called one of the weaker draft classes since 2000 by many draft experts.

With the Cavs owning the first pick and being tipped to select Kryie Irving it'll be interesting to see if he can become a starter right away . IMO I think Irving is pretty much the real deal. The thing that stands out to me is that he's already a very good shooter. Some of these PG's lately have come in with jumpshot questions -- Rose, Wall, Tyreke. Kyrie, IMO, is clearly a better shooter than all 3 when they entered. And he gets to the rim and finishes in traffic. Money from the line. Smart player.

Derrick Williams is another interesting prospect since he can play both the SF/PF positions. Personally I think if he's going to be an elite player at the next level, it's gonna be at the SF position, not PF. But I don't know if he has the guard skills (yet) to do that effectively. He has talent, but how good he's going to be is going to mostly be determined by how hard he works on his game, specifically on the perimeter. He could be an Andre Iguodala type of player depending on how hard he works.

Some other guys that I like include

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvPl5-wRsE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX0sxtOMiec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_SB-ZKAhGM

^ Biyombo has something like a 7' 7" wingspan. That's just crazy for a guy who is 6' 9".

So any other thoughts about the draft out there? .

Sea Devils

I also forgot to mention that I think we'll see a ton of draft day trades this year. No one really knows what the next CBA is gonna look like, and I think teams are gonna want to solidify their rosters while they still know what the rules will be. We don't know if there will still be an MLE, if sign & trade will be allowed, etc. Even though it's a bad draft class, it could be a fun draft as a result.

Kinetic^

Sea Devils wrote: »

^ Biyombo has something like a 7' 7" wingspan. That's just crazy for a guy who is 6' 9".

That's what the league is looking for, athletic/competitive/physical freaks. You can teach someone to shoot but you can't teach height and a few other things.


Hope to see Cleveland do well out of it and have whoever they pick hit the ground running.

moneyman

Draft is on Thursday, can't wait. It's on ESPN America for those that have it.

Irving is excellent and definitely will be able to start straight away. He's probably a level below players like Rose, Evans and Wall though, although you're right that he's a better shooter than any of them were coming out of college.

I watch a lot of college basketball, and I don't really agree that this is one of the weakest drafts in years. It's obviously not the strongest, but there are a lot of good players to be had in the first round, and in the second. It's lacking some firepower in terms of household names at the top of the first round, but I guarantee that it won't be looked back on as a weak draft overall.

Williams was brilliant in college, but he's a bit of a tweener. His position will be at SF, but he'll have to prove that he can play there full time. I'm not sure if I agree that he'll be an elite player. He lacks ball-handling and passing ability, but he is a good scorer and rebounder. He's also very smart, and shot a ridiculous percentage from 3 pt land since he only took smart shots. He's nothing like Iguodala though I don't think. Iguodala is an excellent defender and I don't think Williams will get anywhere near his level defensively. And although he's a very good athlete, he's not as explosive as Iggy. He can be a better scorer though for sure.

Biyimbo is very interesting (anyone with the time should read some of the articles about him - he has a brilliant story and teams apparently love him because he's so smart and interviews well. He speaks six different languages :eek:). He is a beast defensively and is an excellent athlete. But he has no offense at all and has very poor hands. He had an atrocius assist to turnover ratio.

SeaDevil, who do you want GS to draft? I hear that ye like Burks, he'd fit in well!

BTW, not a fan of Valanciunas at all! He'll probably be solid but I prefer both Vesely and Motiejunas.

moneyman

Sea Devils wrote: »

I also forgot to mention that I think we'll see a ton of draft day trades this year. No one really knows what the next CBA is gonna look like, and I think teams are gonna want to solidify their rosters while they still know what the rules will be. We don't know if there will still be an MLE, if sign & trade will be allowed, etc. Even though it's a bad draft class, it could be a fun draft as a result.

Agreed, likely to be a lot of trades going down. Rumours the Wolves are open to moving the 2nd pick, and the Cavs open to moving the fourth pick. NYK trying to get a top 11 pick to take Fredette as Utah will probably take him at 12 if they don't take a guard at 3. Fredette a possibility for Kings at 7 though, but Kings probably take Kawhi Leonard... A lot of possibilites!

Sea Devils

moneyman wrote: »

SeaDevil, who do you want GS to draft? I hear that ye like Burks, he'd fit in well!

.

I think even someone like Biyombo would be perfect. I know he's incredibly raw offensively but guys with his physical ability that play with as much energy/passion as he does usually do well in the league. The problem is having a combination of Udoh and Biyombo usually would mean they couldn't play together on the court at the same time but at least it would address our mostly awful interior defense

If Biyombo isn't available which is looking increasingly unlikely then I think someone like Chris Singleton would be perfect. He's a tough as nails defensive player who's exactly what we need right now and he also has a great work ethic.

Other then these two I can't think of much else. I like both Thompson and Burks but I think the last thing we need are more guys who can score from the perimeter.

What about your Kings.? Who do you see them drafting?

Sea Devils

moneyman wrote: »

Agreed, likely to be a lot of trades going down. Rumours the Wolves are open to moving the 2nd pick, and the Cavs open to moving the fourth pick. NYK trying to get a top 11 pick to take Fredette as Utah will probably take him at 12 if they don't take a guard at 3. Fredette a possibility for Kings at 7 though, but Kings probably take Kawhi Leonard... A lot of possibilites!

Interestingly I've read plenty of rumours going around that the Lakers and Minnesota have discussed moving the 2nd pick and filler for Lamar Odom and another one was Gasol also for the 2nd pick and Kevin Love. I doubt that there's any legs to either rumour but we shall see. .

moneyman

Sea Devils wrote: »

I think even someone like Biyombo would be perfect. I know he's incredibly raw offensively but guys with his physical ability that play with as much energy/passion as he does usually do well in the league. The problem is having a combination of Udoh and Biyombo usually would mean they couldn't play together on the court at the same time but at least it would address our mostly awful interior defense

If Biyombo isn't available which is looking increasingly unlikely then I think someone like Chris Singleton would be perfect. He's a tough as nails defensive player who's exactly what we need right now and he also has a great work ethic.

Other then these two I can't think of much else. I like both Thompson and Burks but I think the last thing we need are more guys who can score from the perimeter.

What about your Kings.? Who do you see them drafting?

I agree that Biyombo would be a good fit in GS. I'm not really worried about his offense, he's actually pretty smart and he won't kill you by taking silly shots. He only does what he can on that side of the ball. And he has DPOY type potential. He'll put in the work to be as good as he can, too.

Big fan of Singleton here! He also has DPOY type potential, and he's worked on his outside shot the last couple years to the point where it's reliable if he has his feet set. Fantastic athlete with size, I think he'd fit in perfect with the Kings, but I'm pretty sure we won't be taking him. He really is a brilliant athlete, he runs the floor like a guard and is huge and long.

A few mock drafts have GS taking Thompson at 11. That would have to be the best outside shooting backcourt in the NBA. Curry and Thompson? Good luck trying to stop them knocking down threes all day. I agree though, I think GS should take Biyombo or Singleton over him. Burks has a lot of potential, but I'm not sure about his attitude.

Kings will probably draft Kawhi Leonard if he's there. He's an athletic SF with a huge work ethic. His outside shot isn't reliable yet, which isn't convenient since we could do with another outside shooter, but he's a very good defender and rebounds very well. He's a leader and has an excellent work ethic so he'd benefit our team since we're very young and lack veterans. I'd say the Kings draft board looks like this right now: 1) Leonard 2) Fredette 3) Vesely 4) Walker.

Not sure if I should switch Fredette and Vesely, but I think they'd go with the former first. That's what the rumblings are out of Sacramento at this point! Wouldn't be surprised if it's traded, though!

moneyman

Sea Devils wrote: »

Interestingly I've read plenty of rumours going around that the Lakers and Minnesota have discussed moving the 2nd pick and filler for Lamar Odom and another one was Gasol also for the 2nd pick and Kevin Love. I doubt that there's any legs to either rumour but we shall see. .

I wouldn't do either if I was Minny, especially the second trade, but David Kahn is an idiot of epic proportions, so nothing would surprise me with him. Has to be the most inept GM in the NBA, and that's saying something.


BTW, Leonard is famous for having abnormally huge hands. Here's a picture to show just how freaky they are:

Ridiculous!

For Forks Sake

Woe betide the team that drafts Fredette, he's not going to get away with getting everyone else to do his defensive work for him in the NBA the way he did in college.

moneyman

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Woe betide the team that drafts Fredette, he's not going to get away with getting everyone else to do his defensive work for him in the NBA the way he did in college.

He won't have to do that in the NBA. His lateral quickness is actually very good, and he's a better athlete than most give him credit for (as he showed at the combine). He was under instructions from his coach to save energy defensively since he had to carry 90% of his team on offense. I don't see any reason why he can't be adequate defensively at the next level if he puts in the work. I know he's been hyped up, but he can really play, and is going to be a good player in the NBA.

Sea Devils

Sea Devils wrote: »

I think even someone like Biyombo would be perfect. I know he's incredibly raw offensively but guys with his physical ability that play with as much energy/passion as he does usually do well in the league. The problem is having a combination of Udoh and Biyombo usually would mean they couldn't play together on the court at the same time but at least it would address our mostly awful interior defense

Just one more note about Biyombo that I found out yesterday. He DOMINATED in the Nike Hoops Summit, recording 12 points, 11 boards, & 10 blocks in just 28 minutes. This was against high level competition too. The Team USA starting lineup was Anthony Davis (Might go #1 next year), James McAdoo (Top 3-5 pick next year), Austin Rivers (lottery pick), Brad Beal (lottery pick), Marcus Teague (lottery pick).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB5OrPU9QEg

Starting to hope that he falls to us now.

As for Fredette I'm starting to come around to him.As Moneyman said he didn't have had the opportunity to exhibit PG skills or being a good defender due to the role he needed to fill on his team. This is an interesting article about him

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/30321/will-jimmers-skills-translate-to-next-level

Lafortezza

Reading on NBA.com this morning that the Wizards have 3 picks in the top 34 players or so in this draft. Even though it's a weak draft compared to other years, that's some decent rookies to be adding to a very young core of Wall, Young, Blatche and McGee. If they can get rid of Rashard Lewis's massive contract somehow they could do some interesting trades to make them a contender a few years down the line.

Other speculation about Josh Smith being traded from Atlanta, and maybe Dwight Howard being traded since he's been critical of his ORL teammates and his contract is up next summer.

padraig_f

Don't watch college basketball much so only know from I've read, but Bill Simmons had a good podcast on it yesterday with Chad Ford:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/feeds/itunes/podCast?id=2864045

According to them, Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams are clear #1 and #2, though they weren't hugely complimentary, comparing them to Mo Williams and Al Harrington respectively. Then they said there's a fairly sharp drop-off to #3 and another drop-off after about #9.

They were saying how the Cavs can put pressure on the Timberwolves by threatening to pick Derrick Williams at #1 because Irving won't fit the Timberwolves, who have big plans for Ricky Rubio at PG, maybe even asking for something in exchange to take Irving at #1.

Biyombo is an interesting character alright, was reading this article on him yesterday:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6679686/your-deal

There are some question marks about his age, maybe it's nothing, but listening to him talk, he does sound very mature for an 18-year-old.

moneyman

Al Harrington is actually a pretty good comparison for Williams, meant to make that one in my earlier post! He does have the talent to be better, though. Irving will be better than Mo Williams, I guarantee it.

There might not be a drop-off to 3. That's the perception, but Kanter could end up being the best player from the draft. The thing is nobody has really seen him play meaningful games in the last couple years, so no one really knows. But he's big, strong and skilled, and is a very good rebounder. Also, Brandon Knight has a game that's probably more suited to the pros, and he is extremely smart with a huge work ethic. I wouldn't bet against him, either. There's a slew of guys who could surprise people - the above as well as Walker, Fredette, Burks, Leonard etc. Then you have the Euros who are pretty talented. This draft really isn't as weak as people are making it out to be.

That bit about Cle threatening to take Williams doesn't really make sense considering that Wolves are attempting to trade the pick because they don't want Williams or Irving. In fact, if Cleveland were to take Williams, Wolves would probably be very happy as it would be much easier to get a trade partner for Irving than for Williams.

I've read that Biyombo has had bone density scans among other tests which all suggest that he is in fact 19 years old, and not older as many suspect. His face looks young, it's his body and personality that appear much older. BTW that Nike Hoop Summit game was the first in which a triple-double was ever recorded. Should be noted though that it's not a competitive game and defense isn't really played in it. Biyombo went all out in the game. It's impressive, but still has to be taken with a grain of salt.


Supposedly GSW made a trade offer for Howard. I can't remember it off the top of my head but it wasn't enough to get it done. Apparently Spurs are shopping Parker, and have talked to Toronto and Sac about their picks (5 and 7). Not sure how I'd feel about that. Parker is a good player and a winner, but he doesn't fit in with the Kings and he has a very big contract.

Sea Devils

Yeah apparently we offered Ellis, Biedrins and Udoh for Howard. It was shot down immediately by the Magic though.

Just on the Kings and Tony Parker rumour. I've heard the Spurs want to attach Richard Jefferson to the trade , which makes the deal considerably less attractive for a team like the Kings, as he's owed $30M through 2014.

moneyman

Sea Devils wrote: »

Yeah apparently we offered Ellis, Biedrins and Udoh for Howard. It was shot down immediately by the Magic though.

Just on the Kings and Tony Parker rumour. I've heard the Spurs want to attach Richard Jefferson to the trade , which makes the deal considerably less attractive for a team like the Kings, as he's owed $30M through 2014.

Heard that also, and I can't see Petrie doing that. If he does I will be seriously pissed off. Not a good deal at all. Seems like everyone in the Kings org is in win-now mode, but if this goes down it's not the right way to go about it. Doing this deal will limit our ability to re-sign Thornton and Dalembert, both of whom I would much prefer over Parker and Jefferson, especially with their contracts.

Sea Devils

moneyman wrote: »

Heard that also, and I can't see Petrie doing that. If he does I will be seriously pissed off. Not a good deal at all. Seems like everyone in the Kings org is in win-now mode, but if this goes down it's not the right way to go about it. Doing this deal will limit our ability to re-sign Thornton and Dalembert, both of whom I would much prefer over Parker and Jefferson, especially with their contracts.

It's definitely not a good deal at all but remember, what the Spurs want and what they can get are probably two different things. If they wanna shed salary, none of the teams with lottery picks are gonna help them do that. They're all gonna give the same answer you gave.

If they definitely want to shed salary, they're gonna have to go to a team like the Lakers. If they want a lottery pick, Sacramento would make sense for both teams.

I can also understand the Spurs position too though. How else are they going to get out of Jefferson's contract before the summer of '14? I don't think they'll be able to if they don't attach his contract to Parker.

GoldFour4

Phoenix also reportedly discussed a trade for the no.2 pick. 1 offer was steve nash for the pick. Apparently Minny sees Nash as the ideal mentor for Rubio. The second trade discussed was Marcin Gortat and the suns lottery pick in return for the no.2 pick.

Definetly agree that we're gonna see a lot of trades tomorrow night

Sea Devils

Some quick draft day rumours!

Andre Miller & #21 to Orlando for Jameer Nelson. If this trade goes through then Orlando would then trade Miller for either Josh Smith or Iguodala

Per Chad Ford of ESPN...Cleveland's trying to get a 3rd lottery pick, and is willing to take a bad contract back. Kings & Pistons are the targets.

Allegedly the Rockets are trying to get the #2 pick, and have given the Wolves 10 different trade options to choose from. The only think that would make sense for both teams is Kevin Martin for #2 and filler, but I'm not sure the Rockets would want to do that.

Indiana also want the #2 pick and are willing to part with their 1st round pick and Roy Hibbert. That would be interesting. If I'm Kahn then this is the most enticing trade offer so far. Atlanta are also dangling Josh Smith as well.

Speaking of the Kings and the 7th pick. The latest rumour is they could trade it to Denver for Ray Felton & #22.

That makes sense for both teams, IMO.

Paully D

Looking forward to this now. What time does it start (our time) and what channels is it on? Thanks.

Sea Devils

Starts at 12.30 AM on ESPN. There's a preview show on at midnight if you want to find out more about the prospects.

padraig_f

Let's go....

moneyman

Appears the Kings are definitely going to trade the 7th pick. I hope not because all of the rumours have been terrible. We won't know for sure of any trades at this point because the deadline has passed for trading picks, any trades made at this point will be announced by Stern on the podium. Might hear some solid rumours, though.

Pretty crazy day. Rumours flying all over the place. It's going to be a disappointment for me, I'm pretty sure we're going to make a stupid trade.

moneyman

hree way trade between Sacramento, Milwaukee and Charlotte. Only part of the deal revealed so far. The Bucks get Stephen Jackson, Shaun Livingston. Charlotte gets the 7th pick and Corey Maggette.

So we've given up the 7th pick, but don't know what we've gotten back yet. Perhaps Bucks 10 and Cha's 19? Doubt it.

Sea Devils

Charlotte gets: #7, Corey Maggette
Sacramento gets: John Salmons, #10
Milwaukee gets: Steven Jackson, Shaun Livingston Beno Udrih, #19 .

Brilliant trade by the Bucks. They dumped Maggette and Salmons contracts and got two picks out of it.

eagle eye

Nearly ready to go. Real interested in who the Cavs get with their early picks.

padraig_f

bizarre trade for the Kings
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=threewaydeal-110623

eagle eye

Irving goes first. Hope he turns out to be a great, really feel sorry for the Cavs fans with the way LeBron left.

eagle eye

padraig_f wrote: »

bizarre trade for the Kings
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=threewaydeal-110623

Wtf are they at? That seems stupid.

Sea Devils

No surprises with the top 3 picks so far.