Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Jamie Cal

CorkonianRebel wrote: »

I know you kinda bleeped yourself out, but you can't be saying things like that about Davy Fitz and Sean Og when they both give everything they have all the time no matter what they do.So what that Sean Og has Fiji relations? Thats nothing to do with it.

I wouldnt expect Davy Fitz to say "yes I'm really happy with the game" Its good that he is disgusted. I would want a manager to be like that.He cares and wants to win so he wants to bounce back in the next game.

They both are entitled to their opinions about refs and who plays.You can disagree but lets not insult them

I hardly insulted them, well, maybe Sean Og, but in my mind he totally deserved it. Totally demeaning what he said about the team. And yeah, as I said, to be fair to Davy he did Cork credit where it was due, but he's still a nob. On the pitch every 2 seconds roaring at the ref, he should be penalized for it.

Thinkstoomuch

lukin wrote: »

I like Davy Fitz, he's passionate about our national sport and I wish more people in this country had the same passion for it as they have for those over-paid primadonnas across the water.
However he brings a lot of abuse upon himself with his whining (especially as others have said when he doesn't actually say what he is whining about).
He did say Cork were the better team, fair play to him for that.
The incident which made him so mad was the injury to Conlon (after an elbow by William Egan I think). As a Corkman I wouldn't condone it, it was dirty play, should have been a yellow, possibly a red.
I don't know if Conlon had stayed on whether Clare would have won. Given the margin of victory, I would say probably not.

When I first saw Egans incident with Conlon i thought it was bad but on second viewing it was more clumsy and awkward than malice.Egan is not a dirty player,never was.If anything he always lacked the bit of cut and bite in challenges.

I wouldnt condone dangerous play but i honestly dont think he meant it.
Fair play to a lot of Clare fans even posters here ,they did not mention or seem too bothered about it.They knew Clare were beaten anyway and Cork had more injuries than them so if a anything it levelled out the playing field.It gave Cork no huge advantage.

It reminded me of Paul O Connells incident with Kearney in the rubgy.Looked awful but totally out of character.I hope Conlon recovers in time.

A huge game tonight for the minors.Cork have to win and this game should define Pat Kennallys term.Loose and he should not get a second term.Win and he has made progress so then you cant dispute that.

He said last year that if a player has two bad games in a row their a bad player.I hope he keeps that in mind tonight regards himself.Cork were woeful last year and if they loose tonight then he has two bad years in charge.He should just walk away.Some how i dont think he is the type to do so.

Thinkstoomuch

A very good article here by Christy O Connor

AT THE end of the game on Sunday, Cork boss Jimmy Barry-Murphy smiled, hugged Kieran Kingston before turning to the Mackey Stand and briefly waving his fist in jubilation.

For a split second, Barry-Murphy muttered something, which was undoubtedly a silent declaration of his own beliefs, and a denouncement to those who had doubted him. Barry-Murphy has had a lot of victories during his career, but this was definitely one of his sweetest. Cork were very impressive and Barry-Murphy and his management got everything right.

They worked hard on their fitness after the league relegation final and their hurling was far crisper and sharper than Clare’s. It was mentioned here last week that despite the immense fitness work Clare had done, a significant advantage for Cork was they were bound to be fresher.

That was a massive theme of the game. Despite some anger from Cork people towards some personal radio comments made afterwards, the Cork performance has to be contextualised with that perspective – Clare were flat and performed really poorly. Clare always ran that risk with how hard they had trained.

When you also look back on Clare’s season, they repeatedly had to get up for big games, from every league game to last Sunday. Similar to Limerick, who had nine weeks to prepare for Tipp, Cork had ten weeks to get ready for last Sunday. It was almost their sole focus all year.

Cork also addressed the issues which had murdered them in the relegation final, especially work-rate, breaking ball and puck-outs. Cork won the puck-out stat 29-24, which included 14 Clare puck-outs. After winning 35 Cork puck-outs in April, Clare won just nine on Sunday.

Although Cork only won 11 of the 22 balls hit in to their full-forward line, they were still far more precise than they had been in the relegation final, winning roughly 60% of their 84 stick-passes. Cork carried out their gameplan to military precision. Their work-rate was immense but Cork’s economy set them apart.

Cork had 47% possession and when you look at the combined number of plays the Cork forwards made – 63 – those numbers are really low. Including the two subs, that’s an average of just eight plays per player, which wouldn’t win many matches. It was what most of those forwards did with their possession which counted.

From nine plays, Patrick Horgan scored three points from play and was fouled for three frees. From nine plays, Luke O’Farrell scored two points from play, set up two more, made a block that led to another point, engineered a goal chance and hit one wide.

Seamus Harnedy made just 13 plays but he scored three points from play, won two puck-outs, was fouled for a free and had a hand in one of Conor Lehane’s points by moving it fast from a ground stroke. Although Lehane was quieter, making eight plays, he hit two points from play, won a puck-out and a free. Jamie Coughlan made just five plays, but he bagged two points from play and almost had another. Although Daniel Kearney made just 13 plays at midfield, most of those were big plays and he was a real contender for man-of-the-match. The most productive player on the field though, was Clare’s Podge Collins.

From 13 plays, he scored five points from play, set up one point, and won two frees, including a 20-metre free. The one wide Collins had though, was a critical goal chance missed, which summed up Clare’s day. In fairness to Cork, they weren’t expected to win a shootout without hitting at least two goals.

In reality, they would have needed those green flags if Clare had converted four of their six goal-scoring chances. Conor McGrath’s wide five minutes into second half when the sides were level was a key moment because Cork were on the rampage by then and a goal may have stemmed the tide.

Darach Honan is also a really interesting case-study in how Clare’s gameplan effectively broke down. From just seven first half plays, Honan was involved in four goalscoring chances. He set up two, had one himself, while another chance came off him. He looked lethal in possession but that supply soon dried up.

With Brian Murphy tagging himself to the roaming Tony Kelly, with Kelly coming deep to midfield and then running a loop, the centre of the Cork defence was often wide open in the first half but Clare never exploited it. That tactic was even less forgiving when the long-ball dried up to just two forwards inside their own 45 with such a strong breeze. When they tried to play a running game after the break, Honan was starved, making just three plays. Cork sat a sweeper back and Clare kept running into a wall of bodies down the centre of the Cork defence.

When the Cork half-back line took over, Clare had no answer. With Kelly marked out of the game, making just 10 plays, most of them too deep to be a scoring threat, Clare had no real attacking thrust from that running game. Cork also crucified them with turnovers when they tried to run the ball out of defence. This was an impressive Cork display. They will have to lift it for Limerick but this was supreme satisfaction. Vindication for a lot of hard decisions and big calls made over the last six months. It was no wonder Barry-Murphy was so elated.

premierstone

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

A very good article here by Christy O Connor.

I read he's articles because they are very different and I suppose you could call them interesting but fcuk me he doesn't half fill them with irrelevant and useless stats, a few here and there are fine, but he really over does it from my experience, the article above while by no means the worst for this is a good example.

Stats will only tell you a very small part of the picture and its the story, individual battles, tactics, oportunitism etc. that have a far greater bearing on a game IMO.

Hidalgo

premierstone wrote: »

I read he's articles because they are very different and I suppose you could call them interesting but fcuk me he doesn't half fill them with irrelevant and useless stats, a few here and there are fine, but he really over does it from my experience, the article above while by no means the worst for this is a good example.

Stats will only tell you a very small part of the picture and its the story, individual battles, tactics, oportunitism etc. that have a far greater bearing on a game IMO.

His articles as are a lot of his radio interviews all stat related. That's the angle he's going for i guess.

At least its different from a lot of the lazy journalism you read in the papers/see in the Sunday Game.
In fairness most of the stats he uses do have some use as they can give an indication as to why a game panned out as it did.
The stats can also add weight when discussing individual battles. Often people will rave about someone having a great game because of the amount of ball they hurled, but stats can look and give an indication if the player used the ball well or not to the advantage of his team

varberg

Yea very good article by o connor much better than the usual from a lot of gaa and sports journalists in ireland, the "mouthwatering clash" or a "daunting task playing the all ireland champions" or if a player wins another all ireland hes an "immortal player" etc.

The ones i like reading talking about gaa are cristy o connor, nicky english, vincent hogan and the down to earth sean moran as well as some of the local newspapers. Donal og cusack wrote some brilliant articles last summer. The best newspaper overall for gaa coverage is definately the examiner which is on the ball and very informative.

premierstone

Hidalgo wrote: »

His articles as are a lot of his radio interviews all stat related. That's the angle he's going for i guess.

At least its different from a lot of the lazy journalism you read in the papers/see in the Sunday Game.
In fairness most of the stats he uses do have some use as they can give an indication as to why a game panned out as it did.
The stats can also add weight when discussing individual battles. Often people will rave about someone having a great game because of the amount of ball they hurled, but stats can look and give an indication if the player used the ball well or not to the advantage of his team

Oh I fully appreciate thats the angle he is going for and as I said I read them because they are different so I guess its working for him.

But IMO he over does it and the article looses credibility becasue of it, take he's article above where he mentions the number of play's by each forward, he states Tony Kelly was marked out of the game and made 10 plays, yet Kearney who had only 3 plays more was MOTM - now I agree with both of he's conclusions the stats he has used to illustrate it do not back it up.

I like the concept but i think a happy medium would be far better, and as everyone knows bare stats can be twisted and manipulated to suit nearly any point of view. Stats supported by analysis and vice versa is far more credible.

Thinkstoomuch

premierstone wrote: »

Oh I fully appreciate thats the angle he is going for and as I said I read them because they are different so I guess its working for him.

But IMO he over does it and the article looses credibility becasue of it, take he's article above where he mentions the number of play's by each forward, he states Tony Kelly was marked out of the game and made 10 plays, yet Kearney who had only 3 plays more was MOTM - now I agree with both of he's conclusions the stats he has used to illustrate it do not back it up.

I like the concept but i think a happy medium would be far better, and as everyone knows bare stats can be twisted and manipulated to suit nearly any point of view. Stats supported by analysis and vice versa is far more credible.

I see your side of the argument in fairness.

But i'll admit im a fan of Christy O connor compared to many other journalists expiceally in the Cork papers where a lot are just do lazy journalsim and are afraid to the rock the boat with any issues regarding the County Board.
Its no suprise the incoming adminstrator was chief editor of one paper.


Christy can get blinded with facts buts he is still readable and must put great research in to getting them.
He would be the only reason i would buy the echo to be honest.There is one writer their who just wrote article after article saying Cussen should be in the Cork squad since last January.He never goes outside the box and picks a player on the fringes etc.He just goes with reputation of a player most of the time.

Im a big fan of Tony Condisine and Loughanne also.They call it as they see it and are not afraid to be unpopular .

There is two very good women reporters in the Echo.Sarah o Donovan was spot on in her preview of Corks line up bar one or two pieces.She knows her stuff.

And Linda Mellrick was holding no punches when she criticsed the woeful conditions Cork camoige team had suffered down the years in Saturdays edition.Thats good to see,someone who calls a spade a spade.

Hidalgo

Does Christy write full time for the Echo these times?
In fairness his type of articles can dovetail well with other styles, gives a good contrast on a game.

They can be stat heavy if your only reading Christy and nothing else.

zetecescort

Minor game gone to extra time Cork 1-15 Waterford 2-12 at end of normal time

ShamoBuc

zetecescort wrote: »

Minor game gone to extra time Cork 1-15 Waterford 2-12 at end of normal time

Lost....Cork 1-20 v 3-19


0-05 v 2-07 in et:(

Thinkstoomuch

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Lost....Cork 1-20 v 3-19


0-05 v 2-07 in et:(

Cork beaten by 5 but in truth should have been well beaten in normal time.

I said after the Clare win that i would not be convinced by Kenneally.Judge him tonight as i had grave doubts about him is what I said.

I dont doubt hes commiment but it commiment alone wont cut it.There is a lot of equally committed club managers out their with proven track records overlooked year after year.


He failed in hes two year term.Thanks for your effort and commiment but its just not working should be the mindset.

Fact is this was the best Cork side assembled in years and had no distractions with football as they were beaten. Some of the changes he made and didnt make were baffling.There goes the same old story in Cork underage.Loose another close game.Its bad it went to extra time as they will be a gloss made on that fact and the usal excuses...we did not get the breaks.we were unlucky...it did not fall for us on the night but thats hurling,we could easily of one.Its so predictable at underage ,you can only laugh at this stage.From crying so much over the last ten years all the tears have dried up.

The fact is Pat Kenneally was never a intercounty manager.The intermediates in Cork normally do well but he failed with them too.

After the Clare game all i heard him on the radio say was how he spoke to the players at half time and told them some home truths and cork won.It was like it was all hes doing.He was the arithect of Corks win.

But wait for it now.He probably blame the players now.Its never he fault.People go on a out Davys history of abuse on the sideline.We have the same hear.He was involved in a scuffle last year against Clare too.You wouldnt see JBM doing that.

You can have all the development squads you want but their not worth a dime if you have a poor manager in charge.All you get is wasted talent.

Noboddy in Cork now as per status quo will come out and call a spade a spade.The level of intercounty underage managers in Cork hurling needs to be looked at.

Nothing personal against the guy but he just is not up to this level.Hes term is up.Will he go??

Probably not,he might to take over the U21 team when Ger Fitz again wastes another year of talent in 3 weeks time.

For all the glory from sunday as i said Cork hurling has still serious serious problems.Tonight proved it but the U21s will be a lot worse.

Thinkstoomuch

Hidalgo wrote: »

Does Christy write full time for the Echo these times?
In fairness his type of articles can dovetail well with other styles, gives a good contrast on a game.

They can be stat heavy if your only reading Christy and nothing else.

yeah every tuesday.Their a good read.He has been with the echo for over a year if not more.
No agendas...he calls a spade a spade.

Treble20

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

Cork beaten by 5 but in truth should have been well beaten in normal time.

I said after the Clare win that i would not be convinced by Kenneally.Judge him tonight as i had grave doubts about him is what I said.

I dont doubt hes commiment but it commiment alone wont cut it.There is a lot of equally committed club managers out their with proven track records overlooked year after year.


He failed in hes two year term.Thanks for your effort and commiment but its just not working should be the mindset.

Fact is this was the best Cork side assembled in years and had no distractions with football as they were beaten. Some of the changes he made and didnt make were baffling.There goes the same old story in Cork underage.Loose another close game.Its bad it went to extra time as they will be a gloss made on that fact and the usal excuses...we did not get the breaks.we were unlucky...it did not fall for us on the night but thats hurling,we could easily of one.Its so predictable at underage ,you can only laugh at this stage.From crying so much over the last ten years all the tears have dried up.

The fact is Pat Kenneally was never a intercounty manager.The intermediates in Cork normally do well but he failed with them too.

After the Clare game all i heard him on the radio say was how he spoke to the players at half time and told them some home truths and cork won.It was like it was all hes doing.He was the arithect of Corks win.

But wait for it now.He probably blame the players now.Its never he fault.People go on a out Davys history of abuse on the sideline.We have the same hear.He was involved in a scuffle last year against Clare too.You wouldnt see JBM doing that.

You can have all the development squads you want but their not worth a dime if you have a poor manager in charge.All you get is wasted talent.

Noboddy in Cork now as per status quo will come out and call a spade a spade.The level of intercounty underage managers in Cork hurling needs to be looked at.

Nothing personal against the guy but he just is not up to this level.Hes term is up.Will he go??

Probably not,he might to take over the U21 team when Ger Fitz again wastes another year of talent in 3 weeks time.

For all the glory from sunday as i said Cork hurling has still serious serious problems.Tonight proved it but the U21s will be a lot worse.

It's fair to say Kenneally was never a popular choice for that job.

Treble20

Would anyone on here have an idea what terrace Cork fans will be occupying for the forthcoming Munster Hurling final in Limerick? Thinking of buying tickets tomorrow but probably there's no designated end so i'll probably go for the end nearest the main road.

I reckon it's quite possible this game will be a sell out.lots of hype below in Limerick about the game and with their minors now in the final I'm sure their will be a big following for the Treaty boys.

ShamoBuc

Treble20 wrote: »

It's fair to say Kenneally was never a popular choice for that job.

Popular enough with the people who make decisions though - more is the pity.

There are enough hurlers at minor and u21 for us to be competitive, the problem lies elsewhere.

Most Cork GAA people know this already and have done so for years.

Thinkstoomuch

Treble20 wrote: »

It's fair to say Kenneally was never a popular choice for that job.

The bottom line for me is he had hes two year term.He had hes chance.

Leave some one else have a go.Most of Cork under 15 and under 16 squads are competitve and succesful.At minor they fail.There has to be a common deminiator????

Some one said here the same problem exists in camoige at underage.

Its so frustrating to see talent wasted.The thing about this is many in Cork wont see this as a failure.

The incoming CCB admin man wrote a piece in the paper last year that minor teams should not necessarily be judged on success but once they produce 2 minors for senior every year and that in hes case when he was minor football manager in 98 Cork had lost to limerick but 12 laters had produced a few senior all ireland medal winners and maybee the true success of a .minor team is judged 12 years later in what they achieved.

I find that hard to grasp to be honest.
But thats the view the new man in had last year.Is their much hope for change on that.

How will this management team be judged???

Thinkstoomuch

Treble20 wrote: »

Would anyone on here have an idea what terrace Cork fans will be occupying for the forthcoming Munster Hurling final in Limerick? Thinking of buying tickets tomorrow but probably there's no designated end so i'll probably go for the end nearest the main road.

I reckon it's quite possible this game will be a sell out.lots of hype below in Limerick about the game and with their minors now in the final I'm sure their will be a big following for the Treaty boys.

Id say there will no bother swapping below anyway.
There on sale on ticketmaster currently.
Id say there probably will be special trains put on from Cork too id say.

ShamoBuc

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

The bottom line for me is he had hes two year term.He had hes chance.

Leave some one else have a go.Most of Cork under 15 and under 16 squads are competitve and succesful.At minor they fail.There has to be a common deminiator????

Some one said here the same problem exists in camoige at underage.

Its so frustrating to see talent wasted.The thing about this is many in Cork wont see this as a failure.

The incoming CCB admin man wrote a piece in the paper last year that minor teams should not necessarily be judged on success but once they produce 2 minors for senior every year and that in hes case when he was minor football manager in 98 Cork had lost to limerick but 12 laters had produced a few senior all ireland medal winners and maybee the true success of a .minor team is judged 12 years later in what they achieved.

I find that hard to grasp to be honest.
But thats the view the new man in had last year.Is their much hope for change on that.

How will this management team be judged???

I hate when this shít is spouted. A couple of players that never played minor end up with senior All Ireland medals aswell - Counihans club mate is a case in point. It's a cop out, plain and simple, for under performing minor teams.

Thinkstoomuch

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I hate when this shít is spouted. A couple of players that never played minor end up with senior All Ireland medals aswell - Counihans club mate is a case in point. It's a cop out, plain and simple, for under performing minor teams.

I agree fully.I never read anything like it before if im honest.

Thinkstoomuch

Minor failure can still lead to major achievementsPublished on May 16th, 2012Written by: Diarmuid O'DonovanNext Prev Former Cork minor football selector and manager Diarmuid O’Donovan explains why losing at underage doesn’t always impact on players’ developement towards the senior squad.   IN JULY 1998 the Cork minor football team was defeated 0-12 to 0-6 by Limerick in the semi-final of the Munster minor football championship. The result was considered to be a major shock as it was the first time in 42 years that Limerick had defeated Cork in the Munster minor football competition. The result stretched Cork’s run without a Munster title to five years. It was the longest run without success that Cork experienced since the 1953 to 1958 drought. In 1994 Cork lost to Kerry. In 1995, Cork was shocked by Tipperary. In 1996, Kerry won a wet final at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, and in 1997 an injury-ridden Cork team were well beaten by Kerry in Tralee. Then came the Limerick game. That defeat caused a lot of eyebrows to be raised. I have good reason to remember the game as it was my first year as a Cork minor football selector. It is almost 14 years since that night and the result has a different complexion now. ‘Cork should never lose a football match to Limerick,’ we were told. But that was no ordinary Limerick team. It included Jason Stokes, Brian Geary, John Galvin, Conor Fitzgerald, Stephen Lucey and Jeremy Staunton (later an Irish rugby international). These players have been the backbone of the Limerick senior football team for the last decade. Pat O’Shea was coach to Limerick. He went on to guide his native Kerry to All-Ireland senior success, against Cork in 2007. The players on the Cork team did well too. Paudie Kissane and Graham Canty have All-Ireland medals and All-Star awards. While Derek Kavanagh**, Sean Levis, Sean O’Brien Diarmuid Duggan and Conor McCarthy all had long senior inter-county careers. That Cork minor team produced two senior All-Ireland medal winners. So did the most of Cork minor teams for the next 10 years. The All-Ireland minor championship title has only come to Cork once during that time, but the system keeps producing the players that are keeping Cork at the forefront of the U21 and senior All-Ireland championships. By now, I hope you can see where this column is going? It concerns the burning topic of the week in Cork GAA — ‘In the light of last Wednesday’s defeat at the hands of Clare in the Munster minor hurling championship, what is the future of Cork hurling?’ I have been involved in minor grade affairs in Cork, as a selector, coach or administrator for most of the 14 years since the ‘Limerick affair’. The lack of tangible minor hurling success over that period is baffling. Having said that, the word ‘tangible’ is important. I say this because winning trophies may be the only tangible measure of the Cork minor hurling team in a given year, but as I have shown above, it may not be the final outcome of that year. There have been many questions asked about the Cork minor set-up over the past few days. Questions like: Are the selectors up to the job? After all, some of them have never been selectors at minor level before. All I can say about that  in 1998 three of the selection committee, Teddy Holland, the late John Kerins and myself were new to the job. The same questions were asked. In the next two seasons however, Cork won two Munster championships and an All-Ireland title. Were we naive in 1998? To a degree, yes. Selection committees, just like teams, need time to bed down. There is also the factor that neither God nor man can predict — how a minor team will perform on any one-off occasion. For most minor players each game is the biggest day of their sporting lives; not all of them, despite their talents, perform at their best. The greatest selection committee in the world could not fully prepare for how a minor team will preform on a given day. Questions have also been raised about the new development squad system in Cork, and how well is it working. To be honest, it is too early to say. This is the third year of the revamped development squad system. I have a personal involvement with one of the football squads and this has allowed me to attend various workshops that have been organised for the coaches. The development squad system has many advantages over the old divisional team system. Nevertheless, the system also has its flaws. There is the temptation to try and win the  development squad tournaments at all costs. If that happens, a lot of young players who have the potential to become good minors will be discarded in favour of big lads more physically developed at 15 and 16 years of age. It is also only the second year of the new underage competition structures in Cork. They are generally working well. The new structures mean that teams are now playing against other teams of similar ability, and because there are fewer regions, there are more teams in each grade. This should give players a better chance to develop and, in time, improve the quality of both adult club competitions and the inter-county teams. The current minor team would have played most of their teenage years playing in the old divisional system. This system had grown tired and jaded and players were probably not extended to their competitive limits as often as they should have been. On the other hand, there have been some fantastically competitive minor hurling championship competitions in Cork over the last decade. Each year when the minor championships were complete, it appeared there was enough quality 17 year-old players on display to make a super Cork minor team the following year. Yet the excellent work that has been put in by Sarsfields, Midleton, Blackrock, Newtownshandrum, Carrigaline, Glen Rovers, and many other clubs has not carried through to the inter-county arena. Finally, the question has been asked why were there so few city-based players on the Cork panel? It is important to avoid personalities here because it is easy to make a case for one individual over another. In general however, two-thirds of Cork minor panel should come from the premier minor grades. If you look at last Thursday’s panel against Clare, 19 premier grade players (12 from Premier 1 and seven from Premier 2) were on the panel. Four were from the A grade and one from the C grade. There is nothing abnormal about the make-up of that panel. When you look deeper, there are 28 clubs in the top two grades of Cork minor hurling. Seven of these (25%) are city based clubs. There were three city based players on the panel. That is 12.5% of the panel. Statistically there should have been five or six city based players on the panel, but no more. Statistics however, do not account for lack of form, and other issues that selectors have to deal with. There is a looming crisis for the GAA in all urban areas, and Cork city is no exception this. The lack of city-based players is most likely accounted for by the falling standards urban GAA competition, and the failures of urban schools in the Harty Cup schools competition, rather than any perceived bias on behalf of the Cork selectors. What does all this say for the future of Cork minor hurling? In truth very little. As with the case of the 1998 minor football team it could take 12 years before you can finally pass judgement on any particular team or result. The real purpose of the Cork minor team remains the same as it ever was; to find players good enough to win senior All-Ireland medals with Cork. If the system produces two senior players of this calibre every year, then it is doing its job. Too many variables have changed in the last two years to cast a final judgement last Thursday’s result. The selectors will have to weather whatever criticism comes there way as many a selection committee before them has had to do. When preparing for next year they should however, keep in mind the old New Zealand rugby maxim of performance malfun

Thinkstoomuch

Too large a post unforunately for me to put in spaces so apologies:-).

He has some valid points but I dont agree with the overall theme.

Horse84

Jesus that's some attitude to have. Ok he might have a point in how minor squads should be providing 1 or 2 players that are potential senior players however in counties like cork where a lot of our players are dual, winning at minor at either code surely influences which code they do decide to concentrate on. How many of those lads last night will hurling lose?

Also winning is winning, that mentality has been lost. Posters are right when they acknowledge the amount of tight games that have been lost in hurling at all levels.

Hurling wise I thought last night cork were more than a match man for man with Waterford however when it went to extra time I feared for them as a lot of those wford lads had tasted success at underage. They know how to win and fair play to them they 100% deserved it.

On another note any word back on how the development squads did against Kilkenny?

Hidalgo

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

The bottom line for me is he had hes two year term.He had hes chance.

Leave some one else have a go.Most of Cork under 15 and under 16 squads are competitve and succesful.At minor they fail.There has to be a common deminiator????

Some one said here the same problem exists in camoige at underage.

Its so frustrating to see talent wasted.The thing about this is many in Cork wont see this as a failure.

The incoming CCB admin man wrote a piece in the paper last year that minor teams should not necessarily be judged on success but once they produce 2 minors for senior every year and that in hes case when he was minor football manager in 98 Cork had lost to limerick but 12 laters had produced a few senior all ireland medal winners and maybee the true success of a .minor team is judged 12 years later in what they achieved.

I find that hard to grasp to be honest.
But thats the view the new man in had last year.Is their much hope for change on that.

How will this management team be judged???

Cork have been there or there abouts in U 15 and 16, Arrabawn tournament etc but don't seem to bring it to minor.
In fairness when you lose in extra time you've got very close but from a Clare perspective we've seen the benefit of getting to Munster Finals. It means lads are guaranteed a QF at minimum which keeps the panel together and with exams over means coaches can work with the full panel on fast ground and improve their hurling. That's what makes semi-finals so important.

Thinkstoomuch

Hidalgo wrote: »

Cork have been there or there abouts in U 15 and 16, Arrabawn tournament etc but don't seem to bring it to minor.
In fairness when you lose in extra time you've got very close but from a Clare perspective we've seen the benefit of getting to Munster Finals. It means lads are guaranteed a QF at minimum which keeps the panel together and with exams over means coaches can work with the full panel on fast ground and improve their hurling. That's what makes semi-finals so important.

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Guys like Mark landers Fergal Ryan etc have been involved with those squads and know what their doing.
Landers would love the job.I cant see him being given the minor manager.

I think extra time can be a bad thing as it can make you look better then you were.Waterford had three easy goal chances in the first half and a goal dissallowed when a penalty was given instead and then saved.Cork should have been beaten in normal time.The Ref gave Cork all the breaks.

The fact we stayed in the game showed the characther and temperament of the lads but like all the minor and U21 games since 2010 there was crucial moments in the games where we lost. Not every close game i accept you will get the calls right but last night there was some strange calls made.
Take last Sunday up against all the odds we won and a huge part of that was JBM and co got all the big calls right.

Same as the 2011 munster U21 final we lost in extra time.Highligted more by the fact Seamus harnedy was on the bench that night but when Lehane who was clear as day was sick that night was taken off harnedy was not even used as a sub.Lehane was brought back on.

Okay Harnedy may not of been good enough to start with the 6 forwards ahead of him but Haughney a midelton man ,from the same club as a manager was used as a sub when harnedy was not.Cork were crying out for a ball winner,Haugney was not the best option.

I agree summer hurling really brings on the younger lads.We could have done with the extra two games at the very least and the expierence of playing in a full gaelic grounds as Limerick won.

grenache

Treble20 wrote: »

Would anyone on here have an idea what terrace Cork fans will be occupying for the forthcoming Munster Hurling final in Limerick? Thinking of buying tickets tomorrow but probably there's no designated end so i'll probably go for the end nearest the main road.

I reckon it's quite possible this game will be a sell out.lots of hype below in Limerick about the game and with their minors now in the final I'm sure their will be a big following for the Treaty boys.

Limerick fans will have the City End terrace. Cork will occupy the Caherdavin End one.

Thinkstoomuch

Horse84 wrote: »

Jesus that's some attitude to have. Ok he might have a point in how minor squads should be providing 1 or 2 players that are potential senior players however in counties like cork where a lot of our players are dual, winning at minor at either code surely influences which code they do decide to concentrate on. How many of those lads last night will hurling lose?

Also winning is winning, that mentality has been lost. Posters are right when they acknowledge the amount of tight games that have been lost in hurling at all levels.

Hurling wise I thought last night cork were more than a match man for man with Waterford however when it went to extra time I feared for them as a lot of those wford lads had tasted success at underage. They know how to win and fair play to them they 100% deserved it.

On another note any word back on how the development squads did against Kilkenny?

Michael Cahalane plays football and is definetly one for the future in hurlings.Exactly what Cork need.
Killan O Connor plays football too,as does Histon I think.I have not seen enough of them to judge them though
Cork beat KK in the development game.

All the work they put in is wasted when they get to minor though.

Thinkstoomuch

The Cork ladies footballers are playing clare tonight in the back door in Munster at 7.30.Cork should win it handy.

Id say Clare at all levels are sick to death to the sight of the Red Jersey considering the Senior and Intermediar teams in both hurling and football have been beaten by Cork added to the fact the minor mens hurlers were also beaten by Cork.

On separate note Alan Cadogan is meant to be in line to be called up the senior panel in the next few weeks.Good to see in that he definetly has potential.

JBM is cute too and thats the not reason alone id say.He only knows too well that Cadogan is a highly rated footballer and wants to get him in before the footballers get him.Whether it is enough to get him and keep him time will tell.With hes brother Eoin deciding to go for football,im sure Eoins advice will have a bearing on it.It was not enough to keep Cahalane on board.

He should definetly call up Jamie Wall.As of yet the Footballers have missed a trick by not using him,JBM should add him.

Jbm im sure does not want the Aidan Walsh scenario relived.Walsh never got called up with up the hurlers but since the footballers did call him,understandably so he has a sense of graditude and loyalty to them.

In relation to Wednesday night Shambles....as per the usal script Nothing in the papers bar a basic match report but no hard hitting criticisim.Pure lazy journalsim again.
No body asking any questions .Sundays win unfortunately will paper over the cracks.

Like i had predicted Kenneally wouldnt be heard of after the loss.I cant seem to find any interview with him after the game.For a guy that loved the radio after the Clare match,there has not been anything from him on why it went so wrong .

It will be same old story.Nothing will be said.It will be late October etc before we know it and chances are he will be ratfied with a new term.The clare game will be deemed progress.

Same with the U21 footballers looking for a new manager.I dread to think who may get the job.There were meant last week to set up a committe to appoint a new man but i havent heard anything yet.

In realation to the Hurling,JBM has no problem working with youth.Why not give him the U21 hurling job next year.He would certainly be able to double up in roles as the U21 championship wont clash with the league.Or else give it to Ger Cunnigham.


At least they can imprint their style on the young lads and develop them in a winning enviroment.JBM wanted the job in 2009 but was not allowed pick hes own selectors so he would not take it.
If had been given the role at the very least Cork would have had a munster title and contested an all ireland final.

Their is plenty of good coaches around but i cant see them appointing Eddie Murphy for exanple.So why not give it to JBM.I heard from a good scource that he will get a second term as manager next year if he wants it.Id say he would take it if which is unlikely Cork will have an all ireland by then.

So at least by working with the U21s he is making hes own job a lot easier.At the very least he or ger Cunnigham should have a role in the next U21 team.

Thinkstoomuch

Martin Duffy is the man in the Middle for the Munster Football final.
Normally a referee wouldnt worry me too much but this guy does.Hes display in the 2009 all ireland final was just awful.

He has done us no favours in Munster final either.Its hard enough to win in Killarney,but at the very least you want an even playing field.

CorkonianRebel

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

The Cork ladies footballers are playing clare tonight in the back door in Munster at 7.30.Cork should win it handy.

Full time Cork ladies 0-20 Clare ladies 0-8

It was 10 points to 6 at half time so they obviously pulled away nicely