Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think Jason Ryan did a fantastic job with Wexford. A manager doesn't have to win a trophy to be successful. I think Billy Morgan has had plenty of time as manager of Cork and he's been very successful. It would be better to go with someone fresh. The best managers in the game at the moment are all young. Look at James Horan, Malachy O Rourke, Mick O' Dowd. What's wrong with going for Jack O' Connor. If he is the best manger then we should pick him.
If you look at the Cork hurlers. It's widely known that the CCB did not like John Allen. He stepped down after serving his 2 years with Cork. He's gone to Limerick and has had alot of success with them already. I don't think Limerick people care that he is not a native of the county. I don't think Dublin care that Anthony Daly is not from Dublin either.

That is what we are trying to get away from,a manager doesnt have to win be succesful.Its about winning,nothing less.

Counihan was competive.Thats what we don't need.

There is a lot of managers,like ryan that played a blanket system ,that remained competitve.Has ryan showed anything that he can play an attacking game.No he hasn't.

I would not even have him on a shortlist

In relation to Allen,he has only won one munster title.I wouldnt say he has had a lot of success yet .Time will tell.

Who's going to fund it?the county board won't as their five year plan was built on already overloaded volunteers.

Age does not matter if you are good enough and in tune with the modern game,like Cody and JBM and Eammon Ryan.

Morgans age would not be a problem.

Stoner

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think Jason Ryan did a fantastic job with Wexford. A manager doesn't have to win a trophy to be successful. I think Billy Morgan has had plenty of time as manager of Cork and he's been very successful. It would be better to go with someone fresh. The best managers in the game at the moment are all young. Look at James Horan, Malachy O Rourke, Mick O' Dowd. What's wrong with going for Jack O' Connor. If he is the best manger then we should pick him.
If you look at the Cork hurlers. It's widely known that the CCB did not like John Allen. He stepped down after serving his 2 years with Cork. He's gone to Limerick and has had alot of success with them already. I don't think Limerick people care that he is not a native of the county. I don't think Dublin care that Anthony Daly is not from Dublin either.

I don't know as a Dub I'd prefer If our manager was a Dub, that said I'm delighted with Daly and I understand that he has experience that we don't have, I also know if the clare job was there for him he might take it.

Cork are not in that position they have decorated explayers

I certainly never wanted a non dub manager like micko or o'connor, you'd never hear the end of it, it's bad enough hearing that cian sullivans dad is from kerry every time he plays.

Cork have their own style, you guys are a unique people too and a local would understand you best.
I don't think Ryan was all that great at wexford, a couple of good games against Dublin, reasonable league form but the team has a standard modern generic look to it. They might have run us close but the dubs would have little to get them going against wexford no real history there.
What I did find strange is that everyone wanted a new manager in Cork, but there was no plan b, I would have thought that that with all the talk about replacing him that you guys had options lined up.

Archer3083

To be fair to Jason Ryan Wexford were never going to win an All-Ireland. For counties like Cork success is winning an All-Ireland but you couldn't expect Ryan to perform a miracle with Wexford. And also, he had to cut his cloth to suit his measure, he had to go defensive with Wexford to make them competitive. I'm sure he would be just as attacking minded if he had the players.
I'm not saying that Morgan's age is a bad thing. It's just an observation that the best mangers at the moment are nearly all young. Jack O' Connor isn't young but is a good manager. I just think Morgan has had two stints as Cork manager and that it's time to move forward.

ShamoBuc

Stoner wrote: »

I don't know as a Dub I'd prefer If our manager was a Dub, that said I'm delighted with Daly and I understand that he has experience that we don't have, I also know if the clare job was there for him he might take it.

Cork are not in that position they have decorated explayers

I certainly never wanted a non dub manager like micko or o'connor, you'd never hear the end of it, it's bad enough hearing that can only sullivans dad is from kerry every time he plays.

Cork have their own style, you guys are a unique people too and a local would understand you best.
I don't think Ryan was all that great at wexford, a couple of good games against Dublin, reasonable league form but the team has a standard modern generic look to it. They might have run us close but the dubs would have little to get them going against wexford no real history there.
What I did find strange is that everyone wanted a new manager in Cork, but there was no plan b, I would have thought that that with all the talk about replacing him that you guys had options lined up.

He had another year to run and I doubt if many thought he would just walk away.

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

To be fair to Jason Ryan Wexford were never going to win an All-Ireland. For counties like Cork success is winning an All-Ireland but you couldn't expect Ryan to perform a miracle with Wexford. And also, he had to cut his cloth to suit his measure, he had to go defensive with Wexford to make them competitive. I'm sure he would be just as attacking minded if he had the players.
I'm not saying that Morgan's age is a bad thing. It's just an observation that the best mangers at the moment are nearly all young. Jack O' Connor isn't young but is a good manager. I just think Morgan has had two stints as Cork manager and that it's time to move forward.

our greatest manager in the history of cork football ,still doing super work with ucc,won 6 munster titles,5 countys with Nemo,a club all ireland,four munsters in a row ,2 all irelands and 6 finals with a poor team in 07,it is just with all due respect rubbish to suggest Morgan is anything but a step forward.
And Cork under Morgan played good football.
Jack o connor is equal to Morgan,certainly no better.Yes he won three all irelands ,but from where Kerry and Cork come from ,far easier to win them with kerry.

Morgan has won 4 munsters in a row,Jack couldnt do that.

The fasination with Jack ,i dont see it.He failed to beat tyrone at their peak.

He is no better or worse than morgan,so it be madness to pay him to manage Cork.

Thinkstoomuch

Stoner wrote: »

I don't know as a Dub I'd prefer If our manager was a Dub, that said I'm delighted with Daly and I understand that he has experience that we don't have, I also know if the clare job was there for him he might take it.

Cork are not in that position they have decorated explayers

I certainly never wanted a non dub manager like micko or o'connor, you'd never hear the end of it, it's bad enough hearing that can only sullivans dad is from kerry every time he plays.

Cork have their own style, you guys are a unique people too and a local would understand you best.
I don't think Ryan was all that great at wexford, a couple of good games against Dublin, reasonable league form but the team has a standard modern generic look to it. They might have run us close but the dubs would have little to get them going against wexford no real history there.
What I did find strange is that everyone wanted a new manager in Cork, but there was no plan b, I would have thought that that with all the talk about replacing him that you guys had options lined up.

Never a truer word spoken.You banished the hyperbole myth about Ryan,and spot on,only a local would understand Cork football.

Congrats on last night,and the most sensible post on the manager i have read.

Archer3083

I still don't understand the logic that a local man will automatically be a better manager. Conor Counihan was a local man and he was still clueless. Besides, Cork is a big county. Counihan was from Aghada, and East Cork club. West Cork is the home of Cork football, and west Cork would have alot more in common with parts of Kerry than East Cork.

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

I still don't understand the logic that a local man will automatically be a better manager. Conor Counihan was a local man and he was still clueless. Besides, Cork is a big county. Counihan was from Aghada, and East Cork club. West Cork is the home of Cork football, and west Cork would have alot more in common with parts of Kerry than East Cork.

Don't compare every manager to Counihan.They deserve better in fairness.
My point is it doesnt matter where in Cork,your from,its easier to go to club matches in cork,if you live their ,and you don't have to be from west cork,as Morgan proved.Cork football has it's own type of player,only a cork man can get the best from them.Would Kilkenny go for an outside man,no,wouldnt even be considered.

You failed to address why Jack is a better fit tham morgan and why morgan isnt a move forward.Jack failed to beat tyrone in all ireland final.Tyrone are a coming force, and i certainly wouldn't be hopeful of Jack,beating Mickey Harte in an all ireland final.

Morgan was haunted by Boylan,a much better manager than Jack,but at least beat him in one final.
And who is going to fund the new manager?


This is pointless anway as any Cork fan close to the roots,will tell you its a Cork manager,a certainty at that.
It is a typical Cork response though to a simple problem,make it more complicated than what it is.

The money spent on a manager,should be spent on developing GAA in Cork

Archer3083

I never said that Jack O' Connor was better than Billy Morgan. I think they're both excellent managers. It's impossible to compare both men because while Morgan won 4 Munster titles in a row, that was at a point when Kerry were very poor. Jack has won 3 All Ireland titles from '04 to '09 (Pat O Shea managed '07 to '08), and was probably unlucky in '11. I'd just like to see an accomplished inter county manager taking charge of Cork. The names that are being mentioned this morning are Brian Cuthbert, Ronan McCarthy, John Cleary and Ephie Fitzgerald. I would seriously worry about the appointment of Cuthbert or McCarthy because both were involved with Counihan as selectors this year and Cork certainly did not improve in 2013. I think Cork have been alot poorer this year than they were last year. Maybe one of those four names might turn out to be the best managers Cork has ever seen, but they are untested at this level.

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

I never said that Jack O' Connor was better than Billy Morgan. I think they're both excellent managers. It's impossible to compare both men because while Morgan won 4 Munster titles in a row, that was at a point when Kerry were very poor. Jack has won 3 All Ireland titles from '04 to '09 (Pat O Shea managed '07 to '08), and was probably unlucky in '11. I'd just like to see an accomplished inter county manager taking charge of Cork. The names that are being mentioned this morning are Brian Cuthbert, Ronan McCarthy, John Cleary and Ephie Fitzgerald. I would seriously worry about the appointment of Cuthbert or McCarthy because both were involved with Counihan as selectors this year and Cork certainly did not improve in 2013. I think Cork have been alot poorer this year than they were last year. Maybe one of those four names might turn out to be the best managers Cork has ever seen, but they are untested at this level.

Sure Cork were poor in 04-07 and Kerry couldnt dominate munster.I agree with what you said about the candiates,but my point is Jack was a very good manager,not a God,and no better or worse than morgan,so it be mad to spent money on him,when morgan would take it.

I wouldnt read too much in to this year,as counihan had the casting vote ,and hes influence was heavily printed on the team.

Archer3083

I think we can all agree that Cork needs a good manager now, whether that's Morgan, O' Connor. The team isn't in that bad a position. The players are still good enough to win another All-Ireland, maybe more but they've been let down on the side line.

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think we can all agree that Cork needs a good manager now, whether that's Morgan, O' Connor. The team isn't in that bad a position. The players are still good enough to win another All-Ireland, maybe more but they've been let down on the side line.

Absoutley and while their was no certainty we would win more all irelands,what is a certainty,is we have a better team than what counihan picked,a team good enough to win in kerry,and give a much better display than a poor,15 minute came against Galway.

At least we have hope things ,may get better,with counihan we were getting worse.

At least ,he had the grace to go in the end ,unlike our minor and U21hurling manager,who believe they have a god given right to manage cork,despite results.

Archer3083

There is going to be a new challenge for the next Cork manager over the next couple of years. Cork will be dominant in Munster. Cork still have a very good panel of players but I think alot of Kerry players are giving just one more year. Tomás Ó Sé, Mark Ó Sé, Kieran Donnaghy, Eoin Brosnan, Aidan O' Mahony, Gooch Cooper, Paul Galvin and Declan O' Sullivan are all the wrong side of 30 and judging from the the league this year Kerry do not have players of that calibre coming forward. It will be interesting to see how the next manager will deal with that challenge.

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

There is going to be a new challenge for the next Cork manager over the next couple of years. Cork will be dominant in Munster. Cork still have a very good panel of players but I think alot of Kerry players are giving just one more year. Tomás Ó Sé, Mark Ó Sé, Kieran Donnaghy, Eoin Brosnan, Aidan O' Mahony, Gooch Cooper, Paul Galvin and Declan O' Sullivan are all the wrong side of 30 and judging from the the league this year Kerry do not have players of that calibre coming forward. It will be interesting to see how the next manager will deal with that challenge.

Their minors and u21 teams have been beaten by us down the years.The difference with Kerry is their managers at senior improve them,while our man held us back.

We should be beating them ,at the very least break even.Even if they win the all ireland,a lot of their great ,truly great players are going to retire soon,and they will struggle to replace them.

Archer3083

I think most commentators would agree that the Cork job is a far more attractive prospect going forward. I think the Kerry job is a poison chalice after this year.

If you look at the Cork team most players are between 24 and 28. Goulding, Sheehan, Hurley, Colm O'Neill, Paddy Kelly, Kerrigan, Aidan Walsh and Alan O' Connor still make Cork's front 8 a very formidable line up. Maybe another mid field partner will be required for Aidan Walsh but the big problems will be in defense. Alot of Cork defenders seemed very slow and flat footed this year especially Shields and Cadogan but I suppose it's hard to know if those players were carrying little knocks or injuries.

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

I think most commentators would agree that the Cork job is a far more attractive prospect going forward. I think the Kerry job is a poison chalice after this year.

If you look at the Cork team most players are between 24 and 28. Goulding, Sheehan, Hurley, Colm O'Neill, Paddy Kelly, Kerrigan, Aidan Walsh and Alan O' Connor still make Cork's front 8 a very formidable line up. Maybe another mid field partner will be required for Aidan Walsh but the big problems will be in defense. Alot of Cork defenders seemed very slow and flat footed this year especially Shields and Cadogan but I suppose it's hard to know if those players were carrying little knocks or injuries.

Great post.

I think a new manager will add a new energy to the team,they wont say it,but the players must known their miles,of the pace this year.Aidan walsh shared a flat with michael murphy and paul flynn and must of felt like the odd one out in terms of managers they had.

Eoin cotter,sean kiely,jamie sul,may all get recalled to the team.Rory o sullivan is a fine talent,and with gould deserves a chance at midfield.

Donal og hodnett,david gould must be called up.Gone should be kissane,o connor and pearse,Butcher, shorten,fitzpatrick,quirke ,o leary etc

Canty i would i keep on the panel.
But time for new leaders to appear.

Cork need to fine a balanced half back and midfield,and a game plan to get the forwards ball.But the players are their,a bit of tweaking,and with not far off the pace.We have the players to solve the problems,but counhihan out of sheer loyalty,and stubborness,and refused to try new players,and when he did,he never gave most of them a fair crack of the whip..

The_Kew_Tour

I would love Morgan back.

Just thought he would never take it again?

ShamoBuc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would love Morgan back.

Just thought he would never take it again?

I think Morgan would get them back playing a good brand of football and as such make them far harder to beat. Knowledge, experience etc... love for Cork football and 'hatred' of Kerry football and would command respect from the outset - he ticks all those boxes.
Would he be interested? I would imagine he would.He hasn't exactly been away from the game.
He was manager of Deerpark's football team when I was there and when he spoke, you listened.
I remember before one match, you could hear the other team shouting and getting all fired up - we just listened in silence and then he said " we don't need all that shít - just walk out quietly and beat them off the pitch loudly"

Amprodude

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would love Morgan back.

Just thought he would never take it again?

Dont know if he would be the right choice?

The_Kew_Tour

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I remember before one match, you could hear the other team shouting and getting all fired up - we just listened in silence and then he said " we don't need all that shít - just walk out quietly and beat them off the pitch loudly"

Thats great quote.

Archer3083

What is the process for picking the next manager? Do the candidates pitch their ideas and philosophy to the CCB? Are candidates short listed, then interviewed? Or will they just announce a successor off their own bat?

Thinkstoomuch

Archer3083 wrote: »

What is the process for picking the next manager? Do the candidates pitch their ideas and philosophy to the CCB? Are candidates short listed, then interviewed? Or will they just announce a successor off their own bat?

Morgan wanted to be involved in the minor set up,didnt get an interview,wanted the u21 job ,now but unlikely to get it.

He would take any job in cork,such love for cork,he refused to manage other intercounty team7.

This the funny part,who decides?Frank murphy and despite the spin doctoring and sub committees,and names they interview,purely for pr relations,it is decided well and truly in advance.

The county board,know who they want,today,but wont say it,they will say a job likes cork,deserves due consideration,and they will leave no stone unturned etc,and they cant rush it.

When they decide,the clubs can submit a name,but truth be told have as seen by the minor job,no input at all.

Cuthbert has it ,id say,as bishoptown like sarsfields are well liked by the board,and Bob hoonhan still has a big role at the club,and Cuthbert is approved by frank.Cleary could run him close,or be a selector.Their the only two realstically in the hunt.

In fairness he may do well,but the fact he is close to the board,is not great.

A minium two year term,then up for review.But if he gets it,he could very well be their despite results for a long term.

WhatNowForUs?

How old is Morgan

Thinkstoomuch

Amprodude wrote: »

Dont know if he would be the right choice?

Has had success at all levels with any team he worked with,and plays direct football.He certainly has the best credentials.Has broken records with Nemo and at intercounty with cork,that still stand today.

Thinkstoomuch

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

How old is Morgan

Close to 68,but in number only.He is still fit and fresh as a daisy.Eammon ryan,is close to that age,and doing superb work with the ladies.

yomtea98

So if we drop Kissane,O'leary etc who should come on to the panel and what team would you like to see as our first team next summer.

The_Kew_Tour

Amprodude wrote: »

Dont know if he would be the right choice?

I would take him if he was available.

He has great love for his county and he would always put team first.

Amprodude

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would take him if he was available.

He has great love for his county and he would always put team first.

Counihan had the same values but wasnt the right man for job. Morgan still lost more All Irelands with Cork than he won even with Corks glory years of the late 80's and who could forget 1993. It would be a step or two backwards. 2007 should never be forgotton and how terrible we were in croke park that day against Kerry. Took us a long time to get over. Good manager would not allow that to happen in an All Ireland Final. New approach needed with a successful manager outside county who is not tied down to bias etc. Just think Cork would benefit big time from this.

Archer3083

Amprodude wrote: »

Counihan had the same values but wasnt the right man for job. Morgan still lost more All Irelands with Cork than he won even with Corks glory years of the late 80's and who could forget 1993. It would be a step or two backwards. 2007 should never be forgotton and how terrible we were in croke park that day against Kerry. Took us a long time to get over. Good manager would not allow that to happen in an All Ireland Final. New approach needed with a successful manager outside county who is not tied down to bias etc. Just think Cork would benefit big time from this.

So, what outside manager would you suggest?

Amprodude

Archer3083 wrote: »

So, what outside manager would you suggest?

I mentioned already Jack O Connor if he was interested in the position? I guarantee you one thing he is ruthless and he would make Cork play football the way they should be playing it. He would get rid of the Cantys, Kissanes, Kerrigans, P O neill, A O Connor and Noel O Leary, all great servants but past their sell by date. Blood in a few new players. It couldnt be a bad thing. Fresh approach. I don't know if he would be interested in such a position but at the right price he would do it I bet. It's the CCB wizards that wouldn't allow it. Shame really!