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Cork GAA Discussion Thread
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Cadogan and Walsh ,like I said out for the Kildare match,playing a challenge next week.
Rutless cuthbhbert said he was.
We now face Paddy Brophy, a goal the last time,last year when they beat us ,and 6 from play of Ger Cafferky yesterday ,without Cadss,jamie sul is injured,and if shields is fit,such is our options that are thread bare,we start mcloughlin,we have no choice but to start him.
If shields is out we have clancy -a fine player but not a full back.
We face brophy,eoghan o flathery 1-2 yesterday and then tomas o connor .Not in kerry or dublins league but still a formidabble threat.
Also due to the shambles ,of dualism clancy may be taken from centre back,moved from pillar to post ,two different positions,require two different mindsets ,so how can the lad develop and become a key 6.
A jack of all trades,a master of known,like keith earls,wonderful talent,but between centre and wing,he never developed.And as he was exposed through the centre yesterday as the unit were far too loose,people will be fast to criticse him and the unit ,its not working.How can it??
I said this was shamble waiting to happen,and a few here thought I was harsh and I had a not clue what I was saying and just giving out for the sake of it.
Id love those to tell me what to we do next week???
If shields is out ,what happens if another of that unit gets injured during the game.We dont even have subs.
And this is against a team going for 6 in a row,won the o byrne cup ,a serious team,we must win our home games,a crucial game ,as its a huge ask to beat mayo.dub,and kerry away.
Tyroyne wont be easy at home.Derry ,i thought might be,but saturday showed different.
And kildare also will get ball as they will be a huge threat at midfield.Conway,cribbin,bolton,are a good half back line.
Mcgrilien versalite may start in the centre.
We now have to throw deane or laoire at the deep end ,as Cuthbhert knew that walsh would be unavaible yet he never gave deane or laoire a half against a westmeamth midfield that are nothing like Kildare.
People will be fast to criticse deane or laoire if have bad game ,where the butcher gets 4 games in a row ,yet the rest dont get time find there feet.
Woeful management so far ,they never prepared for the kildare game,by planning ahead.
Gould to start with sullivan,wait for it ,a man that doesnt know whether he is a half forward or midfield.
Its only february ,and now its show what a dissater dualism ,is.
Wait til July and cahalane is thrown in to the equation.
Id love to know what the cheerleaders dualism think of our team will be?
As I said before this isnt fantasy football,its the real life.Realism always shines throughJim galvin is laughing at us,fitzmaurice the same.0 -
Jesus Christ above will u chill out for your own good man. You'll give yourself a heart attack or something. Seriously like. Please
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Im chilled man.What I cant ask a question that many in Cork arent asking today?You would swear I was the only one against dualism.
I would recommend you look at other gaa threads here.
Simple question what team for the weekend
:|:| 0 -
We get it, you dont rate McLoughlin but there is no need to continually post on here critiscing him. I dont believe that he is up to the mark either but he's being picked so either he's doing well in training or else the manager doesnt have a clue. But there is no need for your constant critisicm of the guy
also, your player comments in your second post has him down as being fortunate to pick up some stray passes its as if the guy cant do anything right for you. You also have Cadogan down as having a solid game yet IMO Glennon had him in all sorts of trouble and won the world of ball off of him. You cant have it both ways.
All in all, just layoff the critisicim of McLoughlin it comes across as very petty. If he is as bad as you think they he will be exposed and replaced.
On the ball Slingerz!0 -
I presume Walsh and Cadogan are with the hurlers because the Limerick game should turn out to be a promotion decider. Not a fan of having as many dual players as we potentially do but like you say, whoever comes in needs to be given time, Kildare will be well up for it after beating Mayo0
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Michael shields out for a few weeks at least, certainly time now for Cuthbert to include cadogan in the team for sunday, all for experimentation but cork simply don't have any other full back options0
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Just heard ,an awful injury if true,he will be doing good to be back by the mid league..A huge huge blow to Cork,and with jamie sul,cahalane ,and cadogan availble for some games only we have real problems at the full back line ,and as back up.Gutted for shieldsly .
Totally agree and said what you said earlier today,and is practial and is realistic but that I doubt will happen.
The hurlers have a final challenge match the weekend so cadogan and walsh are set to play full game.God forbid,cads gets injured.
Hes touch with less hurling than walsh is way of he wont get it up to speed for the 15th so I see no benfit in playing him the weekend,and downes is out,and I saw quaid saturday against waterford and he isnt a great threat.
Limerick are fine 1 to 9 but bar mulchay have nothing up front in scoring power and james ryan,and co may win ball wont score,and I cant see them getting more than 20 points.
Cronin,sul,harnedy are out for cork,but horgan ,lehane can get big scores,moylan,farellcoughlan,,etc have scoring.Walsh has a lot of hurling done last year and will be a sub,and I have no fear there.
Cahalane and cadogan may make the bench.Cahalane will learn a lot from even being on the bench,colin o riordain ,tipp,played harty cup a few weeks ago also,played for tippereary the weekend.
Cian mac,heavy going is grand,but I hear michael sul,superb to break the tackle like darren sweetnaham is a real contender.We beat a strong tipp saturday in morris park,tippereary had more hurling done as they have been playing since the 7th of december and beat offaly,wexford,westmeath,ucc in a challenge,and lit,kerry up to that game,we had played just ucc ,and just back training recently.Tipp gave us a hard game,what you want.
Nash got two goals and limerick cant foul in 25 metres zone.
I expect limerick to start quaid,walsh,riche mac,carmndy,o brien,wayne mac,gavin o mahony,paul browne donal o grady with the awesome tom ryan in contention and a big threat at midfield if he starts.
From what I saw saturday ,they were poor up front and waterford never looked beaten.
Cork team to glay kildare is named tommorrow,ucc play carlow in the fitzgibbon ,and trinity in the sigerson during the week.
Fair play to the ladies a great win against mayo yesterday.
Cork minor hurlers panel cut to 30 friday night,and wasted no time,strength and conditiong the saturday.There preparing well.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Cadogan and Walsh ,like I said out for the Kildare match,playing a challenge next week.
Is this true? I thought Walsh said if the hurlers were playing at the same time as the footballers, he would play with the footballers (not too sure about Cadogan's position on it).0 -
There both definetly playing in a challenge match the weekend.I knew and said that was going to happen sunday eveining.They need games to get the touch in.Thats why its so diffcult.
We now face kildare with no recognoised 3 and clancy has to back.0 -
Watched sundays game a couple of times, mainly second half.
A few thoughts:
Its league so this is where to try people out. So a bit worrying that DOC had to come on and show how playing the ball simple and throwing it around to the man in better position can turn a tight game into a stroll.
Hodnett may take note, if he is to develop he must not be afraid to pass off simple ball, its not all about skyscraping points. Not picking on him, he had a good game, just he's one of the youngsters comin in that needs to see how a team should play. Alot of guys comin from the small pond so having confidence in your teammates is essential.
Half backs still holding onto ball too long.
Mccloughlin completely undeserving of the bias criticism he is getting here. Never got roasted. Given the new rules where tackling is limited he did an excellent job. other defences at weekend left in cricket scores.
Midfield is where fintan needs to be played, i think its unfair to keep moving him around. His mobility would be an asset in the middle and what a block down at the end of the match.
I wouldnt be worried if DOC isnt starting this time of year, leave the rest get experience but if he isnt in the starting 15 come crunch time i'd be concerned. Seems to be the only team player in our forwards, the rest seem to have a default setting of either take on man or look for shot, then comes the pass option and the play becomes laborsome. Our forwards need to think faster and lay off the ball alot quicker. We pulled away at our ease yesterday when we did.
Next week will be another learning excercise. Enjoyable so far.0 -
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This wont be the team that starts.My team would be hallorahan,crowley(be u21 after this week with others)clancy(not by choice,no one elese,whatever happens he is immune from any blame as thats not hes position and hes thrown in at the deep end)galvin
Loughrey ,Gould,shades o driscollwho came on the last day flanked by clancy,deane,laoire,o rourke ,collins ,hodnett,hurley,doc, goulding
There is an argument we need expierence and are short it at 6,7,8,9 so Gould is picked but he musnt be picked as a 10 or 12.He made a super block that saved a goal the last day ,if he got a run at half back he may be an option .He is being ruined to do a job ,hes simply is too indecisive,lacks confidence and conviction to be a top forward.He is at the stage,where he does not even back himself at times to score and plays the ball back.
He has fine talents in a good kickpasser,strong and robust and a good tackler.
Rourke and collins have vital roles to track deep and mark bolton,cribbin who will attack at every option.They both have the skills stamina and pace to do that do and hodnett is a super target at 11,mobile,strong,and a super range of passing ,and can beat hes man to get and create scores for hurley,doc,goulding.
Hodnett is the type that must be marked,so Bolton must stay with him,if bolton attacks ,let collins or rourke pick him up ,in that hodnett stay where he is just beyound midfield and ideal for the counter as a huge asset as a link man.
The best way to stop Bolton is to keep him occupied at 6.
Hodnett is very similar to Kilkenny of Dublin and the skills to play such a role.Hodnett is mobile but a similar build to kilkenny,you wont knock him of any ball.Remember he roasted kerry full back marc griffin in 2011 u21 munster final .
That would be my team and would give us a good chance of winning,crucially it gives us a chance to get players key game time against the daunting trip to dublin is next up,where dublin wont be in as much heavy training,and lighter on there feet ,and in full flow when we meet them with two wins after demolishing westmeath this weekend.
The problem is crowley will be lost as he is cant play the dubs as we have the u21 v kerry coming soon after.He is good enough to start against kildare .
We may have shields back for the Derry game .That clashes I think with a hurling game,so we may loose cadogan depending what he chooses.
On one point you cant truly compare our defence to other defences,as other defences had the likes of o gara,mannion,costello ,o donoughue,walsh ,flynn,o connor,brophy,flaherty.dillion etc to face.
Westmeath had only one real danger man heslin ,a top intercounty forward.Other counties had at least 3 better forwards than westmeath.
A truer test on sunday.Wertmeath were always the weakest team in the division.0 -
A rather strange view ,re Hodnett.He didnt get sky scraping points,just one in fact,but this notion he didnt lay of simple points,strange in that he had a direct hand in being the last man to give the final pass for a score at least on six occasions in hes very ist league game.The notion he went for all scores,hail marys is wrong,yes he had a wide or two but the majority of ball he got he unselfishly laid it off.
Whatever people may disagree with,i said its majority view hodnetts passing and link play was exemplary sunday .Its on tg4 tonight again the match.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »A rather strange view ,re Hodnett.He didnt get sky scraping points,just one in fact,but this notion he didnt lay of simple points,strange in that he had a direct hand in being the last man to give the final pass for a score at least on six occasions in hes very ist league game.The notion he went for all scores,hail marys is wrong,yes he had a wide or two but the majority of ball he got he unselfishly laid it off.
Whatever people may disagree with,i said its majority view hodnetts passing and link play was exemplary sunday .Its on tg4 tonight again the match.
Read my post again, i never said he kicked skyscrapers, i just pointed him out as young and new in the team and therefore in a position to learn. I was merely referring to guys taking the impossible shots, the hail marys, when others were in better position. One stuck in my mind was all where he could have given DOC a tap over in front of goal with a quick one two, instead he choose to take it on himself from a tight angle.
Seriously, spend more time reading posts more carefully and less time on the defensive. Criticising players is pointless but noting where improvement can be made is invaluable. Are you suggesting I have a vendetta against Hodnett just because you do that with other players?0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »[Brian o driscoll ,is a super talent u21 also.
When I see dorman,o driscoll,deane there ,there is plenty of talent ,i am suprised laoire is omitted ,but it is wise to get u21 lads involved before they go fully with u21 team.
]
Never said deane was u21.Any post I made ,never mentioned he was this year.We know he is overage .I named a likey u21 team month ago,deane wasnt named.
Kiely ian maguire are likely at midfield for u21.
I mentioned dorman,o driscoll,deane as reference to the subs listed ,and the talent was there.Considering dorman and o driscoll are adapt at midfield as half back,my point is they were wise to be involved ,as will be u21 in a few weeks.
Deane should be starting tommorrow in an ideal word with walsh,and laoire as a sub.That didnt happen so ,unlikely laoire and deane be subs ,as dorman and o driscoll could and have played midfield in there careers,and provide cover in a few aeras.
O driscoll even played corner back,too talented for there though and not hes best position.
It looked like you were putting Deane in the same bracket as O'Driscoll and Dorman.
You say O'Driscoll and Dorman could play midfield. Have you seen them play? You are totally wrong on this point.0 -
Just on Paul Galvin. Great player no matter what you say and delighted I was at his last competitive game against Cork in the McGrath Cup. When he came on, there was one Cork supporter who shouted abuse about his personal life. That was real scumbag behaviour. Thankfully he is was the only Cork supporter I saw like that on the day. It was great to see another Cork supporter put him in his place. He was no angel but bringing his personal life into it is worse than anything. No denying though he was one of the best players of his generation and we might have won a couple more all irelands if he was on this side of the border.0
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Im just debating a point you made .
You said that hodnett shouldnt go for skyscraping points and lay off simple ball.For a man that gets defenisve ,about me ,not a bias against certain players,when I criticise lads that even two posters said yesterday they dont rate our corner back ,who has had game after game -yet you critcise a lad that got man of the match by many ,and was simply majestic,in hes 1st ever league game yet you say he could have done more.
He got a point,made six scores,he could have done no more.And after making so may scores for others,fair play if he wanted to score and get some limelight.I admire high standards,its a shame you dont use that philsophy to judge more expierenced players.
Im not biased,but remarkably consistent with my views I want mcouhghlin and others to do well but know they cant ,have unlike you that judge hodnett in one game,judged them in loads of games last year and this year.Ill be cheering them on,and when they have a bad game ,yes I say it here,but wont be like other fans who roar terrible abuse from the stands ,when they are exposed.I will believe it or not be gutted for the lad ,and wont blame him that day,but management for picking a guy that hasnt done it.If mcloughlin has a great game against a top forward and holds him ,i will be the 1st to say well done ,and I will be happy as we need corner backs.
I dont do such abuse.What I do ,is straight,realstic assements.And this is purely as players.As it was quoted in todays papers in the the splendid Kieran shannon(a super writer),a great quote by loughanne,that you can have" as an indivudal outstanding personal qualites ,but may not be able to translate them in to a particular professional setting(ref to sean stack he was one of the most likeable and affable people you could meet ,is not the right man to manage clare.
By using loughanness theory ,i use that with mcloughlin and o sullivan and many other players and managers..Great lads,personally commitment wise. but as a 2 and 9 in the modern game,not what Cork need.j
You raised a point earlier ,that corks defence was the best all weekend ,in relation to others that yes conceded cricket scores .
Do you agree with my point that I clearly illustrated ,that westmeath out of dublin,kerry,tyrone,derry,kildare.mayo ,had the weakest set of forwards bar heslin and also the weakest midfield and half back line compared to the other 7 ,so they didnt get enough quailty ball to pose cork a threat in the second half?so I wouldnt be too excited that we just conceded a low score to westmeath.
And dont forget duffy in the ist half caused sullivan problems in the ist half ,and he is no where near what he will face in Mccauley,buckley or maher ,moran,the still under 21 dublin star shane carthy who was superb in hes debut against a top class unit,sean or colm kavanagh.patsy bradley,the two o sheas of mayo.You see im not being biased but realistic and openminded to see the challenges ahead.Honestly is o sullivan up to that standard???He after many games struggled against Duffy,yet a debutant ,still u21 was superb against quailty opposistion.See my point now.
Name one game ,that he has outperformed quailty like that in past games for cork please???
Im not biased at all but am realistic and go on past games.
How will mcloughlin who struggled against giles ,and westmeath left mcormack on the bench ,do against ciaran mcfaul derry,darren mccurry tyroyne,dillion mayo,dublins mcnemannon or cormac costello or mannion,or darren sullivan or o donughuhe of kerry or o connor or flaherty of kildare ?do do you think.
And would you start them in a Munster final ???
That what were gearing for ,remeber kerry in July.
I hope and want him to do well .Why?i want cork to do well.
But I have seen countless games,at club and intercounty wheres hes been exposed.Even anothe poster who thought I was harsh,said he didnt rate him either.
The simple reason I go on bout him is he is picked and when I judge a game ,i take that in to account.
What do you want me to say ,he marks mcfaul or curry not to even mention o donouhe another step up.He will do fine ,and then when he does bad ,critisce him ,like many others will do .
Not my stlyle ,and im sorry if that offends you but ,i judge on performances.And contary to what you said earlier ,the black card only means you cant be cynical,doesnt mean you cant still perform the art of good defending,
.I suggest you watch dublin v kerry ,where the excellent crowley showed a masterclass in defending
.And with the black card ,as much as you fail to see ,defending is more important than ever in the tackle ,as the days of poor defending and fouling the man to save a goal ,are long gone.That safety net for a corner back is long gone,so you must be a good defender to survive.
Doon and rochestown saturday at 1 in mallow ,and dingle and chriost ri in knockagree at 1.30 the same day.
Dorman and driscoll could play midfield ,with walsh as they have speed and football and intstinct.
O driscoll I have even seen in u21 games being played ,as recently as 3 weeks ago ,in a challenge.Dorman has played underage for bishoptown there and has the skills to play 5 or 7 or 8 or 9,not in the full back line.
A great post on galvin,i hold exactly the same views ,and gave a similar post myself .0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Im just debating a point you made .
You said that hodnett shouldnt go for skyscraping points and lay off simple ball.For a man that gets defenisve ,about me ,not a bias against certain players,when I criticise lads that even two posters said yesterday they dont rate our corner back ,who has had game after game -yet you critcise a lad that got man of the match by many ,and was simply majestic,in hes 1st ever league game yet you say he could have done more.
He got a point,made six scores,he could have done no more.And after making so may scores for others,fair play if he wanted to score and get some limelight.I admire high standards,its a shame you dont use that philsophy to judge more expierenced players.
Im not biased,but remarkably consistent with my views I want mcouhghlin and others to do well but know they cant ,have unlike you that judge hodnett in one game,judged them in loads of games last year and this year.Ill be cheering them on,and when they have a bad game ,yes I say it here,but wont be like other fans who roar terrible abuse from the stands ,when they are exposed.I will believe it or not be gutted for the lad ,and wont blame him that day,but management for picking a guy that hasnt done it.If mcloughlin has a great game against a top forward and holds him ,i will be the 1st to say well done ,and I will be happy as we need corner backs.
I dont do such abuse.What I do ,is straight,realstic assements.And this is purely as players.As it was quoted in todays papers in the the splendid Kieran shannon(a super writer),a great quote by loughanne,that you can have" as an indivudal outstanding personal qualites ,but may not be able to translate them in to a particular professional setting(ref to sean stack he was one of the most likeable and affable people you could meet ,is not the right man to manage clare.
By using loughanness theory ,i use that with mcloughlin and o sullivan and many other players and managers..Great lads,personally commitment wise. but as a 2 and 9 in the modern game,not what Cork need.j
You raised a point earlier ,that corks defence was the best all weekend ,in relation to others that yes conceded cricket scores .
Do you agree with my point that I clearly illustrated ,that westmeath out of dublin,kerry,tyrone,derry,kildare.mayo ,had the weakest set of forwards bar heslin and also the weakest midfield and half back line compared to the other 7 ,so they didnt get enough quailty ball to pose cork a threat in the second half?so I wouldnt be too excited that we just conceded a low score to westmeath.
And dont forget duffy in the ist half caused sullivan problems in the ist half ,and he is no where near what he will face in Mccauley,buckley or maher ,moran,the still under 21 dublin star shane carthy who was superb in hes debut against a top class unit,sean or colm kavanagh.patsy bradley,the two o sheas of mayo.You see im not being biased but realistic and openminded to see the challenges ahead.Honestly is o sullivan up to that standard???He after many games struggled against Duffy,yet a debutant ,still u21 was superb against quailty opposistion.See my point now.
Name one game ,that he has outperformed quailty like that in past games for cork please???
Im not biased at all but am realistic and go on past games.
How will mcloughlin who struggled against giles ,and westmeath left mcormack on the bench ,do against ciaran mcfaul derry,darren mccurry tyroyne,dillion mayo,dublins mcnemannon or cormac costello or mannion,or darren sullivan or o donughuhe of kerry or o connor or flaherty of kildare ?do do you think.
And would you start them in a Munster final ???
That what were gearing for ,remeber kerry in July.
I hope and want him to do well .Why?i want cork to do well.
But I have seen countless games,at club and intercounty wheres hes been exposed.Even anothe poster who thought I was harsh,said he didnt rate him either.
The simple reason I go on bout him is he is picked and when I judge a game ,i take that in to account.
What do you want me to say ,he marks mcfaul or curry not to even mention o donouhe another step up.He will do fine ,and then when he does bad ,critisce him ,like many others will do .
Not my stlyle ,and im sorry if that offends you but ,i judge on performances.And contary to what you said earlier ,the black card only means you cant be cynical,doesnt mean you cant still perform the art of good defending,
.I suggest you watch dublin v kerry ,where the excellent crowley showed a masterclass in defending
.And with the black card ,as much as you fail to see ,defending is more important than ever in the tackle ,as the days of poor defending and fouling the man to save a goal ,are long gone.That safety net for a corner back is long gone,so you must be a good defender to survive.
Doon and rochestown saturday at 1 in mallow ,and dingle and chriost ri in knockagree at 1.30 the same day.
Dorman and driscoll could play midfield ,with walsh as they have speed and football and intstinct.
O driscoll I have even seen in u21 games being played ,as recently as 3 weeks ago ,in a challenge.Dorman has played underage for bishoptown there and has the skills to play 5 or 7 or 8 or 9,not in the full back line.
A great post on galvin,i hold exactly the same views ,and gave a similar post myself .
Be realistic. They wouldn't do at all at that level. O'Driscoll and Dorman don't play there for their club or college. At minor or county level, I think Driscoll might have played once at midfield for the minors at most. The fact they don't play there for their clubs and won't be for the U21s, to suggest that they are options for the senior team is pure madness.0 -
Were you at any of the u21 games last year or recent challegnes?
He has went in there last year at times and two recent u21 games he was there.
He was up against deane ,tralee it ,and he was there as a midfielder win breaking ball and then deliver quick ball in to the forwards .
Kiely had swtiched with him.
Why wont he do as a midfieler.Please give me attrubites he doesnt have to do it rather than just say its madness.
Has he the power of walsh or ball winning no .Do we need two ball winners,not necessariy ,we need a groundhog who can win the breaks snipe at them.run at pace ,a guy that can see a pass(take hes pass the last day )he can score and he has superb engine and can defend.Very similar to cian o sullivan of dublin and he was a back first and foremost.Brian played the 1st game corner back for u21 and was moved out as hes instinct is to attack,not good in the full back line.We need a balance with walsh for july.
Dorman is big ,powerful but isnt a one trick pony and drives forward .Ideal for midfield,great hands.The really good half backs have all the attriubtes for midfield.He has superb passing skills.
He has played midfield for bishoptown underage.
It is realistic when I see what a modern midfieler is what that is yes dorman can play there.My first options would be deane or laoire.Deane is powerful but has the football.
Who would think be our best pairing for sunday ??
What team would you like for sunday.
Not playing there for club doesnt mean much in midfield compared to a natural full back .There you must have a deep understanding of the role.You command those around you.
At midfield,walsh is the commander ,so we must mix and match compliment him.Take the cork parternship in hurling,too alike,kearney and mcloughlin .The balance is all wrong and as twice in the finals clare proved that wont work .Midfield must balanced.
Hes manager at club is cuthbhert and he is needed at half back more for them and now chris o donovan joins them if it goes through.
Derek kavanagh never played there for club regualary ,but played there for cork as he had the attriubuttes for a role.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Were you at any of the u21 games last year or recent challegnes?
He has went in there last year at times and two recent u21 games he was there.
He was up against deane ,tralee it ,and he was there as a midfielder win breaking ball and then deliver quick ball in to the forwards .
Kiely had swtiched with him.
Why wont he do as a midfieler.Please give me attrubites he doesnt have to do it rather than just say its madness.
Has he the power of walsh or ball winning no .Do we need two ball winners,not necessariy ,we need a groundhog who can win the breaks snipe at them.run at pace ,a guy that can see a pass(take hes pass the last day )he can score and he has superb engine and can defend.Very similar to cian o sullivan of dublin and he was a back first and foremost.Brian played the 1st game corner back for u21 and was moved out as hes instinct is to attack,not good in the full back line.We need a balance with walsh for july.
Dorman is big ,powerful but isnt a one trick pony and drives forward .Ideal for midfield,great hands.The really good half backs have all the attriubtes for midfield.He has superb passing skills.
He has played midfield for bishoptown underage.
It is realistic when I see what a modern midfieler is what that is yes dorman can play there.My first options would be deane or laoire.Deane is powerful but has the football.
Who would think be our best pairing for sunday ??
What team would you like for sunday.
Not playing there for club doesnt mean much in midfield compared to a natural full back .There you must have a deep understanding of the role.You command those around you.
At midfield,walsh is the commander ,so we must mix and match compliment him.Take the cork parternship in hurling,too alike,kearney and mcloughlin .The balance is all wrong and as twice in the finals clare proved that wont work .Midfield must balanced.
Hes manager at club is cuthbhert and he is needed at half back more for them and now chris o donovan joins them if it goes through.
Derek kavanagh never played there for club regualary ,but played there for cork as he had the attriubuttes for a role.
Seen all the games last year. Didn't get a minute at midfield. No wasn't at the Tralee game find it strange they played him there. Maybe for that game but Cork U21s selectors will be looking at 4/5 for that position and he won't be one of them. If he was good enough to play midfield for the seniors he would be in there with the U21s as they are not overly blessed in there. Cuthbert isnt even looking at him for midfield.0 -
Totally agree on McLoughlin though. It is baffling at this stage. We are very light back there yet I dont think he should be there.0
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ALLIANZ LEAGUES: CORK SENIOR FOOTBALL TEAM V KILDARE 04/02/2014
The Cork Senior Football team to play Kildare in Sunday's Allianz League Round 2 game at 2pm in Páirc Uí Rinn will line out as follows:
1. Ken O’Halloran (Bishopstown)
2. John McLoughlin (Kanturk)
3. Tom Clancy (Clonakilty)
4. Conor Dorman (Bishopstown)
5. Brian O’Driscoll (Tadhg MacCárthaigh)
6. Fintan Goold (Macroom)
7. James Loughrey (Mallow)
8. Andrew O’Sullivan (Castletownbere)
9. Ruairi Deane (Bantry Blues)
10. Mark Collins (Castlehaven)
11. Donncha O’Connor (Ballydesmond)
12. John O’Rourke (Carbery Rangers)
13. Daniel Goulding (Éire Óg)
14. Brian Hurley (Castlehaven)
15. Donal Og Hodnett (O'Donovan Rossa)
Subs
16. David Hanrahan (Douglas)
17. Noel Galvin (Ballincollig)
18. Alan Cronin (Nemo Rangers)
19. Kevin O’Driscoll (Tadhg MacCárthaigh)
20. Micheál O Laoire (Naomh Abán)
21. Colm O’Driscoll (Tadhg MacCárthaigh)
22. Cathal Vaughan (Iveleary)
23. Paul Kerrigan (Nemo Rangers)
24. John Hayes (Carbery Rangers)
25. Barry O’Driscoll (Nemo Rangers)
26. Colm O'Neill (Ballyclough)
There are a number of changes to the team that defeated Westmeath on Sunday. Both Michael Shields and Tomás Clancy (Fermoy) are injured and will be out for a number of weeks. Tom Clancy moves to full back, and there are first senior starts for U21s Brian O'Driscoll and Conor Dorman, while Fintan Goold moves to centre back. Eoin Cadogan and Aidan Walsh are with the hurlers for the first time for the next two weeks, after which they will return to the football panel ahead of the game against Dublin on March 1st, and Ruairi Deane comes in at mid-field. Joining the forwards are Donncha O'Connor and John O'Rourke, while Paul Kerrigan is named in the substitutes.
There's good news for all Cork football fans as Colm O'Neill rejoins the panel, having recovered from a cruciate injury. Patrick Kelly, Jamie O Sullivan and Damien Cahalane continue to make excellent progress with physio Colin Lane and are on schedule with predicted return-to-play targets.
In the absence of Michael Shields, James Loughrey will captain the team.0 -
great to see Colm ONeill on the panel0
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Some fella on rebel gaa is reporting that richie power is close to moving to Midleton. Has anyone else heard about this?0
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Awful to have twice point out that I havent criticised Hodnett but merely suggested that he could learn more from doc than some of the other forwards. But sure whatever way you take your tea yourself.0
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@thinkstoomuch just on the selection of Dorman over Galvin,do you feel Cuthbert doesnt have faith in Galvin?
Not a bad team overall considering we're short so many already.0 -
Great to see Colm O'Neill back. Was there in Pairc Ui Rinn when he went down 11 months ago. All the best to him.0
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We have huge problems Sunday at full back.Kildare should have a simple game plan,break even,which they will at the very ,least get fast quick ball in to brophy,o flaherty and o connor theres scoring there.
Delighted in a way Dorman starts but,he is no Corner back.Amid the excitment and jubilation of a great talent starting,i am realistic that we now have two very attack minded players at full back with no real presence as our last line of defence.
Has Cleary watched any U21 games,he was poor there last year.
.I hope management understands the position he is in.Galvin cleary isnt a favourite with management ,while others are .
Galvin isnt getting a fair crack.Good in the 1st game,picked but then injured against kerry.Should have got game time against Kildare Wasnt even played as a sub the last day and blatanly overlooked.Cuthbhert is being inconsistent in treatment of some players.
Dorman a very good player is in worryingly position though.
You see Dorman is now in ,unlike others who had expierence and leadership in cads and shields ,and still couldnt do it , has no such protection and he has a fullback with no expierence or organisitonal discipline(not a slight on him,just as a full back) for 3 ,to guide him,in that he has to learn himself.Mcloughlin is the most expierenced of them yet he will be so busy he wont have time to think about anyone else let alone assist Clancy either .Huge responsibity now falls on Ken o hallorhan in that if Cork are to get anything of the game,with that full back line
(A)has to provide huge leadership,and be vocal in the unit keeping shape ,
(b)quite concievable he will at the very least have to make two or more saves in the match.
There is zero understanding or telephaty as a unit ,and Clancy ,when both corner backs are turned ,wont know whether to go out or hold back.Such is the quailty kildare have we could get a bad roasting .Clancy and dorman are fine players ,but could be made look poor,as the roles are contrast to there talents,yet play to there weakness.Dorman has no presence to help him settle,and clancy has enough to do without looking over hes shoulder with the corner backs.
Whatever happens Sunday Dorman must get a chance with cadogan as full back and can only be judged fairly on equal lines as mcloughlin had that luxury,if there serious about giving the guy fair game and if they really believe he is a corner back.Expiermenation is fine,i love to try new things,and I love open minded,but you cant be careless either for the sake of expiermenting.This is a crucial home game.
one great point was made in that our half back line are too slow at times delivering quick ball ,to the forwards.Like I said yesterday loughrey is head down,and that must be coached out of him.A great read in the sunday times with him by the way .
The other problem is not as easy to fix.Any unit needs time to grow,learn,and fluecy doesnt happen or an telephatic or sub concious reaction like understanding between all 3 ,can only happen with game time.
The problem like many problems with the team is made worse by dualism.You see ,unlike many ,i have remained constant in my views right from the start ,and when I said it would not work ,i had taken in account all factors in to the equation.
I took in challenge matches,like my post 5 weeks ago where I detailed every single match ,dates ,venues ,football and hurling ,waterford cup,mcgrath cup,league and championship,and possibilty of injuries,morale,the affect it has on of affecting stability like this week proves,with the breaking up of a unit that overall was good and would get better with game time together ,when I said dualism ,like le chin,baker,gavin said wont work.
Cork half back line cant be expected to improve the ball supply up front ,as its now broken up again with a new partner for kildare and will be trying to understand each other ,on top of adapting to the new game plan.
That is a problem that could be avoided with clancy at 6 ,and Cuthbhert walking the walk ,and ruthlessly saying cadogan stays.
Not even half a loaf is better than no loaf at all,in that have walsh but we keep cads,it is one way traffic to the hurlers.Cadogan wont in that hurling game strengthen cork but could actually weaken it as if they think one challenge game is going to bring the hurling up to speed,there in for a suprise ,as he has zero hurling done.Now both clancys have been taken out and we have a bran new line.I am glad gould is there,but unreal treatment of clancy,dropped after just two games.He played better than others.O driscoll is a super talent and yes he is good for Sunday but he wont be availble for dublin ,as we have kerry at u21 a week later ,so that unit is chopped and changed again for dublin ,and no cohesion in there or understanding.
Deane at last got a game .It is was a hand forced by management than a hand they dealt ,when you consider,never made the panel and got ten minutes last week and honestly if walsh was availble would sullivan be dropped,hardly.Deane is going to have to have a stormer to start for Dublin,as sullivan is nailed on to start.
Hurlers dont need Cadogan for the limerick game,the footballers unquestionably do ,as he is a leader ,a presence,and wont be roasted.
The other point is to get fast ball in from midfield you must have a lad that can kick fast ball and have the vision to see a pass and be able to kick diagnoal fast ball in to the forwards.So far we picked a midfield that cant do that ,but have the mindset of power -old style,static ,pass backwards ,lateral,side ways passing as they lack the innovation to make something to happen,and then crucially the basic fundamentals skills ,dubs and kerry have, to execute that final pass constantly.
Watching cork at midfield is like watching scotland backs play try to play open rubgy any my heart goes out to them.,
The intent is there,old values of power ,bash it up the middle,go through as we dont have the pace or sutllety ,guile or imagination to go around obstacles ,and the heart and endeavour you laud and admire ,but its like watching paint dry boring and predicatable and time consuming,and they may break one tackle,but the crucial final pass,is despairing and awful to watch.
Unlike our Celtic Cousins in the Scots that have the excuse this the best we got,we have much better options at 9.We have power in Walsh .We need craft and guile.
The Power game at midfield is past its sell by date.You must have footballers in there.
Heres two equations for midfield:
(A)
Power +Power=one dimenshon state ,static slow ball that makes very good forwards uneffective in the game.
(B)Power + Guile +Pace+Craft+Football skills=a devasting ,6 forwards ,unpredictable and extremely potent that are a serious threat for any defence in the country.And yes you may hold one or two forwards ,but you wont hold all 6.
Deane offers that sunday,he bulked up hughely.He offers so much more
He can kick a ball.Vital for a footballer.Were playing football,not handball,basket ball or sevens rubgy badly after all.
What we need is a footballer at 9,, that can and wants to win dirty ,broken ball,pace to help defence and attack,an honesty and desire to do a selfless role ,and the skills to move the ball at pace.Must have pace and stamina.Sullivan has a superb attuide ,a real work rate and is very commendable,but just lacks that ability to move the ball at pace.
I wish he could as he so honest and brave.IF kerrigan had the same attuide to match hes skill what a player he could be.
We have Deane but ,we still have sullivan,who is a poorer version of Walsh.For all hes critics,Aidan still got 3 points sunday from play.
The problem of slow lateral handpassing will be there the weekend.
The 6 forwards are the 6 I wanted.Credit due a fine unit.I said that was the 6 id start earlier today.A super balance of,paake,strength,athlesticsm,stamina,endurance,work rate ,Desire,leadership ,and a youthful exurbence blessed and guided by leaders and expierence in Gouling and o connor with huge scoring in that unit.
So in summary we have a full back line that has weakeness in every part of it,no presence or leadership.
Half back line is full of promise ,but totally new again as a unit .
Midfield ,a mixed bag.
A super forward unit ,may not get enough ball to shows it real potential.Expect Doc and hodnett to interchange.
The half back line will be under so much pressure helping that full back line,they wont get much attacking time,and that midfield will break even with kildare,but isnt set up to play fast attacking football.
The problem is Cuthbhert is setting one rule for some and another for others.
I said that yesterday before he said that,there was a blinded loyalty,just like counihan shown to certain players.Not good at all.
He is unbelievably loyal as shown in the 4 out of five games hes in charge to mcloughlin and. 5/5 to sullivan ,yet he is completely different ,in relation to Galvin,clancy ,etc
Its as clear as day ,mclouhghlin is a starter for championship.
Cronin ,isnt even getting a run at corner back.Not a great year by hes own standards compared to 2012,still good enough to earn him best club player in Cork team of the year award,held kilkenny superby 2012.He is small but jesus so is other.Is he the answer??
He is much better than the current starter.
Before people say im bias no im not.As Closeline proved,others can see what I see.And the reason I mention him,he is picked again,and I anaylse cork 1 to 15.
Jbm said no Cork panel announced for the league,due to injuries and dualism.Injuries are part and parcel,i suspect,dualism has a huge part in that.
Our minors hurlers have there panel of 30 finalised.That is minor ,but they know where and what they are at .That minor management have been true to there every word,they have had well over 15 challenges matches so far,checked out over 80 players,said they would cut it to 30 at the start of Februray ,and they did.
Great to see Colm back.He has such courage,and bravery and 3 times in the face of advertisy came out the other side ,and its like you would see in a Rocky movie,knocked down time after time ,yet gets back up and stands tall in the end.A super player,a super lad,owes cork football nothing,and even if there wont a sell out at the game,if he gets even a minute,expect such a Rebel Roar it will feel like there is 80 thousand there.
Not just cork fans but every gaa fan will be delighted when he takes the field again.A legend.0 -
Kildare will give any opposing team opportunities. Our backs are very vulnerable to pace and they can be opened up when they are ran at. Recent Cork teams always seemed to have a number of powerful direct runners and I would be concerned if this particular Cork team has a similar profile. I wouldn't be very familiar with some of the newer Cork players but that half back line looks to have a bit of pace. Loughrey caused us plenty of problems in 2010 when we played Antrim in Newbridge. Bolton is not a natural defender at centre back and Cork will create goal chances if they run at him.
The Kildare forward line has started the year well and this has masked some of our defensive weaknesses but there's always the chance they could have one of their twenty plus wides days out which we seem to suffer three or four times each year.0 -
FAO thinkstoomuch1:
Tomás Clancy is injured rather than dropped, I think.
Also, a bit extreme to be saying that Deane gets a game "at last". This is only the second match that he has been available for and he came on as a sub in the first one.0 -
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Hi Denis,
But sure we all knew Denis,that Walsh was going to be unavailable for the Kildare game.
Bringing on a guy in the last stages of the game,i think was a wrong call ,in that now he starts against a good kildare midfield,that will have Sean Hurley dropping back from midfield to win ball there.We seem ready to expierment in a crucial home game,,Westmeath was the time to do that .We have to beat Kildare,in that Dublin,Mayo and Kerry are very tough,now mayo and kerry lost they will target us.
Tyrone are a tough team .Derry you would think are the easisest team ,but they could hard enough to beat .You must win your home games,win and we avoid relegation Sunday probably.
He knew Sullivan was going to start for the next game,give Deane a half to settle in that with the greatest respect to westmeath,that midfield is not as good as kildare.
I hope Deane gets the same chance as everyone else ,and what ever happens Sunday he starts against Dublin and Derry and then judge him.And he deserves to be surely judge alongside Walsh.
He was not picked on the original panel .From what I gathered he certainly would have been avaible if required.I think he is up to this level.If he is not fair enough ,as we all want the best 15 to start
but my point like with others he must be given a fair chance ,like others.
If Clancy is injured fair enough,but still there could have been less disruption to that line in if Cadogan started,Clancy could have stayed there.
I rewatched that Kildare Mayo game ,and Paddy Brophy is going to take some watching.He is fast,strong,and can score anywhere within 40 yards.Flaherty and o conor are just as good and flaherty is there link man.
The Cork Forwards have huge potential,its the full back line and midfield will be key.0
This discussion has been closed.
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