Cork GAA Discussion Thread

thinkstoomuch1

Were 5 games in,today was the biggest test so far.Were are Cork at the moment.?

,As Cork football is such a valued commodity ,it deserves honest truths,not lazy ,just for the sake of it ,ink on paper anaylists as Decho brillantly made a point with tompkins article.
Nothing was learned from that only that like many in cork,ex managers great to anayalse but so ironic,they couldnt do it themselves .


Its ironic to hear Larry,say we shouldnt have to wait for ever ,and success can be instant ,the same guy wasted 7 years of cork football.Not all hes fault,the board are just at fault,for giving him that Eternity.
He went on about talent.We all know thats there.Wow super judgement.He never gave us any view on management etc.And thats crucial.He was correct in saying the old lads,great servants and ambaddsors for cork had to go .

Take cinneide excellent article ,when he explained in detail why cork could beat kildare and the role of mark collins who done everything cinnede said he would.Thats good journalism , the piece with larrys was telling us what we already know .

A good journainist is a guy thats honest ,and gives you info you dont already know.

Speaking of great reads by the way
A super article in the Echo friday,by Mary white in relation to ladies football and Elaine Hayes .Id recommend anyone read i.I always buy fridays echo and to be fair they have some great features in the past.I hope they continue with them.A super insight in to her work and Ladies football.White is always credit due raising the profile of our ladies.Fair play Mary.



We have the bones for a solid full back line,shields,cads,galvin,jamie sul,and cronin.We have cover if all are fit.Cadogan dulism strains it though.Kevin crowley is an option.

Halloran and hanahran are fine keepers.

Half back line has lots of quailty,loughrey,clancy by 2,cahalane,dorman and gould and brian o driscoll,he can do the same role as o rourke,if needs be at half forward,tracking back ,from forward to defence,and can score .


Midfield ,walsh is a certainty once jbm doesnt have 1st call.Deane,and laoire next up.Magire is young but then look at shane mccarthy for dublin.Should be in the squad in june and ,is one for the future.
Vaughan was super today and could play at midfield or o rourke if needs be.We have options.


Half forward line is full of talent,o rourke,collins,kelly if fit?hodnett ,vaughan ,kerrigan .


Hurley ,doc,goulding ,o neill in the full forward line.Kerrigan and hodnett can play in the fullforward line,Mac eoin is a real option as a target man.Huge commitment he has,always struggled with keeping shape,but that lad trains up to 3 times a day to get where he is today.A huge left peg.


People often say we have a huge squad as an old cliche,like last year we had a big squad but there was a lot there you couldnt start ,they just werent up to it .This squad I named we have huge depth in numbers ,and real cover is when the guy unlike last year is the replacement is as good as the starter.


The concern is its raw potential,Management holds the key to unlocking the door and turning this potential to intercounty stars capable of winning us the 8th title.


Like I said last week,hodnett,dorman,o driscoll ,magiure sugrue etc are gaining from playing top level colledge football under astute managers at college level .


A panel there of 27 lads aprox ,that has a good core there.

onlyway1990

thinkstoomuch, firstly i have a read a lot of this thread and your posts are excellent, cork gaa needs more of it.

I also agree wit a lot of the sentiment you have stated in your posts, as regard the defence and attack.

My point about midfield may have been lost a bit, i was not trying to come across as putting anyone down, it was that in a ball winning capacity one on one from my view, aos is better than deane and o'laioire,

i am of the opinion that you need ball winners midfield, this may be wrong and old fashioned but its just my view. I know you made the point that deane was cork club player of the year, and fair play it was deserved, but when you look back carbery were 5 minutes away from being knocked out by beara and his year could have been a lot different, ifs and buts i know.

i have only been to one cork game this year due to playing ball myself... look no matter what we still have the interests of cork at heart, and i hope none of us are wrong because that will result in cork football being the loser

sean mac

good informed debate lads, interesting days for cork but no doubt a great start by managmenent and a very hungry squad. Midfield is and will be an issue until we solve the partner problem for walsh. For me like tinkstoomuch perhaps both olaoire and deane would be ahead in the pecking order over butcher who is a ferocious worker but his kicking is poor, and importantly with this squad accurate kicking is going to be very important. Its clear that one element of the new gameplan is to kick accurately and quickly into what is a lethal line with whatever mix of: oneill, goulding, hurley, hodnett.
Delighted for noel galvin yesterday and alan Cronin who I think is a real intelligent footballer, playing wing forward in sigerson with ucc. The one player who I wouldn't be as gone on is loughrey - whole hearted, committed and very fit, but a little head down for my liking which was a major criticism of the previous half back line. The clancys, shields the youngest odriscoll all are better footballers in that they look up for whats on first, however I expect loughrey to start come championship - coaching and analysis will help him here.
If we keep them fit, keep the momentum and hit the summer with a partner for walsh and a definite full back line we will be hard to stop, simply because we will have a serious forward line whatever happens.

thinkstoomuch1

Good post Sean


I agree and hold the same sentiments regard louughrey ,a super athlete,and has it all but from being with Antrim ,and Corks style last year he got this head down,barge like a butt option.It makes him look worse than what he is.


Head up ,and it marks elgance in a player.Old habits die hard,it will take time.Come championship ,must be eradictded.Coaching must identify this as a weak aera,and by constanty being on hes back ,24/7 so to speak in trainin and repitition over and over again is the only way to eradicte it.


Its not as easy as people think just stop doing it.Hes whole tecinque and posture has to change a a bit in soling,no quick fix just time and effort.If two of us saw it management must also ,and with Ciaran sul,sexton ,as two very good half backs they must identify that.Very good management improves players.If loughrey does,its great on both fronts ,for the player and it shows we have a management team with the skills to identify weak aeras and also to help that player change hes ways.

I agree the forwards will score ,they key is that corner back slot and that perfect mix between attack and defence in the half back line and a partner with walsh .The best partners are always like in love,the ones that compliments your soul,not necessarily a pro type of walsh.


Take a look at irelands backrow in rubgy.Henry isnt the shining star like the other two ,but he compliments that unit superbly.
Deane and laoire have to be tested,but you can only do by giving them game time.Give them that.We havent seen them in many games,give them a fair chance or else take them of the panel as there wasting there time otherwise.


That game was good in we can go toe to toe in a scoring spree.Dublin is a step up.The last two games,were slumber and edgy by the dubs,dont be fooled ,there in heavy training and id say were all week,westmeath wasnt a worry.March ,and cork,top of the table clash,feet be much lighter and they will adjust the training accordingly and there will be a marked difference for our game.


Hopefully ,clanys at least one will be fit ,as dorman,crowley and Bod are unavailble.Cads ,i hope is fit.


You see most of corks problems we can control-cadogan with dualism is uncontrollable .As if he gets injured were in real trouble,as even if sullivan is back you with the black card Must have adequate cover in all lines,in this line we only do with cadogan availble all the time.


The huge worry is if it clashes with hurling what happens.Yes ,the football is 1st lark is spouted.To me thats a load of bo**ox in that i m not anyway confident that will happen.The fiacsco that ,conviently no one had the ba*lls in Cork to ?how when we were in dire need of a full back ,wasnt even on the bench in a Crucial league game at home all because he was hurling training is a joke.So much for an arrangement to suit all can be made.One training session he missed,hardly have a huge bearing saturday.


Why wasnt logic applied.Miss one of the midweek training with the football or all ,and do week with hurlers training,then play football in the match.Match fitness isnt a problem or touch like in hurling.He knows the football at this stage,hes job is to defend,he wont be doing any necessarily attacking drills.


Far from ideal ,i know ,but jesus it would have been better than yesterdays shambles .You see people will say oh we have gained in that two lads got games at corner back.Dont be fooled.


We could have still had cronin and galvin as starters .Dorman wasnt a full back ,so we learned nothing new in we know that from u21.Done well against a big man,but if he had anyone else could have been a different story .A real option at half back though.

Clancy is the same ,a super half back ,get away with it like dorman against Mcguckain,o gara,donaghy etc who are all big men.

Put sullivan ,o donoughue,brogan ,different scenario and there weakness at 3 is exposed.
There like cahalane at u21 last year.Fine to a degree,not a natural 3 and varley a footballer in every sense exposed that.It wasnt clearys fault he had no choice.

That same problem is with the current u21 team.Full back is a huge worry.I heard tj brosnan is in the hunt for there.Not a hope .


I wont be greatly upset if we loose to Dublin .
Once the right team is picked and we dont carry passengers.If cuthbhert and co want to carry passengers join an airline .
And once we put in a performance and keep shape and show progress.No one expects cork to win Every game,dubs are ahead of us ,more than larry realises.
Once we continually evolve is the key and improve with each game.

The expiermentation is over to a degree in that U21 lads arent avaible and we know enough at this stage who has it and who doesnt .
If management cant see that now it aint good.

A strong team should be picked for Dublin.I dont think they will not ,but if galvin and deane dont start then its awful management .I will be optimistic and say management will start them.Time for the need to be ruthless has started .They did do it hauling of mclouglin,must not start him.
And before people say give the lad a chance,he has numerous games.


The lads look fit and fast yerestday ,credit due to The antrim physical trainer.The speed works shows.


As for the u21 game ,BOD,dorman,vaughan must be full of confidence for that game.Ian maguire is flying with ucc.Sugrue and cads are flying.


Cox got 3 points for kerry yesterday.He needs watching.A huge month for cork football in March,dublin and u21 game .
Talking to a kerry man last night and there gunning for us and flying in training.A huge ,huge crowd be at that game.I Cant wait.

The_Kew_Tour

Cork football for the past 20 years has needed somebody in charge with balls and steal.

In fairness Billy had that but was maybe bit too loyal to players who needed the boot.

We need a bit of arrogance and cockiness. Never had that. Always gave too much respect to teams down the years.

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/02/07/hayes-building-game-home-away/

mr bungle.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Cork football for the past 20 years has needed somebody in charge with balls and steal.

In fairness Billy had that but was maybe bit too loyal to players who needed the boot.

We need a bit of arrogance and cockiness. Never had that. Always gave too much respect to teams down the years.

I always thought that arrogance and cockiness was something we have in abundance,according to supporters from other counties:)

ShamoBuc

mr bungle. wrote: »

I always thought that arrogance and cockiness was something we have in abundance,according to supporters from other counties

Sure what would they know...:pac:

Archer3083

There's been a little criticism of the fact that Walsh and Cadogan didn't line out with the footballers against Kildare last Sunday. I didn't realise til today how important the game with Limerick will be on Saturday. This year, the team that tops the group in Division 1B will automatically win promotion. So, the most important game this year in Division 1B will be played between Cork and Limerick at the start of the league campaign in the worst February weather we've had for years.


It really does make a mockery of the league system this year!

thinkstoomuch1

I think I have been the one that criticised ,dual players training instead of playing against Kildare.I stand 100 per cent with those views ,as the lads were training (a v b)match but Cork had a crucial game,a vital game against Kildare.

Yes limerick is a vital game in the hurling,i knew that and said for many weeks that was the case it was a league decider and still said take walsh but leave cadogan.


Remember,and people dont seem realise the kildare game was just as crucial to the footballers as the hurling is ,as its a home game ,and to win ,it nearly means we avoid relegation but head to a daunting croke park with huge confidence and belief.3 hard away games,two teams mayo and kerry after loosing two,are with westmeath in a relegation battle ,are now harder games to win ,stakes are higher.


Derry is a tough game.Tyrone ,are a huge threat to cork and now we dont have the physcality to bully them they will be a stern test for our new style.

Cadogan should have been on the bench for cork sunday.Am I a hurling or football man.Neither im a cork gaa man,love ladies and mens gaa,any grade,any code equal affection.

Cadogan would have been ideal for 20 minutes sunday.Yes we got away  with it,doesnt mean it was the right call.You see cadogan has little hurling done ,and hes wont bring anything to saturdays game,bar physicailty and leadership.But we have leaders with o neill,nash, mcdonnell.
In the football we had none in truth,a hughely inexperienced unit.

Keane will bring the same bit and edge and physicality to saturday and likewise colm spillane ,but both have been hurling at a top level with cit and ucc,cadogan has no games.Also spillane done good against tipp ,i heard ,keane against ucc that its awful to them they wont get a chance as caogan may start at 3.If he starts at 6,joyce who started at 6 against tipp last week and needs games and has more hurling and was super against cian mac in the league final looses out to a bit player ,hardly great for morale .When a mathmatican solves complex equations ,he breaks it up,in to many varibles.
Its the same with dualirm.People think you can do both without looking at in in many varibles.Its not just a case of take the field and pick up a hurley for Cadogan.The sooner people realise the complexity of the issue the better.We had a huge problem,we were lucky to get away with in the league.What happens when we get to championship or our league hurling quater final clashes with a key league game??

Toss a coin or draw straws??
People say football is the priority.How did management not think sunday wasnt a priority without 3 full backs,no recoginised 3 as a starter and no adequate cover.Okay injury cost us clancy but that and now the black card was always a risk in games.


Bottom line ,we have better options than cadogan in Hurling now.Jamie nagle ffs ,must have blisters on hes hole from sitting down watching cork,when the best defender,and real cut and aggression in the County championship cant get a game ,when Cadogan gets a game with little hurling done in a crucial game.


Walsh is different.Cronin and harnedy out,we badly need hes athletiscm,ball winning,power for gavin o mahony or wayne mac.HE has way more hurling than Cadogan done,and touch will be better than cads.

We had replacements for walsh sunday in deane,and laoire who should of started against kildare that could do a job and had played together as a succesful parternship with the winning junior team ,had an understanding and cohesion and telephaty the full back line hadnt. .We had no replacements in the full back line,a natural 3 to compound matters against a formidable kildare trio.We had natural midfielders though.



Barry o donovan had an excellent piece in the echo regarding the midfield and echoed my view,we must find the right blend for midfield.

HE had some interesting stats.Cork won most of there restarts.

In open play Andrew sul had 12 possesions,(2 shots at goal,one short,one wide ,kick passed 5 times,only two were accurate.

The other 7 possesions he handpassed ,and all were accurate.


Deane in contrast ,16 possesions,only gave it away onc,when he kicked a wide,kickpassed twice succesfully ,handpassed 13 times succesfully.Im surprised,i thought he kickpassed more.

What I noticed myself when deane handpasses its at pace,always forward ,sullivan is lateral and backwards ,slow old school Cork.



Also donovan noted ,deane made one huge turnover in the second half by just steeping up to put pressure on the kildare man with the ball.
He also said what I said sunday ,collins while he done well ,when moved there,it took away our threat with him at half forward.He also said,deane was more willing to try and break tackles around the midfield aera.

Again like I said it is baffling why laoire who can kick quick ball and win breaks wasnt used.
He said o rourke won a lot of breaking ball in the 1st half .

Walsh he was right like I always said is our main attacking threat ,and a partner to compliment him is the key.

In deanes ist start in the league or any game for cork was as the stats showed better tham a man with more expierence,played league in 08 and 2010,had four starts already ,including a full game against westmeath was outshone by deane.

That to me shows Ddmane must start with walsh against the Dubs and while bigger tests await ,he like I have said the last 3 months is a much better option.He may or not be the answer.Time will tell but time has clearly showed us Sullivan isnt the answer.

Deane has to kick pass more,he is well capabable of that as I have seen him do it regulary in games.


Before anyone accuses me of bias,a grievance or witchunt against the butcher,let me be Crystal Clear,this is No such thing just an observation backed up by the stats in that excellent article in the Echo ,that Deane was better sunday,hence sullivan was taken of.
And my view Deane is at just 23 a much better player,more potential to improve than Sullivan at 27 or 28.

I agree the scheduling of this game,and I said it in November was a joke,the county board cried wolf about the league changing they had no right to get ,yet something they had every reason to question the timing of this,considering cork had there holiday understandably late due to the Final in October have only being training since the 16th of jan ,a winner takes all clash ,not a whisper about the timing of it.

Archer3083

I was more getting at the scheduling of the game. I don't think Walsh and Cadogan should have missed a proper league game for a training session. I don't understand why Limerick and Cork would have been scheduled for this time of the year, and for the first game of the national league. Aren't we supposed to be promoting hurling. We all know Division 1B is weak. It will come down to Cork and Limerick for promotion. Why is it being played at the start of February in this muck and rain when it's so important. Also, the rest of the division's games will have a very hollow feel to them, because the top 4 will be included in the quarter final play offs. At least Division 1A teams will have a reason to play to the best of their ability in every game. And the teams that finish 5th and 6th in Division 1A will miss out in the play offs while teams like Wexford, Offally or Antrim will be included, probably more to thumbed by the bigger teams than give them any real sense of the step up in quality. They should revert to the old league format pre 2004!

Archer3083

Hey Thinkstoomuch, you're being very harsh on some individual Cork footballers, but you're probably right for the most part. Still though, you must agree that overall Cork are doing pretty well under Cuthbert. There are definitely more positives than negatives :-)

thinkstoomuch1

Harsh ,look I have said where I come from many a time.What I have said in relation to two players ,no one can deny that my concerns are justifed after sunday.This your being harsh is the same attiude Cork u21 have had the last 4 years ,and the same with minors just 4 all irelands th last 34 years,ah sure were fine,problems existed but do not criticise.

Ah a bit of luck is all some of our lads need on the day.

Archer3083

Cork have had 3 games in a lopsided McGrath cup, 1 game against a newly promoted Westmeath in the league and another against a Kildare team in pretty much the same position under new management and experimenting. Cuthbert is trying to institute a new style, and in both league games you could see where players were relapsing into the old Counihan style, head down, taking too much out of the ball by soloing and so on. It's a work in progress. It's all well and good to make observations at this time of year but there's no point being overly critical. You can't give a fair assessment of a team at this time of the year. As you get to the knockout stages of the league and the first games of the championship is when it will all get serious.

thinkstoomuch1

Yes there is postives like the attacking style,the plan to be spatially aware and the intro of hodnett,vaughan,drico ,galvin and deane finally and the picking of a super 6 forwards last week and the desire to play fast football and also Cuthbhert deserves huge credit for allowing players back to clubs between games .


My concerns are the dualism ,if push come to shove is he ruthless to make the hard call?time will tell


And next tuesday two weeks the picking of the team to play dubs will tell us a lot and if galvin and deane start,immense credit due for learning from past mistakes.Once a guy learns you cant ask for much more.The concerns I have with such inexpierence in the set up,will be eased by there abilty to learn from mistakes .

Also credit due to him picking the team every tuesday and not doing dummy teams.


Two wins so far so optism is valid,but there were home games.
we dont have to beat dublin,the performance is a good barometer of where were at.


6 games in ,ul,lit,kerry,dubs challenge match ,westmeath ,and kildare ,so its a good start.
I wouldnt be saying were a major force just yet .Away games will and tyryone game be huge tests.

The_Kew_Tour

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Two wins so far so optism is valid,but there were home games.
we dont have to beat dublin,the performance is a good barometer of where were at.

6 games in ,ul,lit,kerry,dubs challenge match ,westmeath ,and kildare ,so its a good start.
I wouldnt be saying were a major force just yet .Away games will and tyryone game be huge tests.

I agree with all that you said but what I left above is what I quickly just want to write on.

I think its going to tell us a lot how we get on against Dublin. Not expecting a win but I would like a very good solid 70 minutes. One where we can say that we can at least have a good summer.

The Tyrone game will also be interesting.It will be more interesting as firstly away from home, but will also see can Cork match Tyrone in physical department if need be.

Archer3083

I agree. I don't like the idea of dual players. In theory, it's a great idea. I think players should be allowed to do if they want but heavily discouraged. This wasn't a problem last year because Walsh, Cadogan and Cahalane all thought that Cork hurlers were going nowhere. Now they think they have just as good a chance with the hurlers. So, in some respects, it's the price of having a successful hurling campaign last year. I think the GAA should make it easier for dual players but they don't. Sometimes, hurlers and footballers are scheduled to play the same weekend which is ludicrous.

I think there are a lot of green shoots in Cork football. I recorded the Westmeath game and have watched it back a few times. I was very pleased with the first 10 mins and the second half performance. It's the first time for years that it's been a pleasure to watch the Cork football team. It was attractive but also effective. One slight concern I'd have is that Cork so far have been stronger in the second half against Kerry in McGrath cup final, against Westmeath and Kildare. This has been the case for many years. Cork teams have been guilty of slow starts and leaving too much to be done too late in the game. In fact, the year that Cuthbert managed the minors it was the same story, but I'm going to remain optimistic and say that I'm sure Cuthbert will get that right by the end of the league campaign and have Cork start as they mean to continue.

I'm looking forward to the Dublin game. I'd like to see Cork taking more goal chances. They didn't against Kildare even though they had plenty of chances, that needs to be improved. Also, I really hope that Cork do better than Kerry did against the Dubs. The Dubs have based their game on racking up high scores, particularly goals. If Cork can snuff out Dublin's goal threat then Dublin can be beaten, maybe not in the league this year, but it's something that every team will have to work on if Dublin are to be stopped of winning back to back All-Irelands. That goal threat needs to be stopped!

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/jbm-plans-rotation-policy-with-rebels-258474.html
I had said that last year re ,michael sullivan and colm spillane.
Great to hear jbm is going to give lads a chance.

I heard michael sullivan is going to start and if true its great .

I always have rated him ,and hes a work in progress as hurling a bit erratic and raw but hes fast,strong,great attuide ,loves dirty ball,great worker,breaks tackles and is brave and aggresive,not afraid to mix it ,ideal for limerick who will hit everything that moves and if it doesnt they will make it move.


Team named tommorrow night I cant wait.

The_Kew_Tour

Hope the weather improves for it.

Be a shame for the wind to play major role in what would be great game otherwise.

thinkstoomuch1

Tyrone game is in Cork ,but its a huge test to cork as besides Dublin we face a Manager in Micky Harte that has won minor,2 u21 All irelands and 3 senior titles with tyrone and has evolved tyrone time and again.


Cuthbhert is facing a huge test against a shrewd,astute manager and he will know cork inside out.
We had power ,in o neill,walsh,o connor ,o leary ,canty that caused them problems in the past,we now have to go around them,there a fast team, rather than through them and that will test Cork management to no end as ,during that game there will be changes that need to be made to win that game,and astute thinking is needed as they are a step up from kildare.


A good test for galvin or cronin in they face ronan o neill or in particular mccurry a huge and great test.Mccurry is evasive,fast ,nippy,a bag of tricks,great goal against mayo and strong and switches wings the whole time and looks for the ball.A night mare for them in one way ,but in another way the one the top corner backs and man markers relish, as its a huge challenge for them.

Brophy of kildare is very good,mcccurry is another step up in that hes young but more artillery to hes bow and the key to holding him to a few points(he will score)is having a corner back

That (a)is able to attack the ball,has the pace to get out in front of hes man most times,and also a corner back that must be able to turn on a sixpence as if you give him a yard headstart you wont catch him

(b)anticpiation and discipline and total concentration.

To be able to antipicate when to attack the ball or when to hold of but always stay goal side forcing him out away from goal rather than allow him turn and get inside you

Discipline not to make harsh and clumsy challenges but also to stay in hes aera ,and where ever he goes ,you go.He goes to the jacks you go so to speak.You must bes he shadow.
To do that for 70 minutes requires a special temperament,and a total focus.


So far we picked some corner back the lads were lacking in some or all of the above to start games .

Its early yet and dublin and derry to come but galvin and cronin are front runners.Cronin tendency to like the ball too much and as he plays centre forward at ucc,and club ,is a worry for a man marker in that hes instinct is to attack.
A defender or man marker first instinct must be to defend first and foremost.Galvin defends all the time.This is crucial and has never been more important the role of top quailty corner backs in that with the black card,cyncism is gone,and the game is all about pace,movement and space ,and you can not expect to even compete for an All Ireland with one weak corner back.


Cronin has the talent to be a top man marker but I believe for him to become that,he must sacrafice hes all out attack mindset as he tends to go too far up the field for a corner back,and that can and only will happen if he plays regulary at club as a corner back and not chopped and changed.


The other test is Grogan and kavanagh will test or midfield no end.See dublin with Mcauley,Bradley with Derry,Moran buckley with kerry ,O shea and gibbons of mayo are great tests just what you want.

You wont dominate then,there too good to dominate,break even and still be standing is what deane or laoire must do to start in championship.


Mcfaul derry,o donughe,shane o callaghan if he starts ,cox ,sullivan,mcnemannon,mannion,costello ,brogan are all great tests for galvin or cronin.

These tussles are great to look forward to,and while I agree you cant be too critical regards an evolving game plan and execution,that does need time,and the half back line as a unit and forwards need time to develop,cohesion ,telephaty,a synergy and deep understanding,and like wise at midfield in a parternship with Walsh,but at the same time it is perfecty fair and realistic to judge defenders or midfielders or forwards that cant perform the basic skills to intercounty standard,particulary those that have had plenty of chances and with there age profile and expierence taken in to account its the minium standard I would expect in them.


O driscoll,dorman,vaughan,galvin,crowley,deane,hodnett etc,have for example work to do but thats understandable as there young and inexpierenced but the point is they have all shown enough raw potential to be given that chance to improve.

thinkstoomuch1

The Limerick game Saturday is a huge game,no matter how people try and dress it up ,there is no way offaly or wexford ,let  alone Laois Or antrim are at the stage to seriously threaten Cork or Limerick as division winners.

Wexford may cause a shock,in that Limerick in wexford ,in a wet day,they could rattle them.Cork in Cork,they won't have a chance,and Offaly have a few hurlers but its tranisiton time,and it reamins to be seen If Whelanan is a good manager.Offaly style of footloose and fancy free,will suit Cork,Cork are a team that love and thrive on space  ,and Offaly will give them that.


If limerick had downes ,Breen  who can play centre back,Dowling and Downes they would be a huge threat,but without them and Hannon,they go in to battle without any heavy artillery and have a weak bench unlike the Munster final.

There front 9 is likely to be ,Quaid,walsh,riche mac,condon,,o brien,wayne mac,and gavin o mahony,browne and o grady,that team lined out in Mallow after the Ard scoil v hamilton game ,in such brutal weather.

They had plenty gutso,and no real weakness in 1 to 9 that day but its up front they dwdddwere poor ,and missed a load ,and in conditions that suited them ,they had no punch.


I dont think tom ryan is a half forward but they may start him.Hes pacey,fast and lots of hurling.
Jim bob ryan,mulchay,tobin ,and quaid are likey to start .Mulchay is the main danger and to a lesser extent Tobin.Two threats,Cork have cornes corner  backs without connor sull even well up to curtailing them.


The weather is going to have a huge bearing ,in even if its dry ,the ground with all the rain is like a bog ,and even sunday in the pairc,you could see it had surface water in the end ,and such testing heavy conditions,that fitness will prove important ,and a bench is crucial.

Fitness will be a factor ,but unlike Gaelic grounds ,in a scorcher of July,mobilty wont be ,in that in that the likes Of Cian Mac could very well do a job for an hour ,but in a hot dry day,the pace of the game like against Limerick in the Munster final and against Clare he was way of it.Cian is very much an enigma,in he has the attuide brave,good hand,can score ,has hurling,but for some reason hes mobilty is poor,and its like hes stuck to the ground
.You could start him and he would do a job Saturday,but hes unlikely to be a real option in the summer.As a sub maybe,but i think we have better options .He is a better sub than 3 forwards we had last year though.


My team would be Nash,o neill,Keane/spillane,Brian Murphy if avalible or mcdonnell,mcloughlin,joyce ,,spillane(if keane starts at 3)

Hauhney,kearney

Lehane,sullivan,Walsh,moylan,Horgan,Cadogan

Nash is fine ,and im sure with Riche Mac at full ,he will get a few chances from 20m free.

Keane is a tank of a man and full back would suit him .There is zero benfit playing him at centre back when he realistically despite what some barrs say he is far too slow on the turn,and immobile for the wide open spaces of croke park or thurles.Yes in a wet pairc rinn he looks good against jim bob ryan,in may in thurles,shanahan take him all over the field.


An option at full back.spillane is very much a contender,strong,and aggressive ,and has hurling and more mobile than keane.The only full back that held cussen in the county,as he didnt believe in hes overhyped reputation and tore in to him.For such a big man,cussen hates physicality.keane or spillane fine for quaid,as long as its not Murphy,o neill,cadogan or Murphy.


O neill and whethers it brian or killan murphy or mcdonnell well able for tobin.Shane o neill for mulchay.

Christy o connor said that Mcloughlin is a real option at centre back.I have said for the last year ,when i posted here in jan first,its hes position,a greater reader ,great to sweep up,good in the air ,and commanding and fast .Hes light but gets away with it at half back,at midfield way too inconsistent,a great game,average game etc,as hes too alike kearney and hasnt the strength in midfield .

Joyce, o connor is a big fan of and said he could be centre back if he improved by 20 per cent .You see he has the hurling,but swtiched between a midfielder and a centre back ,means he cant be a prescence,as to be that you must have confidence in your own abiltity,but you cant when the manager doesnt have confidence in you.Cadogan i say will start.He shouldnt.Joyce is good under the high ball,and while not slow like keane he hasnt the pace for midfield.He has the hurling.


Egan has the hurling,far too inconsistent,and temperament questionable,as a man in hes 4 th year ,should be a real prescence but far too inconsistent ,and in ucd u ul,he way below the standard i expected.Drop him,and it could be good for him,he needs a wake up call.


Kearney-played a half forward for Munster got two points,and has it all for a modern midfielder,pace,stamina,grit,fast hands and can score and a great engine and link man.Should be match for browne.


Haughney give him a chance.Hes has the hurling,fast hands but im hughely reserved with hes attuide,and tempermanent in a wet heavy night,and against o grady,who will be physical and ideal test for him.I have seen him dominate at minor,go missing in games and also u21.Yes he had a fine club season,but Naughton had fine club seasonst,very fast hands,lacked that grit and edge.Look at the lads that he faced,roche,murray,for example are fine club players that are loose hurlers,but wouldnt be known for having an edge or aggression he will face in lester ryan,padraig walsh,buckley,fennelly,colin ryan,o grady ,maher ,moran etc.He has yet to face a lad with a bit of ege and steel.
Macgregor of Na piarsaigh would of been a real test of steel ,but he was injured and couldnt start the semifinal.


Thats my worry is he just a talent with unfilled potential or an Intercounty player..He deserves the chance.An ideal game to test hes attuide.At this level attuide is a Must.It comes from within.


Lehane,be fine,on fire and is stronger and is a complety different player that was taken of against them in july.He was a boy,then,hes a man now.Could be a real danger for o brien or o mahony who cronin had in real trouble in the munster final,but if we isolate him on wayne mac,he could do real damage.

Michael sul is ideal to man up,throw the body around,make the hits,win ball and track back and help midfield.A real potent force at the breakdown.Remeber hes goal in the fitygibbon against ucc in the final pouring rain he got the equalisng goal,as he threw the body and head in where many wouldnt dream of.

Has the stamina to last a full game in heavy going but the mobilty to move around the park and interchane with walsh and a target man for Nash and takes the workload off walsh.He should be told to concentrate on breaking tackles with direct forceful running and making space for lehane and co.He tends to shoot on sight and hes accuracy isnt great.He doesnt need to ,with walsh and lehane and horgan,moylan we have plenty to score.Needs to be given a defined role that suits hes strengths..


Walsh may take time to settle but he will win ball and can score and has abilty to break the tackles and run at the heart of limerick will create space for the full forward line.Has a good delievery also.

Moylan had a poor game against Clare in munster and never got much chances,but was super when used as a sub against clare in the all ireland final with a peach of a goal,and simalir to paudie sul in hes robust,strong and creative ,and can score goals.


Horgan needs to keep moving and drag riche mac out from goal at every opportunity and create space for moylan,cadogan and lehane to run in to .He became a real leader last year,continue and he will be fine.Riche mac would love nothing more than cian mac ,a heavyweight duael on the edge of the squre.With 20 to go maybe,but not to start with as ,he would suit riche and is mobile enough to roam and drag him all over the field.


A bit of a risk,but i would start cads,as he new to limerick and o farell has had a mixed bag last year and like egan must fight for hes place.
He is tough,abrasive,great touch and can get goals and points and a man for the big occasion and goes looking for the ball and a super work rate off the ball.Coughlan isnt a corner forward so not an option here.

Coughlan ,o farell and cian mac,and Michael Cahalane (needs time ) are viable options as subs and limerick dont have the same bench.Even if the league is changed next year,Cork must win this game ,as its a league final in reality and cork for confidence must start winning finals as they have lost a league,munster and all ireland final.That loosing habit must be broken ,and no better place to start than saturday,and such is limerick are weak up front and on the bench its not great for confidence if we loose to at home to an understrength Limerick team


That team i would like to start,id say it wont.I can't wait for the team to be announced tommorrow eveining.

Cadogan,o farell,cian mac could all start,hard to know who the exact team would be .

Orizio

if Eoin Keane would get destroyed at center-back, he would get destroyed at full-back just as quickly. This isn't the 1960s.

Orizio

Any idea if I'll be able to stream the match this weekend lads?

thinkstoomuch1

I would totally agree re him as centre back.Full back ,the evidence dosent back up argument.The rock was a fine full back , never the fastestest ,and in hes latter years he lost another yard ofpace but was still fine as a full back,as he had a great reading of the game and used hes body well.

In near the goal in a small confined aera he has less space to command isnt as turned as easily and can stand upright and tall ,and use like most full backs do there physique as a weapon.Very hard to go around keane ,in small confined spaces.Hes a physical full back too.


You dont have to go back to the 1960s ,for examples of full backs that couldnt do it as centre back but done it as full backs despite not much pace.Donal og grady wasnt fast,slow enough ,was a solid full back.

Ger cushe won an all ireland in 96 wexford as a full back.Hardly fast.Put him as a centre back,not a hope.


Brian lohan ,in 1995 and 1997(not the 1960s by the way)had little pace ,but he was one of the greatest full backs ever and even survived the 95 final with a torn hamstring even.Why,he never strayed far from goal ,and any ball that came to hes zone he won.


Go back to the last few years ,Hickey was a super full back,but slow enough ,but great reading and hurling and the fact he stayed close to goal.He got burned yes by niall healy in 2005,3 goals but the rock held him as he stayed close to the goal.And corbett in 2010 got 3,,but twice in how many years.Hes record is imperious.
A

If keane was nimble and light and still slow yes he wouldnt do.But the fact he is strong under the high ball,is tough and isnt afraid to use hes body and stand tall means he could do a job at 3,as he forces defenders away from goal,and espiceally with two fast corner backs you get away with it.


Spillane would be my choice for 3 but keane is a better option than the rest .I would take keane any day over o neill,murphy,mcdonell,Cadogan ,Ellis etc.


Centre back and full back are very different positions.The majority of good full backs never made it at centre backs.You dont have to be fastest man ever at centre back ,hogan ,proved that but you cant be slow either.He wasnt .Centre back you have a much bigger aera to command and pace is a bigger issue than full.

You see its the reason why a player is exposed at centre back is the issue.If its just pace then ,there is another poistion for him.

If it was because he couldnt get catch a ball for example ,then he couldnt do either ,centre or full back though.This as you know isnt the case.


A full back that is forceful,and strong under the high ball ,a presence that has hurling ,in which Keane has ,if they have a good reading of the game can do a job in the modern game.Yes its all about pace at midfield etc but your not as exposed at 3.Liam Lawlor is hardly fast,but he was a presence.


Now i am not saying,keane is a lohan etc,far from it,what im saying is he has skills suited to that role.Pace,and fast hurling,cork had in there last year,not worth a f**ck as i said all year in that we needed a presence a dominant figure.We had neither.


Its the same with Pa cronin this year hasnt the pace for example to play midfield or half forward.Like declan ryan with tippeary and brian cococran,in hes latter years still can do a full forward role ,as he brings the others in to the game,and can score.Has the hurling and hurling brain to do it.So while he wouldnt have the pace ,for midfield etc,it would like in keanes situation be foolish to dismiss him for a more confined role else where pace isnt a big issue.


No links unfortunately ,not allowed do them due to a goverment law it was posted .

thinkstoomuch1

MUNSTER FOOTBALL TEAM FOR M. DONNELLY INTER-PROVINCIAL SERIES 13/02/2014
The Munster senior football panel for the M. Donnelly Inter-provincial semi-final between Munster and Connacht in Tuam at 2pm on Sunday next, February 16th is as follows:

Corcaigh (11): Mark Collins, Ruairi Deane, Daniel Goulding, Brian Hurley, Paul Kerrigan, James Loughrey, John McLoughlin, Donncha O’Connor, Barry O’Driscoll, Ken O’Halloran, John O’Rourke
Ciarraí (13): Peter Crowley, Shane Enright, Michael Geaney, Mark Griffin, Brendan Kealy, Barry John Keane, Jonathan Lyne, Anthony Maher, Brian McGuire, David Moran, Aidan O’Mahony, Marc Ó Sé, Donnacha Walsh

Banisteoir: Ger O’sullivan (Corcaigh)
Roghnóir: Ger O’Keeffe (Ciarraí)
The team will not be announced until just before the game on Sunday.


Always going to happen ,considering ,the other four counties wouldnt release players.
Deane made it well deserved.All bar 3 deserved to make it on current form but the options are slim in fairness without the rest.
Very noticeable Deane made the panel though ahead of Sullivan .Picked on the Cork Club team of the year out of position,junior team and excelled,tralee it team,there most important player ,last week,the front runner to start against Dublin.
Thats four different teams he was picked to start by different personnael .Its unanimous hes rated by most .

Hopefully he will start with Moran or Maher,two good players and hopefully one of the o sheas start for Connaught.


The sigerson cup cit v ucc should be a good game in a few minutes.
Cit with Cork sub keeper hanahran,kerrys kilkenny in the corner ,eoin byrne ,Peter daly at centre back,they have a good defence.I would have had a worry with tj brosnan in the corner for pace against Geaney or in particular cox who got 3 points the weekend.Quinlvan is the real danger man also.Byrne has a big challege.However brosnan is not starting,rory o sullivan is ,Cork u21 capt in the past ,and junior last year,more at home at centre back or midfield than the corner.I wouldnt be shocked if he switched with Peter Daly.


Ucc have problems at full back also and Hodnett could cause Eoin mahony real problems with Vaughan in that line also a real danger and tircky opponent for mcnanarma.They should start john corkery as the other player in the unit ,instead of Hegarty,have real scoring.Cork u21 and senior players.

Corkery v maguire would have been interesting.

Half forward line of cit ,james walsh,a strong and mobile man with intercounty expierence for kerry and on the panel,and david tracey senior with limerick will have a good battle with Dorman and healy ,dorman who should be able for walsh is the key man in that unit.Both will do shifts at midfield i expect,it to be crowded.
Tracey will test healy and i wouldnt be suprised if brian o driscoll was moved back there.


Midfield ,is key,nation and maguire against James o sullivan a kerry junior and keith o connor.

Maguire is a great ball winner but can kick and see a pass and is mobile,but O driscoll and nation may have to help him for the breaks as walsh and tracey will be in there to disrupt him.



Cronin and connolly in the ucc half forwards have pace,cork u21 players in the past and is a test for daly and finn.I will be interested in daly who is a good defender.


I would fancy ucc to win it with morgan on the line ,hes expierence should help ucc ,i wouldnt be suprised with the heavy going if it was close though.Having said that Keith ricken is a selector with CIT.

Orizio

Diarmuid O'Sullivan was plenty fast, and certainly a lot quicker than Keane is. Nevermind the fact that he was a superior hurler in every facet of the sport as well.

thinkstoomuch1

Sully was hardly fast in 2008 or 2010 and wasnt cleaned for pace in the semifinal.


,i never said that keane was better than lohan or the rest etc,sully in that regard,but that you dont have to be blessed with pace to be a full back.Has keane the reading or hurling of the Rock, i doubt it,but he has the same,cut,bite and steel robust frame to be an obsacle for any forward.


He was severly injured ,and that affected hes pace,so it will be interesting to see if he gets to that level again.

He is a much better option that cadogan,or ellis has way more sharpness to hes hurling,in cadogans case he wnt get to keanes level as he has football to contend with.


Also keane and fair play to him,made a crucial decision to quit the football,and is giving himself 100 per cent chance to make a full recovery from a serious injury unlike Cahalane will do ,and for that alone is a much better risk than cadogan,cahalane,who have no chance of working,and also than mcdonnell,murphy,shane o neill and killian murphy who arent natural 3 and also is better than mark ellis who hasnt the hurling for it.


Spillane has always been my choice,keane is next .Who do you think is the best option?


Jack sheehan isnt yet ,but i would like to see more and i hope ul get to the final to test him.I will go to ul v lit next wed,if i can to watch him.


Ucc won,got the early goal,quinlan is a fine forward,target man but lots of football.Had reagan of nemo in a lot of bother.Once they got the goal and lead,cit were never going to catch them.


Ian maguire was excellent and sean kiely was very good,move the ball well,and he is a realistic partner with him at u21 level.


Cronin very good and was creative,very wizardy ,and connolly had a good game too much pace for daly and finn.

O driscoll was good and has great energy and all the skills you need.Dorman,vaughan,and hodnett a good goal were very good and five cork u21s with vaughan ,driscoll,kiely,maguire,and corkery who was lively when he came on(should of started)are all in good form in the lead up to tralee which is good news.
Ucc could go all the way,maynooth are a big danger though.


Cork ladies play monaghan in mallow sunday at 12.30 and i dont get to go many of there games,i will go sunday.Great there playing in mallow again.Should be their home ground for a lot more games as they deserve to play in a great complex and with the clya ,liscaroll and rockchapel etc players mallow would get a big north cork and duhallow follwing at there games.

Horse84

The Cork Senior hurling team for the opening game of the Allianz Leagues v Limerick on Saturday night at 7pm in Páirc uí Rinn will line out as follows:

1. Anthony Nash (Kanturk)
2. Shane O’Neill (Bishopstown)
3. Stephen Mc Donnell (Glen Rovers)
4. Kilian Murphy (Erin’s Own)
5. Stephen White (Ballygarvan)
6. Christopher Joyce (Na Piarsaigh)
7. Mark Ellis (Millstreet)
8. Daniel Kearney(Sarsfields)
9. Lorcan McLoughlin (Kanturk)
10. Conor Lehane (Midleton)
11. Cian McCarthy (Sarsfields)
12. Rob O’Shea (Carrigaline)
13. Patrick Horgan (Glen Rovers)
14. Aidan Walsh (Kanturk)
15. Stephen Moylan (Douglas)

Subs
16. Darren McCarthy (Ballymartle)
17. Colm Spillane (Castlelyons)
18. Eoin Keane (St. Finbarrs)
19. Eoin Cadogan (Douglas)
20. William Egan (Kilbrin)
21. Paul Haughney (Midleton)
22. Luke O'Farrell (Midleton)
23. Brian Lawton (Castlemartyr)
24. Michael Cahalane (Bandon)
25. Alan Cadogan (Douglas)
26. Michael O’Sullivan (Tracton)

Jimmy Barry-Murphy and his selectors have named an experienced team for Saturday night's clash, with ten of the starting fifteen having also started the All-Ireland Final Replay last year. There's a senior hurling début for dual player Aidan Walsh, while Mark Ellis, Rob O'Shea, Kilian Murphy and Stephen White also get starting positions, the latter pair having come on as subs in the All-Ireland Final replay.

Conor O'Sullivan, Seamus Harnedy and captain Patrick Cronin remain on the injury list.


That's a half back line that wouldn't inspire confidence. Mickey sull deserved a start in the forwards too imho.
Jamie coughlan not involved at all?

thinkstoomuch1

Poor team ,woeful calls in key aeras,will elobrate later.have any lessons been learned.

zetecescort

I'd imagine Walsh would move out to half forward with Lehane moving in.