Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Archer3083

Don't do it! It's too short a price

ShamoBuc

Archer3083 wrote: »

Don't do it! It's too short a price

I don't think it is for a team 1/3 to win, only 8/11 on pp.


Sometimes the weather can play a huge part in ht/ft bets. Weather is quite good today and I see Cork wanting to stamp their presence on this match from the off.

It simply adds a bit of interest for me - too early in the season for any big bets.

Horse84

Wel the last 2 years have been very good outings at the start of the league in pairc ui rinn with Waterford and tipp, just hoping for more of the same. Think a lot of people have come to see Walsh in action, myself I think they may be expecting a bit much. He alludes to this himself in the interview he gave in the echo or examiner that was linked. There'll be a big crowd down from kanturk surely anyway:)
Does anyone know what's up with Jamie coughlan not being involved?

thinkstoomuch1

Great eveining,cold but brisk ideal for hurling.

Bottle,heart guts,balls,bravery wasnt much good to the Great Michael Collins when he was set up for an ambush and picked of at ease.The enemy knem he's route,knew what and when he was doing what he did.

Its similaqg last year,Limerick had been set up last year for an ambush,clear as day,and Allen practially told all and sundry how Clare could be beaten,should of by Galway in the Wednesday before the match,yet Davy kept quiet,waited in the long grass.It had zilch to do with old limericks falings of mindset ,and bottling like in past years,they were set up to fail against Clare.The mindset and never day attuide was second to none,but reminded me of Cork under COUNIHAN,had tremendous resilence,character ,never gave up on the field even like against the Dubs and kerry many a time ,beaten before they start .


Limerick have O grady tonight.Him and Allen as managers,no comparisson Apples and Oranges.
Our bench may see us home,but we could very loose this.

Ucc wasnt our only game.We played Tipp two weeks today in Dr morris park behind closed doors in a wet windy night,won by a few points.

Limerick played tralee it,clare,laois and the last game two weeks ago loosing to waterford where the same 1 to 9 started in Mallow.
You can still anayalse a team indivudally and in key aeras even though its the 1st game of the season,and i agree not a lot to go on to a certain extent.

blowitupref

oops

ShamoBuc

blowitupref wrote: »

Well done to Castlebar a fine win for them, not for the first time club odds didn't make much sense. Some start by Vincents, Ballinderry on the ropes and will have to recover quickly. Marty Duffy after his Connacht final performance shouldn't be allowed to ref this game.

Cork is big.....but not that big...:D

Archer3083

I'm not entirely sure how big an indicator tonight's game will be in terms of future success. Remember last year's relegation teams in Division 1A contested an All-Ireland final. So, it's really anyone's guess but at least both teams will be trying tonight. It is a serious game afterall.

Horse84

Pitch is looking well

ShamoBuc

Cork 0-09 v 0-06 up at ht

thinkstoomuch1

We should win with the sending of however wont in slow heavy ground be an impossible task like the munster.Very poor we are ,but should win if we use the bench.

Walsh isnt getting a ball,like i said nt a full forward.O shea having a stormer winning breaks around the middle but we had no half forward then.Lorchan outmuscled at midfield but now with the extra man is deep and cleaing up at half back.White everything i said he would be,aggressive but poor clearances and average.Egan having a good game,and joyce but mcloughlin has to be 5,and take of white ,and bring on spillane for ellis who is being beaten.


Walsh has to go to 12,o shea to 9,horgan at 14,and roam ,alan cadogan at 13 ,spillane at 2 or 3,or keane at 3,, o neill who isnt a full at 2.

Were poor .and everything i feared with the team is being shown up.We should win if changes are made.Cian mac is okay but not imposing.Michael sul at 11.

Archer3083

Why did Graeme Mulcahy get sent off?

ShamoBuc

Just over 7000 at it, not bad at all, especially with the weather lately and munster playing in Musgrave Park

thinkstoomuch1

Bad enough walsh at 14 now lehane.

Cian mac or horgan.Lehane aint a 14.

ShamoBuc

Lehane and Walsh now both off the pitch.

ShamoBuc

So, Cork draw...0-17 v -0-17

Cork were doing well fro most of the 1st half and then Limerick really got going. Despite going down to 14 they started to fight hard for the ball - and Cork let them. Dowling started to score heavily and in the end got the draw with the last puck of the game.

Limerick showed a fantastic amount of spirit and resiliance and deserved at least the draw. They will take a lot from this match - Cork played well up until the sending off and they were fairly bad playing against 14 and will take more questions than answers from tonight.

The_Kew_Tour

Limerick will be much the happier tonight.

thinkstoomuch1

I said this could happen,we never made changes fast enough.No point blaming ref for a poor last minute call,we have only ourselves to blame,couldnt beat 14 men,managent like i said all week picked a wrong team,made the changes far too late in most cases.


Huge blow cork as not good confidence couldnt win another big game.Report i will do later.


Cadogan was superb like i said and michael sul also.

Hughely dissapointing.Lost it on the sideline.

Archer3083

I wouldn't be that impressed with either Limerick or Cork tonight. Limerick will obviously be the happier when you consider how they finished the game, and getting a draw when they were down to 14 men, but that was a terrible start by Limerick. It was a pretty intense game throughout, but I think it's still one of those early Spring games that may not have a huge impact on the rest of the year. It's still only February for both counties!

yomtea98

Walsh was awful. Half back line cleaned. Ellis, Egan, White, O'Neill all brutal. Joyce very bad. Lehane and Horgan on fire in the first half but died off in the second.Very disappointing display

SeaFields

Froze myself for that display. The first ten minutes was a masterclass. After that I spent the rest of the game with my head in my hands in frustration. A half forward line cleaned out. A defence that gifted frees again and again.

Must Do Better.

ShamoBuc

Wondered why the extra man was not put into the half forward line ,instead they used him to put more ball down on a defence that was dominating. Our defence might have been better off going man for man- our attack could have done with an extra man.

Archer3083

To be fair, it's hard to expect Cork to be that great in their first serious game of the year. I watched bits of the Waterford v Tipp game and Tipp were under the cosh for large parts of the game against the team expected to be relegated for the umptine year! Walsh impressed for a 10 minute spell before being subbed due to injury. That was promising for his first senior game. At least he showed some glimpse of potential. There were many other positives outside the first 10 minute display and that might be more down to a poor Limerick start than a good initial Cork performance. JBM was honest and dignified as usual afterwards. I'd say he tore strips off them after the game. One interesting point made by John Gardner and Daithí Regan on Setanta was that Cork had no game plan or overarching tactics. JBM fielded a team that has the freedom to play off the cuff so to speak, while on the other hand Limerick were heavily drilled so that when they went down to 14 men it didn't phase them because they had a plan in place, besides Dónal O Grady's possession based hurling game was perfect for a 14 man team.

Archer3083

The danger with putting the extra man up front is that you actually help the opposition by having too many bodies in a crowded space. It's better to have room for forwards to make runs and use the ball, but I take your point. The extra man was hopelessly used. Even JBM said that. Cork simply didn't know how to deploy the extra man.

ShamoBuc

I wondered why the spare man was used in defense - we were doing okay there. It was blatantly obvious that the limerick defense were on top and were out muscling our forwards. We've had a problem with our half forward line for a long time and given Lehane and Walsh were both gone I thought our forwards needed more help. An extra man under the dropping ball to pick up a break or two could have made the difference. I would have liked to have gone for it that way than the way we did - or at least tried it for 15 - 20 mins.

We looked fantastic at the beginning of the game and no one would have given Limerick a sniff of a chance at that point and they then went down to 14 but Cork allowed Limerick to take over through a combination of bad tactics and quite a number of poor performances. While Limerick proved themselves to be combatitive and Dowling unerring from placed balls - they shouldn't have gotten near us.

It will be very interesting to see the 'backlash' from this cork team - a much improved performance and a bit more 'bite' wouldn't go astray, interesting times ahead.

Archer3083

Last year before the Clare game in the championship Seán óg Ó Halpín wrote that famous article which was very critical of JBM for some obvious reasons and for some personal reasons. John Gardner and Diarmuid O'Sullivan were more veiled in their criticisms. After that thumping of Clare, it seemed to be lets get on the bandwagon with JBM. He's brilliant, it just took some time to click and the team is still in development and evolving. It would be nice to know how much emphasis JBM really places on the league.

Also, it would have been nice to see some further development in the Cork team from last year. I'm not saying it had to be something new. I would have been happy to see some evolution, an improvement on last year somehow. It might have been nice to see Aidan Walsh at midfield, or the half forwards winning more ball and turning and running at defences, and conversely maybe dropping deep to force short puck outs from the opposition keeper. It would be nice to see something like that tonight, but it kind of looked like pretty much the same as last year from Cork, and we all know that wasn't good enough in the end. It's early days though, it's the first real game, you can't be too harsh. Tonight was probably as much about blowing off the cobwebs than anything else.

thinkstoomuch1

The key to any game before a ball was thrown in is often the Thursday night,the naming of the team is announced.,as you know have you a realistic chance of win,i said it during the week it was a poor team picked ,saw limerick team,and i said i was very worried with the game,and changes had to be made fast to win it55 minutes and 60 far too late,limerick had momentum ...you thinks thats bad ...take a minute..deep breath ..f**king outlandish that a half back line totally dominated,never had changes made and average strong tanks of men in ellis and then white lack the hurling,guile and poise for intercounty hurling.We went 25 minutes without scoring,we had some forwards but no ball.


This isnt Millstreet v ballygaravan ffs,elite intercounty ,where any weakness is exposed and espiceally a team with O grady involved in.It was said here,we had a strong team,we would win by 5 or 6 points.We had no such team.Strong me hole,decent team as John Horgan correctly said ,and thats being kind i believe.A world of differenb.e between "strong"and Decent.

I said if limerick had downes hannon,breen hickey etc,would beat us by by a few points ,it wasnt a great team.
We were so poor in team picked there second team ,in some aeras nearly beat us,drew with us with 14 men.People will try and blow this over as not a big result,be realistic in essence taking everything in to the equation a castrotropic performance tonightand bar horgan,would have been in real trouble.

Some fans may say  and have already started ah is only february,sure no relavane really,dont worry,and blow of the cobwebs.Sorry now Take of the blinkers with respect,and i mean no disrespect to anyone,but limerick knew it was huge importance and had hunger,intenstiy and will,picked the best 15 to win,we never did and were a shambles as a team,no spine,but indivaual displays.As proved time and again and in the Crokes football game even at club level,indivuals rarely win games,Team that play as a team regulary do.Im sorry but this its glass half full is complete b****xand use excuses ,when Cork are a stage we must be winning these games. People say were training since the 16th only.Yes that was a hindrance but jesus c***st ,dont deviate from realistic facts,we had home advantage,had 15 men ,and had a much stronger panel than limerick,we didnt pick them.Like i said at half time the extra man is negated in such heavy ground ,and it wasnt a certainty for us to win,thats why it was Fundamentally crucial we made changes and use the bench,as 14 v15,wasnt like last july in a scorcher ,that it was a certainy 15 men would win.Limerick had like i said would have intensity ,immense credit due to them,controlled aggression most times,hit everything that moved,what did not they made it move .And they had the players to .it,but with hurling from 2 to 9,a full back,and a balanced midfield,we had neither.Those that think im harsh,watch that match again.

A must win game,as we have won nothing,disastous for a team that needs to win final,create a winning mentality and a real belief,lost 4 finas drawn two now.Against a limerick team with one marquee player,mulchay sent of,yes we had 3 forwards out be we had a bench they didnt,had an extra man ,and Limerick have now a superioty complex over us,beat most that team 2011u21,beat us last year,drew but against all the odds the real winners tonight ,and also beat Cork at minor and Schools level ,have a huge mentaitly over cork hurling ,and dont fear cork teams but relish us.Cork fear limerick teams.

The league was the real winner in essence ,as meaningless ,run of the mill games against antrim have huge significance now as huge scores must be put up,as scoring diff come in to play and Cork dont have the lenicey to try many lads now as every game has it consuences  .Antrim and laois,bad news for them as cork and limkerick,will need high scores and have to Target the games, take the lead of bonus points in 4 tries in rubgy,in that goals,goals are key in getting huge scores and conceding no goals also,for a huge scoring differenceg

Wexford may be our saving grace,could rattle limerick in a swamp wexford park,but should keep limericks scoring difference low.We cant control those games ,control the controballes,tonight we f**cked it up badly and missed a golden oppurinty.
What does dont look a gift horse in the mouth mean?

The answer cork display against limerick.


Nash was excellent,assured,composed,varied puckouts,as i said before cant be blamed if halforwards dont win ball.Don't shoot the messenger lads.He had a poor Cian Mac to aim at ,and Rob o shea isnt a aerial ball winner .

O neill very good at sweeping,winning breaks great covering,aint a full back,time and again he failed catch clean ball,dowling won a lot,should of got a goal,no presence at 3.keane,spillane set up.O neill hurled a lot of ball as limerick played two man full forward line,so before and i hope  People become dont become  dreamers and say we have a full back,no we dont.Better than mcdonnell would have been,a saving grace he didnt start,wasnt a loss ,but a bonus to us.Kilkenny have no full back,but at least there trying a man michael walsh that could be one,they will evolve.Two years in,and were fu**king absymal and static  at 3,as were not trying others at 3,not going to tried and trusted ,but tried and failed.Management 100 per cent to blame for not seeing the need to change.If downes was there we were up **** creek without a paddle.Huge concern the managment and some people cant realise 3 is STILL A HUGE PROBLEN ,AN NO TEAM HAS WON AN ALL IRELAND IN 28 YEARS WITHOUT A BALLWINNING,PRESENCE,LEADER IN THAT POSITION.WATCH OLD MACHES,GER CUSHE,ROCK,LOHAN,HICKEY,CURRAN,,DENIS WALSH .NOEL SHEEDY,CONNOR HAYES,MAHER,CODY,KINIHAN EDDIE O CONNOR,the list is endless.
In fact the poorest of all full backs was our own richard browne in 1986 was an average 3,but we got away with it ,in that Galway made two crucial errors
(a)played a two man full forward line,johnny crowley go man of the match as the ball Browne couldnt win he sweeped it up and cleaned it up repeatedly.
(b)connor hayes who was become great in 87.88 etc wasnt played at full back for them,and silvy linnane was ruthlessey exposed,We got four goals.Cryil farell credit due learned from hes mistakes and Galway won in 87 and 88.
Cork havent learned in two years,what worse is the FAILURE TO RECOGNISE IT ,BY GREAT AND ASTUE MEN IN JBM AND CROWLEY .

Egan was immense at corner back and then at wing back,dropping him had the desired effect.Superb out of position.


Killan murphy ,super,a lot of loose ball,brian murphy may retire,a huge loss,future great at corner back though.Any worries ,no ,once they dont ruin him and try and make him a 3.Corner backs rarely make full back,they learn the trade yes there but there natural 3 mainly.

Ellis,awful,complety out of hes depth,Beaten time and again and made a woeful foul at a crucial time to give away a soft free.Aimless,hail mary full of grace,please god the ball hits my forward.Sorry now lads he isnt up to it.Ross cashman looks like an all star compared to Ellis.Superbly toned,a beaufiul, beatuful body,and athlete(endurance wise)but lacks the hurling and pace for it.Dropped in the full back line the last ten minutes ,made look good with the extra man.Not up it,i said it all week.


Joyce the best of that unit ,won some ball,good delivery ,but average,and i said that could happen but how in the name of god could he be our Top Gun,with two wingmen that had there feathers well and truly clipped and were like rabbits dazzled with a light,and they would face much better half forwards than tonight.Tom ryan was okay,not a half forward but made them look poor.Hannon,breen,noel mcgrath,kelly ,ryan would have a field day ,in truth.


White like i feared lucky not to get sent of.A rash challenge he made.Aggrestion ,if controlled is great,but sheer wild ,headless tackless are not on.Won some breaking ball,awful clearances,long high,gather the snow from the sky,and next time ,jesus can i hit the stars the next time.A forwards night mare,cant deliver Head height accurate ball.I admire hes gutso,energy ,lacks the hurling,would even struggle and has at intermediate level.Why oh why wasnt lorchan left there,or spillane used.


Kearney,worked hard,great effort,poor shooting but had no help with lorchan dropping deep.Much more in him with the right partner,like a great woman in a mans life,makes a man as she brings out hes good side.


Lorchan rarely finishes a game,and he is superbly fit and has endurancne,but he is battered,and outmuscled like waves slowly but surely eroding the rocks ,and is made look poor at midfield.Please.please.,please jbm play the man at half back whdmre he excelled in knowlan park last year and for patches tonight where he played deep and for CIT also.Cork wont win the all ireland with him as a midfielder.

Lehane was okay but hadnt much ball,due to woeful delervies.People said he was a huge loss,when he went off,he wasnt as he was moved to full forward where he would be inffective against a below par Riche Mac tonight.

Cian mac,same old ,same old.Like i said would get two points etc but the same old weakness come back again,on a night that should of suited him,was poorer than i actually thought he would be.Michae sul covered more ground,chased back more,won more loose ball than he did in 15 mintutes.A great point,forceful running,like i said should of started,and at half time i said should of came on.This was a game made for him.Woeful call by management.


Rob o shea ,superb,attuide,fight,bottle,super touch,a great debut,won lots of possesion at centre field,then moved back  to 12 despite limerick having 3 there,not a ball aerial winner or a realstic option when harnedy ,cronin etc come back,but could make a superb midfielder,has to start with kearney next saturday night.Lots of hurling,superb debut.


Horgan,unreal,what a leader,our man of the match,showed and wanted every ball,terrific points,has truly turned a corner from this time last year.Thank you Patrick Horgan.


Walsh-did i not say he wasnt a full forward.Ffs we made a great potent man that could have been like a dinosaur tonight,raw aggression,power,pace ,and athleticism look like a butterfly.I said he would be made look awful,Dont blame walsh,ffs have anyone seen cork u21 2011,when he went in there and an average Begley at 3 cleaned him out.Could never or ever looked comfortable 14 for the football or for kanturk,left there too long,such confidence was gone -and he couldnt do it at half forward,did make great catch,set of an a trade mark run,but then hit illegally.
I said it before Wayne mac is a liabilty at 6,,when hickey is back,he should be dropped,or Tom ryan put in there.Gas,one of the most natural and gentlemen on the field,Mulchay harsly got the line,yet Wayne mac notourisly rough,with a very dangerous tackle was not sent off.
I was geuinely gutted for Mulchay.


Dont mind this lark,cococoran took time at 14.Cococran was a rare breed,a superb reader and wonderful touch and accurcay,despite having peripheral vision.Walsh has a different still set .He isnt a 13,,1,4,15.
10,,11,12 play him there or don't waste the lads time ,and let him play football soley .
Blameless i said thursday if he stayed at 14.I dont blame him one bit.A game that wont do hes confidencde any good but he will Rise And Come again ,once he is played to exceute he's strengths and not expose hes weakness.Poor call playing the lad there.I hope like.. lehane,farell he's injury is not serious.

Moylan,worked hard of little and a poor ball supply,great point in the end,but a woeful goal chanced missed,should be told place a shot rather than blast the net.
Start him the next days,needs a run of games.Has it all for this level.


I advocated all week for alan cadogan,and at half time i said Must come on.What a talent,what a debut,two great points with no supply,super catch and agilty ,turned like a six pence for the ist one,won a load of ball,laid it off intelligenty,strong ,robust on and of the ball,great work rate of the ball,he is a real star in the making.I always said i rated him,must start the next day.Could get two goals etc v laois.


Haughney and o farell too late to be rated,haughney showed a bit of bite i didnt think he had ,with the yellow card.


Eoin cadogan got some touch and training tonight and came on a lot,by sitting on the bench.Never wanted him dual,but if he misses football games,the least you do is start him.Imagine footballers that cant get a game,watching him miss crucial game yet no hurling.Should of been used.


People can say its too early to judge,but at the end of the day we had a golden chance to win ,get two points ,we didnt take it,and if we do go up,or league is changed next year,not much good to us when we couldnt win tonight.If that team played any div 1 team away from home we were beaten out the gate .
Harnedy,cronin etc cant be used as an excuse quite simply because we had better options than the 15 we started still,and its all fine to say we testing new guys ,but surely ,after 35 minutes ellis white,cian mac,should what they could do and more IMPORTANTLY COULDNT DO and others like spillane,keane,hauthney,sul etc deserved a half as now we wont get another Real Game with intensity as a true litmus test of a player til the quater final,even if that,depending who we meet and what there intentions are ,we may have to wait for a semifinal.


Im a huge fan since i was 5,,jbm owes cork nothing,a legend ,but its not immune to ciriticism like any manager and yes i do believe he is the man for the job ,but its fair and realistic to say poor calls were made,are being made at 3 and tonight was a game we needed to believe for confidence and belief and create that winning mentatilty.He has learned from mistakes in the past,so he should learn i believe from tonight ,but a huge worry is there realistion that O neill,mcdonnell are full backs and the failure to accept we have BIG problems there,the last TWO YEARS,going on 33


Great credit to limerick,and browne,riche mac(bit of hes high standard but still when the need was greatest ,a cloloussus,the sublime and majestic Dowling(oh what could have been if he started last year)Superb condon,o grday ,and jim bob ryan and my lord Gavin O Mahony was awesome,him and horgan man of the match i feel.



And finally with an understrength,team,no bench Ogrady outhought and outfoxed Cork and when you see a full strength ,at home,extra man in scorching heat ,stumbled with a stronger bench ,to beat us  with Allen,and tactially out manovered then by Clare,see the world of difference with them in just one game to last year.A serious team that could be All ireland contenders ,once O Grady is thdm main man,let Tj ryan do the interviews etc keep tom ryan and co happy,but to win the all ireland let O grady be the Captain of the ship they may in time sail of down the Shannon with The Liam Mac.

Ghrame mulchaly isnt a dirty player,bit harsh to send him off,and no nonense of a dubious last minute free or the extra time,lads we have only ourselves to blame,and limerick dererve immense credit,and like i said today,nothing at all wrong with theis mindset ,14 man ,6 down away from home proved that.


If i was a limerick fan id be more happy and confident tonight,then after the Munster final,as tonight ye will improve,have a manager with the tactical nous to do that ,unlike last year .


Great game,and Limerick the real winners with the league also in that mickey mouse game,with the greatest respect to the opposition now every single game has an added interest regards scoring difference.

grenache

To comment further on the use of the extra man by Cork, I could not understand why so often Joyce, Egan, O'Neill and Murphy just launched the ball long, when under little or no pressure from a one man Limerick full forward line. From a Cork point of view, would it not have been better to pick a 20 yard pass and play a man in space? I thought they totally played into Limerick's hands by hitting it long time after time. O'Brien, McNamara, McCarthy & Condon won a huge amount of dropping ball in the second half. Despite the best efforts of Cadogan and Horgan.

One thing I noticed tonight is that by using more of the short passing game than Cork, Limerick players drew a lot of fouls from the direct opponents. You just have to look at the free count to see a correlation.

Archer3083

You're right. They just seemed to be hitting long aimless balls into forwards which suited Limerick backs. Sure, JBM did something similar against Clare last year in both games even when it wasn't working. He refused to play it short even though Cork do not have ball winning forwards. Possession based game would have been a smarter option.

Connorzee

Cadogan had college exam last week so wouldn't have been played the Football match anyway, but other then that i agree with what you said TTM1

thinkstoomuch1

Connorzee wrote: »

Cadogan had college exam last week so wouldn't have been played the Football match anyway, but other then that i agree with what you said TTM1

I hate ,i get a sick feeling in my stomach when i have to criticise cork,i hate doing it ,but theres no point in being happy go luck for the sake of it.
Look at Munster rubgy,brutal honesty within and outside the camp,makes sure they evolve.

What do you make of ucc and maynooth in he sigesron.A very tough game.you going up to queens?