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Cork GAA Discussion Thread
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Nonoperational wrote: »I'd be one of the strongest defenders of this Cork team, but today they were very poor for a long period of the game. I'm very disappointed with the effort and we really need to learn from that or we will not be getting anywhere.
I just don't think JBM is as good as a manager as what most people make him out to be. He is a Cork legend but legends are open to criticism. I cant see Cork winning an All Ireland or Munster title with him in charge. He has been found out too many times now, Cork v Tipperary in 2012, Cork v Galway 2012, Cork v Clare league 2013, Cork v Limerick Munster final 2013, Cork v Dublin 2013, Cork v Clare two games of the All Ireland Final 2013 and Cork v Tipperary league game 2014. No answer in all of those games. No excuse today for Cork not beating that average Waterford team. Kilkenny or Tipperary wouldn't be as poor if they faced them in the first game of championship.0 -
SEAN id agree with what you said.
Shane o neill was not great today but when the need was greatest he stood up .He wont be as bad the next day.One of the best corner backs in the game,and is such an honest lad,be ist admit he had a bad game,and guranteed he have a stormer in the replay .
Great players rarely have two bad games in a row .
Yes sean my fear is like yours is,kearney ,will after one bad game get dropped ,cadogan or egan at 7 and Lorchan moved outside to partner walsh.
This unit needs game time together,to develop a telephaty and understanding of each other .
I thought it was the units best display since 2012 league,when lorchan and joyce were immense in knowlan park.
Lot work to do ,but Lorchan has to remain there.
With respect,its complete and utter nonense,about rift in managements or rows.Typical,rumours ,you hear,easy excuse after games that trouble in the camp.If there was id be the ist to say it .I heard nothing of that rumour.
There is no such rift in our management set up imo and that had zero to do with today .
Today ,was Simply ,systematic malfunction Failure and simply two lads that played that shouldnt of played and nothing to do with trouble in the camp.
The same rumour with cunningham and jbm that they didnt get on was to a extent true in both had different views,but people blew it up and said they barely talked etc .That was just nonense.
No such thing happened.Both are proffessional and courteous men,had different views at times ,but thats good in the right way.Unlike limerick,they were able to work together ,and would have only for ger being offered the job in limerick which at the time was right to accept as always wanted to manage a team ,and wont get the Cork job.
The issues with today was simply the failure to play the sweeper.Crowley isnt a fan of that system so maybee kingston isnt ,but crowley certainly holds same view as jbm.
Its quite simple Jbm and company dont focus on other teams that much.Seanie mcgrath alluedd to that very point when he said cork do tactics at times ,but dont focus on others ,that much,they focus there strengths and they expected waterford play 15 v 15 and wasnt sure how would play but wanted open game,in echo yesterday.
That to me ,is Naivety by management as like I posted two weeks ago and the dog on the street knew,waterford were ,like every team ,that plays cork will play sweeper .
Players overall havent gone backwards,just as Cusack in the Sunday Game showed ,Cork were simply out numbered in the middle third ,and cork for all talent ,its not rocket science that 4 men have better chance winning a ball over two cork men .Simple logic shows the ratio stacked in waterfords favour,yet our set up ,says win your 50/50 battles.
Like in rubgy you dont commit numbers to the breakdown ,and the opponent does you loose.
Cork hit just 4 balls to the forwards in the ist half.For all the pace and fire power,useless as they had no supply of ball .
Like you have a ferrari ,yet you dont have a fuel supply.Simply it wont run,it cant even get going.Our forwards were that ferrari today power and pace ,lovely to look at but with no fuel supply constantly so we stumbled along when in truth should have cruised along.
Saw rte coverage now,and Loughanne righty crticised management in that after clare last year ,Cork should be used to the sweeper system ,as its not new to them,yet they werent .
The team that wins replays is the team that improves the most.You would think and hope we cant be as bad as today .However ,the replay and all during the league,mistakes have been repeated that we cant be sure Cork will the play short game .
Add in molumphy,dillion,shanahan and o sullivan be in the fray waterford be much stronger ,but If cork adapt to the new ways we can win .
I wouldnt blame jbm in 2012 as he had to build a team and he made huge progress.Hes record 95 and 99 is shown he is astute.
The problem is in 2013 the games have evolved to a new system ,and its not he cant see it,but he is defiant to stay with hes philosphy and isn in to the short game .
Last year,he brought a limited panel to a final and deserves huge credit.He has stronger panel now ,but could do lot worse as he refuses to play new way .
Thats my criticism,refusal to evolve the new way and the failure to realise Cian isnt up to it .
As much as my concerns going forward,i hope 100 per cent gets a 2nd term ,it is hes he wants it ,as if he goes we have no chance ,with the next manager .Theres a bit hope ,with jbm ,may change ,surely he will.
No hope if jbm goes .
O grady and ger c wont get the job.Names be touted just make it like its a real contest when ,they already know there man ,and they wont change .So Jbm I hope he stays .And jbm has lot other postives as manager.If who I think gets the job next ,i would struggle to name one postive he would bring to the set up .
There is just 3 selectors,kingston,seanie,crowley ,and matthews the trainer.
Ger wasnt replaced.
The effort of the players majoirty wise I wouldnt fault,in fact I take my hat off to them,as they showed great resilence,courage to come back 9 down.
It had nothing to do with effort,it was cork were simply outhought and lack intensity in div 1b,came back to haunt us today .
We would learned more playing kk,in league and being hammered than beating offaly .At least it would have been a wake up call and we had games to rectfiy it.
When tipp gave us that wake up in quater final,that was it ,no other games left for us.
The rock in the news of the world ,said dualism wont work today,quite admant it wont work he said.He also rated Cooper.That was before today.He must be thrilled after watching him play superb as a sub.
Rock reconogises warrior in cooper,same way he realised it in noel o leary and told noel the same as a minor in a awards cermeony in the early 2000s.
I saw the sunday game now ,coopers sheer pace and direct running is a real bonus to cork .
In relation to Walsh being criticised,complete rubbish imo.As cusack showed,yes he made 3 mistakes,poor touch,and hand pass and awful sideline that led to the goal.
However he caught at least 3 balls,in air ,no right to win,one in 2nd half crucial time,get crucial point,he broke the tackle numerous times,ran hard and straight ,and is what we havent had since sweetnaham left and started the move that led to cadogans goal chance.
Cadogan got man of the match.Fair play ,couldnt begruded Glesson if he got it though,superb game by the young lad .Credit due to them both as cusack said.Stars of the future.
Yet as cusack said ,Walsh has got to work on hes left side.
However ,as cusack said ,in just ist game in championship,he had a really great impact and it was a postive debut and had the balls to go for a goal ,ran hard and had real energy to the game.
And when you watch glesson great goal,it was walsh was the man chasing back after he poor sideline .A huge engine he has.Theres more in him.
And what a point from another sideline he got in the game.
http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/05/23/garvans-day-sun-still-special/
Good read.
He done it ,the 70.3 in St Polten in 06:14:17 today.Not the time he wanted but sum achievement all the same
Fair play Garvan .Serious respect for even taking part in such a gruelling event .
Not the ist ex gaa player to go ultra races etc.A lad fom cork ,padraig mullins ,played na piarsaigh ,at underage won oldest ultra 100km lake waramburg years ago and the day Midelton beaten by sixmile bridge ,in the hurling club,in six mile bridge in november he won a 50 mile ultra race and competes 100 mile race in usa as well appartentlyg
Great to see lads that played gaa do so well in other sports they take up.0 -
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i know cork didnt play well today and the likelyhood is that ye willl win standing up in 2 weeks time
and while ye are probably the soundest supporters in the country ( my opinion ,.......i doubt the kilkenny lads will like it ) but ye are ***** to put away especially when ye are under dogs and caodigan is as good as joe deane by the looks of things
i know it might piss a few of ye off but i would as a clare man rather meet waterford in thee munster semi final0 -
We have the resources the player and the knowhow. We just struggled to put it all together. A lot of players did not turn up. We have huge talent out there that we are not using. Our whole system even the underage has been formulated into developing individual stars and not team players. Yes we can run all day and when the young waterford lads tired we came into the game. Our lack of physicality is shocking, we were muscled of all the lose ball and invariably conceeded possesion and some very easy scores.
I agree with the Rock the duality will not work the games have moved on and the demands of both are huge. Whilst Walsh is a serious athlete and he is very direct his football skills far outweigh his hurling ability, yet he was effective. Its easy to be highly critical of the management but the players selected did not work hard enough in the first half. I listened to the Rock recently speaking to group of underage players and he drove home the need for a strong work ethic and never say die attitude. The senior squad should take heed.
Lehane was shockingly poor he is very greedy with the ball when he's hot he is very good but when he is off he is shocking. Every underage team in Cork has a Lehane in this is the problem we don't create team players we create individuals who despite their brilliance have difficulty working within a team structure. Unless the mindset changes we will struggle.0 -
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With the greatest respect to people,i have listened to after the match leaving the ground, it just baffling the excuses used here for yesterdays shambles. It had nothing to do with heart,hunger or physicality. We came back from 9 down.You dont do that if your choir boys. Thats one quailty jbm has engrained in team,even beaten by 15 man limerick last year we never gave up. Since 2012 in pouring rain in league again v waterford when against wind we came back and drew that team has turned a corner and has huge resilence. Physicailty wasnt a problem,cahalane,ellis,walsh,cian (physiscal then cooper)cronin ,harnedythe spine of that team was strong. I heard Pauidie Palmer on the radio today(very nice fella)but he said hopefully Cadogan be fit to join the next day and that augars well for cork.Seriously like???
A man that hasnt hurled even in club level,you start and who in the name of the jesus do you drop. Lorchan had outstanding game,Ellis,i crticised many times had a fine game,and Joyce in jbm interview by jbm words had a great game and hes best in years . Is it any wonder joyce ,had best game in years.To me No suprise,as when many critcised the lad,i didnt simply as when he was centre back he had no protection with tom kenny who I said last year as great as he was ,legs were gone last year.And joyce was trying to put out fires everywhere ,and couldnt mind hes own house.
Then when he was at centre back,he was ridacoulsy played at midfield in an aera where lack raw speed was exposed .Yesterday he was excellent but he hasnt done anything different or improved from last year. He was that good last year ,just management couldnt see it.Play the lad in hes natural poisiton ,like Maccie and the rewards are immense.Do the same with Lehane now .
Joyce ,had lorchan with him in that unit ,and thats a huge huge help to cork as lorchan had expierence and composure ,and Ellis had stabilty also.Joyce oozed confidence and class and has oceans of hurling. Kearney has got a lot of criticism today.I cant fathom or begin to understand why a lad that had a super year last year ,is being questioned and people say drop the lad .Some lad said me ,after the match ,oh Haughney has to start.
YEAH you start a man that was outplayed by kearney in county final and simply goes missing in games and The superb kilkenny man ,dowling done a lot great work in middle for midelton. I would recommend that people that want Kearney dropped or question majority players ,to watch match again.I watched it 3 times. Kearney was outnumbered time and again. If lorchan is swtiched to midfield and cadogan in at 7,cork are Simply Going to Loose the replay as they are hitting them selves with both barrells in the sense
1-lorchan isnt a midfielder
-2 cadogan seriously weakens that half back line.
The talk that we need leadership and beefing up,cadogan fits that ,is rubbish imo .As cork wouldnt came back from 9 down if they had no leaders yesterday . Joyce and ellis have more than enough physicality . No point in having leadership ,if cadogan cant hurl .Prengerast of waterford was brought on a sub,for waterford to add physicality ,and leadership,but he could hurl and was a good sub ,something Eoin cant do. What people seen oblivous to is it was sheer weight of nunbers beat us ,as 4 waterford men against two cork men at times as Cusack showed Cleary on the sunday game that in the end waterford hit aimless ball to no body up front ,yet they were holding cork from scoring so they were happy .WHEN galway done it in 2012 semifinal,i didnt blame jbm ,as it was new tactic,now,No excuse,that tactic is widespread in the game,and I saw it in Harty cup final ard scoil v doon etc,where ard scoil full of talents went with sweeper ,as they had to do as doon went with that system as they had to to have any chance . Limerick minors can play that system also.Landers and ring of Cork has cork aware of that system though.Even at minor there a sweeper.Yet we say win 50/50 battles.Cody whos team are Greatest artists of winning 50/50 ball even varied there game now as lot short passing,as they know Clare half back line plus 2 would swarm the middle third and dominate positon.Again Evolouition key to survival in all walks of life.
You can be strong as an ox and stamina of a lion,yet if you go for a ball against a swarm of lads,9/10 times you loose.Our lads must get support so there strength can shine through.In rubgy you see it all the time,big strong men,are tackied ,and choke tackled by a sheer presence of numbers,Donegal done it time and again yesterday to a big phyiscal Derry team ,and so turnovers happened. Seriously,jbm must balance up Cork in the number game in the middle third. Our vision in jbm is spread out and stay wide,yet teams crowd middle third,blanket style ,clean up in our puckouts not that harnedy cronin cant win ball etc,its just always a swarm of men around them . Walsh is vital to cork for them to beat the new system as when he gets the ball,he strong,breaks the tackle ,and is a real runner ,creates overlaps like cooper and thats how you beat the blanket game .Cooper pace and direct running real bonus to Cork ,but will jbm want him to hurl the ball ist time and keep it moving??? Its actually simple ,what cork got to do.Change the system.I have in most previews said teams play blanket style cork would struggle. I thought we would still beat a depleted waterford side but it shows how much the sweeper we cant beat.
The red flag for cork was when jbm got beaten by a sweeper by tipp a team that traditonally play 15 v 15. Everyone knows how to beat cork. Its that simple .Traditionalist like tipp ,even Evolved. When Cork for 3 years with Counihan ,suffered systematic failure due to slow stlyle laboured football against blanket defences many criticised him.Jbm is doing like wise ,this team is simply crippled by the sweeper system. Every thing I read today and heard hasnt once criticised the management ,yes some said we were slow to make changes yet No on in papers Questioned the System.It is not me criticising management for sake of it. It they are imo to blame. Its not like cork had 40 wides etc. Work rate wasnt a real problem either.To blame those is failure imo to accept reality .
The draw is the more I think about it a complete dissaster in that we have dual lads playing 3 weeks in a row ,and were barely in june,and club is up in dissarr til end of june.Jbm even said a week ,turnaround if we win the replay isnt ideal. What must be realised ,is if clare had a game we be in same boat,but unlike other replays ,were both play game again ,clare await nice and fresh. Tomas o se said that with replays in a week you just do video anaylis,dont have time to train much.So we have zero time to train and focus for clare that are miles ahead of waterford,and renember this is the All ireland champions we play. What was a huge huge ask before is now much harder ,and imo a huge huge ask if we win to beat clare . Clare are flying absoultey flying,i know as I would have huge interest in them ,and know people up there .They beat Dublin in a challenge the weekend.Yes ,make no mistake davy ,will say there miles of and if cork do play jhem,wait for the Injury scares,that two or 3 lads are doubtful ,mind games etc when Clare are in a perfect place.
I remember it being said,ah dont read in to a wet heavy night in laois,early yet etc,when the simple fact was Cork had to get a big score in that game ,yet couldnt cope with the sweeper and like against limerick in the ist game,and then tipp,cork were tactically beaten,yet some again said ah ,C6e May we just hit the swtich and turn it on . Now when the stark reality hits,players effort etc are being questioned.Players,majority arent to blame .And even in cian case ,as awful as he was ,its not hes fault if jbm picks man gain and again. League warning signs were There,if people looked at it at face value.A play off game against 14 man limerick was a Complete dissaster ,yet ,it was seen as dont panic,paper over the cracks .When you make excuses,reality is you fool no one but yourself at the end of the day.
Jbm comments today worry me greatly .He cant understand why we lacked spark,remember after laois and limerick he said the same.
Players arent getting possesion being starved of it,so its easy why there are flat ,and theres huge frustration in there play when there constantly outnumbered by teams. Kearney looked gutted ,as he was taken off,as time and again he had 3 men against him and a man that isnt physical needed help .Surley watching the video they can see what many can see,Ger loughanne said at half time,Cork havent adapted to it . A good point was made here regards younger hurlers being more phyiscal.Yes cork underage must do that as clare for example have appointed a strength and conditioning coach at underage.
Minor footballers, would be quater finalist but that due soft draw.Wont do good.
Intermediate hurlers- woulddo well.
Minor hurlers-tough draw ,rattle limerick in limerick at least.
Senior football-remain be convinced by management .
U21 hurlers -beaten ist round,fear a hammering .
Junior football-new team ,but they will do there best.
Senior hurlers-could win all ireland,management the key.
But I hoped jbm would evolve in new ways .
My point is management is key,yet it is never questioned at underage and unfairly lot blame is players arent good enough which at times is a poor excuse . THE underage famine I AGREE is destroying our young lads belief as we arent winning at those levels and at senior were behind the rest.
However jbm has instilled a great belief in this team,never beaten they are. Waterford in next two years are going to at least win munster u21 title.There a force at senior in 3 years.Our u21 is a complete write off till 2016 at the earliest. In regards underage,minor ,Sean hayes was superb for mallow the weekend,a goal again,since kerry game,hes flying at club at minor,at senior with avondu,and then intermediate mallow ,and is a tall strong player and is superb forn for our huge game in 4 weeks against limerick. Alec luttrel had solid game and done as well as he could on pa callaghan.He has to start for the minors.
Cormac murphy u21 was good.The problem isnt talent in mallow.They just Got to play as a team . Murphy played two games in 20hrs and deserves immense credit for yesterdaxt man of the match.Id like to see more of the lad regards senior but worth a panel place at least ahead of cadogan . Wasnt at newecstown game,but my scource told me mcsweeney(not minor,was harty cup full back hamilton and super talent)had a great game at corner back ,trevor horgan u21 ,destroyed ross cashman a solid player,cork intermediates ,and luke meade in a physical game was meant being good in midfield and luke is huge huge player minors and has talent to go all the way . I wouldnt be suprised if horgan gets a call up down the line to cork intermediates,i would have the lad at the panel,as just out of minor he wont get many games with u21,vital he and u21 players drafted in ,if cork beat at u21. Waterford had minors last year with there intermediates and glesson with senior yesterday ,so Horgan is good enough for Interemediate.
Yesterday was A Rude Awakening for Cork .And last year we had just 4 games to get to the final.We have at best now if we win all , to play 5 games to get there .We could have more if we loose.And add in dualism .Imo ,you cant dress up yesterday as anything but a dissaster,as those at club level will say the same with games being put back. Watch the cats ruthless blow offaly away in the ist 20 minutes in a few weeks time,as there is Ruthless intent .Every Game has a Meaning. Cork could do well to read and follow that script .0 -
Some people here need a serious reality check. As Nash said cork have won nothing. You would swear that it was Antrim that you were going out playing. There is very very little between Cork and Waterford in terms of quality. Both good teams but neither anything special at the same time. Do people here actually think that Cork should be "blowing away Waterford" like Kilkenny will do to Offaly. It's completely delusional. Cork are no Kilkenny and Waterford are certainly no Offaly.0
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Its not beyond the realms of acceptable for us to believe that this cork team, who reached an all ireland final last year and at pretty much full strength even with Pa Cronin and Cian Mac playing, to beat a depleted and relatively inexperienced Waterford team..0
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I expected Cork to win but its not a shock that they didn't. It was a completely open championship last year and cork did very well to get there but it could have easily been dublin or waterford too had one ot two things gone their way. That Cork team would be doing extremely well to get to the last two this year. I'm by no means having a cut off Cork by the way. You have some lovely hurlers no doubt but id be more concerned about winning your next game against a much strengthened Waterford side before talking about getting to All Ireland finals. That game is pure 50/50 despite what some here and in the media are saying.Its not beyond the realms of acceptable for us to believe that this cork team, who reached an all ireland final last year and at pretty much full strength even with Pa Cronin and Cian Mac playing, to beat a depleted and relatively inexperienced Waterford team..0 -
Aiden Walsh will be a big driver down the middle and I would expect to see the team go forward to an All-Ireland semi. They're big boys. They're tough boys. I think they're tougher than the likes of Clare. Of course Clare have to be respected as champions. However, I think Cork and Kilkenny have a certain hardness about them. And skill is
plentiful also.0 -
I don't think any major surgery is required for Sunday week. Would drop Kearney, put Lorcan midfield, Conor Sul in corner back and Stevie MacDonnell out to wing back. Drop Cian Mac too and bring Cooper in centre forward and swap Pa Cronin and Seamie Harnedy.
Cork looked very flat for 45 mins of the game on Sunday. I think playing in 1B in the league really showed yesterday. Cork lacked intensity for long spells in the game and it was clear, that despite relegation, Waterford benefited from tough games against the likes of Tipp and Kilkenny.
I can't understand why people were so shocked at the way things panned out yesterday. Waterford always raise their game for us and have a great recond in recent years against us in Thurles.
The game plan the next day should be kept simple and we should try to isolate the likes of Cadogan, Lehane and Hoggy and play them into 1:1 situations with their markers. We need a better puckout strategy too. I stands to reason that if Waterford have extra men back in their half back line then there must be more space around midfield and our half back line. Nash needs to be more aware of this. A little more thought the next day and we should get over the line. Great to have the championship up and running, nothing beats the Munster hurling championship in Thurles.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »
With respect,its complete and utter nonense,about rift in managements or rows.Typical,rumours ,you hear,easy excuse after games that trouble in the camp.If there was id be the ist to say it .I heard nothing of that rumour.
You have your sources of which you hold good stead in,and I have mine. I heard this from 2 different lads who wouldnt talk nonsense. Just because you didnt hear it its not true is it? :rolleyes:
With respect,of course.0 -
Aiden Walsh will be a big driver down the middle and I would expect to see the team go forward to an All-Ireland semi. They're big boys. They're tough boys. I think they're tougher than the likes of Clare. Of course Clare have to be respected as champions. However, I think Cork and Kilkenny have a certain hardness about them. And skill is
plentiful also.
Where was this 'hardness' when a 19 year old walked thru the entire cork defence yesterday? where was it when clare did it multiple times in the all Ireland last year. This cork team are skilful and resilient but I have never heard anyone describe them as 'hard' infact it is the fact that they are too nice and at times bordering on soft that is holding them back.
Cokr have no defender outside cahalane who has his own difficulties hurling wise who will put it up to a player physically. The problem for cork is once a wing back is turned the forward is guaranteed a run at goal, other teams stop this.0 -
Where was this 'hardness' when a 19 year old walked thru the entire cork defence yesterday? where was it when clare did it multiple times in the all Ireland last year. This cork team are skilful and resilient but I have never heard anyone describe them as 'hard' infact it is the fact that they are too nice and at times bordering on soft that is holding them back.
Cokr have no defender outside cahalane who has his own difficulties hurling wise who will put it up to a player physically. The problem for cork is once a wing back is turned the forward is guaranteed a run at goal, other teams stop this.
I miss The Rock.
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almostover wrote: »I don't think any major surgery is required for Sunday week. Would drop Kearney, put Lorcan midfield, Conor Sul in corner back and Stevie MacDonnell out to wing back. Drop Cian Mac too and bring Cooper in centre forward and swap Pa Cronin and Seamie Harnedy.
Cork looked very flat for 45 mins of the game on Sunday. I think playing in 1B in the league really showed yesterday. Cork lacked intensity for long spells in the game and it was clear, that despite relegation, Waterford benefited from tough games against the likes of Tipp and Kilkenny.
I can't understand why people were so shocked at the way things panned out yesterday. Waterford always raise their game for us and have a great recond in recent years against us in Thurles.
The game plan the next day should be kept simple and we should try to isolate the likes of Cadogan, Lehane and Hoggy and play them into 1:1 situations with their markers. We need a better puckout strategy too. I stands to reason that if Waterford have extra men back in their half back line then there must be more space around midfield and our half back line. Nash needs to be more aware of this. A little more thought the next day and we should get over the line. Great to have the championship up and running, nothing beats the Munster hurling championship in Thurles.
Lorchan had hes best game for cork and half back unit had great game ,ist time since 2012,yet we take lorchan out and move to midfield where countless games has been exposed greatly
Im sorry ,but I have to strongly disagree
Kearney is ten times midfieler lorchan is0 -
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If you watch the Waterford goal again, there was a super off the ball run made by one of the Waterford lads away which took two Cork players out of the game, wrongfooted one for enough time to get through. Nash won't be impressed by it anyway, positioning looks poor, not the greatest of striking either.
At least the older Cadogen will bring some physicality to it if he is fit - Cork badly need to be a bit more cynical when needed.
Waterford had a good gameplan, and it worked. The Cork backs looked at sea at times, and worringly, it echos what happened in the AI replay. If JBM is the god he is made out to be, that wouldn't be happening. Anyone who compares KK v Offaly to Cork v Waterford are delusional. Waterford are every bit as good as Cork, have no fear and are well able to hurl. It wasn't Cork coming back to draw the game, more that Waterford lost it - fitness was an issue for them, with a lot of the younger players out on their feet. Minor intercounty is 60 minutes, as is adult club, so for a number of those fellas it was the first time playing 70 minutes of championship hurling.
Cooper to start over Cian Mac, not sure about Lehane - lot of easy missed chances, when he did the hard work. If that was a confidence issue, we wouldn't see him doing the hard work. To the poster who posted the rumour about the management disagreement, I wouldn't be surprised if its true - given how slowly it took Cork to make changes, and move players around - sure sign of it. Players were very poor, yet left on and no changes made, second half there was changes. I'd be very doubtful of JBM's tactics, or lack of tactics tbh and I'd also be wary of coaching. Waterford lads all knew exactly what their roles were, Cork were at sea for a lot of the game. Playing the cross field ball a lot of times and it was intercepted - thats down to coaching0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Lorchan had hes best game for cork and half back unit had great game ,ist time since 2012,yet we take lorchan out and move to midfield where countless games has been exposed greatly
Im sorry ,but I have to strongly disagree
Kearney is ten times midfieler lorchan is
Agreed that Lorchan is more suited to wing back but I thought Waterford really out muscled Kearney there yesterday. I just think we missed Conor Sull as well in the back line. He is a top class defender. The real issues are in the half forward line. Would agree with your earlier posts on Ellis too, was badly burnt for the goal and could be exposed yet if he is ran at. Happy to sit under dropping ball and will eat them up all day but move him around and he can be made look ordinary. Was delighted though to see another Duhallow hurler play well for Cork.0 -
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rebel girl 15 wrote: »If you watch the Waterford goal again, there was a super off the ball run made by one of the Waterford lads away which took two Cork players out of the game, wrongfooted one for enough time to get through. Nash won't be impressed by it anyway, positioning looks poor, not the greatest of striking either.
At least the older Cadogen will bring some physicality to it if he is fit - Cork badly need to be a bit more cynical when needed.
Waterford had a good gameplan, and it worked. The Cork backs looked at sea at times, and worringly, it echos what happened in the AI replay. If JBM is the god he is made out to be, that wouldn't be happening. Anyone who compares KK v Offaly to Cork v Waterford are delusional. Waterford are every bit as good as Cork, have no fear and are well able to hurl. It wasn't Cork coming back to draw the game, more that Waterford lost it - fitness was an issue for them, with a lot of the younger players out on their feet. Minor intercounty is 60 minutes, as is adult club, so for a number of those fellas it was the first time playing 70 minutes of championship hurling.
Cooper to start over Cian Mac, not sure about Lehane - lot of easy missed chances, when he did the hard work. If that was a confidence issue, we wouldn't see him doing the hard work. To the poster who posted the rumour about the management disagreement, I wouldn't be surprised if its true - given how slowly it took Cork to make changes, and move players around - sure sign of it. Players were very poor, yet left on and no changes made, second half there was changes. I'd be very doubtful of JBM's tactics, or lack of tactics tbh and I'd also be wary of coaching. Waterford lads all knew exactly what their roles were, Cork were at sea for a lot of the game. Playing the cross field ball a lot of times and it was intercepted - thats down to coaching
If it is one thing that I would criticise JBM on is his hesitancy to make changes. If Davy Fitz was in charge of Cork yesterday Cian Mac would have been hauled off after 20 mins and Pa Cronin soon after. That would have stopped the rot earlier on and we would have probably won the game. I can;t fathom the management's allegiance to Cian Mac, he isn't good enough for intercounty hurling and no more about it. Is it because he is a Sars man or Teddy's son? It very nearly cost us yesterday. Pa Cronin needs to put the shoulder to the wheel now too. He was lucky not to give away a free just before Cooper got the goal, I thought it should have been a free out for chopping down on Noel Connors I think it was.0 -
Driving home in awful awful weather ,my journey was brightened up this eveining,as at 8 pm listening to newstalk,i think it was,i heard Daithi regan said What cork problems were.
At last someone said it.Id recommene anyone listen to it.
He said,cork had talented,wonderful indivudals,better than others in some counties,and that sheer individual brillance ,kept us in both all irelands finals last year ,but as a team we are pnr,and its sad to watch,and we havent improved one bit in our game plan from last year.
He said he met jbm many times,huge time for ,hes An Iconic Gaa man,a legend and hes hero yet ,he is traditionalist ,like Crowley and wont play the Clare way ,possesion game ,and thus the cork lads are simply out manovered and easy to play .
He said we have the talent to win the all ireland,doubts we will ,bv its not too late to change style,and we have players ,to play clare way and we should set up exactly like them.
He said ,jbm lacks innovation o grady,daly,davy ,allen(i dont agree there)cody to go against old ways.
He said cody and kk are real threat to clare as there adapting there style .
He said cork beat kk last year as 15 v 15 cork lads knew what to do,but against swarm defences have no idea how to play ,and players are caught between two stools,in that dont know to play 15 v 15 or follow there men when they go back deep.
He said cork should have a two man full forward line with lehane and cadogan.I aint a fan lehane in full forward ,however maybee with huge space inside he could do damage.If not lehane,cronin ,or pauide or horgan or luke imo could play that role.
Yes everbody has scources and if thats true regards this supposed Row with Crowley and jbm etc,then its A huge turnaround in that as Reagan said ,crowley is huge fan of jbm style and old school and I find it imppossible,to believe ,just my opinion,to even think jbm and crowley were on different sides of this "supposed row ".I for one certainly dont believe it .
Reagan aid Cork had the talent but it was mainly the system he questioned.Imo thats it in a nutshell0 -
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almostover wrote: »Agreed that Lorchan is more suited to wing back but I thought Waterford really out muscled Kearney there yesterday. I just think we missed Conor Sull as well in the back line. He is a top class defender. The real issues are in the half forward line. Would agree with your earlier posts on Ellis too, was badly burnt for the goal and could be exposed yet if he is ran at. Happy to sit under dropping ball and will eat them up all day but move him around and he can be made look ordinary. Was delighted though to see another Duhallow hurler play well for Cork.
No matter who is playing centre back, the whole Cork defense looks shaky when run at - down to coaching. Ellis wasn't at fault for the goal, the goal came from down the left side, Joyce and Walsh chasing, Ellis moved a step to his right to cover the other Waterford player which opened the hole.0 -
TTM = I totally agree with you about Cork's failure to adapt and to be fair, you pointed this out before the game. The league game v Limerick really brought it home to me - we were destroying them when they had 15 men but O Grady adapted when they went to 14 and we were completely stifled. You've made the valid comparison with Counihan when he couldn't adapt quickly enough to the defensive system.
JBM has done a remarkable job - he's instilled belief and his iconic status was probably crucial in persuading the lads to try dual however, he's very 'old-school' wrt tactics. It's very hard to see any significant change at this stage. Unfortunately, the men like O Grady, Cusack etc that possess the tactical awareness are not acceptable to Frank so it's not looking too promising in the short to medium term.0 -
I'd be worried if I was ye that Paudie Mahony was winning balls in the air, not known for it. Shane Walsh, Austin Gleeson and Donie Breathnach all won clean catches in the forward line for us as well that I can remember.
I think some, not all, but some are getting ahead thinking of other tests ahead. But one thing I would say is we don't have a very aerially dominant forward line, but yer backs look weak in that regard too and would pay dearly against Kilkenny I feel.0 -
To be honest we have the best half forward in the county last year as sub keeper Darren McCarthy , give him a chance - Lawton I think should be call up to start midfield for me .Kearney it might not have been 1 of his best days but he has a bit of fight and would maybe try him in half back he was there before for club a played well also quicken up the defence. Cit had Jamie Coughlan for bits at midfield and did well so plenty there . Shane O'Neill was well exposed and I think has lost a lot of pace ( Conor o Sullivan has to start) and I would call back kilian Murphy and Jamie nagle serious backs
My team :
1 Nash
2 Murphy. 3 Joyce 4 Sullivan
5kearney 6ellis. 7 mccloughlin
8 Lawton. 9 Coughlan
10mccarthy. 11. Cooper. 12 Sullivan
13.cadogan 14horgan. 15hardney0 -
With the greatest respect and yes its just your opinon but I truly hope to God that team doesnt start.Thats just my opinion.
We drop the best corner back in the buisness ,along side ,cahill and paul murphy in the game doesnt make sense ,in shane o neill who clearly confidence got rattled,after replay against clare when he was played out of position.
When Cussen had him in trouble in 2012 county final,that showed he isnt a full back.Cussen is hardly all star material.
Why o why if we did make a huge mistake and drop shane would we then go one step further and not even play Maccie who had a super game yesterday in hes natural position.Murphy is a fine player but he isnt better than shane or Maccie.He should be on the panel though.Treated poorly imo by management .If you drop shane ,you play conor sul.We now by that poster team have a completly new full back line that hasnt played together in a unit ,in ,murphy,joyce and Sullivan.
Joyce ,at 3,,i cant see the logic there in that move,the man has hes best game in two years,yet we play the man at full back ,where cahalane was solid.Joyce has never played 3,he would be roasted like a sausage on a barbeacue in there.Just when he got confidence up.IF cahalane gets injured,spillane has get recall.At half forward ,out of position,in inermediate had a superb sub cameo ,turned the game,hugely physical,and lorded in the air and has pace,real pace.
Kearney isnt a half back thats better than joyce.Just when we beef up that aera,people want to take the physicality away .
Lawton ,no way.He didnt hit a ball yesterday.
Coughlan yes ,could be a great option with walsh only.He had super pass for cooper point.
But he isnt better than kearney in the middle
We drop walsh,despite having great game,he was the lad that when shane o neill made late vital block ,got the ball.He was everywhere.That midfield you picked too light.
Half forward line be eaten alive.
Just one ball winner.
We dont need Mccarthy of ballymartle there
We drop lehane.Club player of the year ,superb goal in drawn final...2-10 in county final ,is just beyond belief
Pauide isnt as proven 2012 league a ball winning half forward.
We take harnedy out,our main ball winner and keep him inside where he gets zero supply.
You must have cooper,lehane,harnedy in half forwards to win the ball.With Luke,pauidi,horgan,cadogan etc cork have real quailty inside.You dont rob peter to pay paul ,by having your best half forward,real presence in harnedy at full forward
Imo that team be blown out the gate by waterford as you have a woeful full back ,a poor half back line ,a one man show in the middle,a half forward line with huge imbalance,and a full forward line with potential yet get no supply
As one poster said and he was spot on ,no need major surgey just imo two changes ,the Greatest change being the system we play imo.
The complete panic in changing a lot of the team ,yet the system stays the same is just making the situtation worse imo .0 -
Lawton made three dispossessions when he came on, god only knows if you were actually watching the match.
Also rumours abound that Egan has been kicked from the panel.0 -
rebel girl 15 wrote: »If you watch the Waterford goal again, there was a super off the ball run made by one of the Waterford lads away which took two Cork players out of the game, wrongfooted one for enough time to get through. Nash won't be impressed by it anyway, positioning looks poor, not the greatest of striking either.
That is a very good point. The movement off the ball was excellent and the clip should be shown to all teams on how to create space. Of course, the Cork defenders can learn something from it too.0 -
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