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Cork GAA Discussion Thread
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1 Nash
2 O'Neill 3 Cahalane 4 O'Sullivan
5 McDonnell 6 Ellis 7 McLoughlin
8 Kearney 9 Walsh
10 Lehane 11 Harnedy 12 Cooper
13 Cadogan 14 Horgan 15 Moylan0 -
Agreed. People are judging him on one error (he pulled on a ball when he had time to pick it). Hopefully he'll bulk up a bit and he could prove very useful.
I don't think he is an inter-county standard half-forward/midfielder (yet) but if the choice is between him, Cronin and Cian Mac, I know who I would choose.0 -
I did watch the match,i was actually at it.
I can geuinely understand and applaud your loyalty to Lawton,as by your posts youre from that aera and I honestly admire that,but Sentiment and emotion is useless to Cork going forward imo regards Cork winning all irelands.If any other lad had played that way he would be criticised.
Fair enough your content to have players like him with cork to win all ireland ,thats your opinion.
Lawton,what I expect from lads playing intercounty For Cork fell way short whats required imo,I expect so much more when you wear the Cork jersey .Clare or kk simply wouldnt have lawton starting.
.He was ,busy ,put it kindly I suppose at best .
He has had numerous chances ,and is hot and cold.Awful in the league games,yes did well in the challenges and I said give him a chance.
When you have lads like cooper,harnedy ,who in their ist games take to it like a duck to water , simply there is no excuse for lawton as lawton had league games ,that cooper didnt and harnedy had two league games but not u21 unlike lawton and also cooper lost close year hurling last year.Yet they were superb.
Imo simply has hurling,but not the temparament or warrior for it.You say he isnt up to intercounty "Yet"
But you want us to waste time give the lad chance after chance.
Im sorry now,that doesnt wash with me.How many chances do we give lads???We dont have many games to get it right.Its sink or swim in two weeks.Beaten and we havent a hope of getting to a final again
He hasnt been injured,he played fitz hurling,league games,challenges,so no valid excuse why he hasnt done it,we cant wait all day ,he has got more of a chance than others.
O shea deserves hes chance.
I was a huge fan of lawton ,but he hasnt done it.
The other lawton was taken of in intermediate game ,he was poor also ,and shouldnt start the next day imo also.I doubt he will.Even with castlematyr selector,intermediate team are ruthless to take the lad of.Thats what you want and why cork came from 3 down and won that game,in real danger of loosing.
Lehane,cooper,harnedy must start ,and if kearney is dropped,o shea starts.Coughlan deserves to start ahead of lawton,when played at half forward,never lets cork down.Against kk,last year,superb.
The cooper point,was made directly by hes sublime pass,Paul scholes would of been proud of .
I agree he is better than Cian or Cronin.However there so poor,thats not justification to play them .There is much better than lawton imo.
Kearney is fine ,hoewever if cork want other options mick walsh or murphy be far far better.Both outstanding sunday and could play midfield.
Walsh in 2011 against kk knowlan park was very good,never got fair run with jbm ,but has hurling and unlike lawton wont go missing .
5 things Cork must do going forward
-Be ruthless with players who arent perforning.Reputations are yesterdays story .In the case of Cian it applies.
With regards lehane ,i reserve judgment til he actually plays and stays at 10.
With cronin,id give him a chance at 14.The captaincy next year has to go to Nash or Harnedy as ,you cant have captain who struggling to start.
Kearney ,id actually give the lad support in the middle third before id drop the lad.
-Evolve the system,and not free of the cuff hurling,but an Actual Game plan where there is Purpose and Method,and Madness to ,in we hunt in packs,and every lad has a defined Role.Must play a sweeper or were simply beaten before a ball is thrown it .
-leave lads in there natural positions ,Maccie at 4,lorchan at 7,lehane at 10.
-Continune to go for Goals like walsh and Cadogan went for
-Drop Eoin Cadogan of the panel .Nagle,walsh,murphy deserve be ahead of him .
Very interesting 3 weeks ahead.I said here,that Cuthbert in Examiner said he Wont pick lads that arent training.
Cadogan is struggling with injury ,if he doesnt train with footballers,he by Cuthberts own words,not mine ,wont be picked.Well thats what he says anyway .
A man just back from injury,be complete,and utter ,madness to play 3 games in 3 weeks and train also,which he will have to do if he plays hurling .
Cork football simply wont win without him,huge huge player in a full back line were seriously short in depth ,and if hes out ,huge huge worries as Dorman is by management seen as a corner back.
Yet our hurlers simply wont beat waterford,get decimated by clare if he starts as o mahony,kelly etc way too much hurling for him .
Not a bad team Slingerz ,id agree bar two .I wouldnt drop joyce,though,had best game ,in ages,acknowleded by jbm ,and has real beef to that unit .
Id have no problem with mcdonnell at 5,and I would go with that ,but id have joyce at 7,lorchan sweeping.
Pauide would have to start ahead of moylan if fit in 15 v 15,moylan as proven countless times is much better as a sub.
Id still like to see cronin and cadogan inside in a two man line .
Cronin as shown against clare can get goals.0 -
Club championship fcuked up again!!! We won't be playing the first round until July I'd say!
Fair sick of the club championship structure. This will be my last year playing. I'll enjoy the summers then...0 -
That is a very long post for someone saying very little. Lawton came on, he won three dispossessions and gave away one free. His performance was very much in the credit column...unlike Cian McCarthy and Patrick Cronin, whose performances were very much in the debit columns.
Now based on what we saw last Sunday, if the choice is between Lawton, Cronin and McCarthy, I would pick Lawton. Simple as that really.0 -
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »I did watch the match,i was actually at it.
I can geuinely understand and applaud your loyalty to Lawton,as by your posts youre from that aera and I honestly admire that,but Sentiment and emotion is useless to Cork going forward imo regards Cork winning all irelands.If any other lad had played that way he would be criticised.
Fair enough your content to have players like him with cork to win all ireland ,thats your opinion.
Lawton,what I expect from lads playing intercounty For Cork fell way short whats required imo,I expect so much more when you wear the Cork jersey .Clare or kk simply wouldnt have lawton starting.
.He was ,busy ,put it kindly I suppose at best .
He has had numerous chances ,and is hot and cold.Awful in the league games,yes did well in the challenges and I said give him a chance.
When you have lads like cooper,harnedy ,who in their ist games take to it like a duck to water , simply there is no excuse for lawton as lawton had league games ,that cooper didnt and harnedy had two league games but not u21 unlike lawton and also cooper lost close year hurling last year.Yet they were superb.
Imo simply has hurling,but not the temparament or warrior for it.You say he isnt up to intercounty "Yet"
But you want us to waste time give the lad chance after chance.
Im sorry now,that doesnt wash with me.How many chances do we give lads???We dont have many games to get it right.Its sink or swim in two weeks.Beaten and we havent a hope of getting to a final again
He hasnt been injured,he played fitz hurling,league games,challenges,so no valid excuse why he hasnt done it,we cant wait all day ,he has got more of a chance than others.
O shea deserves hes chance.
I was a huge fan of lawton ,but he hasnt done it.
The other lawton was taken of in intermediate game ,he was poor also ,and shouldnt start the next day imo also.I doubt he will.Even with castlematyr selector,intermediate team are ruthless to take the lad of.Thats what you want and why cork came from 3 down and won that game,in real danger of loosing.
Lehane,cooper,harnedy must start ,and if kearney is dropped,o shea starts.Coughlan deserves to start ahead of lawton,when played at half forward,never lets cork down.Against kk,last year,superb.
The cooper point,was made directly by hes sublime pass,Paul scholes would of been proud of .
I agree he is better than Cian or Cronin.However there so poor,thats not justification to play them .There is much better than lawton imo.
Kearney is fine ,hoewever if cork want other options mick walsh or murphy be far far better.Both outstanding sunday and could play midfield.
Walsh in 2011 against kk knowlan park was very good,never got fair run with jbm ,but has hurling and unlike lawton wont go missing .
5 things Cork must do going forward
-Be ruthless with players who arent perforning.Reputations are yesterdays story .In the case of Cian it applies.
With regards lehane ,i reserve judgment til he actually plays and stays at 10.
With cronin,id give him a chance at 14.The captaincy next year has to go to Nash or Harnedy as ,you cant have captain who struggling to start.
Kearney ,id actually give the lad support in the middle third before id drop the lad.
-Evolve the system,and not free of the cuff hurling,but an Actual Game plan where there is Purpose and Method,and Madness to ,in we hunt in packs,and every lad has a defined Role.Must play a sweeper or were simply beaten before a ball is thrown it .
-leave lads in there natural positions ,Maccie at 4,lorchan at 7,lehane at 10.
-Continune to go for Goals like walsh and Cadogan went for
-Drop Eoin Cadogan of the panel .Nagle,walsh,murphy deserve be ahead of him .
Very interesting 3 weeks ahead.I said here,that Cuthbert in Examiner said he Wont pick lads that arent training.
Cadogan is struggling with injury ,if he doesnt train with footballers,he by Cuthberts own words,not mine ,wont be picked.Well thats what he says anyway .
A man just back from injury,be complete,and utter ,madness to play 3 games in 3 weeks and train also,which he will have to do if he plays hurling .
Cork football simply wont win without him,huge huge player in a full back line were seriously short in depth ,and if hes out ,huge huge worries as Dorman is by management seen as a corner back.
Yet our hurlers simply wont beat waterford,get decimated by clare if he starts as o mahony,kelly etc way too much hurling for him .
Not a bad team Slingerz ,id agree bar two .I wouldnt drop joyce,though,had best game ,in ages,acknowleded by jbm ,and has real beef to that unit .
Id have no problem with mcdonnell at 5,and I would go with that ,but id have joyce at 7,lorchan sweeping.
Pauide would have to start ahead of moylan if fit in 15 v 15,moylan as proven countless times is much better as a sub.
Id still like to see cronin and cadogan inside in a two man line .
Cronin as shown against clare can get goals.
tbf i completely forgot about Joyce and would have him in the half back spot with McDonnell on the other side and Lorcan and Kearney midfield. Walsh at half forward then with Lehane and Harnedy.
I have no faith whatsoever in Pa Cronin so he will never make my selection i'm afraid.
As for Lawton, i would prob agree that he will never be an all star but at the same time i wouldnt use Cooper/Harnedy's debut's to beat him with. If I recall correctly, Horgan didnt blossom in the manner that Cadogan or Gleeson did when thrown in on their debut so I'd prefer to give him more time than you are anyway.0 -
rebel girl 15 wrote: »If you watch the Waterford goal again, there was a super off the ball run made by one of the Waterford lads away which took two Cork players out of the game, wrongfooted one for enough time to get through. Nash won't be impressed by it anyway, positioning looks poor, not the greatest of striking either.
At least the older Cadogen will bring some physicality to it if he is fit - Cork badly need to be a bit more cynical when needed.
Waterford had a good gameplan, and it worked. The Cork backs looked at sea at times, and worringly, it echos what happened in the AI replay. If JBM is the god he is made out to be, that wouldn't be happening. Anyone who compares KK v Offaly to Cork v Waterford are delusional. Waterford are every bit as good as Cork, have no fear and are well able to hurl. It wasn't Cork coming back to draw the game, more that Waterford lost it - fitness was an issue for them, with a lot of the younger players out on their feet. Minor intercounty is 60 minutes, as is adult club, so for a number of those fellas it was the first time playing 70 minutes of championship hurling.
great points0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »I'd be worried if I was ye that Paudie Mahony was winning balls in the air, not known for it. Shane Walsh, Austin Gleeson and Donie Breathnach all won clean catches in the forward line for us as well that I can remember.
I think some, not all, but some are getting ahead thinking of other tests ahead. But one thing I would say is we don't have a very aerially dominant forward line, but yer backs look weak in that regard too and would pay dearly against Kilkenny I feel.
Another case in point is Brian O Sullivan winning balls in the air near the end of the game - not something he is out there to do or expected to do, credit to the lad himself obviously but wouldnt be expecting him to be catching ball over padraig maher or jackie tyrell0 -
BobBobBobBob wrote: »Club championship fcuked up again!!! We won't be playing the first round until July I'd say!
Fair sick of the club championship structure. This will be my last year playing. I'll enjoy the summers then...
I hear ya, used to sicken me in waterford waiting around the whole summer, thank go we are running off games now there is more teams involved than the county teams! I remember once have a 19 week 'break' between championship matches.... farcical0 -
U21 Munster Hurling championship launched today.
I should be excited ,and grealty looking forward to it for Cork.
Im dreading the waterford game to be honest,real fear we could get a huge huge beating.
Players are there,talent is there ,but bar the Excellent matthews our Set up management is poor .
We should be going up there with a real belief we rattle them ,yet There is a real fear ,anxiety surrounding it,which is a complete and utter joke regards a County at u21 level like cork .
Were likey to be without 3 key players.One is out due to injury for the considerable future ,one is likey to not commit ,pa callaghan.
And one if true is having issues with the set up.A huge huge player for cork,with lots of expierence at this grade ,and other grades ,a huge leader and a big time player.
Orizo ,i will simplify for you.I gave clear examples lawton isnt up to it.Please give me one game that lawton played very good for Cork??
.Now with respect ,i mean not simply going by what John horgan,a castlematyr man gaves rave reviews in the Echo ,regards him,actual performances,Real fact is what I want.If you do,ill admit im wrong,no bother .
And let me say Again,lehane,cooper,and Harnedy are ahead of him in the half forward line.
Coughlan is must better option as a sub ,in midfield or half forward,or Rob o shea.
I agree cian and cronin arent up to it in that unit.But your using that then justify lawton ,starting when your imo ,with respect conviently forgetting Coughlan and o shea are much ,much better and ,also simply we are better ,with lehane,cooper,and harnedy .
Lawton ,lets be realistic isnt without ,cian and cronin even or only option there.
If we had to we could move walsh to 12 as he has to energy to cover deep like he was at midfield the last day .
I watched it again,he didnt force 3 turnovers.two at most .
What about the rest time he was on,he didnt hit a ball.
As I said,cooper,no hurling in the league ,and lost a year put lawtons display in perspective.Thats what I want and demand in intercounty lads for cork .
Also you said,in your own words,lawton isnt up to intercounty "Yet".So again when will he be???and how many chances do we give him.0 -
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My point regards offaly is ,if cork played them as league showed,and they are awful,i mean awful,we would struggle to beat them.Yes we would win,but we wouldnt play for 70 minutes.Watch kk absoultey tear them to shreds.That game has meaning.If you dont do it against awful offaly,wont start the next day .Minium standard is in kk,to destroy them.Yet if cork won and struggled,like the league ,people would make excuse after excuse ,that its hard to get up intensity that match etc .Thats my point g0
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The general consensus I still gather is that Cork feel that they need only turn up for the replay as a combination of a) Waterford won't be as good again and b) Cork can't be as bad. I for one wasn't expecting the performance out of Waterford and pride was certainly restored in the jersey following a poor league showing in the final 3 games. At the same time I arguably think we can increase our performance with Shane O'Sullivan back from suspension and hopefully Darragh Fives and Stephen Molumphy also in the fray. I think the rest of our squad out injured which is approaching 7 or 8 are more than 2 weeks away from fitness0
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Cornerstoner wrote: »The general consensus I still gather is that Cork feel that they need only turn up for the replay as a combination of a) Waterford won't be as good again and b) Cork can't be as bad. I for one wasn't expecting the performance out of Waterford and pride was certainly restored in the jersey following a poor league showing in the final 3 games. At the same time I arguably think we can increase our performance with Shane O'Sullivan back from suspension and hopefully Darragh Fives and Stephen Molumphy also in the fray. I think the rest of our squad out injured which is approaching 7 or 8 are more than 2 weeks away from fitness
I can guarantee you nobody is thinking that. Did you see the JBM interview after the game? He never underestimates Waterford, and ever less so now.
Don't think there's a single half-educated Cork fan that believes that all we have to do is simply "turn up". I'd say it's a 50/50 game at this stage.
There's other Cork GAA forums on the net, no one from Cork is saying/thinking this. The RTE "expert" media analysts might be..0 -
The Pontiac wrote: »I can guarantee you nobody is thinking that. Did you see the JBM interview after the game? He never underestimates Waterford, and ever less so now.
Don't think there's a single half-educated Cork fan that believes that all we have to do is simply "turn up". I'd say it's a 50/50 game at this stage.
There's other Cork GAA forums on the net, no one from Cork is saying/thinking this. The RTE "expert" media analysts might be..
Have to agree with that. Even if the crowd 16,000 was small, most of those that did turn up expected a close game and got it. It is the media that overwhelmingly dismissed Waterford. Also, in fairness, it is true the general consensus in hurling counties outside of Cork and Waterford was that Cork would win. I'm sure the genuine Cork support were a bit nervous after their less than auspicious League form. From a Waterford point of view getting the run around by Clare and Kilkenny is still better preparation than Cork's winter campaign. Both teams needed that game, both teams expect to win the next day. I hope there is a better crowd, not sure if it being broadcast anyway, maybe Channel 7 in Australia have it but 10 euro for a terrace ticket is value for money. I hope a lot more think so too.0 -
The Pontiac wrote: »I can guarantee you nobody is thinking that. Did you see the JBM interview after the game? He never underestimates Waterford, and ever less so now.
Don't think there's a single half-educated Cork fan that believes that all we have to do is simply "turn up". I'd say it's a 50/50 game at this stage.
There's other Cork GAA forums on the net, no one from Cork is saying/thinking this. The RTE "expert" media analysts might be..
I agree 100% with you, any Cork supporter I spoke too before the game that would be involved with clubs and stuff did not see it the way it was been broadcasted in the media.
if ever there was a team waiting in the long grass it was waterford and cork knew that.
No team team in munster can be complacent when facing any of the rest anymore, any of the 5 can beat another on a given day0 -
My god what is this?havent got a kalou wrote: »To be honest we have the best half forward in the county last year as sub keeper Darren McCarthy , give him a chance - Lawton I think should be call up to start midfield for me .Kearney it might not have been 1 of his best days but he has a bit of fight and would maybe try him in half back he was there before for club a played well also quicken up the defence. Cit had Jamie Coughlan for bits at midfield and did well so plenty there . Shane O'Neill was well exposed and I think has lost a lot of pace ( Conor o Sullivan has to start) and I would call back kilian Murphy and Jamie nagle serious backs
My team :
1 Nash
2 Murphy. 3 Joyce 4 Sullivan
5kearney 6ellis. 7 mccloughlin
8 Lawton. 9 Coughlan
10mccarthy. 11. Cooper. 12 Sullivan
13.cadogan 14horgan. 15hardney0 -
I have to smile at some wford posters coming on here and implying cork were complacent and their supporters were cocky coming into this game last week. There wasn't one other cork supporter that I talked to before Sunday that had nothing but respect for wford and what challenge they posed to us. Did we expect to win? Probably yes but only after a very tight match and that was just down to a player by player assessment of 1-15 and more importantly a stronger impact bench where wford were heavily hindered by injuries.
If anything wford supporters were far more down about their team's chances than we were cocky about ours and that was shown by a relatively low number of Waterford supporters at the match compared to previous years.
I and others wrote posts on here the week of the game highlighting and indeed warning against the threat posed by wford who really had nothing to lose as they underperformed in the leave and were relegated.
The quality of their debutants were highlighted and I singled out Austin gleeson specifically. We said that wford were particularly strong around midfield and half back where they predictably lorded it against a cork half forward unit that was simply not up to it.
Nobody but nobody thought then or thinks now that all cork have to do is turn up and if they do they need to get real.As Nash said after the match, what have we won? Sweet **** all compared to some of wford players at underage and whatever.
I was one of the most critical on here after the shambles of the match against Laois and limerick etc. oh it was only feb or whatever u can't be criticising performance then. The signs were there then and the chickens have come home to roost now. I'd still be eternally hopeful and believe that we can have a good year still but the first half of the replay next day out could well end up defining our year yet.0 -
Imo,it is truly an awful team ,that was picked,with the greatest respect to that poster ,and in that it does not recognoise the Grave Reality like many,what Corks Real Problems are,and in utter Desperation ,and Panic ,makes changes ,that there is simply no need to make and makes the Problem far worse,and the dropping of cahalane,joyce from hes best position ,mcdonnell all who played well,begars belief imo.Were in a hole so to speak,to get out of that hole requires rational logic ,we dont keep digging.
When a person drives a car ,and I have seen it ,and gets stuck in wet ground at matches,Panic set in.They rev up and foot to the floor.
Its just instinct,we have power use it.
Cars wheels just spin randoumously in motion .
You dig a deeper hole.What should be simple to get out of,is made much harder.
Logic thing to do ,is to do nothing in that moment and reasseass what the best options are .
Cork team is spinning randoumsly at present in that hole ,Panicking and changing whole dynamic of team with many changes is just imo fruitless exercise .Every time a team looses,the ist instinct with some,wholesale changes to be made.
That isnt always the best case depending on the situation at hand .
And while O neill hadnt a great game,it is a bit much to drop one of our best players last year ,despite,thundering in to the last 20 minutes and drop the best forward in Cork ,when hes played out of position.
If mcdonnell was dropped it would absoultey ruin him,as theres only so many times you get knocked down and get back up.After being roasted at 3 in many games,its testatment to the the lad,and imo he deserves immense credit ,he then has a superb game against waterford.The lad is made of serious stuff and is resilent and has huge backbone to do that.
To drop walsh who was everywhere had ,a real energy appetite for the game,and countless times back in defence ,for Lawton,a lad that goes missing ,and is hit and miss ,is a woeful call imo.
Joyce ,i would recommend people watch 2011 munster u21 against tipp and league v tipp where many times at corner back he was exposed .He doesnt like the full back line at all at all.Na piarsaigh if you told joyce was a full back,they would be in amazement.
That team would be beaten by at least 6 points against waterford and moran would blow lawton away and Cooper wouldnt get a ball against Brick simply as waterford crowd him in that ,mccarthy and paudie arent serial ball winners in the air.If cork want one ball player bar lehane,then Horgan at 11 or jamie at 10 is that option .
I dont believe many cork men ,expect cork to walk it the next day.Theres a real anxiety within our system.I like many expected us to win by 5 points sunday ,thats wasnt unjustfied arrogrance,simply what you would expect from all ireland finalists playing a team without Muriche shan,molumphy,dillion,mahony etc .Were aiming to win the All ireland.
I had said cork could struggle with a sweeper,still thought we win.Just shows how poor we were.
We didnt play as a team or havent in a full game ,its individual excellence.And thats down to we have no Real game plan .When we try to keep wide ,and play fast open hurling,were completly dazzled and frozen out by a sweeper system ,as our lads simply havent been shown any direction to beat that and its an Awful inditement of management that in Clare league twice 2013,twice in all irelane,laois,and limerick ,and tipp in the league ,and even Antrim ,we Haven been exposed as Tactially inable to counter that system and yet bar Reagan nobody in Cork ,has come out for the Greater Good of Cork Hurling and question it imo.
No manager is Immune from criticism.Cork ladies football are so used to winning,if Eammon Ryan didnt evolve the team ,he would be Criticised by many within.
Same with Cody .
Imo waterford who will have huge belief,lot of injured lads fit ,will make no mistake beat us in the replay ,if We play 15 v 15.If we pay 15 v 15,,i say it now ,its completly management to blame and not the players and yet people in cork are afraid to question jbm.
If Denis walsh,counihan or any other manager done the same ,he wouldnt be immune from criticism.
Jbm is ten times the managers they were and its not for a lack of managerial intelligence,or a lack of understanding of the game or the lack of ruthless conviction as in the past he showed those qualites with 99 and this team.
99,he swapped timmy mac to midfield ,that won us the game,had the intelligence and innovation to make mccormack from a 5 ,to an 11 and make landers an efffctive 9.
Last year he played Jamie at 11 and maccie at 6 v clare.
Hes problem is quite simply ,he is a Traditionalist to the bone ,he has a philosphy about the game,regards it as Beautiful ,the fast game,and in my opinion he detests the sweeper,possesion game ,and regards it as ugly ,when as they say ,Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.
This wouldnt be like Cork 2010 football,awful,labourf,slow pedantic football where we stumbled to an all ireland we should have strolled to .
The possesion game would mean with the forwards we have would mean we would blow ,most teams away,galway,wexford,dublin and if we played that system sunday ,would have had too much for a team in transition,that I have No doubt are going to be a force within the next few years.Theres a new breed of players there,and they wont have the baggage of past failures either .Frank flannery ,doing very good with them.
Imo the possesion ,game is beautiful,as its,composed,has delightful accurate passing execution ,and a game where real focus and discpline come in to the play .
There are many different charactestic of beauty .Jbm must realise ,Cork 2004,2005 ,teams were far from ugly and the goal against waterford Munster in 2005 I think with the Possesion game,where we had numerous passes from the back out ,and it ended up in Cocrocan getting the goal by the corner .At that time I remeber the Cork media saying it was like Brazil ,we just played scinatling keep ball then counter attacked ,with Sublime Excecution of a Real Perfectiniost .
The game now is similar ,but gone to the next level of the possesion game.There is nothing ugly with Clares style ,and wasnt with Bareclona in the soccer.
I rememeber last year The Paper decided it was to run with a story an Annoymous former Cork player ,Blamed Newtown style of play for the Demise of Cork Hurling.Just what Cork hurling imo doesnt need,a bandawagon that Traditional is Our only way.To me that is an insult ,that our players,cant adapt to new systems or shouldnt Embrace new ways .
Oblivous to the fact ,two intercounty,and 1 club all ireland we won with that style.
Id love if that same Expert ,would gave hes view now,when clear as day Traditional game is the Demise of this team ,and Would love to hear hes views regards clares win,playing beautfuil hurling ,"Poetry in motion "
In poetic terms everbody loves a poem that has a rythmatic flow to it.
However has proven,Poems that not necessarily Rhyme ,can still be Great ,as they are Beautfiul,in the Meaning they portray ,and they have a Purpose and value to them.
Cork Hurlings with the possesion game and sweeper,Could be Poetry in Motion in that ,we dont have to have the Rythamtic flow of the cuff hurling jbm wants but we could Have a Purpose and value to that team that ,in Essence,is now missing,As cork are playing as Indivudals majority of the time.
Jbm has a stubborn,defiant streak that has made him great down the years,going with Youth and stubbornly sticking to it in 99, and that is wonderful if its harnassed in the right way ,but its now a sheer blatant defiance to go against hes Philosphy of the Beautfiul game ,is going to be the undoing of this team.
Watch limerick Sunday with Tj ,suffer the same fate to tippereary.Yet with tj ryan,it doesnt suprise me.He is and will only be half the manager jbm is .
Thats the real sad thing with jbm ,He Is doing himself a great injustice ,as he done superb with the team to get them to where we are ,but by a simple change we could win the all ireland.
I honestly ,remain to be convinced he will change .
Look at liverpool,struggled up to december,not a hope of a top 4 they said.Rodgers tweaked the system,had Gerrad playing deeper and he got every inch out of that team .
I hope Jbm watched that ,he is a soccer fan,son played in England,and realises a tweak of our system could be unbeliveable for this team.
Cork minors hurlers beat Dublin ,waterford (who beat dubs in challenge 2-15 to 18 points ,)and newtown in challenges and play cats who are playing laois in leinster the 21st june ,this weekend in cork in a challenge .
Laois beat cork in a challenge,3x 20,cork won the last period though.
4 weeks now and counting.
Ronan lynch is injured,hand injury .
Still trainining,no hurling done though .
I be suprised if he didnt make it.I hope he does make it and is fit.He wont be playing u21 next wednesday v clare so he has every chance to be fit.
Could be a classic .
If limerick beat us I hope they go all the way.A fine team and superbly coached,better than some senior intercounty teams .
A great player and ,you want great lads to grace minor games .
You want limerick at there strongest to know exactly where we are at .0 -
I have to smile at some wford posters coming on here and implying cork were complacent and their supporters were cocky coming into this game last week. There wasn't one other cork supporter that I talked to before Sunday that had nothing but respect for wford and what challenge they posed to us. Did we expect to win? Probably yes but only after a very tight match and that was just down to a player by player assessment of 1-15 and more importantly a stronger impact bench where wford were heavily hindered by injuries.
If anything wford supporters were far more down about their team's chances than we were cocky about ours and that was shown by a relatively low number of Waterford supporters at the match compared to previous years.
I and others wrote posts on here the week of the game highlighting and indeed warning against the threat posed by wford who really had nothing to lose as they underperformed in the leave and were relegated.
The quality of their debutants were highlighted and I singled out Austin gleeson specifically. We said that wford were particularly strong around midfield and half back where they predictably lorded it against a cork half forward unit that was simply not up to it.
Nobody but nobody thought then or thinks now that all cork have to do is turn up and if they do they need to get real.As Nash said after the match, what have we won? Sweet **** all compared to some of wford players at underage and whatever.
I was one of the most critical on here after the shambles of the match against Laois and limerick etc. oh it was only feb or whatever u can't be criticising performance then. The signs were there then and the chickens have come home to roost now. I'd still be eternally hopeful and believe that we can have a good year still but the first half of the replay next day out could well end up defining our year yet.
I'm not having a pop if thats what you're suggesting? I said the 'general consensus'. Not supporters specifically. I was downbeat about our chances before the game in advance after a dismal league but it didn't stop me travelling to the game in hope0 -
Cornerstoner wrote: »I'm not having a pop if thats what you're suggesting? I said the 'general consensus'. Not supporters specifically. I was downbeat about our chances before the game in advance after a dismal league but it didn't stop me travelling to the game in hope
I think the general consensus you speak about might be in the media more so than the supporters. I do get that sense reading some stuff that cork won't be as bad whereas I'd be looking at it that wford will be stronger and more confident than the last day. I'm coming at it from knowing Waterford hurling well and knowing what they have at their disposal.
Also cork wford matches the last 10 years have only ever had a few points separating them, form or perceived form at the time doesn't seem to have any bearing on the day.0 -
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Replay isnt going to make it to tv apparently, should swell the numbers attending somewhat0
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I have to smile at some wford posters coming on here and implying cork were complacent and their supporters were cocky coming into this game last week. There wasn't one other cork supporter that I talked to before Sunday that had nothing but respect for wford and what challenge they posed to us. Did we expect to win? Probably yes but only after a very tight match and that was just down to a player by player assessment of 1-15 and more importantly a stronger impact bench where wford were heavily hindered by injuries.
If anything wford supporters were far more down about their team's chances than we were cocky about ours and that was shown by a relatively low number of Waterford supporters at the match compared to previous years.
I and others wrote posts on here the week of the game highlighting and indeed warning against the threat posed by wford who really had nothing to lose as they underperformed in the leave and were relegated.
The quality of their debutants were highlighted and I singled out Austin gleeson specifically. We said that wford were particularly strong around midfield and half back where they predictably lorded it against a cork half forward unit that was simply not up to it.
Nobody but nobody thought then or thinks now that all cork have to do is turn up and if they do they need to get real.As Nash said after the match, what have we won? Sweet **** all compared to some of wford players at underage and whatever.
I was one of the most critical on here after the shambles of the match against Laois and limerick etc. oh it was only feb or whatever u can't be criticising performance then. The signs were there then and the chickens have come home to roost now. I'd still be eternally hopeful and believe that we can have a good year still but the first half of the replay next day out could well end up defining our year yet.
From growing up in Cork and having done all my education there I can tell you there are 2 types of Cork supporters.
Type 1: The knowledgeable cork fan (most of you fall into this bracket) who are gracious in victory and defeat, know their stuff and go to games
Type 2: The bandwagoner who tells you the week before a game that Cork are going to hammer you. Still think Joe Deane is playing despite being retired for years and would struggle to name half the team. First to get an All Ireland ticket
Of course all counties have an element of both!0 -
From growing up in Cork and having done all my education there I can tell you there are 2 types of Cork supporters.
Type 1: The knowledgeable cork fan (most of you fall into this bracket) who are gracious in victory and defeat, know their stuff and go to games
Type 2: The bandwagoner who tells you the week before a game that Cork are going to hammer you. Still think Joe Deane is playing despite being retired for years and would struggle to name half the team. First to get an All Ireland ticket
Of course all counties have an element of both!
What ? Are you telling me Joe Deane's retired ?
Now I know why we didn't beat ye last time out. Never mind, we've still got Ben O Connor and we'll hammer ye in the replay.:)0 -
I think the general consensus you speak about might be in the media more so than the supporters. I do get that sense reading some stuff that cork won't be as bad whereas I'd be looking at it that wford will be stronger and more confident than the last day. I'm coming at it from knowing Waterford hurling well and knowing what they have at their disposal.
Also cork wford matches the last 10 years have only ever had a few points separating them, form or perceived form at the time doesn't seem to have any bearing on the day.
I'd agree with you, H84.
Waterford will have Shane O Sullivan back and maybe a few of the injured lads although Barrett will be a loss. Some Waterford Players seemed to struggle to get the 70 minutes and I'm not sure what they can do about that.
However, Waterford will have their confidence buoyed knowing that a young team can compete with Cork. Cork may have their confidence battered somewhat. I'd see Waterford as warm favourites for the replay.0 -
From growing up in Cork and having done all my education there I can tell you there are 2 types of Cork supporters.
Type 1: The knowledgeable cork fan (most of you fall into this bracket) who are gracious in victory and defeat, know their stuff and go to games
Type 2: The bandwagoner who tells you the week before a game that Cork are going to hammer you. Still think Joe Deane is playing despite being retired for years and would struggle to name half the team. First to get an All Ireland ticket
Of course all counties have an element of both!
Ye have ye're fair share of bandwagoners too lad, I'm friends with a few of them;) some of the best sunshine supporters in the world0 -
I agree 100% with you, any Cork supporter I spoke too before the game that would be involved with clubs and stuff did not see it the way it was been broadcasted in the media.
if ever there was a team waiting in the long grass it was waterford and cork knew that.
No team team in munster can be complacent when facing any of the rest anymore, any of the 5 can beat another on a given day
I think that Cork did underestimate Waterford. With the list of injuries and with hearing the whole world talking about how they should win comfortably and from listening to people talking about their rematch with Clare since the draw was made, I think it seeped into their minds at some level and I think it was a factor in their slow start.
I wouldn't blame them for it either. If you hear something enough times, you can't help but think it might be true.
I don't think they'll underestimate us for the replay, but with a couple of our lads back I think it will be a fairly 50/50 game. And hopefully just as exciting!0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »
Cork minors hurlers beat Dublin ,waterford (who beat dubs in challenge 2-15 to 18 points ,)and newtown in challenges and play cats who are playing laois in leinster the 21st june ,this weekend in cork in a challenge .
.
Any idea of where KK and Cork minors are playing this challenge game?0 -
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