Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Archer3083

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I see so much being said about other sports like soccer and how teams can be gutless compared to GAA, but that performance today was a uttter disgrace.

Cork football is a joke. I have never been once embarrassed to say im from Cork up to today.

Kerry have every right to laugh at us.

I don't think the players are that bad. I really do think that management were responsible for the failures today, and against Tipperary. And I can't for the life understand why Kerry are so optimistic after this victory today. Kerry are no great shakes. When you play against a team that was as poor as Cork were today, you learn absolutely nothing.

The_Kew_Tour

Archer3083 wrote: »

I don't think the players are that bad. I really do think that management were responsible for the failures today, and against Tipperary. And I can't for the life understand why Kerry are so optimistic after this victory today. Kerry are no great shakes. When you play against a team that was as poor as Cork were today, you learn absolutely nothing.

The players should still go out and try to win and play with some pride.

I love my county, but I have lost so much pride for that team today.

disgrace not to give 100%.

I'd rather give jersey to lads that would die for the jersey first.

Gary Neville

sean mac wrote: »

Lads the man is out of his depth, he has no record at this level or even club level at senior. He brought in a bunch of novices who cant game manage. The dual players are poisoning the camp, selecting cahalane today over others after he not kicking a ball since may finished Cuthbert for some, this season is a write off and if the bishopstown man isn't careful he wont have a panel for next year. TODAY WAS AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE

Whatever went on last year, Cubby wasn't wanted by the players who wanted Cleary AFAIK.

It looked as if the league had sorted things but obviously the performances v Dublin and Tipp have eroded confidence.

Players are aware that Frank wanted Cubby and the deal was Frank's support provided Cubby agreed to dual players. Cubby has become a Groucho Marx figure in the dressing room ''These are my principles but if you don't like 'em, well, I have others''

People can trot out the 'pride in the jersey' mantra but the reality is that once you've lost the dressing room then you're a dead man walking. Cubby is good at powerpoint presentations and sound bytes so he'll trot out the familiar lines of ''we've got an opportunity to put this right'' etc etc.

The reality is that this shambles is going to get worse and we won't see in improvement until s.Cubby's term is up - but with Frank, he'll probably get another 2 year

Archer3083

Gary Neville wrote: »

Whatever went on last year, Cubby wasn't wanted by the players who wanted Cleary AFAIK.

It looked as if the league had sorted things but obviously the performances v Dublin and Tipp have eroded confidence.

Players are aware that Frank wanted Cubby and the deal was Frank's support provided Cubby agreed to dual players. Cubby has become a Groucho Marx figure in the dressing room ''These are my principles but if you don't like 'em, well, I have others''

People can trot out the 'pride in the jersey' mantra but the reality is that once you've lost the dressing room then you're a dead man walking. Cubby is good at powerpoint presentations and sound bytes so he'll trot out the familiar lines of ''we've got an opportunity to put this right'' etc etc.

The reality is that this shambles is going to get worse and we won't see in improvement until s.Cubby's term is up - but with Frank, he'll probably get another 2 year

I agree. You can't expect players to have pride in the jersey if they have no faith or confidence in the manager. I think it's obvious now that the players are unhappy with Cuthbert. Cuthbert is certainly a CCB man, that was very clear from the beginning. I would expect Cork to stumble over the line in a qualifier, but I can't see Cork doing any good at quarter final stage. I can't see Cuthbert haning on for a 2nd year if it's that obvious that he's lost the dressing room. He can't be that stubborn or fool hardy!

Archer3083

I also thought that it was very strange today that the substitutes that came on contributed nothing to the game. I was expecting Colm O'Neill to make a big impact when he came on at half time, but nothing from him either. And it also seems strange that Colm O'Neill didn't start the game. For all we know, maybe Cuthbert has fallen out with some of the players.

It was also a bit silly of Cuthbert to leave Walsh, Cadogan and Cahalane on the bench for the start of the Tipp game. He was obviously trying to make a political point but it backfired when he had to bring them on as subs to beat Tipp, and of course he had no choice but to start them today.

The_Kew_Tour

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Lads.... Why do we bother? :pac:

Also, what happened with the security? I heard them talking about it on the radio on the way home, I didn't see anything too strange up there today tbh

zetecescort

Archer3083 wrote: »

I also thought that it was very strange today that the substitutes that came on contributed nothing to the game. I was expecting Colm O'Neill to make a big impact when he came on at half time, but nothing from him either. And it also seems strange that Colm O'Neill didn't start the game. For all we know, maybe Cuthbert has fallen out with some of the players.

It was also a bit silly of Cuthbert to leave Walsh, Cadogan and Cahalane on the bench for the start of the Tipp game. He was obviously trying to make a political point but it backfired when he had to bring them on as subs to beat Tipp, and of course he had no choice but to start them today.

Colm ONeill can't do much if no ball being won at midfield. Not one Corkman with the attitude of " I'm winning the next ball even if I have to go through 3 kerryman to get it"

Think we are due to play Mayo in 1/4 final if we get through the qualifier but I fear they will do to us what they did to Donegal last year and possibly worse.

Figsy32

Where do you start in picking the bones out of that performance?

I never like to slate players who put in so much time and work in an amateur setting but that was a truly horrific performance.

Tactically we were naive and incredibly slow to react when things were so clearly not working. Firstly, to let Declan O'Sullivan have so much time and space to pull strings in the 'quarterback role' was crazy. It shouldn't come as a shock that this was a possibility but Cork weren't ready for it.

More importantly though, to allow so much space in front of the full back line was simply inept management. Cadogan and Shields are good defenders but leaving them so exposed against the likes of O'Donoghue leaves the with no chance.

Notwithstanding that though there just seemed to be a general lack of hunger, which is inexcusable. The greatest indicator of this is the breaking ball where Kerry out fought Cork today.

There was a marked absence of leadership. It's a young team admittedly, but lads who've been around a while, the likes of Shields, Gould and Kelly were non-existent. It's not good enough.

O'Halloran's kick outs hold everything back. Besides the lack of distance, he seems to have no ability to judge the flight or pace of his kicks. If Hanrahan is anyway viable he has to start the next day.

No slight on Clancy as a player but he can't play centre back at senior inter county level. Not good enough on the ball. You need to be able to pick a pass playing there. Has to be half back if starting IMO. I'm not sure Cahalane is up to it at this level yet.

In an ideal world Gould would be moved out of midfield and into half forward but is there a viable alternative next to Walsh?

We desperately need a link man to bridge defence and attack. So many times there isn't an outlet in the half line for the defence to find the pass and this slows everything down to crawling pace, leaving the opposition time to funnel back. Kerrigan is a good player but not a centre forward IMO. Collins fits the bill but he hasn't done it yet at this level. Ideally Paddy Kelly would get back to previous form but that seems a long way off atm.

Some people were making a lot of the dual players but I don't think they were any worse than anybody else. To judge the dual issue on this performance is madness, especially after the effect Cads and Walsh had on the Tipp game.

There was a general flatness. I heard during the week that there was a last minute shift from a sweeper system on the Monday before the game, and there was a general feeling of bemusement in the camp regarding Cuthbert. The performance here would seem to vindicate that but it's only one report.

Thankfully our side of the qualifiers looks kind enough so there's time and a game to reassess. It's hard to see that a big enough improvement is going to be made to get passed the quarter finals.

Archer3083

zetecescort wrote: »

Colm ONeill can't do much if no ball being won at midfield. Not one Corkman with the attitude of " I'm winning the next ball even if I have to go through 3 kerryman to get it"

Think we are due to play Mayo in 1/4 final if we get through the qualifier but I fear they will do to us what they did to Donegal last year and possibly worse.

I accept that Colm O'Neill didn't get proper supply but the point I was making is that the subs were just as bad as the players that started the game. Not even the subs could introduce any intensity. Sure Mark Collins, Colm O'Driscoll, Jamie O'Sullivan, Tomás Clancy or John Hayes made no impact. And they're not all forwards! In fact, Hayes best contribution was to elbow Declan O'Sullivan in the jaw and get sent off rather than putting the head down and trying to do something constructive. Compare the impact of today's subs with last year's Munster Final. Alan O'Connor and Pearse O'Neill had an immediate impact last year. At least Counihan was able to inspire those players last year to mount a comeback. Cuthbert simply couldn't inspire or motivate any of the players that started today or that came on as subs.

DD Mikasa

Dual players should pack in the football after that. Nothing to be gained by playing football, that's for sure.

keep going

This problem of cork teams being slow to react to a change of tacticd has always been there long before the current set up, it seems the way we train players or approachgames makes players unable to adjust themselves without the mmanagement drag them in at half time when usually the opposition is out of sight

Archer3083

DD Mikasa wrote: »

Dual players should pack in the football after that. Nothing to be gained by playing football, that's for sure.

It's ridiculous situation that all of the dual players started today even though they've missed a substantial amount of training. I'm not saying that these players are not worth their positions, but from a morale point of view, it must be very disruptive that dual players are able to miss training and still get their place on the team ahead of lads that are attending every training session.

magentis

Archer3083 wrote: »

It's ridiculous situation that all of the dual players started today even though they've missed a substantial amount of training. I'm not saying that these players are not worth their positions, but from a morale point of view, it must be very disruptive that dual players are able to miss training and still get their place on the team ahead of lads that are attending every training session.

Im sorry but the dual players looked to be the only ones that gave anything today.

Archer3083

magentis wrote: »

Im sorry but the dual players looked to be the only ones that gave anything today.

Ah come on, Aidan Walsh was abysmal in the centre of the park. He couldn't fetch one ball, his touch was terrible from start to finishe. Cadogan was badly exposed for touch and pace. To be fair, you couldn't fault Cahalane's commitment, but he was poor today

ShamoBuc

Cadogan was well and truly burned, Walsh looked jaded and young Cahalane looked as if he hasn't seen a football in weeks. You simply cannot play both hurling and football at the level Cork play in the modern era. Today was proof positive of that. To think otherwise would be foolish in the extreme.
Cuthbert had no game plan whatsoever. He gave the freedom of Páirc Ui Chaoimh to every Kerry player. He clearly does not have the players behind him. We will probably struggle away in the next match or two, if lucky, and possibly meet up with a Top team in the semi, maybe even Kerry, and we will get spanked again.

With a management that understand tactics and the players believce in, Cork would be close to getting Sam. At the moment, they couldn't even pull Samantha!

sean mac

magentis wrote: »

Im sorry but the dual players looked to be the only ones that gave anything today.

Im sorry too because you must have been watching a different game - damien cahalane was destroyed all day, never once got to a ball or won abreak, has never shown he has it for this level.
Walsh - one great point and that was it, couldnt catch a ball into his chest in the 2nd half, failed miserably to have any effect at midfield.
Cadogan - worst player in red for me, blown out of it by buckley at one stage - no way is that the sign of a fella giving everything, way behind his man, couldnt kick the ball.
While every player was poor, these 3 were very poor, little training done, no game splayed, no challenge games played and to think these fellas and the manager thought they could simply rock up and do a number on kerry??

Figsy32

It's way too simplistic to judge the dual players on today.

Cadogan and the whole full back line were left with no chance all day. There was acres of space for the Kerry forwards and a mountain of ball into them. No full back line would have held them.

Walsh took a knock early and it looked to have shook him. He was good early on. Added to this he was swamped in midfield and the kick outs were brutal. Don't forget that in just the last match he saved Cork.

Cahalane is a different story altogether. In my opinion he's not good enough yet. That's regardless of hurling or otherwise.

People are far too quick to judgement. It was a terrible performance, but it was a terrible performance by all of the players, not just the dual players. Singling them out is too simplistic an excuse.

keep going

Walsh while hecaught nothing got something on alot of kickouts but it was mopped up by kerry men.dualism wasnt the issue with the other 17 players and even though I was at the game the lack of appetite was even more obvious on telly with the whole lot of them

willietherock

Singling out the dual players for abuse is utterly pathetic. Every single Cork player was rubbish today. Not one single Cork player showed anything.
I think a lot of the younger players are massively overrated. Winning Munster U21 football titles is virtually meaningless given how poor the competition are. This yr being a classic example. Roscommon were humiliated in the final and yet a Cork were being talked up big time couldn't beat them. There was a massive hole left with the retirements and its going to take a few yrs to get back up the standard of competing for All Irelands.

sean mac

willietherock wrote: »

Singling out the dual players for abuse is utterly pathetic. Every single Cork player was rubbish today. Not one single Cork player showed anything.
I think a lot of the younger players are massively overrated. Winning Munster U21 football titles is virtually meaningless given how poor the competition are. This yr being a classic example. Roscommon were humiliated in the final and yet a Cork were being talked up big time couldn't beat them. There was a massive hole left with the retirements and its going to take a few yrs to get back up the standard of competing for All Irelands.

Thats all grand etc but the least a cork team should be able to do is compete with what kerry people themselves would admit is an average kerry team? all irelands are beyond this group not getting humiliated in their own ground is not

Archer3083

willietherock wrote: »

Singling out the dual players for abuse is utterly pathetic. Every single Cork player was rubbish today. Not one single Cork player showed anything.
I think a lot of the younger players are massively overrated. Winning Munster U21 football titles is virtually meaningless given how poor the competition are. This yr being a classic example. Roscommon were humiliated in the final and yet a Cork were being talked up big time couldn't beat them. There was a massive hole left with the retirements and its going to take a few yrs to get back up the standard of competing for All Irelands.

You obviously haven't been reading the posts carefully. No one is singling out the dual players for special treatment. The point has been clearly made that all of the players that played today including the subs were equally bad.

I don't think it's pathetic to suggest that the dual players touch was off today. It's quite understandable that this would be the case since they've miss alot of training over the last few weeks. I'm not sure how the dual players could have been up to the pitch of the game today if they've missed training sessions, the first half of the Tipp game and challenge games. It's not possible for them to serve 2 codes and 2 managers and still be just as sharp as the players that are training and playing football the whole time. It's a genuine cause of concern. I also think it's incredibly bad for team morale to have 3 dual players start while other players have completely dedicated themselves to football have to sit on the bench.

Most people in GAA firmly believe that dualism does not work and effectively should be stopped. Dónal Óg Cusack has stated this very point on the Sunday Game tonight in relation to Podge Collins and the Clare footballers. Davy has come out and made similar points. Dónal Ó Grady insisted on players picking one code or the other.

And this bunch of Cork players are not as bad as they appeared today. I think this bunch could easily challenge for All-Ireland glory. Let's remember that there really is only one elite team, and that is Dublin. Cork are definitely capable of reaching an All-Ireland final and are definitely capable of beating a Kerry, a Mayo or a northern team, but that will not happen under this current management. There is something dreadfully wrong when 20 players malfunction as badly as Cork did today. There is something dreadfully wrong when a Cork team gives up 5 mins into the 2nd time. There is something dreadfully wrong when Brian Cuthbert says in an interview on the Sunday Game that in the 2nd half they were only waiting for the game to end. And this 100% the fault of management. It has to be the fault of management when every single player is that poor.

sean mac

Well said archer, 100% agree, there is something very wrong in the camp. No excuse for the lack of effort/heart but the sooner this season is over the better methinks rather then getting another hammering in croke park from a big team. Harsh but true imo at least.

ultrapercy

Archer3083 wrote: »

You obviously haven't been reading the posts carefully. No one is singling out the dual players for special treatment. The point has been clearly made that all of the players that played today including the subs were equally bad.

I don't think it's pathetic to suggest that the dual players touch was off today. It's quite understandable that this would be the case since they've miss alot of training over the last few weeks. I'm not sure how the dual players could have been up to the pitch of the game today if they've missed training sessions, the first half of the Tipp game and challenge games. It's not possible for them to serve 2 codes and 2 managers and still be just as sharp as the players that are training and playing football the whole time. It's a genuine cause of concern. I also think it's incredibly bad for team morale to have 3 dual players start while other players have completely dedicated themselves to football have to sit on the bench.

Most people in GAA firmly believe that dualism does not work and effectively should be stopped. Dónal Óg Cusack has stated this very point on the Sunday Game tonight in relation to Podge Collins and the Clare footballers. Davy has come out and made similar points. Dónal Ó Grady insisted on players picking one code or the other.

And this bunch of Cork players are not as bad as they appeared today. I think this bunch could easily challenge for All-Ireland glory. Let's remember that there really is only one elite team, and that is Dublin. Cork are definitely capable of reaching an All-Ireland final and are definitely capable of beating a Kerry, a Mayo or a northern team, but that will not happen under this current management. There is something dreadfully wrong when 20 players malfunction as badly as Cork did today. There is something dreadfully wrong when a Cork team gives up 5 mins into the 2nd time. There is something dreadfully wrong when Brian Cuthbert says in an interview on the Sunday Game that in the 2nd half they were only waiting for the game to end. And this 100% the fault of management. It has to be the fault of management when every single player is that poor.

It never ceases to amaze me how in every code of sport the players are never to blame only the management.

Hotfail.com

Ruari Deane's injury was to his cruciate apparently..

menace404

I noticed something quite strange (and worrying from a Cork supporter) before the match started yesterday and that was the reaction of the crowd during the pre-match parade. I have never ever seen such a subdued and lackluster response from a crowd to the pre-match parade. I don't know if it was the 2pm throw in or what but it should not have mattered. This was Corks last ever home game in the old PUC and a Munster final against our greatest frenemy on top of that.....yet as the teams paraded around, there was a nonchalant whimper of an applause as the teams went around.
It was very negative and very dis-heartening. The players must have been asking themselves 'why the lack of atmosphere???' I think I was the only one in my section in the uncovered stand to get up and applaud the players as they passed the 45. A fellow cork lady supporter turned around and asked me to stop whistling as the teams passed. I gave here an earful and told her get her ass up and back the team.....but she was more worried about putting her coat on to protect her hair from the little shower that passed over head. Disgraceful stuff.

Animal Bar

I have 2 major opinions on yesterdays game.
1) Clancy at Center Back. This is killing this cork team. How on earth he came out for the second half and 2 half forwards were taken off is beyond me. Firstly lets look at his primary role, defender. He either marks Declan O' Sullivan who walked around yesterday without being touched and ran the show or if he is not marking Declan he sits in front of the full back line cutting out the bouncing ball into the full forward line. He did neither, I couldn't see at any stage he knew what he was doing. (This is not a personal attack on the guy) Surley Management need to select someone who follows declan like glue or a natural centre back who can read the game.
Ok people will say how is he killing the cork team. His second major function is to start the attack. He has no confidence to kick the ball. Runs were being made in the half forward line left and right and short but he never kicked the ball. He gets the pass from the full back line and slows down and then passes the buck and shifts the ball sideways. At this stage kerry have funnelled back and corks only attack is down the wings slowly. It was the same in the second half when he went there against Tipp he left the centre wide open.

2) Kickouts - I spoke about this after the last game and again yesterday it was the same story. Bomb the ball out the middle on top of two experienced fielders and declan O sullivan underneath to take the breaks. Why can he not kick the ball short(35m) to the wings. Infuriating. AGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH. If they dont change now Hannrahan has no point in being there as he is just being used to warm up Ken.

SeaFields

menace404 wrote: »

I noticed something quite strange (and worrying from a Cork supporter) before the match started yesterday and that was the reaction of the crowd during the pre-match parade. I have never ever seen such a subdued and lackluster response from a crowd to the pre-match parade. I don't know if it was the 2pm throw in or what but it should not have mattered. This was Corks last ever home game in the old PUC and a Munster final against our greatest frenemy on top of that.....yet as the teams paraded around, there was a nonchalant whimper of an applause as the teams went around.
It was very negative and very dis-heartening. The players must have been asking themselves 'why the lack of atmosphere???' I think I was the only one in my section in the uncovered stand to get up and applaud the players as they passed the 45. A fellow cork lady supporter turned around and asked me to stop whistling as the teams passed. I gave here an earful and told her get her ass up and back the team.....but she was more worried about putting her coat on to protect her hair from the little shower that passed over head. Disgraceful stuff.

To be honest that has always been the case. The atmosphere for the footballers is worlds apart from when the hurlers play.

ShamoBuc

SeaFields wrote: »

To be honest that has always been the case. The atmosphere for the footballers is worlds apart from when the hurlers play.

It will be the polar opposite next weekend. Every section of the ground will be on their feet as they pass, roaring, letting out some of the frustration from yesterday as well no doubt.

D'Agger

SeaFields wrote: »

No heart, no fight, no pride.

This sums it up perfectly for me. You could take a heavy defeat to Kerry if they were simply majestic, untouchable on the day but Cork just didn't work for it. They didn't have the hunger or commitment to try and win the match yesterday.

I know tactics played a large part in yesterdays result, but I've never seen a group of players look like they were involved in a friendly match as much as Cork yesterday - the character of the entire panel has to be called into question when not one person stood up and looked to lead in a munster final in the midst of a battering from your fiercest rivals.

Archer3083 wrote: »

I don't think the players are that bad. I really do think that management were responsible for the failures today, and against Tipperary. And I can't for the life understand why Kerry are so optimistic after this victory today. Kerry are no great shakes. When you play against a team that was as poor as Cork were today, you learn absolutely nothing.

There are good players on that team - I said that I expected Cork to win by 5 or more. Now I said that based on James O'Donogue & Johnny Buckley being out for the past 3/4 weeks with no ball work done, nobody could have predicted them playing that well imo

The tactics from Cork were poor - any fool could look at the match yesterday and say of Kerry - they were good, but we'll give them a tougher time at the breakdown & we'll slot a sweeper in front of JOD & Geaney to mop up - how on earth the Cork mgmt couldn't see that is beyond me!

Ultimately though, nobody on the Cork team looked to pick up the breaks like Kerry did, they were due a performance after the Tipp match, they were at home, it was their last match at the Old Lady Pairc Uí Chaoimh, against their biggest rivals - and yet they looked utterly spineless. They deserve to have their hunger questioned - regardless of management issues that may be underlying here - you don't allow yourself or your team to take that much of a tonking without giving everything - at least show the people who paid good money to support you that you're busting a gut to try and turn things around.

munsterlegend

Yesterday's performance was nothing short of a disgrace. how we persisted in kicking balls into midfield and losing every one of the breaks was laughable at times. i think we forget how valuable the leaders we had on our team such as canty and alan o connor. in fairness to walsh football wise I can't say i have ever seen him dominate a midfield area against kerry without o connor or o neill beside him. kerry broke every ball and were in like vultures as opposed to our lads standing back. its an art form such positioning and galvin was brilliant at it for kerry and walsh as well as others yesterday were winning it at their ease. i thought colm o driscoll did a bit better in the second half but the game was over at that stage. also kerry and the basic skills were vastly superior. we have plenty big athletic lads but with very little football. i also think dual players just can't survive at the top level.