Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Squareball

As an outsider looking in and as someone who has followed the game for a long time......I have to say Cork did not look ready from the start. All respect to Kerry, they were really sharp and their foot passing into the full forward line was a thing of beauty but Cork had nothing to counteract it. Cadogen was skinned alive all day. Going back to my first point I said it during the warm up that Cork did not look ready, they looked lethargic and sloppy and so it showed in the game. I know the league is not the same as the c'ship but how can a team perform so powerfully well in the first half against the Dubs earlier in the year and perform so badly for 70 minutes yesterday is amazing.
I would agree with most on here that the modern game has no place for the dual player. I think there is loads of football in the Cork team but clearly some issues on the sideline. The manager seems to have lost the plot somewhere and not sure he had much help on the sideline as all the changes he made had no effect.

westcork67

That was the most embarrassed and humiliated I have ever been at a Cork match - and I was there against Fermanagh and also when we had to suffer the taunts from the Kerry lads in 2007 outside Croke Park! The lack of pride in the jersey was what hurt the most. We have had beatings before from Kerry, but we have never capitulated so dismally in my recollection, and I have been going to Cork matches since being a young lad in the 70's.

What I cannot get my head around is how a bunch of lads can put their social life on hold, can put in hours and hours of dedication to training and matches, and they can go out on our home pitch for the last time before it is demolished, and play as if they couldn't give a ****e! All I had to do was get in the car, spend a €100 or so on tickets and petrol from the West of Ireland and I feel gutted. How they should feel versus how they do feel this morning are I am guessing a long way apart going by the effort they put in yesterday. Either way I am gutted!

For me this is not about whether it is the fault of the manager, or dual players, or the CCB - they all stand indicted by what happened in Cork yesterday! First time I felt ashamed to be represented by a team in Red.

Connorzee

Moving swiftly on to the hurling next weekend. Ellis is out and Cadogan (yes cadogan, not Egan) will replace him at CB,

westcork67

Connorzee wrote: »

Moving swiftly on to the hurling next weekend. Ellis is out and Cadogan (yes cadogan, not Egan) will replace him at CB,

Well at least he won't be too tired after this weekend

Figsy32

Connorzee wrote: »

Moving swiftly on to the hurling next weekend. Ellis is out and Cadogan (yes cadogan, not Egan) will replace him at CB,

Source?

If it's true I wouldn't be completely against it. The big caveat of course is that Cadogan is going okay in training, his touch is at the required level.. etc.

We've desperately lacked a presence in the centre of our defence in recent years (Although Ellis and Cahalane to a lesser extent look like they'll fit the bill in that regard.)

Say what you want about Cadogan, but he'll provide that. A physical presence will be needed no matter who is playing centre-forward for Limerick, be it O'Grady, Hannon or Downes. In terms of match ups and horses for courses I think it's a decent selection.

Egan has always flattered to deceive IMO. He has so much potential but seems to go missing. For me personally, it'll be hard to shake the image of him being destroyed by Conlan in the AI last year.

Amprodude

Lads what do you expect with Cork football? We couldnt beat poorer Kerry teams with better players. I just dont frustrate myself with them anymore. Politics with the gaa in Cork annoys me. I hope they are hammered out of the championship so that we dont meet Kerry again. Save your money for the hurlers.

keane2097

Munster final 2013 Cahalane taken off in first half injury time, Cadogan called ashore at half time and Aidan Walsh part of a midfield utterly taken apart until the introduction of Alan O'Connor and Pearse O'Neill.

sean mac

keane2097 wrote: »

Munster final 2013 Cahalane taken off in first half injury time, Cadogan called ashore at half time and Aidan Walsh part of a midfield utterly taken apart until the introduction of Alan O'Connor and Pearse O'Neill.

And yet somehow we are led to believe that these 3 lads can somehow improve their football to a level to compete with Kerry by devoting half that time again to the big ball...........only in cork

Figsy32

keane2097 wrote: »

Munster final 2013 Cahalane taken off in first half injury time, Cadogan called ashore at half time and Aidan Walsh part of a midfield utterly taken apart until the introduction of Alan O'Connor and Pearse O'Neill.

Don't always agree with him but John Fogarty talks a huge amount of sense on the dual players in the Examiner today.

sean mac

Figsy32 wrote: »

Don't always agree with him but John Fogarty talks a huge amount of sense on the dual players in the Examiner today.

Personnally I would think the likes of tony mcentee all Ireland winner and coach have to say about it rather then a hack in the examiner

Figsy32

sean mac wrote: »

Personnally I would think the likes of tony mcentee all Ireland winner and coach have to say about it rather then a hack in the examiner

McEntee has great experience regarding dual players I suppose?

All I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to pick out and castigate the 3 dual players when ALL the Cork players were poor the last day. People don't seem to be able to accept that the 3 lads had an off day like everyone else. There must be a greater reason for their performance, but not anybody else's. It's crazy.

There are also a lot of very short memories. Walsh and to a lesser extent Cadogan saved us against Tipperary. I don't remember people complaining he looked out of nick then when Walsh kicked 3 beautiful scores and fielded the ball beautifully.

Give them to the end of the year and reassess then.

sean mac

Figsy32 wrote: »

McEntee has great experience regarding dual players I suppose?

All I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to pick out and castigate the 3 dual players when ALL the Cork players were poor the last day. People don't seem to be able to accept that the 3 lads had an off day like everyone else. There must be a greater reason for their performance, but not anybody else's. It's crazy.

There are also a lot of very short memories. Walsh and to a lesser extent Cadogan saved us against Tipperary. I don't remember people complaining he looked out of nick then when Walsh kicked 3 beautiful scores and fielded the ball beautifully.

Give them to the end of the year and reassess then.

Were you there? let me tell you, walsh came on before half time and made zero impact on the game until the last 3 minutes of normal time, he looked then like sunday that he has been away from football for a ling time. The guy has oodles of ability but his football has suffered big time this year, any game where he dominated like he can?? as for cadogan last year he was injured and this year he has played almost no football and it showed, at one stage on sunday he went to kick and stopped and hand passed the ball.
Has fogarty ever handled dual players? ya, correct as stupid as your own comment.
Cork are living in fantsy land if they think a full back, wing back and midfielder can simply pick it up for a game at this level, its an insult to the game of football which actually requires skill training and knowledge of routine/tactics etc
The 3 together are not the sole reason cork lost, but they are certainly part of the reason cork are going no where in 2014.

Figsy32

sean mac wrote: »

Were you there? let me tell you, walsh came on before half time and made zero impact on the game until the last 3 minutes of normal time, he looked then like sunday that he has been away from football for a ling time. The guy has oodles of ability but his football has suffered big time this year, any game where he dominated like he can?? as for cadogan last year he was injured and this year he has played almost no football and it showed, at one stage on sunday he went to kick and stopped and hand passed the ball.
Has fogarty ever handled dual players? ya, correct as stupid as your own comment.
Cork are living in fantsy land if they think a full back, wing back and midfielder can simply pick it up for a game at this level, its an insult to the game of football which actually requires skill training and knowledge of routine/tactics etc
The 3 together are not the sole reason cork lost, but they are certainly part of the reason cork are going no where in 2014.

Regarding McEntee, it was as justifiable as your own comment. McEntee has the same experience as Fogarty when it comes to dual players was my point. Don't forget Walsh has an All-Ireland in his pocket too and he thinks he can make it work.

I was there against Tipp. When the chips were down and Cork needed Walsh, he stepped up. As well as this Tipp have a superb midfielder in O'Brien who dominated the first half. His influence was much less when Walsh came on. Cadogan added much needed drive and go forward with the ball which was sorely lacking in the first half. Their introduction was the decisive influence on the game.

Cadogan has always been indecisive with the ball in his hand. He's always been the same in the hurling too. I vividly remember my heart being in my mouth with some of his hand passes when he played full back for the hurlers. It's not a new development.

If you want them gone from the football, please tell me who you would pick in front of them? Walsh is the only viable midfielder in the county and Cadogan is well established in the back line. Neither the hurlers or footballers can do without them.

Cahalane's a slightly different story IMO as I'm not sure he's quite at inter county level yet, although he should be in the future.

willietherock

sean mac wrote: »

Were you there? let me tell you, walsh came on before half time and made zero impact on the game until the last 3 minutes of normal time, he looked then like sunday that he has been away from football for a ling time. The guy has oodles of ability but his football has suffered big time this year, any game where he dominated like he can?? as for cadogan last year he was injured and this year he has played almost no football and it showed, at one stage on sunday he went to kick and stopped and hand passed the ball.
Has fogarty ever handled dual players? ya, correct as stupid as your own comment.
Cork are living in fantsy land if they think a full back, wing back and midfielder can simply pick it up for a game at this level, its an insult to the game of football which actually requires skill training and knowledge of routine/tactics etc
The 3 together are not the sole reason cork lost, but they are certainly part of the reason cork are going no where in 2014.

Anyone pinning what happened on Sunday on dualism is a numpty. The Cork football fiasco starts with the Cork football management continues onto to every single player. McAntee knows nothing about dual players. He's from Armagh and Crossmaglen ffs!The backlash against hurling after last Sunday has been pathetic.

sean mac

willietherock wrote: »

Anyone pinning what happened on Sunday on dualism is a numpty. The Cork football fiasco starts with the Cork football management continues onto to every single player. McAntee knows nothing about dual players. He's from Armagh and Crossmaglen ffs!The backlash against hurling after last Sunday has been pathetic.

Who is pinning it all on them???????? Its an element of the problem, As for mcentee he knows what it takes to win at this level. As for the backlash on hurling, give over ffs wasn't it 3 great hurling men in frank, bob ryan and ger lane who appointed the great Cuthbert to the role. Lets not forget this man led bishopstown to a county quarter final (as per the ccb press release on his appointment)

Archer3083

I agree with Sean Mac here, nobody is pinning the failure of last Sunday on the 3 dual players, but it has to be a consideration! There are plenty of people who are opposed to dualism! Liam Dunne got Lee Chin to pick hurling only this year. Davy Fitz doesn't want Podge Collins playing football, but his father is the Clare football manager, so much more difficult situation. Counihan stopped all the dual players playing hurling last year! And is it any surprise that no one is playing dual for Dublin? Dublin has more potential dual players than any other county and not a single player has opted for both codes cos they simply weren't allowed. Even Conall Keaney selected hurling only. The simple fact of the matter is that you can't be better at a sport that you give half your time to than players who give their full time! Simple!

Figsy32

Archer3083 wrote: »

I agree with Sean Mac here, nobody is pinning the failure of last Sunday on the 3 dual players, but it has to be a consideration! There are plenty of people who are opposed to dualism! Liam Dunne got Lee Chin to pick hurling only this year. Davy Fitz doesn't want Podge Collins playing football, but his father is the Clare football manager, so much more difficult situation. Counihan stopped all the dual players playing hurling last year! And is it any surprise that no one is playing dual for Dublin? Dublin has more potential dual players than any other county and not a single player has opted for both codes cos they simply weren't allowed. Even Conall Keaney selected hurling only. The simple fact of the matter is that you can't be better at a sport that you give half your time to than players who give their full time! Simple!

But it's everybody's go to excuse/primary topic when something does go wrong.
Again, there was no mention of this after the Tipp football game or any of the hurling games this Summer when they were vital.

It's incredibly unfair to single these lads out above all the other players when they're giving more to Cork Gaa than anybody at the minute. (and don't say they're not being singled out, just go back a page or two.)

To your last point, that's exactly the *problem*, because they are better than people who do just one sport. Like I asked earlier and unsurprisingly got no response, tell me the lads you'd start ahead of Cadogan,Cahalane and especially Walsh for the next game in either code?

They're important to both panels and losing them would weaken the panel more than it would gain the other IMO.

Archer3083

Figsy32 wrote: »

But it's everybody's go to excuse/primary topic when something does go wrong.
Again, there was no mention of this after the Tipp football game or any of the hurling games this Summer when they were vital.

It's incredibly unfair to single these lads out above all the other players when they're giving more to Cork Gaa than anybody at the minute. (and don't say they're not being singled out, just go back a page or two.)

To your last point, that's exactly the *problem*, because they are better than people who do just one sport. Like I asked earlier and unsurprisingly got no response, tell me the lads you'd start ahead of Cadogan,Cahalane and especially Walsh for the next game in either code?

They're important to both panels and losing them would weaken the panel more than it would gain the other IMO.

To be fair, this was an issue before the Tipp game. Cuthbert deliberately left the dual players on the bench. He clearly stated prior to the game that he could not start them because they did not have enough football. But like so many other things in life, the winner is always right. And Cork beat Tipp, even if it was a very late and maybe undeserved vicitory, Cork still won, and the end justifies the means.

On the point of who I would start ahead of them. Well I'm going to frame my answer in this manner. I don't think the footballers are going to do any good this year, so I would let all of those players go with the hurlers for the rest of the year except for Cadogan maybe. I think Cadogan is probably a better footballer and has contributed very little to the hurlers. I would love to see Maguire, Dinneen or Nation in midfield, and look to the future. I don't think Aidan Walsh is capable of both codes, I don't think any player is. I think he has to make his own decision, but if I was Cuthbert, I'd cut him and Cahalane loose now and focus on developing other players for next year. Let's be fair, if Cork win their qualifier, they'll most likely be beaten by a provincial champion in a quarter-final. As much as I hate to believe or think it, that's being realistic. How is it going to profit Walsh or Cahalane to keep going with the footballers if that's what they've got to look forward to...

keep going

A couple of questions, why do jbm and cuthbert want these players if they feel that they have better players who are dedicated to one code and I always felt that it was your hurling touch would suffer first in a dual role rather than football, am i mistaken

Gary Neville

Figsy32 wrote: »

But it's everybody's go to excuse/primary topic when something does go wrong.
Again, there was no mention of this after the Tipp football game or any of the hurling games this Summer when they were vital.

It's incredibly unfair to single these lads out above all the other players when they're giving more to Cork Gaa than anybody at the minute. (and don't say they're not being singled out, just go back a page or two.)

To your last point, that's exactly the *problem*, because they are better than people who do just one sport. Like I asked earlier and unsurprisingly got no response, tell me the lads you'd start ahead of Cadogan,Cahalane and especially Walsh for the next game in either code?

They're important to both panels and losing them would weaken the panel more than it would gain the other IMO.

It's a very difficult issue to adjudicate on. We'd have lost to Tipp without AW. However, it was obvious if AW was going to fulfill his undoubted potential at football, he would have to work harder on some aspects of his game. Due to hurling, he's had to forego the extra work needed.

Right now, we've gone from being serious contenders to also-rans in football and it'll take massive committment to get us back into contention next season.

I'd be very surprised if Cork's football manager will consider dual players next season.

I'd say Cahalane and AW will stick to hurling and Cadogan will stay at football. I can't see Alan Cadogan try both.

Figsy32

Gary Neville wrote: »

It's a very difficult issue to adjudicate on. We'd have lost to Tipp without AW. However, it was obvious if AW was going to fulfill his undoubted potential at football, he would have to work harder on some aspects of his game. Due to hurling, he's had to forego the extra work needed.

Right now, we've gone from being serious contenders to also-rans in football and it'll take massive committment to get us back into contention next season.

I'd be very surprised if Cork's football manager will consider dual players next season.

I'd say Cahalane and AW will stick to hurling and Cadogan will stay at football. I can't see Alan Cadogan try both.

Yeah, I agree with and understand where you're coming from.

However the way I see it is that even without him being at 100% he's still by far and away our best midfielder, arguably our best player. I wouldn't be in a rush to throw him away.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Alan Cadogan try it next year or the year after to be honest. Next year he'll be out of U21s and the year after finished with college. That significantly reduces the workload, particularly at the start of the year.

D'Agger

Am I alone in thinking that Walsh should be taken out of Midfield for the footballers and played at centre forward where he'll cause more problems - he could also do a Declan O'Sullivan on it and drop deep to receive the ball and either carry or look to pop ball into space - I've seen him play in both positions and centre is where I think he'd serve Cork best

Hippobear

From now on, anytime i go to see our Football team play, I can say "its just like watching Brazil"

btownboy

Thanks Hippobear for that - I was feeling fairly despondent about Sunday but that is just hilarious! And very true to boot. The parallels were remarkable!

Anyway let's hope for a great day on Sunday - I still have no ticket but fingers crossed...

rebel girl 15

Cahalane a big doubt for Sunday, had to get stitches in his foot after stepping on a vial in the shower after Sunday - freak injury really

btownboy

What about Ellis? Is he in/out for selection?

Deco99

D'Agger wrote: »

Am I alone in thinking that Walsh should be taken out of Midfield for the footballers and played at centre forward where he'll cause more problems - he could also do a Declan O'Sullivan on it and drop deep to receive the ball and either carry or look to pop ball into space - I've seen him play in both positions and centre is where I think he'd serve Cork best

Not very good at either of these i'm afraid. Can carry ball in straight lines at speed alright but there's no guile or craft there. He's our David Luiz as the parallels between Cork and Brazil were being met. Storms up the pitch to get the big score but neglects his main duty of ballwinner/holding the middle.

ShamoBuc

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Cahalane a big doubt for Sunday, had to get stitches in his foot after stepping on a vial in the shower after Sunday - freak injury really

Heard it wasn't a freak injury. Vial had been broken after morphene was given to Deane. Firstly the vial shouldn't have ended up broken in the shower room. Secondly, it should have been cleaned up properly. Totally avoidable unfortunately. Hopefully he'll still be okay for Sunday.

menace404

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Heard it wasn't a freak injury. Vial had been broken after morphene was given to Deane. Firstly the vial shouldn't have ended up broken in the shower room. Secondly, it should have been cleaned up properly. Totally avoidable unfortunately. Hopefully he'll still be okay for Sunday.

Cahalane should have been wearing flip flops in the shower room. One should be extra careful. God only knows what you could pick up in some GAA clubs' showers around the county, nevermind what you could catch in the PUC showers. Stuff growing in there since the 70's, Donal Og's hair still clogged in the drains.....yuck! It all gives the place its character i suppose .

willietherock

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Heard it wasn't a freak injury. Vial had been broken after morphene was given to Deane. Firstly the vial shouldn't have ended up broken in the shower room. Secondly, it should have been cleaned up properly. Totally avoidable unfortunately. Hopefully he'll still be okay for Sunday.

It wouldn't have happened if he wasn't a dual player!