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Cork GAA Discussion Thread
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Pa O'Callaghan opted out. Twomey still very young. Surprised Kelleher isn't involved.
That team is missing O'Callaghan, Micheal Cahalane, Sweetnam, Kieran Histon and I assume Walsh, Dennehy and Kevin O'Keeffe are all injured as well or surely they would be starting.
Mind you even with all of them I'd expect them to lose. Rickard Cahalane is the best prospect on the panel outside of the lads on the senior squad. Cian Buckley is also supposed to be in fine form.
Where are the two lads I've highlighted gone? Michael Cahalane was on the senior panel in the league this year?0 -
Cahalane has a serious illness. Histon played for the Cork U-21 footballers, so I assume he is concentrating only on football. If he was involved but injured you would think he would be listed somewhere.0
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Do any of ye know lads if any of the Cork radio stations will be doing the U21 game tonight live?0
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Pa O'Callaghan opted out. Twomey still very young. Surprised Kelleher isn't involved.
That team is missing O'Callaghan, Micheal Cahalane, Sweetnam, Kieran Histon and I assume Walsh, Dennehy and Kevin O'Keeffe are all injured as well or surely they would be starting.
Mind you even with all of them I'd expect them to lose. Rickard Cahalane is the best prospect on the panel outside of the lads on the senior squad. Cian Buckley is also supposed to be in fine form.
From talking to a few people yesterday I don't think Kevin O'Keeffe is injured, said it was a big suprise he didn't make it0 -
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From talking to a few people yesterday I don't think Kevin O'Keeffe is injured, said it was a big suprise he didn't make it
Nah he's definitely not injured. He's no longer playing in the forwards for Blackrock, operating in midfield. Competition is stiff there to be fair. Arguably two of our best three are elsewhere on the pitch as well.0 -
Its very sad that one of the best talents in Cork ,that would walk on any U21 team in ireland is not involved with Cork this year,in Pa O Callaghan.Fintan o toole named him in hes top 10 in May at this grade,to be stars.
Such a talent that jbm wanted him but he declined over a back injury and the commitment at senior,as he needs to be fully fit.
He was delighted to be asked by jbm.
IMO its hard to believe that he couldnt play u21,as hes flying for Ballyhea in intermediate grade. .If you had a top class manager like jbm,for example,as u21 is just 4 games in the year,you would think could an arrangement suit both been done.
I respect Pa's decision ,wouldnt blame the lad at all.
This isnt new breaking news,i said in march after ist game v clare challenge he wouldnt be involved.
Also i mentioned it was doubtful if another player ,would still be involved as was considering not joining.Hes there ,thank god,but on the panel only.
This u21 team,i pray to god they win ,I hope im wrong,but i fear a big loss to waterford .Fitness wont be a problem under the excellent David Matthews,however real tactical nous ,game management skills , that i soley base this on Pat kenneally poor record as minor coach,i fear is going to undo Cork.
Frank flannery a super trainer now with waterford seniors meant the minors last yere were fit,yet playing around 10 team out of position and Sean hayes(future cork senior),good enough that i would call up to intertermediate panel,coudnt even get a game,cost cork dearly last year.
Michael cahalane isnt able to play , thats not management fault to be fair to them.I wish Michael nothing but the best for the future.
Another young Cork hurler,had a similar injury scare but thankfully he got the all clear.
Another real potential star of the game,dual coming up the ranks may sadly be lost to the game,due to injury.I hope hes okay to play but at the end of the day hes health is a priority.I wish the lad the best also.
Whatever happens like Michael,there a credit to Cork,both on and off the field.Two fine young men and they will be successful whatever they do.
However beating tipp in a challenge and beating a poor offaly team by over 20 points ,we shouldnt get carried away .The tipp game showed up a lot faults in fermoy last week in a challenge yet those faults have clearly by this team picked not been learnt.
Same with minors last year,played final challenge v newtown yet the weakness werent rectified.
Looking at that team theres 6 lads at least imo ,playing out of position.If mindset which i expect with a peter queally coached waterford team,to be spot on,they could beat us well.It is baffling ,absouley baffling,Mark Sugrue isnt starting.To win in waterford,Cork need leaders ,not just hurlers.
Sugrue has played Mcgrath cup senior football and trained with them.Hes a big game player with a superb attuide.U21 Munster football final last year,man of the match and got a goal.Against Kerry in Cork and again in tralee he stood up and got 3 crucial points.Against tipp and in the Semi final against Roscommon he stood up when needed ,got a vital goal v Roscommon.Last year Ger Fitz ,made a crucial mistake not starting him v tipp yet he got a super goal as a sub.
He played as a sub against tipp intermediate final two weeks ago,got a goal and a point,created a goal and at least two points.
Junior football against kerry in tralee against a kerry team that were always going to win it was new cork team over being champions he had a good game,worked tireselly all eveining.
Point is,hes a proven,in both codes at all levels,even cork minors in 2010 footballers. He Has 3 years expierence at least as a u 21 with so much big game expierence.
As far as im aware he had shoulder injury im, however he played in Kerry u21 football game and has been playing recently and ifs hes on the bench he must be fit to start.
My fear,is the minors and u21 hurlers last few years,due to systmatic failure of systems as a team,these talented hurlers will be made look poorer than what they are mainly due to positional abnormaility.
Positional suitabilty can make a huge difference just ask,Mcdonnell,Lorchan,Joyce who are having superb seasons due to playing in their best positions and being left there,and lehane illustrated my point also,at half forward hes unmarkable.Full foward a shadow of himself.Jbm ,learned from past mistakes.
Rob o shea had great game at midfield against tipp last year yet we box him in the corner
Colm Barry ,superb half back for Intermediates isnt a full back.Spillane,should be there.Histon not even on the panel.Burke is a fine hurler,not a centre back.Twomey is not too young,Glesson, daly are just out of minor with waterford.Cian lynch was minor ,but played u21 this year.
There is a few lads not starting, that should be,it has nothing do with injuries.
I wont blame the players or judge them , i geuinely believe in judging lads only if they have top manager..I base that soley on hes record as a manager.
The talent is in Cork but again in the aftermath of a defeat just like the football at senior,players will be blamed,management wont be. Like the football,no hard questions or real hard analisyis former Cork greats take place,we have to rely on other countites to call a spade a spade,tell it like it is,not paper over the cracks.
After Cork were beaten by Clare in 2012,all he could cling to was in hes interview,was bleep test,etc ,gym test,were bang on and he had to mention of course the record number of trial games played.He was at a loss over that defeat.Yet out of 250 players he trialled he couldnt pick 15 best Cork hurlers.
There was a great honest article in May in the southern star before the ist game questioning Kenneally credentials in lead up to 2012 limerick game.
Yet 2 years on i have yet to read an article really questioning hes record.Surely its okay to question a Managers record.I hope im wrong and Cork win,and if Cork won a Munster,i would glady compliment the manager.But if Cork loose ,it wont get much attention.The glory of Sunday,will allow the powers to be ,the momentum to let the loss just pass by without any real inquest.
At the County Board last year,Bob Ryan said last year minors team was the best prepared in years.That is simply not true imo. Bob got in the photo of Cork Team with the cup Sunday.
However if u bask in the glory surely you must take note when there is a famine at underage.They solved the problem ,credit due at minor with Ring and Landers,but they didnt at u21
To compare last years and this year minor set up,anyone closely watching them will say it was worlds apart in ,this years minors had a game plan,had direction,real belief ,got every last inch out of the players.Considering there was Hayes,Lee,Kinery,Browne,etc all involved in club games in the week up to the game,and two key players,casey and o brien got injured early on,away from home,it was a huge performance .Limerick are a fine team ,their only side that has a real geuine chance of an all ireland(intermediate,u21 senior are miles of an all ireland for the next few years with their old school management).
I dont do moral victories,however as i said in February ,in a minor post ,Cork had a huge ask but would push limerick all the way.
That Cork team went to limerick to win.
Tony considine who coached killmallock , was a huge fan of some killmallock lads with Limerick said he is huge fans but questioned their selections and hes right to do so.Hes paid to do a job,anayalse a game.I said it many times here,For the Greater good Cork Gaa we need people to question things when there wrong,
not go with the flow .
Similar to Brian Cuthbhert last week,defiant attuide ,wasnt apologising to the Cork public for our worst defeat in 4o years,as if hes blameless.Management must be held accountable at all levels. To assess the chance of any team at the start of any campaign you start at Management.
The win Sunday showed,the talent is t0 -
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Welcome back, a more in depth post the next time please;)0 -
A player who refuses to play for his county , rarely achieves much and it shows a lack of ambition. Hard to see Cork getting a victory in Waterford tonight.0
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Perhaps not on a GAA pitch but declining to play for a county team might be down to different ambitions - representing a county is not the be all and end all for everybody and many players fall out of love with the game due to the commitment required to play at that level.A player who refuses to play for his county , rarely achieves much and it shows a lack of ambition. Hard to see Cork getting a victory in Waterford tonight.0 -
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Some lads need a break, it can help them rather than hurt them.0
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I'd agree with TTM that a lot of lads are playing out of position. I think the selectors are stuck between a rock and a hard place though because there's a severe shortage of quality forwards at this age, especially with Pa Callaghan, Michael Cahalane etc.
Rob O'Shea is definitely a natural midfielder but he's more than capable I the corner too. Was it against Ballyhea last year he scored 4 goals when moved inside?
If people remember the club minor championship when this age group was minor Colm Spillane shot Castlelyons to a county final from centre forward. Again it's not his best position but they're majorly struggling for scoring forwards.
Sugrue should start without a doubt.0 -
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Welcome back TTM1, don't always agree with your posts but never doubt your in depth knowledge. We have missed you.0
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In regards Pa callaghan, ,its nothing to do with ambition with Pa or desire or want to play for Cork.You would wonder if there was another manager in charge ,would Pa play.
I dont blame Pa at all at all.He feels hes better served sticking to hes club.The real question should be Could Cork have done anything different to get him to play.If ,Pa,fell out of the love of the game(unlikely as hes playing club)its easy to understand when hes been with Cork teams that have been beaten most times heavily.
The lad is a real talent and been superb on previous badly coached minor teams.If this lad had worked with Landers or Ring or Jbm,he would develop further.Hes got it all,and a superb temparament and is outstanding with Ballyhea.
One point,regards Cork U21 failure at hurling is since 1964 since the u21 championship started every Cork Senior all ireland winning team had an u21 medalist with them.Cork will rewrite History in if we win in September at Senior this year, were the ist team Cork to win a senior All ireland without an u21 medalist since 1964.
We have just one all ireland medal winner from underage,that was Minor in 2001,when Anthony Nash was an used sub at just 16.
Just 4 of the lads starting sunday have Munster u21 and Minor medals but Egan and Paudie came on as subs.Some believe that u21 success isnt that important as the senior won the weekend.
However if anything it proves how hard a job,JBM had,and what a magnificent job he done in getting Cork to win a Munster with a famine at underage.
The 3 years jbm had,have i firmly believe been made tougher than what it could have been as he had no success to build on.
Its not even that Cork have to win All irelands all the time,but win Munster and at least get to All ireland Finals.
Thats the point in Cork thats its not just the lack of winning,its how poor we actually have become in out of all our talents at u21 last year with Joyce,lehane,Coughlan etc not one single Cork Player got nominated for the inaugral U21 team of the year.No way were Cork that bad.But they were a shambles against Tipp and it was down directly imo to management.Fair play to Ger Fitz in unlike some managers he apoligsed for the Shambles but still it doesnt excuse he had 4 years at the helm,and begs the question how he was given the a new term.
Its great that Blackrock have a lot involved and its on merit as with underage they have huge success and got to the County u21 final last year and put up a real fight in trying to retain their title.A mark of True Champions.
However some of their lads shouldnt be on the panel while for example others like Niall Cashman should be there imo.He played U21 for club last year and was outstanding in a cracking County final against Midelton,like hes father plucking ball after ball out of the sky.If hes not injured he should be here.A superb hurler off both sides.
Niall cashman,Murphy and Barry would be a solid half back line.
I think stephen murphy is a future Cork Corner Back but would have been ideal as a half foward here as he can score and played there for Blackrock ,got 1-4 v carriglaine in quater final had had a great County final and is superb at long distance points.A super man to take a 65 or a free.Murphy and Sugrue would offer better balance at half foward,in ball winning and Scoring
O shea has played at Full forward and had hes moments but against top players he lacks the space he needs inside.
He wont get anything soft of last years Minor Captain Kevin Daly.O shea was superb at midfield last year when he had only Brian murray with him.With Cahalane he would be much better and if cork are to win they have to score long distance and he can do that.
Kevin O Keoffe had a superb County final,an off day from frees but 4 superb points from play and would be ideal with Cadogan inside with Anthony Spillane.In that quater final he got 1-3 from play.
Theres plenty of other options Management could have on the panel..Dillion Cahill if availble.Sean Hayes would be an ideal sub.He has trained with minors all year,super condition and the Confidence landers etc gave him,he is in superb form.He Would be an ideal Sub and like Mark O Connor its ideal to have them involved as they will be next year elgible for the grade.
Hayes was Outstanding for Avondu v ucc in hes Senior Club debut with a goal and caused he's opponent Glynn, huge problems.
For Mallow hes been outstanding and scoring goals.He was unmarkable against Limerick in the minor and won lots of ball in the air.
So Cork has loads of options and just cause the manager doesnt use them is not that they are not there.
But this is the same manager that saw him get two goals in minor challenge against the Dubs weeks up to the Cork game last year yet didnt play him.
Hes a future Senior and i wont be Suprised if he is called up to the Intermediate team if injuries happen.He is a super talent.
Like seamus Harnedys wrong ommision as an used sub in the 2011 u21 Munster Final,that decision was reflective of management in Ger Fitzgerald,Hayes was a prime example like Kevin o Keoffe,Mark Sugrue in that no matter how good you are ,some you just cant please.
You would hope waterford don't turn up tonight however Peter Queally as he showed with Ballygunner and youghal is a fine coach.Maybe the saving grace is they have one eye on the Senior game at the weekend.
There is going to like in any game at any level a period of time in a game where a player is struggling or an aera of the field a team struggles and its the manager that reacts the quickest decides the game.Purely on the records of both id say Queally holds the aces.
Id love to be wrong as despite sundays Great Win we Badly need an u21 hurling Win.
Cormac Murphy and Colm Barry have played as a unit in Intermdiates and have an understanding,that would help nulify waterford.Barry got cleaned out at full back at minor against tipp before.If its happen tonight its not hes fault.
Spillane has played for both club and at intermediate at half forward but is needed in the backs and would free up a slot for Sugrue.
Killan Burke would be ideal in the Corner where he had an outstanding u 21 county final and compliment Spillane (only Club full back in Cork to hold Cussen in Cork county last year in the drawn Sars v ucc game.He was on Cork club team of the year.Its not beyond possibitly he struggles tonight and made look poorer than what he is ,out of Position.
Spillane is a future cork player if he can stay injury free.Buckley in the other corner is fine.
It is great Blackrock and rightly so have a selector here,however my choice would have been Wayne Sherlock.A top,top young Coach who is extremely shrewd and highely thought of. He Should be developed by Cork.
I wish Cork the best of Luck tonight and hope they win.0 -
Great win for the U-21s tonight!
Bórd Gáis Energy Munster U21 Hurling Semi-Final Waterford 0-16 Cork 3-180 -
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Very happy with that result0 -
well done to all concerned. great result and great to keep the good feeling going.
tipp-clare in extra time. tipp 1-21 clare 3-17 after 6 min of first period0 -
Any reports? Super result, credit to them.0
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Cork produced a superb second half performance to defeat Waterford at Walsh Park and advance to the Munster U21 Hurling Final.
Report from GAA.IE
Waterford led at the break, but three Cork goals after the restart transformed the game, and remarkably, the Rebels were 11-point winners at the end. They achieved the win despite the sending off of Cormac Murphy, who was sent off with 15 minutes to go.
Waterford held a minimal advantage at the interval, leading 0-11 to 0-10 after a very close and competitive opening 30 minutes.
Austin Gleeson, Ray Barry and Jake Dillon were on target early on for Waterford, but Cork kept in touch through Alan Cadogan to trail 0-7 to 0-5 after 15 minutes.
With Cadogan causing trouble for the Déise defence, Cork drew level at 0-9 each, but Waterford finished the half with two points from Gleeson to lead going in.
However, Cork restored parity after the restart and then Cadogan found the net after 34 minutes to put the visitors three ahead. The second Cork goal, 10 minutes later from Anthony Spillane, put Cork seven ahead.
The dismissal of Murphy just before this had threatened to derail Cork's momentum but it had no effect whatsoever and if anything, spurred Cork on even further.
Their third goal came five minutes from time from Spillane, and by then Waterford had completely fallen apart. They scored just five points in the second half to 3-8 from Cork, and that huge swing sent Cork comfortably through. Cork will play Clare in the Final on July 30th
Final Score Cork 3-18 Waterford 0-16 Attendance 3,7170 -
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Muskerry beat Duhallow in senior championship tonight 0-15 to 0-14. Fintan Goold played well for Muskerry at midfield scoring the winning point following a great run.
Goulding, Cathal Vaughan, Martin O'Connor and Rory Buckley very good for Muskerry also.
Walsh, Seamus O'Sullivan and Donnacha O'Connor were good for Duhallow.
Muskerry meet St. Nicks next and would be favourites to get over that. They will only get stronger for the games and will be difficult opponents for anyone as the championship progresses0 -
Ah TTM, tis yourself. Good to see you.
A great week for Cork hurling, and it just goes to show how important state of mind and momentum are in sport. Imagine how the team feel with players like Cadogan togging out after winning a very tough Munster championship on Sunday! We made lots of mistakes on Sunday and managed to pull away at the end. Lots of work to do, but we can't underestimate the momentum we have built now. We have beaten the All-Ireland and Munster champions in the past few 2 games, and still have lots of room left to improve. Great to be a Rebel at the moment!0 -
Well done tonight lads, great week for Cork Hurling. Ye have a novelty trip up to Ennis to look forward to so ye wont get too bored until the Senior SF!
Cadogan on form again tonight, getting a goal too. He has to be odd on for Young Hurler of the Year now. Great player.0 -
Fantastic win.No one gave us a chance but we went down to Waterfords back yard and hurled them off the field!As for the sending off the Waterford player feigned injury.There's no need to name names.Finbarr McCarthy from 96fm got a text saying that the Waterford players conduct was disgraceful.Oh and welcome back Thinkstoomuch we missed you.:)
Cork 1990 All Ireland Senior Hurling and Football Champions
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Straight Talker wrote: »Fantastic win.No one gave us a chance but we went down to Waterfords back yard and hurled them off the field!As for the sending off the Waterford player feigned injury.There's no need to name names.Finbarr McCarthy from 96fm got a text saying that the Waterford players conduct was disgraceful.Oh and welcome back Thinkstoomuch we missed you.:)
Yes I posted this earlier on the Waterford thread,it was a very harsh sending off. Our fella definitely didn't cover himself in glory and its a shame this cork player now loses out on a Munster final. Unless ye have someone on the county board that might swing it for ye😉😉. Great display by yer keeper also,definitely one for the future.0 -
That was a great win for Cork but a huge part was the indivuidal brillance of Alan Cadogan ,Anthony Spillane and Pa Collins that got Cork through.
Cork deserve credit for that display and its a great win,but a munster title ,two wins in a row I would want before id be convinced by Management normally .
They have to be given credit for tonight,and rightly so,but as tonight showed a lot of concerns going forward and its not as flattering as it looks as waterford had clear goal chances and if they got one in the ist half,it would have been a huge test.
Its such a great Clare team ,unbeaten in nearly 3 years and trying to become the ist team since limerick to win 3 in a row I would take a compeitve performance for Cork to say the management done a good job this year even if we dont win Munster as I felt at the start of the year Clare would win the All ireland and I would say the best 15 hurlers in the Country would do well to beat clare if you had that pick.
A performance is attainable if the right team is picked though.We must get a performance.Tipp gave one tonight against possibly the Greatest ever u21 team.
Who evers wins plays Antrim in a semifinal.
I just would want to see Cork again give a real performance against Clare as under Ger Fitzgerald Cork had two huge wins , but they were false dawns in they beat Tipp in thurles by around ten points and also beat waterford handy yet Cork were beaten the next day and never progressed under him.Same with our minors last year,beat Clare and that was that.
Clare are the litmus test , and they have no distractions ,for Senior ,and unlike waterford wont have a senior game days after the u21 game.
Also clare wont lack fight like waterford tonight or compeletly fade away when things go wrong.Clare keep coming back.Cork must be ready for that.Clare play to the whistle.As at Senior level showed there is a real steel in them and a huge resilence not easily broken.
In Ennis ,Cork tactically are going to be put to the pin of their collar.Queally said he had no time for tactics in build up to the game as he had no access to players.
The way they fell away was a suprise though.
This clare team will have tactics and long ball after ball down on top of the half backs of Cleary and Gleasson wont work.
Cork have a diamond in Patrick Collins.Hes just 18, a minor hurler of two years already,2nd year at u21 and another 3 to go. He Made two super saves in the minor match when he was Captain,and 4 tonight. He Has it all,and could join Martin Coleman Snr, Paddy Barry, Ger Cunningham, Anthony Nash, Donal.Og Cusack etc as Corks greatest goalies barring injury.He is Destined for senior, he just got to be patient as Nash and Mccarthy will have their time.
If he was in some other counties he would have a real chance to be starting in two years time at senior.
Cadogan was superb but Collins has to be Man of the Match ,as waterford dominated us in the ist half and but for collins ,we would have been 3 goals down.The lad oozes Composure and Confidence. He was awesome in the u 17 tournament last year, then at minor and now this.He has agility like a soccer goalie and he has a super puckout and if needs be can score penalties or frees,as shown in the minor match,when he nearly got a goal in the last minute.
This win must ,be looked at and analaylsed at face value in that it showed up a lot of Concerns.
Cadogan is in awesome form,suberb,got around 1-6 and fouled many more times and is going to be a certain all star in senior ,and with a real chance of young player of the year.However there is a huge over reliance on him and Clare,with proven u21 coaches wont have jack browne on him as they learnt from the senior game. Seadna Morey is going to mark him.If hes held to even 4 points Cork are in trouble.Thats why Kevin O Keoffe must come in to the team.Cork will need goals against Clare.
Anthony Spillane was superb,one great goal but ,Cork need more inside.The other goal there goalie hit the ball straight to him.
Rob o shea didnt look great from play inside.Credit management in that they moved out though and he hurled a lot of ball.
Shane O Keoffe had a good game.
Rickard Cahalane had a good game,but against Galvin and Kelly he needs support.
Brosnan tried hard but it took management a full 50 minutes yo make a change.Rob o Shea has to start their the next day.And Have sugrue dropping to help them.They need 3 lads in their that can fight for the ball but also have fast hurling to hit it away as Clare are masters at hooking .Sugrue is a strong runner with the ball and had a fine last ten minutes.
I wondered Could Cork react to the Games flow,we were dominated in one half yet we saw no need to change things.
Cormac Murphy had a fine game unlucky with the red however Burke was in real trouble by Gleasson when he had to pick him up.
Kavanagh was turned at times and again id worry against clare.The half back line i feared and it was poor as a unit
Barry as i feared looked out of position at full back and If Duggan goes to 14 or Shane O Donnell we are going to creak goals.When he was one on one and isolated he was in all sorts of trouble.
The Full back line tonight was under pressure in the ist half as a unit.Clares unit in Reidy,Duggan,and Cunningham bang in 4 goals tonight against tippereary.Huge warning signs for Cork
The weakness i feared in this team is still there,Waterford didnt take the goals and that should not disguise Cork were opened up.A Clare team that got 4 goals against a tipp full back line with good hurlers in Breen and Barrett is a worry.
Michael Breen is a much better full back than Barry.I would not drop Barry,id move him out.He was beaten time and again and only for the brillance of collins saves Cork were in trouble.As Anthony Nash knows ,against O donnell he wil take those chances.If he does not take them the others fowards will.Collins as great as he is won't stop them all.
Colm Spillane had a good game and won ball in the air but must if we are to compete with them go back to full back as Sugrue can do what Spillane does at centre forward.And we need leaders in the Central spine of the team.
Burke must go to corner back also.
Its either that or put in Killan o connor in and as much as i rate him, it would be an unfair ask to make he's debut against a expierenced Clare team without game time.Spillane has expierence and would be a real presence at full back as that line is going to be severely tested in Ennis.
Are this management ruthless and realistic to know there is some concerns going forward and waterford fell away in the second half and changes must be made.Bar Cadogan and the Spillanes,none of the rest were great scoring wise.Cork have to get a total of 24 or 25 points against Clare to just compete.
Can this set up beat a sweeper.?
Cork had a sweeper and is was good to see.
Waterford had that system but there is a huge difference in having it and actually using it right.
Guaranteed if needed, Clare will use it and Clare are Masters at that system.
The reluctance to make subs when we were in real trouble ,would cause me to feel there will be limited if any changes to this team.
Clares sideline reacted fast tonight and made changes when they had to by all accounts.
Murphy's red card ,im not sure if hes out for the Final,or the Intermediate semi final the Saturday before against Galway.
He is having a superb season and would be a good sub on the senior team if we play tippereary.
Barry and Spillane,and Sugrue are on that intermediate panel as is Dennehy so its a busy 5 days for them.
A good night and thats Corks 3rd team in a Munster final.However its very early yet and would be naive to say our u21 crisis is over.A competitve performance will ease concerns.Good managers learn from mistakes.Time will tell.
I agree with the point momentum is great and Cadogan was a huge bonus to Come in after Sunday.0 -
Thinkstoomuch 1 - delighted that you are back posting - looking forward to your views during the rest of the season.
How do you see our Senior Footballers going from here ?0 -
Id be very worried if im honest Gary.
Guys like Gene O Driscoll,Cleary,wouldnt do any fancy presentations for a job.They would just talk and you would just know they understand the princples of a game.Like a tap,turn it on,it flows out,so natural.
It is basic knowelege you need a Midfield in the Modern Game yet it has taken our set up 7 months to realise it.The view the Cork team was spineless and pathetic by some pundits and players were a disgrace is appalling in my view as the Manager seems to escape a lot of Critisisim.I dont blame then one bit as i had serious reservations from day one regards the naivety of management,the ruthless conviction to stand firm with dualism bar Walsh ,the continous playing lads out of position and like Counihan the blinded unwarranted loyalty to certain players.
Cork senior Hurlers beat tipp in 2010 in a false dawn yet we were awful against waterford twice,got lucky draw in we had antrim in a quater final final yet kilkenny hammered us.In 2011 Cork gave the most lethargic,flat display i ever saw in gaelic grounds to Galway and yet Jbm Comes in and 2012 makes us competive and gets the team to a Semi final. What a difference a Real Manager makes.
I blame the County board for picking Cuthbhert,i blame Cuthbhert for then picking a weak selection team overall
Amid the unjistifed hype regards this team,not once has hes midfield been crticised in the league or hes selectorial decisions by Cork greats.
How people could not see the win in Kerry in the league was a false dawn,thats was beautfully created by Kerry.I always said nothing should be taken from it.
People now say we must Sort Midfield.Close the gate when the horse had truly bolted.
Since day one it was an issue.
A paper said ,its frustrating that time and again Cork teams with so much Hype are beaten by Kerry.Who hypes them up. Some of the media at times with the greatest respect to them in the Football are like the Limerick in a way with their Hurlers in they hype them up after a win without seeing it at face value and with an unproven manager.
I admire the Meath Football team ,I said it here many times Mick O Dowd is a good young coach.I had said if we had got them in a qualifer they would beat us.They wont beat Dublin but they are a tough,hard,direct team that have a direction and purpose about them with less talent than Cork.
After They beat Kildare,their Captain Reilly realised it was only Kildare,and said we made lots of mistakes and seemed more in to rectifying them than the win over a poor kildare team.Such admirable honesty,minutes after a match they had actually won.Thats honesty comes from the manager down.
My pass standard this year was a Munster win and a competitve All ireland Semi.We have failed in awfully in Munster .
Cuthbherts term should be reviewed like Man utd done with Moyles this year.He was not expected to win a League, he won the Charity shield(beating wigan, like the Mcgrath cup,is hardly manager of the year stuff )but failed to qualify for the champions league so despite a 5 year Contract for the Greater Good of Man United,he was sacked.
No Cork Manager has ever been sacked in a term.Will he resign,absoultely not,as listening to hes interviews hes not that type.
Even Big Phil resigned with Brazil .
This manager is here to stay,its going to get a lot worse before its get better imo.There is never any Standard of Expectation in Any Cork managers and its wrong as any job in the Country you would have a minimum standard of Expectation to reach.
A huge error in he stuck with Andrew sullivan nearly all of the Mcgrath cup and League yet he took him off against tipp and didnt start him against kerry.It took him 7 months to realise he wasnt up to it.Rory Deane when he was fit got no games.
Sean Dinneen flying in training and challenges cant get games.Sligo may be a struggle, but Cork will win .Mayo,i fear a huge defeat.
Cuthbhert has sent an open invitation to Sligo and Mayo to play 12 men behind the ball and have a blanket as he said ,he was shocked Kerry had such a style and he did not how to beat it.
Cuthbherts Style of football was good to watch and its the right way forward,but he has forgotten the basics that define a game in Midfield and defending must be in that game plan.
Were gone From Counihans Trapattoni style of limited play,slow build up and a lack of risk and belief in players to play to an all or nothing style like Kevin Keegan,all out attack,they score 4,we get 5.Its terrible to play a game and not get the balance between attacking and defending right.
Hes team against Tippereary with all out attack,its hard to know whether it was sheer lack of respect of Tippereary Or Creedon,(maybee he read that article in.paper said Cork would win by 20 plus)or whether he just has no concept of the basics of Football at all.
Based on other games of trying to play Half backs at corner back,going in to game after game without a midfield,not having a settled half back , this belief dualism is working , i would think he has got the basics wrong ,worse still he has done it time and again.
It was thought by some Dualism had worked due to cahalane and walsh having super hurling seasons.Dualism means both codes.So just cause they played both and were great in one code doesnt mean the Dual player is back,like some will try and convince you .Dual player is only back if there Successful in both Codes consistently in the season.
Cahalane and Walsh have had poor football games so it clearly shows its not working at all at all.
Walsh from day one was my only choice to do it.He could do both very well if he had A partner to share the burden in football .
He plays the same position for both and hes athletisim and strength is the same in both.If he had a lad with him with kick passing skills and to offer another target ,Walsh could do what he does best,Win ball in the air.
Cahalane a needs to be
playing and training in football reguarly to be a top half back as its a specalist positiion.
As for Cadogan its been a dissaster in he has limited games in league,challenge games ,a sub in the Championship in Hurling,one club game that he was okay at best for Douglas yet he is on the panel in hurling.
Hes missing training in football whens hes with the hurlers and its affecting him.
Imo he is a hindrance to the hurlers.Egan is ahead of him.
Nagle ,and Murphy are viable options.The bottom line is the Hurlers have at least two other options bar Cadogan,the footballers dont.
Gene O Driscoll would be ideal to be brought in now.Cuthbhert worked with Gene at minor level in 2010 and its easy to see who ran that show.
It is a win win situation all round.Cuthbhert to save the board the embarrasement of failure and himself can let on he runs the show,and let him do what he does best,deal with the media and in hes words Facilate others in the set up.But let Gene ,similar to Jerry wallis in limerick minor hurling,do the real work behind the scenes.
Cork fans would be happy as Cork Football has a proven selector on board.
Many gaa people know what Gene brings.Like him, or not,its irrelevent,but you cant but not respect him and he's skillset. The Board are smiling as Cuthbhert is still manager.
Gene has expierence at Club,u21 with cork this year to get the players to be at least competitve and have a game plan v Mayo.
Ciaran Sullivan,Davis,Sexton,Cuthbhert,Mccarthy were being built up as the Famous Five.
I said it then,Cork had one of the least expierenced set ups around.
From what I saw in in the Training Camp around the end of April, Mccarthy won me over to be fair and Ciaran may in time be good but id really have questions marks over the other 3.I said it then there was postitve things but i had real concerns in some aeras and my words were ,Roy keane wouldnt be happy at certain things.
When Cork play Mayo in Football there is going to be a top class, Corkman involved with a team.Thats Ed Coughlan , but sadly hes with Mayo.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Id be very worried if im honest Gary.
Guys like Gene O Driscoll,Cleary,wouldnt do any fancy presentations for a job.They would just talk and you would just know they understand the princples of a game.Like a tap,turn it on,it flows out,so natural.
It is basic knowelege you need a Midfield in the Modern Game yet it has taken our set up 7 months to realise it.The view the Cork team was spineless and pathetic by some pundits and players were a disgrace is appalling in my view as the Manager seems to escape a lot of Critisisim.I dont blame then one bit as i had serious reservations from day one regards the naivety of management,the ruthless conviction to stand firm with dualism bar Walsh ,the continous playing lads out of position and like Counihan the blinded unwarranted loyalty to certain players.
Cork senior Hurlers beat tipp in 2010 in a false dawn yet we were awful against waterford twice,got lucky draw in we had antrim in a quater final final yet kilkenny hammered us.In 2011 Cork gave the most lethargic,flat display i ever saw in gaelic grounds to Galway and yet Jbm Comes in and 2012 makes us competive and gets the team to a Semi final. What a difference a Real Manager makes.
I blame the County board for picking Cuthbhert,i blame Cuthbhert for then picking a weak selection team overall
Amid the unjistifed hype regards this team,not once has hes midfield been crticised in the league or hes selectorial decisions by Cork greats.
How people could not see the win in Kerry in the league was a false dawn,thats was beautfully created by Kerry.I always said nothing should be taken from it.
People now say we must Sort Midfield.Close the gate when the horse had truly bolted.
Since day one it was an issue.
A paper said ,its frustrating that time and again Cork teams with so much Hype are beaten by Kerry.Who hypes them up. Some of the media at times with the greatest respect to them in the Football are like the Limerick in a way with their Hurlers in they hype them up after a win without seeing it at face value and with an unproven manager.
I admire the Meath Football team ,I said it here many times Mick O Dowd is a good young coach.I had said if we had got them in a qualifer they would beat us.They wont beat Dublin but they are a tough,hard,direct team that have a direction and purpose about them with less talent than Cork.
After They beat Kildare,their Captain Reilly realised it was only Kildare,and said we made lots of mistakes and seemed more in to rectifying them than the win over a poor kildare team.Such admirable honesty,minutes after a match they had actually won.Thats honesty comes from the manager down.
My pass standard this year was a Munster win and a competitve All ireland Semi.We have failed in awfully in Munster .
Cuthbherts term should be reviewed like Man utd done with Moyles this year.He was not expected to win a League, he won the Charity shield(beating wigan, like the Mcgrath cup,is hardly manager of the year stuff )but failed to qualify for the champions league so despite a 5 year Contract for the Greater Good of Man United,he was sacked.
No Cork Manager has ever been sacked in a term.Will he resign,absoultely not,as listening to hes interviews hes not that type.
Even Big Phil resigned with Brazil .
This manager is here to stay,its going to get a lot worse before its get better imo.There is never any Standard of Expectation in Any Cork managers and its wrong as any job in the Country you would have a minimum standard of Expectation to reach.
A huge error in he stuck with Andrew sullivan nearly all of the Mcgrath cup and League yet he took him off against tipp and didnt start him against kerry.It took him 7 months to realise he wasnt up to it.Rory Deane when he was fit got no games.
Sean Dinneen flying in training and challenges cant get games.Sligo may be a struggle, but Cork will win .Mayo,i fear a huge defeat.
Cuthbhert has sent an open invitation to Sligo and Mayo to play 12 men behind the ball and have a blanket as he said ,he was shocked Kerry had such a style and he did not how to beat it.
Cuthbherts Style of football was good to watch and its the right way forward,but he has forgotten the basics that define a game in Midfield and defending must be in that game plan.
Were gone From Counihans Trapattoni style of limited play,slow build up and a lack of risk and belief in players to play to an all or nothing style like Kevin Keegan,all out attack,they score 4,we get 5.Its terrible to play a game and not get the balance between attacking and defending right.
Hes team against Tippereary with all out attack,its hard to know whether it was sheer lack of respect of Tippereary Or Creedon,(maybee he read that article in.paper said Cork would win by 20 plus)or whether he just has no concept of the basics of Football at all.
Based on other games of trying to play Half backs at corner back,going in to game after game without a midfield,not having a settled half back , this belief dualism is working , i would think he has got the basics wrong ,worse still he has done it time and again.
It was thought by some Dualism had worked due to cahalane and walsh having super hurling seasons.Dualism means both codes.So just cause they played both and were great in one code doesnt mean the Dual player is back,like some will try and convince you .Dual player is only back if there Successful in both Codes consistently in the season.
Cahalane and Walsh have had poor football games so it clearly shows its not working at all at all.
Walsh from day one was my only choice to do it.He could do both very well if he had A partner to share the burden in football .
He plays the same position for both and hes athletisim and strength is the same in both.If he had a lad with him with kick passing skills and to offer another target ,Walsh could do what he does best,Win ball in the air.
Cahalane a needs to be
playing and training in football reguarly to be a top half back as its a specalist positiion.
As for Cadogan its been a dissaster in he has limited games in league,challenge games ,a sub in the Championship in Hurling,one club game that he was okay at best for Douglas yet he is on the panel in hurling.
Hes missing training in football whens hes with the hurlers and its affecting him.
Imo he is a hindrance to the hurlers.Egan is ahead of him.
Nagle ,and Murphy are viable options.The bottom line is the Hurlers have at least two other options bar Cadogan,the footballers dont.
Gene O Driscoll would be ideal to be brought in now.Cuthbhert worked with Gene at minor level in 2010 and its easy to see who ran that show.
It is a win win situation all round.Cuthbhert to save the board the embarrasement of failure and himself can let on he runs the show,and let him do what he does best,deal with the media and in hes words Facilate others in the set up.But let Gene ,similar to Jerry wallis in limerick minor hurling,do the real work behind the scenes.
Cork fans would be happy as Cork Football has a proven selector on board.
Many gaa people know what Gene brings.Like him, or not,its irrelevent,but you cant but not respect him and he's skillset. The Board are smiling as Cuthbhert is still manager.
Gene has expierence at Club,u21 with cork this year to get the players to be at least competitve and have a game plan v Mayo.
Ciaran Sullivan,Davis,Sexton,Cuthbhert,Mccarthy were being built up as the Famous Five.
I said it then,Cork had one of the least expierenced set ups around.
From what I saw in in the Training Camp around the end of April, Mccarthy won me over to be fair and Ciaran may in time be good but id really have questions marks over the other 3.I said it then there was postitve things but i had real concerns in some aeras and my words were ,Roy keane wouldnt be happy at certain things.
When Cork play Mayo in Football there is going to be a top class, Corkman involved with a team.Thats Ed Coughlan , but sadly hes with Mayo.
That's an excellent summary of where we are in Senior Football, TTM1.
You have a great ability to articulate your views and back up your arguments with examples from other sports.
I'd agree with pretty much everything you've said.
Cuthbert is intelligent and highly organised as his success as head of a large primary school would suggest. He got the Cork job through a great ability to present his ideas.
I would think that 4 of the 6 man selection commmittee had no other agenda than picking the best man but much like the trio that picked Denis Walsh - they got it wrong.
Cuthbert failed to appreciate that experience in management was vital - it's good to have some young lads with vision like Paudie Kissane in Clare but there needs to be a mix. The naivety has cost Cork dearly.
We should have learned 3 valuable lessons in Killarney last year - (1) Kerry are superby organised and maximise talent available with a very effective attacking plan (2) O Halloran's kick out ability is very suspect, under pressure (3) We cannot afford to have our FB line isolated against a good attacking side.
We should have learned a 4th vital lesson v Dublin - our defence is vulnerable when opponents run at us.
Finally, we should have learned a 5th valuable lesson v Monaghan (challenge game) - our attacking strategy is neutralised by a packed defence.
The inexperience of our 5 management personnel meant than none of these lessons were taken on board and this is compounded by failure to see problem areas and take remedial action during games - a problem with Counihan too.
Mistakes come with inexperience but need to be admitted and acted on.
Cuthbert has the view that the main issue is that players are not implementing his plan - he criticised them after the Tipp game and amazingly praised management for making the correct substitutions. His post Kerry match interview on Newstalk offers no reassurance that he's learning anything.
There is neither the time nor management know-how to correct the huge issues that exist, this season and we will probably scrape through Sligo but ship a huge defeat v Mayo - but al least, that might bring things to a head.
This may bring calls from senior figures in Cork Football to make serious changes to the management team and a few selectors may have enough and walk - Gene O Driscoll is a shrewd operator and would be a massive addition - whether Cuthbert is too arrogant to admit he got it wrong ala Denis Walsh, remains to be seen. I fear he is.
Counihan failed wrt gradual team rebuilding and that left Cuthbert with problems but his inexperience and tactical naivety has multiplied those.0 -
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Welcome back sir, infromative and direct as always.0
This discussion has been closed.
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