Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Archer3083

Figsy32 wrote: »

Personally think Cronin is perfect for the role he played against Limerick before he came off. Moving a relatively immobile full back around and coming out to the wing and being a big option on puck outs. He doesn't score a huge amount himself these dad but is often responsible for 3 or 4 assists as well as the odd couple he chips in with too.

Being an impact sub has made it easier for Pebbles to look good this year. I wouldn't be in anyway unhappy or untrusting of him starting but a full forward line of himself, Hoggy and Caddy is too similar IMO. Cronin provides something different.

Cronin and Paudie O'Sullivan are two very good players to have. Very different physique and skills by both players but equally capable of upsetting opposition defences. It's hard to know which player would be better to start and which would be better as a sub. I'd prefer to start Cronin, but if Cork were chasing a game late on it might be better to have Cronin to win first time possession from direct ball into the full forward line. Paudie needs higher quality ball to be more effective. He prefers it played in front of him. He's not as good as Cronin in the air. But it's a good headache for JBM. Sure every manager wants hard choices like that

Rebel1977

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Thats my.point with sherlock he was involved as u21 selector last year ,imo is a top coach.

I thought alan was involved also.
Ye have talent in blackrock but imo a few changes on the side line.suprised me
I dont know much with john browne coaching ,a great player but ,i cant see why a forward of kevins potential isnt near goals.

Would you start Niall cashman?

The talent is there,up to management to harvest it.Crowley doing well with less avaible at ballymartle.
I hope blackrock win a county,its good for cork.

Some very bad calls from the sideline, full back line was in trouble and not much done about it, Niall Cashman should have started in my opinion.

rebel girl 15

Cork ladies footballers got Mayo in the quarter final - Mayo scraped through against a valiant Westmeath side today, courtesy of the one and only Cora - game should be next weekend to avoid clashing with the camogie

thinkstoomuch1

Fair play to Cork in the camoige,is it Kilkenny or Wexford next up.

Im a huge fan of Cora staunton .
A terrifc player.

Is the draw predetermined in beat mayo and we play a certain team or is it an open draw??

Kerry v dubs, that is good for cork imo as one of them is going to be knocked out.
Nemo,clonakillty all won today
Anybody at the games/

Bishopstown won and play Newcestown or Clyda next up.

thinkstoomuch1

I dont buy niall cashman too young argumemt in hes was outstanding in the county u21 final last year.

If the enviroment is right you can start them.Cashman has a great temparment.

Ronan lynch in limerick,Sean hayes with avondu,Kinery with Killeagh ,Shane kingston likely with Douglas ,Kevin flahive in football with douglas,are all minors,performing great at senior club.

Cashman made a huge difference last night.I agree with rebel 1977.

Figsy32

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I dont buy niall cashman too young argumemt in hes was outstanding in the county u21 final last year.

If the enviroment is right you can start them.Cashman has a great temparment.

Ronan lynch in limerick,Sean hayes with avondu,Kinery with Killeagh ,Shane kingston likely with Douglas ,Kevin flahive in football with douglas,are all minors,performing great at senior club.

Cashman made a huge difference last night.I agree with rebel 1977.

Sorry, I wasn't saying he's too young by any means. Just that he hasn't played that much hurling this year as he was focusing on exams. He's only played maybe 4 or 5 games this year and was not good in junior championship, albeit playing out of position slightly. He wasn't great in 21 championship against the Barrs either. As well as that the lads who were picked ahead of him played very well against Na Piarsiagh the first round of championship and in subsequent league games. He hadn't done enough to displace them IMO.

thinkstoomuch1

Riche Cunningham-,a long ball in with the wind,was flicked in,couldnt fault him or anyone that early in the game for the ist goal or the second goal.

O callaghan,had a captains game,struggled at times but like any good defender,composed himself,became reborn,had a fine game.

Denneny,in May I was sceptical was he commanding for here.He has hurling,proved that with CIT.
Christ he has been supberb,paticulary v Galway and today.Has pace.A lot of Senior top corner backs we have,throw in Stephen Murphy,Burke its a huge ask for him,but full back is worth a look.Hes young and worth watching.If Cahalane sticks to football next year,Spillane imo is ahead of him but he may be looked at.Jack Sheehan currently in America,deserves to be watched.

Brian O Sullivan,solid as a rock,tidy and efficent,had a Good game.

Colm Barry.Awesome majestic,brillant,a leader,hunger ,want,desire ,tough,crisp no nonense hurling,superb under the high ball what a game.In the dying moments made a superb catch in.hes own square.The crucial diffence is he had such a great game from half back,had confidence,to go in a make that catch.If he started at full back,woud not have had confidence to do it.Serious competion at last now developing at Senior level.
Management deserve credit for swtiching him from one wing to another.

Tadhg Healy,superb,read the game well,terrfic leadership,got better when spillane went in and added pace in here.
Superb servant,won a few all irelands at this grade and minor in 2001.As a new team must play next year, it is likely to be hes last game for Cork but if it is ,what a way to finish.A Great servant.

Mick Walsh,I'm a huge fan,would recall him to the seniors next year,but today was not hes best day.Hayes like Cody,had to be ruthless,and took him off.It steadied cork with Spillane there.Walsh had a truly outstanding season and will play better.

John Cronin what a display.Worked ,foraged,played deep against the wind,always done the basics superbly was titanticly heroic in Sublimity in midfield.CIT has improved him no end.

Nicky Kelly,worked hard,great shift,fine game,credit due.
Michael Sullivan brave ,gutsy,like a.lion hunts down hes opponent,then with power and athletisim ,a true act of nature ,he becomes King of the jungle.
Defended,turned over ball,got a goal,through sheer peservance,cleaned up in the air.
He is,raw in pure hurling,shooting is not hes strongest quailty but as I said in February,a rough diamond that just needs a bit of work.He wins dirty ball,has pace.Get him on senior panel ASAP.
VERy mobile,a real team player.

Colm Spillane,awesome in the air,abrasive,strong,fast,then at centre back,sweeped up like a hoover ,and got a superb long distsance point.I pray to god he gets a clean injury run as he has Senior intercounty written all over him.A leader,a warrior.Ideal for full back.

Peter O Brien,magnifcent,13 points in the semi,reliable today,super shift  ,tough cookie.Hugely important to Cork all year.

Colm Casey had not a great last game and i would have started Mannix,but what a game ,superb four points,as before been brillant in all ireland final.Superb game,always demanded the ball.

Anthony Spillane ,a clone of hes brother characther wise.
A great target man and perfect foil for Casey and Drake,didnt score much but created a lot unselfishly for others.A huge talent,brillant fresher with UCC this year,superb year at u21 for Cork also.

David Drake,superb goal, he is an artist of wrist movement in hurling, a joy to behold.
He has oceans of hurling and a superb touch.

Imo he is better at midfield,but Spillane at 14 was a perfect coil for he's magic to get in motion.

Withoubt a doubt has hurling for senior,but whether he has the ,aggression in he's hurling to compliment he's wonderful skill is the question.It will be interesting to see if JBM considers him.We have an abundance of forwards at the moment at senior though.
He stood up today when the need was greatest in the second half.Credit due.

All the subs deserve credit but Lawton in particular,won a load of ball,got two very important points

All the talent in the world is useless unless you have a management that creates unity,cohesion,team spirit,never beaten attuide,organsistion,structure,direction,team telepathy  ,and crucially last but not least real tactical nous to read and adapt to a games rythymn as it ebbs and flows but the ruthless ,bold execution to make hard necessary calls,and leave sentiment and emotion to one side.

Liam Hayes,o Tuama etc.all deserve huge huge credit for doing not one but all of the above and learing from every game and evolving.Cork fell behind but like all season had the composure from management not to panic and ride out every storm it faced.

Also a mention must be given to Hayes near neighbours in Newtownshandrum in Pat and Donal Mulchay for their superb work at CIT,and developing and making,Dennehy,Micheal Sullivan,Drake,John Cronin etc better players and likewise Ger Cuningham,Peter Cody for doing the same with the Spillane brothers,Cormac Murphy etc

Also lets not forget the contributions of Ross Cashman,Mark Kennifick,Jamie Wall,Cormac Murphy etc throughout the season.
I hope the photo of the panel with.cup is in the Echo Monday and its gets great coverage, as it is thourougly deserved.

Tonight ,i had to play "Field of Gold",and think of Corks 2014 All Ireland intermediate Hurling Champions that like many other All Ireland Winning Cork teams that Echo those words imo,well done to all involved and congratuations .
A line of that song"when we walked in Fields of Gold.

The 9th of August 2014  will to me be always remembered the day ,Cork Intermediate Hurling panel and all involved"Walked in Fields of Gold“.

thinkstoomuch1

Ned i rate every player on a equal  footing,imo Pa Cronin brings a lot to cork as by facts proven time and again

If you can give me an example where others i critise strongly by comparision to Cronin im sure imo i have valid reasons
But give me an example and if your right ill admit so.No player is imo immune from critisim on the field of play imo.Some players I tend to back more at times,but if I do ,it is as normally there the ones that gave cork so much in the past and give me reasons to have faith in them

I agree with some of what you said.
Nobody in Cork would even dream of saying cronin is a better out and out hurler than pebbles I would think.

Thats not up for debate.
What is up for debate is what cronin brings to the full forward line as a unit and who is a better fit to start with.
Pebbles is superb but is only a starter as a direct replacement. for cadogan or horgan who are both undroppable at present imo.
To start him,the balance and dynamic is all wrong.They both bring totally differents attriubutes to the teams dimenshion.
Pebbles is superb ,would have started last year but now is better for now as a sub.

If you go back to most all ireland winning cork teams they had target men at 14,Ray cummins four times in the 70s,1970,1976,1977,1978,Jbm in 1984,1986,interchanging with Kevin ,Kevin hennessy in 1990,.
In 1999,we struggled with Neil ronan,until Alan Browne,came on,browne at 14.

In the 2003 run to the final,setanta was the target man,then the next 3  years,the.great Brian cococran.
Jbm is definte and defiant to certain style of play.Target men imo is vital to that style.I like it v traditional direct teams but i am and was a critic against clare and other teams that play that system our reluctance to play a possesion game with a sweeper of our own.
Aiseake would have been if Denis Walsh Used him Right.

Now no way is cronin as good or remotely close to all i mentioned,bar possibly alan browne,and kevin hennessey.Im not saying he is.

But cronin provides a target,can score if needs to,but doesnt have to in ,harnedy,Cadogan,lehane,horgan provide more than enough scoring potential

He keeps the full back honest,and brings others in to space by winning ball or by just keeping the
You full back with him as cronin is so tall and good he needs watching.

Cronin doesnt need to be fast at full forward.Cococoran,Declan Ryan were hardly fast full fowards.

Fergal Mccormack had a similar role at centre forward in 99.
When we reflect on that team,mcgrath,ben o connor,joe deane,timmy mac stand out as forwards.


Two key defining moments however defined corks season ,Mccormack was intergal in both.

Joe Deanes Goal v clare in the Munster final,twas mccormack unselfishy ran across the field,stopped a ball going over the sideline,hit in the delivery that led to the goal.


In the final a point up,kilkenny lording it at half back,cusack went long,(i think it was cusack),aimed for mccormack.Cusacks confidence in Fergal to win that Vital ball tells you all we need to know.He knew he could trust him when the need was greatest.
He did ,won the ball,won a vital close in free that cork converted.
Gave cork a two point cushion,we needed it,won by a point.


Cronin is similar to mccormack at full forward imo.If i had to trust him to win a vital ball i would absoultey trust him.

Cork imo need a target man at 14,who would you have instead of Cronin??

North Cork Star

Congratulations to the Cork Intermediate Hurlers yesterday in Nowlan Park in the All Ireland Final! It was an enjoyable game to be at and I am proud of this bunch winning as they went through a tough campaign and deserve an All Ireland medal. I hope this is a driving for these players to make the step up to Senior and also for the Senior team to push on for the All Ireland also.

Richie Cunningham - Fair dues to the lad, he left in a soft goal, a high looping ball in the first 20 seconds of the game isn't ideal. He went onto make a great save and seemed solid under the high ball after that.

John O'Callaghan - Captain, he put in a solid hour, didn't give his man much time and space.

Alan Dennehy - outstanding at full back, quick onto the ball, superb touch and can burst out with the ball and deliver safely. I don't know how he was only a sub for the U21s this year. He showed what he can do here.

Brian O'Sullivan - worked fierce hard for the hour, sweeped up a lot of ball and got it out of trouble.

Colm Barry - great display, he caught ball, he distributed great ball and got some vital flicks in. A consideration for the senior panel for next year.

Tadhg Healy - a great servant to this Intermediate team, his fourth All Ireland with them I think. He is some man to read a game and has a great hand.

Michael Walsh - again, I am a great fan of his. A great workhorse and has lovely stickwork. Had a fantastic year in fairness, unfortunately yesterday didn't go his way and was taken off, he looked tired actually.

Nicky Kelly - he worked fierce hard again, not a mighty hurler but deserved to start and did well overall.

John Cronin - I was really impressed with him. He worked really hard throughout and won possesion he had no right to win at vital times in the first half and the start of the second half and got a nice point against the wind. Another consideration for the Seniors.

Colm Spillane- was quiet for a lot of the game. He did win a few possessions and made cutting runs but seemed to settle the ship when he went back wing back.

Peter O'Brien - He put in another great scoring display at centre forward. He put over all the vital frees in the first half against the wind and with the wind in the second half he showed his shooting ability from play with 2 or 3 lovely scores. He had a fantastic campaign in fairness. He scored 0-46 points in five games, 27 points from frees and 19 points from play. The stats say it all really. He may not be the fastest but may be a consideration for the Senior Panel, a second chance maybe.

Michael O'Sullivan - again another typical performance from him. His hurling may not be great at times and is prone to get bad wides but he did a lot of donkey work and isn't afraid to cut through the defence. He scored 1-1.

Colm Casey - he put in a magnificent display yesterday. He started off with a great point from a tight angle and put the Wexford defence under pressure all day off the ball and when on the ball tried to take on his man all he time. He finished with 0-4 points.

David Drake - when he was on the ball he did well. A very good stickman. Good touch. Passed the ball around to lads in better positions and scored 1-1 himself.

Anthony Spillane - you would know he was young. He got a great score in the first half and loved to take his man on but his touch and reading of he game left him down at times. He is only 19 years old at the same time so credit to him and he should improve.


Subs: Barry Lawton did well when he came on, made good passes and got two points of his own.
Mark Sugrue and Ronan Crowley came on also near the end.
It just shows the strength in depth when you see the likes of Adrian Mannix on the bench.


Also a special mention to Mark Kennefick, Ross Cashman and Cormac Murphy who was unfortunately suspended for this game, and especially to Jamie Wall who I wish him the very best and I know he was on the minds of the players also.

Overall a fantastic win for these bunch of hurlers and there is more to see from these lads, well deserved!

Rebels Abu!!!

thinkstoomuch1

Id echo most of that North Cork star
In relation to Dennehy,pat kenneally is cork u21 manager god.only knows what he thinks.

Im sure you are gutted like me why the great north corks pa callaghan didnt play u21 hurling.
The same manager that tried to make Barry a full back,same manager thinks kevin o keoffe wasnt good enough to be on the panel or start mark sugrue
The same manager that didnt rate sean hayes as a minor.Many more examples.
Yesterday was a great for north cork,in dromina,fermoy,kildorrey,mallow,kilworth,buttevant but also other small clubs like lisgoold,,tracton,castlelyons,arigeen rangers,carriglaine ,inniscarra etc.
A great journey in fairness.



What do you make of mallow v newmarket?
On paper mallow,but id fancy newmarket,i think danny culloty coaching them.

mallow have some hurlers involved but in both codes struggle win games they should

If its fluent open football mallow but a close battle id fancy newmarket.

Mallow have individual talent,harkin,o connor,loughrey,sheehan etc but newmarket play as a team and have brosnan,and cottrell and i presume fintan daly.

rebel girl 15

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fair play to Cork in the camoige,is it Kilkenny or Wexford next up.

Im a huge fan of Cora staunton .
A terrifc player.

Is the draw predetermined in beat mayo and we play a certain team or is it an open draw??

Open draw. Dublin will beat Kerry easy enough, fancy Monaghan to beat Galway and Armagh should have enough for Laois. Cork to beat Mayo as well

Archer3083

Have a look what Pat Spillane is saying about Cork in his article in today's Sunday World. He says 'repeated defeats to Kerry have affected their psyche and have left them mentally weak'. This is utter tripe! The fact remains that under Cuthbert this year and at various times under Counihan the management was simply outsmarted on the side line. Of course there were years when Kerry performed better and deserved to win but there is no way you could accuse any of the Cork players as being 'mentally weak'. That's disgraceful.

Archer3083

Have a look what Pat Spillane is saying about Cork in his article in today's Sunday World. He says 'repeated defeats to Kerry have affected their psyche and have left them mentally weak'. This is utter tripe! The fact remains that under Cuthbert this year and at various times under Counihan the management was simply outsmarted on the side line. Of course there were years when Kerry performed better and deserved to win but there is no way you could accuse any of the Cork players as being 'mentally weak'. That's disgraceful.

Hotfail.com

Archer3083 wrote: »

Have a look what Pat Spillane is saying about Cork in his article in today's Sunday World. He says 'repeated defeats to Kerry have affected their psyche and have left them mentally weak'. This is utter tripe! The fact remains that under Cuthbert this year and at various times under Counihan the management was simply outsmarted on the side line. Of course there were years when Kerry performed better and deserved to win but there is no way you could accuse any of the Cork players as being 'mentally weak'. That's disgraceful.

To be honest I nearly agree with him, maybe not the "mentally weak" aspect but it has certainly affected their psyche in my opinion.

Definitely agree with him with regards to the hurling following disrespecting the footballers, some of the stuff you hear coming from the hurling fans' mouths about football is a disgrace.

Amprodude

Archer3083 wrote: »

Have a look what Pat Spillane is saying about Cork in his article in today's Sunday World. He says 'repeated defeats to Kerry have affected their psyche and have left them mentally weak'. This is utter tripe! The fact remains that under Cuthbert this year and at various times under Counihan the management was simply outsmarted on the side line. Of course there were years when Kerry performed better and deserved to win but there is no way you could accuse any of the Cork players as being 'mentally weak'. That's disgraceful.

He's right. Our footballers are that and an embarrssment when they normally play Kerry.

dring

He´s right about the dual players anyway-interesting that Dublin decided this some time ago. What does "mentally weak" mean- lacking confidence, easily psyched out. Two years ago Cork beat Kerry in sfc (also in 2009) so its not like the current players have never beaten Kerry, they have a very good U21 record v Kerry. You cant say last Sunday was a game we should have won or that we were better than Mayo or threw it away. You can say we are underachieving in senior football-7 All Irelands in 130 years-1 in the last 24, is a poor return for the talent we have. Even since winning in 2010 with a youngish team Kerry have come closer than us every year since.

Archer3083

Exactly, it's not as if Cork have never beaten Kerry in senior championship football. Also, in 2009, Cork had a great chance of beating Kerry in that All-Ireland final. I blame Counihan for Cork's failure on that day. Counihan left Keiran O'Connor on Declan O'Sullivan in the first half of that match. He gave away at least 4-5 points either in scores to Declan O'Sullivan or in frees. The point I make is that it's unfair to criticize the players as being 'mentally weak', alot of the times those players were badly left down by management on the sideline.

Pat Spillane does have a point about the disrespect that the footballers get from some supporters. But, sure this is not a new problem. Football is a minority sport in Cork, we just have to accept that. For many years the CCB ensured that the footballers would be second class citizens. Even now, the dual players were encouraged to play both codes to suit the hurlers. And I think it's obvious that the CCB appointed a manager in Brian Cuthbert who was too weak to stamp out dual players. At least Counihan was strong enough to make sure that it didn't happen during his reign. I'd be afraid next year that the footballers lose Aidan Walsh completely. If Cork win an All-Ireland this year, you might see an exodus of other players leaving the football to dedicate themselves to the hurling. Or alternatively, young up and coming players like Alan Cadogan who is good at both football and hurling will choose hurling only at senior level.

thinkstoomuch1

Ballicollig beat carbery football,a huge shock their.Pa kelly meant to got 2-2.I would say kelly far from finished at intercounty.
Mallow credit due had a fine win,is this their turning point?
Twas an open game,suits mallow.If they can learn to win close game,they would be a serious team.That question will have to be answered if there to win it outright.

Hotfail.com

Anyone know what the score of the Canovee match was? Can't find it anywhere.

thinkstoomuch1

Im still amazed ,spillane and co pick lazy route blame the players,no one has pointed out real glaring weakness in this management and imo are dreaming with talk cork will improve win a munster in kerry or an all ireland with manager imo out of hes depth at senior intercounty.Ir

thinkstoomuch1

Aghinagh beat canovee by a few points

thinkstoomuch1

One ten to nine points in favour aghinagh

thinkstoomuch1

The Cats  so in the All Ireland final,as i thought.Never in any doubt imo despite, some ,not all to be fair ,in limerick like our footballers,will cling to a moral victory,which isnt much good,limerick had a  golden chance in monsoon weather,with their fire and passion,couldnt beat kilkenny.In a game suited to their strengths,still couldnt win a game in conditions taoilered made for an upset.It was an opportunity lost,thats the reality.

I believe the better team won.I feel for Ger cunningham and Donal O grady,both who could have managed limerick,imo if either in was in charge would have taken their chance today.

But as cork in 99 in semi final v offaly and final v kilkenny,2005 all ireland final win v waterford in wet conditions you still need a bit of poise and tactical astutness as heart and passion as commendable as is,is not enough as even ger loughanne said on its own,you need tactical nous also at intercounty.Kilkennys subs all made impacts.A vital lesson for cork next sunday in yesterdays game.Next sunday is going to be so titantic of a battle,match ups and subs is the winning and loosing of the game for cork.

The Weather imo influenced margin of victory by a  superior outfit both on and off the field.
In that weather, it was always going to be close imo.Seeing 12 cats defending a lead shows that,normally go for the juglar but in that weather had to be conserative gainst their true nature so I dont believe kilkenny are struggling.There beatable but the game imo showed how resilent  they are even in awful weather.To beat them,you must start the best 15,have real depth on the bench,a plan a and b and make ruthless calls on the sideline.If we beat tipp,we should have those qualties,but must simply must have a plan b .
Cork have two huge tests ahead to win an all ireland

This game i mention here as it is a  huge relevance to cork,as imo limerick are one style the way they play,imo were no real threat  to cork in the  Munster final this year as cork knew what they would face, a direct style and Cork must not get carried away with the munster final win.Tipp,not the finished article yet will test us in aeras limerick did not.Tipp with Gary ryan as trainer have real real pace in the legs and in their hurling and variation,far more elgant and elusive with ball in hand and more than capable of going toe to toe in a shootout with us and Sheedy was working behind the scences with them gives them an edge on the sideline limerick never had.A lot of work to be done,but the emotion and huge expectation that clearly affected cork in the pairc wont be there in croke park.
And it is likely tipp will play maher as a sweeper at times.

This is a strong tipp team,have improved since the ist game loss,imo were the much better team in that game,didnt take their chances.Remember they pushed kilkenny all the way in the league final .Kilkenny seem to have their number,but that wont affect their mentailty v cork who they are unbeaten to in the championship the last four years ,have beaten us.at minor and u21. I wouldnt rule out a draw.


Most astute pundits,bookies had cork as favourites to win the Munster final,a mantle that team had not had before.We struggled,understandably with the favourisitm in the ist half,poor ist touch etc,but came through, always a good sign of a team
The tipp game,bookies,pundits know tipp have a real chance,it will suit cork.Many cork fans wont be shocked if we loose as there is little between the teams

Also , my worry is kilkenny will come on leaps bounds from today but if ,we beat tipp,a huge test and by no means a certainty at all at all, we got to be at our best,lehane,cooper,harnedy have pace to trouble kilkennys  lack of  pace inside,and delaney as great as he is was in trouble with Dowling at times.Not many,if any will get the better of JJ delaney for a full game,to limit him would do.As sean og halpin said,when JJ even has an average day,he is so good,it is still enough in a game.


If we beat tipp, it is absoultey vital cronin is fit,we wont win without him.Its guaranteed kilkenny imo will make at least two changes for the final.Kilkenny will improve from yesterday again.

Also this game was a huge relevance to cork as again it showed up how poor.james mccgath is as a referee and if we make the final,i hope he isnt the ref as hes liable to do anything on hes day if we get to the final.

I think its great kilkenny are in the final from corks view,as cork kilkenny finals are great occassions,easier get tickets than if limerick was there,but as much as a huge ask,it would suit cork to be underdogs,and kilkenny bring the best out of us and kilkennys style suits us.


The 1939 thunder and lightening final,the 1969 final which was ,the last 60 minute final,1972 final the only 80 minute final between us,were all great occasions bar we lost all three.1966 was also special winning with six u21 players ,1999 also ending a nine year famine 2003 for them,the year after we deprived them three in a row,but in  2006 they done likewise.We won in 1978  beating them to win 3 in row.

In finals the record is around 13-8 or something around that.
In championship it stands 15 to ten to the cats.

There is something magical,about a cork and kilkenny all ireland final.

At the start of the year id have feared a hammering but once cahalane is at full back,half back is fine we now have a midfield and a half forward line ,we have a realistic chance,as we have a better manager,and selection team with better forwards on the field and on the bench than what kilkenny faced at any point all year against any other team

And  it would be some all ireland to win to beat the two of the top along the way in the roll of honour,kilkenny, and tipp,and beat clare,all ireland champions.Add in two  other munster teams,a young waterford in transition(will in 2 years be a serious side),and beating a limerick team to be fair full of pride,and passion.A huge incentive for Cork now ,not that we needed any,to make the final.

Lesson from yesterday is subs win you games and goals and tactical nous to make the right changes.

The starting 15 picks itself next week,crucical we get the match day 24 right.Thats absoultey crucical.Bar injury,there wont be any changes.The subs shall be interesting.

Also it took kilkenny 25,minutes after the five week lay off to get to the pace of the game.
They gave limerick a headstart we cant give to tippereary.

The key next week in Cork,Tipp is slow down at every oppurtunity the tempo of the game and games flow at every opportunity,,cant afford to chase a big lead to tippereary.Get to half time ,close to them,we have a great chance of winning then .
Cronin is a huge loss if hes out.

realdanbreen

Who is the referee for next sunday? Hopefully someone that will as they say'let the game flow' I don't believe this Cork team will be up for it if the ref gives the players a bit of leeway.

sasol

realdanbreen wrote: »

Who is the referee for next sunday? Hopefully someone that will as they say'let the game flow' I don't believe this Cork team will be up for it if the ref gives the players a bit of leeway.

James Owens.

Will he award frees for Cronin falling around the place like a drunk giraffe ?

Figsy32

sasol wrote: »

James Owens.

Will he award frees for Cronin falling around the place like a drunk giraffe ?

Well maybe if defenders stopped putting their hand on his back, fouling him, they wouldn't give him the opportunnity. If he's being fouled, why wouldn't he go down and highlight it?

willietherock

sasol wrote: »

James Owens.

Will he award frees for Cronin falling around the place like a drunk giraffe ?

Has that horny octopus Cian Dillon transferred down to Tipp?

thinkstoomuch1

Tippeary were in Carlton House  for a bit ,there fully prepared for us

They were beaten by Galway u21 team in  a challenge match ,the result being immaterial,more significant is a lot of fringe team players,likes of Colin Rordain  have been involved.Riordain wont start,but hes fitness is fine from being with the football,and so is hes temparment.Hes been hurling at school and club all year so hes not coming in cold.Hes well able to win ball,powerfully built also.

The Galway minors beat the  Galway u21 in a challenge match,and Cork intermediates beat galway u21 team,after a tough game,so results in challenges are not key its performance of certain lads in certain positions that is more important.

Glesson their keeper is certainly beatable.Good news for Cork that Darragh Egan wont start.Cahill and Barrett or stapelton are up with the best in the country,as theres such a list ,but their like Hickey,Tyrell,Morey,O Neill,Maccie in terms of quailty.

Barret is superb,tenacious,fast,no fear,and outstanding at senior and u21 all year.

It will be interesting who plays full back.Barry outstanding for UCC,Cork know all about him,im not sure if he is a full back.
If Maher plays their ,hes solid,but hes a huge loss outside at half back.

Half back,will be interesting who starts.
Bergin,i hope starts,Lehane be ideal to take him on.
Mahony im a huge fan but i dont think he is the player he was.
Cooper id have on Padraic Maher,just to limit him,he wont dominate him and Harnedy for Brendan Maher.Brendan was superb at midfield in 2012,getting two fine points.He can Score from distance.

Their midfield is solid if it is.Mcgrath,and Woodlock but we have faced better midfields. This pairing would actually suit Kearney and Mcloughin as both the tipp lads are runners,and skilful than phyiscal compared to James Ryan etc.Lorchan played well v tipp in 2012,at midfield.He was majestic,had 14 plays,covered acres of ground and while Mccgrath was good,Lorchan more than held hes own.

However id leave Lorchan at 7,and Walsh at midfield.
Cahalane has to start at full back,and stay there on Callian.Callilan is top scorer in the league,championship he excelled ,and the best club forward in Tipp,but in big games,when the need is greatest as shown v Kilkenny in the league final,im not convinced by him.
Cahalane has the aggression for him.Callilan always tends to play well against Cork though.
Id put O Neill on Corbett.

Cahalane clearly was hindered by injury in the last game ,he must start  as Shane O Neill cant go back to full back for a full game either as he had superb game  against Limerick but he was in awful trouble regards High balls in the square at times v Dowling.

Cork can ill afford have Mcdonnell in there against Tipp as Callilan loves nice hurlers.Cahalane has the nastyniess and Presence to stop him.Is everything that Callinan doesnt like.

Mcdonnell is capable of marking Lar,but Corbett drifts to the square and is good under a high ball so O Neill is the man ,as while not perfect,a safer bet in there than Maccie.

Credit JBM for looking at the  Clare game and keeping maccie away from the square at all Costs .He had superb 4 games for Cork now,shoe in for all star,but against Clare when Cahalane went out he went in and imo he directly fault Clare two goals as like i said time and again he has zero confidence in the square and doesnt stand tall in defending.

Ellis ,The  lad proved me wrong.I didnt rate him at all,u21 game 2011 cleaned out,and league okay at best.JBM got that spot on.Hes been  truly superb,he always had a lovely body,in its beautifully toned for an athelte.I said that before.But he's hurling sharpness and he has gained a yard of pace hes been unbelievable.Matthews has been doing a lot of work with Corks speed and Ellis has benfited.He looks a yard faster.Still not blessed with raw pace,he does not need it,Brian Hogan of has not Great pace either.

He's reading of the game has been superb.Matthews is terrfic trainer and has lads in tip top shape.
I would not put Ellis on Maher though.Id have Joyce,with Walsh dropping deep on Tipp puckouts,to double team him.

When a young Cork team,in year one under JBM,ran Tipp to a point in 2012,our inability to take one of our three goal chances ,the failure when they had a man sent off to counter ito,but Crucially our failure to Curb Bonnar Maher lost us the game.

From his 17 possesions, Maher created five points ,won a free.and he also made their goal when he cleaned out both Tom Kenny and Cadogan,and won a great ball.Cork got to mark him.He is what Paul O.Connell ,is to Munster,Messi to Argentina,Keane to United,etc,he is the engine that drives them.

Ellis to mark Mcgrath.Lorchan for Dwyer, if Noel starts at half forward, they may go with Niall O Meara  in the corner ,who if fit from injury,Mcdonnell well able for him who got a goal in the league game,and I rate him higely.

Its not certain what team Tipp will play yet,so until we know for definte its hard to know the match ups.

In that 2012 game our last meeting in championship,We got cleaned out at half back,Cadogans.touch was awful,and we had a half foward line of Naughton,One ball winner in Cronin and a raw Lehane yet we competed in the puck outs
and lost just that aera,27-26.
Tipp half back line even if the two mahers start,is hardly much better than 2012,Maher ,and O Mahony,but with Walsh ,Cooper,Harndey in that aera,we are much stronger.

They had Gearoid Ryan,Maher,Pa Bourke.Dwyer is not a serial ball winner.My point is while depending who starts,the unit wont be stronger than back then,at best at good,but our half back line,a new unit in joyce,ellis,and lorchan is much better than our 2012,unit,Kenny(never suitable.for half back),Cadogan and Egan.
We should at the very least break even in puckouts.

Intensity in tackling and hooking and blocking is key,as both Kilkenny and Limerick forwards were immense in that regard yesterday.Cork in 2012 won the stats 26-to 19.The reason we lost then,and like Limerick yesterday,was then we had no forwards to break down Tipps sweeper ,like Limerick couldnt break down the Cats mass defence.However Cork have real firepower,in Cads,Lehane,Horgan,Harnedy and a real bench in Coughlan,Paudie,and Moylan.Our workrate,tackling and blocking,this year by all the forwards has been terrific,but in particular,Cadogan,Harnedy,Cooper.It.needs to be the same Sunday.

Corks training,and A v B games are.going well.
If i was JBM,Id play the intermediate Cork team early during the week,as the Intermediate Champs are fit,well trained and a good workout for our lads.Id also tell some of the Intermediate team,that their playing for a panel place for sunday,and the league panel next year to bring real intensity to it.

Id pick certain lads in similar positions, try to replicate to as close as possible what
Tipp will bring ,and I wouldnt have the full ntermediate team,in id throw in a few senior,u21 lads to strengthen it,to make it as strong as possible.

Id have the game for just 50 minutes with Kingston the Ref but everything goes type of rules,dont blow for soft frees.There is a risk we get injuries,but we have a five week game we have to have a blow out to dust away the cobwebs

To play the senior team in a trial match id have,
Mccarthy,Conor Sullivan,Spillane,Burke,Jamie Nagle(teak tough and hurling similar to Maher,Egan,Murphy,O Shea,Drake,Mark Sugrue,Michael Sullivan(similar to Maher,run all over the place,good in the air)Jamie Coughlan(real pace similar to Bubbles in he can pick.off points from distance,Moylan Paudie,And Anthony Spillane.If Luke is fit,he would be ideal in the trial game.

Paudie ,or luke play from the front,super touch,so test cahalane that.way.
Then bomb in high balls,so high they gather snow ,with Spillane on him.Swap harnedy from the b team also to test him.Cahalane must be ready,if he survies Cork are in pole position.

Figsy32

Interesting read on the match ups TTM but I'd differ with you slightly.

I'd expect Tipp to line out as follows in the forwards.

McGrath
Bubbles - Bonnar -Ryan
Corbett - Callinan

If this is the case I'd prefer to see Cork do as they have previously and move Cahalane to wing back, Joyce centre onto Bonnar with Ellis sweeping. I'd have O'Neill on Callinan and Maccie on Corbett.

I think this suits Cork if it happens. O'Neill has the nastiness in his game that I think Callinan doesn't quite fancy. Maccie has the hurling and speed for Corbett.

Out the field, I'd be hoping Joyce would do a similar job to Bonnar as he did to Hannon. He's our most athletic defender and may be able to keep up with him. Ellis has been superb as the sweeper so no reason to change.

My big worry is if Tipp line out 15 on 15 with 3 inside forwards.

If this happens I'd be worried for Ellis as he'll either have to try and keep up with Bonnar or move to wing back. Not sure he can do either.

I'd also be worried about Cahalane in full back on Callinan. He looked a bit ropey at times against him in the league and I'd be afraid Callinan may be a bit too cute for him. Don't forget that Cahalane has only really played one game as a full back this championship. Played elsewhere against Clare and Limerick.

Midfield will be a battle as Woodlock and McGrath are seasoned campaigners and very wiley but I feel we should have an upper hand there.

It's hard to comment on the forwards as Tipp are a little unsettled there as well as not knowing if Cronin will make it. If he doesn't I wonder will Harnedy move into full forward, particularly to target Barry if he is positioned in full back?

thinkstoomuch1

Id agree Figsy to a point.
I totally totally agree with what you say regards Mcdonnell and O'Neill
Maccie has speed ,touch,and hurling,he played minor All Ireland Final v Tipperary at midfield


I have no problem with shane on callian,but problem is as wexford.in the league,challenge in Knowlan Park v Wexford,Kilkenny in 2012,Dublin last year,Clare when Cahalane moved out,Mcdonnell was brutally exposed in the square.
Lar.will drag him in there ,o neill better to deal with him.
If Mcdonnell is one v one.,in the.square,hes not confident in there and will roast him in there,make a.great corner back look poor.
Imo for those reasons cant mark lar


Cahalane,had no hurling up to the league game,but much better now cute enough to hold Downes in u21 2011,and Pa Horgan twice in the cork county championship.
A man for the big occassion,fast,tough,commanding ideal for him.
If hes concedes a few point fine just stay goalside,no goals ill be very happy.

I agree re Maher.
I hope Tipp go 15.v 15,its if they,i think they will play a sweeper is more of a concern. ,


Its also imo absoultey crucial Spillane is a sub as if Cahalane gets injured or struggled we need natural cover,as O Ssullivan and Burke are two fine corner backs,pure hurling but lack aggression ,aerial reliabily and solidity,a commanding presence ,no nonense style of hurling,all of which Colm Spillane has.

When the panel is announced Thursday evening I hope he is in there,as we do not need two corner backs ,but more importanly we need a natural full back on the subs bench.Spillane form is superb and.hes confidence is sky high at the present time.

I agree harnedy going to full forward if cronins out,but that negates our strongest line,id leave him there.
Hes not mobile but Cian for a half just to hang at.14,can win ball.Not ideal and imo will struggle to make next years panel but we dont have many options ,as id prefer paudie as a sub.Cian is good under the high ball and if barry is in their could do a job for a half,unleash pebbles then.