Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Amprodude

68deville wrote: »

JBM I'm sure did as much if not more than Grady with what was at his disposal

He didn't win AI with this Cork team. 1999 is too long ago.

Figsy32

Amprodude wrote: »

He didn't win AI with this Cork team.

But that doesn't mean anybody else would have. Remember where this team was when he took over?

I really don't understand why you would sack him when you admit you don't think there's anyone around that's a viable option to replace him. It's change for change's sake rather than finding anyone better.

seventh7

With respect to all the posters, Cork were incredibly luck to get to an all Ireland last year. It was a false dawn. The current academy structure is the first step on the road to recovery. This project is 2 years down the road and is a work in progress. The appointment of Ger Cunnigham and the Rock as team managers in the u15 and u16 Grades is piviotal. They must be given time to find their feet.
The fundamental problem which needs to be addressed is the player selection and the type of player we are producing. Cork hurling is renowned for producing wristy skilful hurlers whilst this is admirable and ideal the reality of the situation is that the game has evolved and Cork hurling has not. The modern game as played by Kilkenny and yesterday by Tipp is a game played at incredible pace by powerful athletes. Cork simply don't have that type of player we persist in developing the individuals to the detriment of the team ethos. Any observer of the underage teams will tell you of the almost godlike status afforded to the latest underage superstars to the detriment of the overall team. Of course we need stars but we need stars to play within a structure. Make no mistake we have the young Callinans and Bonnar Mahers on the existing panels but we are not seeing the long term picture as we persist in selecting players
to win matches and not look at the developmental aspect of giving the slower maturing kids intercounty exposure. At a recent squad session I watched the Rock stop play during a training game and interactively explain a passage of play he had witnessed, explaining the merits and pifalls of that current movement. Now that is coaching in a real sense. Time to wake up change the player profile and get back in the race.

Amprodude

Figsy32 wrote: »

But that doesn't mean anybody else would have. Remember where this team was when he took over?

I really don't understand why you would sack him when you admit you don't think there's anyone around that's a viable option to replace him. It's change for change's sake rather than finding anyone better.

Only reason I said there needs to be a change is we have being getting a few pastings with him in charge since 2012. We were destroyed and hockeyed out of the park in League Final 2012. We left Tipp get the better of us that year too and Galway beat us well in semi that year. That was fine it was JBM first year in charge. 2013 we got relegated by Clare in League and got a pasting v Limerick 2013. We nearly lost to Dublin and Clare destroyed us two days out in 2013. 2014 Waterford nearly beat us in Munster first day out and Tipp annihilate us in Croker. I personally have seen enough of JBM at this stage and it would be great to have a change good or bad. JBM won't deliver now he had a good few chances but it Ain't going to happen.

thinkstoomuch1

Orizio wrote: »

Dunno why Cronin gets pinpointed for such acute criticism, when everyone not named McDonnell/Ellis/Kearney/O'Shea was awful today, some even worse than Cronin. Moreover O'Sullivan and Moylan did absolutely nothing when they came on.

Also yes the management need to take considerable blame, they used the bench only when the game was over, had no plan to counter-act the Mahers and stood staring at us conceding puck-outs for the entirety of the match.

You could arguably justify this kind of performance with a new team and a brand new manager...but three years into his tenure? Certainly not.

Cronin is an easy target
I agree what you say
Its baffling bar me no one criticised pa horgan who was complertwly woeful from play ans fees our worst forward by a country mile yesterday

Yes hes our golden boy but unlike cronin was fully fit,and the orher non scoring forward c,ooper is not in their to score

Harnwdy,cads,lehane all scored from play

Horgan lets call a spade a spade ffs was SHOCKING but as you rightfully said its wa

Easier criticse cronin

thinkstoomuch1

Orizio wrote: »

Dunno why Cronin gets pinpointed for such acute criticism, when everyone not named McDonnell/Ellis/Kearney/O'Shea was awful today, some even worse than Cronin. Moreover O'Sullivan and Moylan did absolutely nothing when they came on.

Also yes the management need to take considerable blame, they used the bench only when the game was over, had no plan to counter-act the Mahers and stood staring at us conceding puck-outs for the entirety of the match.

You could arguably justify this kind of performance with a new team and a brand new manager...but three years into his tenure? Certainly not.

Moylan made the.goal with a superb pass
You must be having a laugh,kearney hurled and got on.a lit of ball and ellis too

Mcdonnell should never marked bonnae

Ellis when he marked him was good

Ellis was loose at times but better than most

O shea got our goal,done all you couls expect
Some of your ratings are bizzare imo

sean mac

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Moylan made the.goal with a superb pass
You must be having a laugh,kearney hurled and got on.a lit of ball and ellis too

Mcdonnell should never marked bonnae

Ellis when he marked him was good

Ellis was loose at times but better than most

O shea got our goal,done all you couls expect
Some of your ratings are bizzare imo

I believe he is referring to those players haven been good TTM, or at least I hope he is. Mcdonnell was excellent and ellis did very well on maher. However horgan was absolutely terrible, but the lack of effort or dog in him to win a ball was absolutely shocking, to take off cadogan who had just won a ball and been fouled for horgan was an indictment of management.
Horgan has been around the block for 7/8 years at this level and the top teams know exactly as Davey fitz said in flower lodge last year what he requires to mark him. Tipp put a sticky physical corner back on him and he didn't want to know unfortunately. As for Cronin he has been terrible for 2 years, was terrible yesterday as he is now a marked man for refs for fouling and my advice to Patrick as the cork captain is to shake his mans hand when offered before a game

thinkstoomuch1

Id agree seventh,a lot of sense in that post but i feel the crucial problem isnt just players,coaches like pat kenneally,don cronin,d
Ara holland,ger fitzgerald,teddy macarthy have ruined good cork teams down the years

I have been this threads severe crtitc of coaching structue in hurling and football and at last cusack called for a review of the coaching structure

As for change a manager,even if its good or bad ,change,what a load of bull***t,wake up,as bad as yesteeday was,if jbm goes,pat kenneally gets it,Cork hurling is finished for the next ten years,he couldnt get some u 21.to play with.cork,he left kevin o keoffe,trevor horgan off the panel,didnt rate sean hayes at minor,so Cork who bar yesterday have  been competive will be hammered in e every top game under kennally

Cronin said for the ist time in hes career of nine years,every team member wants to play for jbm,that may not be the case if kenneally took over

Yes jbm made mistakes but we should be careful for what we wish for

This is the cork county  board were talking about look at the shambles with the appointment of brian cuthbhert,do we want the hurling to suffer the same fate

Jbm must stay imo,simply must
As liam griffin said in corks last strike,he called it the cork county board school of management leaves a lot to be desired,and Pat Kenneally is their man,Bob Ryan a huge fan of him.

thinkstoomuch1

sean mac wrote: »

I believe he is referring to those players haven been good TTM, or at least I hope he is. Mcdonnell was excellent and ellis did very well on maher. However horgan was absolutely terrible, but the lack of effort or dog in him to win a ball was absolutely shocking, to take off cadogan who had just won a ball and been fouled for horgan was an indictment of management.
Horgan has been around the block for 7/8 years at this level and the top teams know exactly as Davey fitz said in flower lodge last year what he requires to mark him. Tipp put a sticky physical corner back on him and he didn't want to know unfortunately. As for Cronin he has been terrible for 2 years, was terrible yesterday as he is now a marked man for refs for fouling and my advice to Patrick as the cork captain is to shake his mans hand when offered before a game

Id agree with most of that

For me seamus harnedy has to be captain
What do you think

solwhit2

Cronin is an easy target because he is awful constantly fouling, driving the ball wide and for the size of him gets pushed of the ball very easily. It was the same with fraggie Murphy kept getting picked because he is captain.I think there has been a big deal being made of yesterday, we played bad that's it before yesterday we were going to win the all Ireland with people know were no good so you can't win.it's right about the underage system that we are well behind other counties .we're short in vital positions if we can fix this we won't be far away next year.

Amprodude

solwhit2 wrote: »

right about the underage system that we are well behind other counties .we're short in vital positions if we can fix this we won't be far away next year.

It will take more than a year to fix. We are about 3-5 years away where we need to be with our development. We missed the boat against Clare 1st day out last year, we could have snatched victory that day and things might not have been as bad this year.

Agree with Cronin and he's no better than A. O hAlpin when he was there. Clean useless and made opposition defences look good. Cronin no better here, he is as awkward as fcuk and his shooting is a utter disgrace. He couldn't catch a train inside full forward and is a complete passenger. Surely there is someone better in the county that we can get. Cronin tried and tested and he has failed numerous times. Time for JBM to look for new options.

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/tyrone-unveil-brand-new-era-229218.html


http://derrygaa.ie/owenbeg-derry-gaa-centre/

Just two examples of what centre of excellences are Actually and not like cusack said corks centre of mediocrity


Two ptiches and 70m for a staduim,country on its kness and goverment gave cork gaa 30 m funding with the gaa likely to give more this month


Go to nemo,mallow,they will be better than corks


As brendan cummins said UL is among the finest around,thats ,centre of excellence,north campus,astro turf,where clare footballers,hurlers train(davy likey be training there in november as they got beaten early can start training early)
Current limerick minors train there,all u16,17 ,cork senior ladies footballers,Dublin senior ladies,laois senior hurlers,some of the rubgy teams for world ruby sevens in limerick trained there,three weeks ago, the QPR soccer acadamey spent a few days there.

Cork senior footballers trained there.
Thats a centre of excellence in fairness.

thinkstoomuch1

solwhit2 wrote: »

Cronin is an easy target because he is awful constantly fouling, driving the ball wide and for the size of him gets pushed of the ball very easily. It was the same with fraggie Murphy kept getting picked because he is captain.I think there has been a big deal being made of yesterday, we played bad that's it before yesterday we were going to win the all Ireland with people know were no good so you can't win.it's right about the underage system that we are well behind other counties .we're short in vital positions if we can fix this we won't be far away next year.

Of course its a big deal beaten by ten points by a very good tean that kk will beat

What do you want,people to glorify failure,ah its just a bad day,these things happen

Get realistic
I never expected cork to roll to all ireland,said tipp was a huge danger if we.met kk we could do better than tipp had realiasric chane only if cahalane solved full back

But we got beaten as cahalane did not even start full back

BUNK1982

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/tyrone-unveil-brand-new-era-229218.html


http://derrygaa.ie/owenbeg-derry-gaa-centre/

Just two examples of what centre of excellences are Actually and not like cusack said corks centre of mediocrity


Two ptiches and 70m for a staduim,country on its kness and goverment gave cork gaa 30 m funding with the gaa likely to give more this month


Go to nemo,mallow,they will be better than corks


As brendan cummins said UL is among the finest around,thats ,centre of excellence,north campus,astro turf,where clare footballers,hurlers train(davy likey be training there in november as they got beaten early can start training early)
Current limerick minors train there,all u16,17 ,cork senior ladies footballers,Dublin senior ladies,laois senior hurlers,some of the rubgy teams for world ruby sevens in limerick trained there,three weeks ago, the QPR soccer acadamey spent a few days there.

Cork senior footballers trained there.
Thats a centre of excellence in fairness.

Would you agree that the facilities to create a Centre of Excellence are already in Cork and that what's really needed is a scheme/ plan to be administered properly?

Is it feasible for a county the size of Cork can't really have a single location for this?

To my mind there are suitable facilities in Clon, Nemo and Mallow already - then you have the farm in UCC and the CIT set up which could also be involved. I don't think any of those would turn customers away...

thinkstoomuch1

BUNK1982 wrote: »

Would you agree that the facilities to create a Centre of Excellence are already in Cork and that what's really needed is a scheme/ plan to be administered properly?

Is it feasible for a county the size of Cork can't really have a single location for this?

To my mind there are suitable facilities in Clon, Nemo and Mallow already - then you have the farm in UCC and the CIT set up which could also be involved. I don't think any of those would turn customers away...

Absoultey one hundred per cent i agree

Ni need for a new centre excellence and no.way a 70m staduim
And if so corks choice,so pay for it themselves no 30m funding of the goverment

Put money in to underage,buit from the bottom up

What good is a centre of mediocity when a county with 123 all irelands all codes,grades has ni succesful teams to grace it

thinkstoomuch1

I would be delighted if the new stadium didnt get the get the green light,and every day i read theres a delay in it,i am truly like many die hards delighted as the staduim is just a legacy for frank and all bricks and mortar but no real values substance within,as.the heart and soul of cork gaa is negelected time and again from a county board with money to spend

Amprodude

If Cork got their act together years ago with underage structures we would be sweeping in the AIs along with KK and Tipp.

ShamoBuc

What a shambles of a performance! Worst performance since the Limerick game 20 years ago. So many mistakes its hard to know where to start. Cronin was not fit and shouldn't have started. He was next to useless in the first half and should have been dragged at ht. I think he caughtg 1 ball cleanly, gave away a few frees and shot 1 wide. I cannot understand the logic of allowing 6 or 7 puckouts to get to 40 yards from goal unchallenged, mind boggling how this was allowed to continue. As a result good ball rained down on the fullback line. O'Neill's man scored heavily and yet he had a good game in as far as he covered well and cleared alot of ball.
Ellis and McDonnell also saw way too much bal but did quite well. Nash also has to get some criticism. Many of his puckouts, particularly in the second half were aimed where there were 2 Tip men and 1 Cork man. The effort put in by the forwards was both comical and at times and pitiful. They were shocking in the extreme. Horgan had his most nonexistent game in a Cork jersey. I think it took 45mins for a Cork forward to take on and beat his man- brutal in the extreme. Lehane, as a few people commented in the pub before the match has a strong tendency to go missing in big games.
As for JBM he certainly made mistakes yesterday but I would still like him to take up a new 2 year term. We were after all seconds away from winning Liam last year and won Munster this year after a long lapse. And I think we have a better starting 15 now than last year.
I honestly thought whoever won yesterday would win the final. I still think this. Tip were far from great yesterday but I expect they will be better the next day.
As for
Donal Of, he is of course 100% correct, but a lot of Cork people knew all that already!

citykat

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Lehane, as a few people commented in the pub before the match has a strong tendency to go missing in big games.

He was the pick of a poor Cork forward line yesterday. Pitched in with 4 pts from play. Only Bubbles score more pts from play.

Amprodude

citykat wrote: »

He was the pick of a poor Cork forward line yesterday. Pitched in with 4 pts from play. Only Bubbles score more pts from play.

Lehane was the best of our forwards. The worst was a toss between Cronin and Horgan. To be fair Horgan usually performs bar yesterday. Cronin has always been poor in a Cork jersey bar AI replay 2013.

BUNK1982

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I would be delighted if the new stadium didnt get the get the green light,and every day i read theres a delay in it,i am truly like many die hards delighted as the staduim is just a legacy for frank and all bricks and mortar but no real values substance within,as.the heart and soul of cork gaa is negelected time and again from a county board with money to spend

I think a new stadium is required but from what I've seen of the plans, I don't think they're getting value for the 70m.

rebel girl 15

The current underage squads use CIT, Mardyke, Old Mon fields, the Farm - there finally has been a structure of sorts put in place for the "elite" player - you also need a secure coach education system, and there are ad hoc coaching workshops, but I'm not sure how well advertised they are.

I've had a look at a few other things, there will only be ONE extra pitch because of the site, PUiC pitch won't be used for development squad training so this centre of excellence rubbish is all wrong. Donal Og is right - Cork are being sold a momument. CIT has 4 GAA pitchs, plus the rugby and soccer pitch, Farm has the same, Mardyke has all weather and a 1 grass pitch - I know they cost money to use, but put some contract in place.

JBM's three year term is up, so would presumably have to be re-nominated by the clubs.

Archer3083

Of course Donal Og is right but he's not the first person to make those points. He's just the loudest because he has access to the national broadcaster. I can't for the life of me understand why PUC is being redeveloped. Most of us hate the stadium and more importantly most of us hate the site. There are plenty of other sites that should be considered for a new stadium and centre of excellence.

D'Agger

Archer3083 wrote: »

There are plenty of other sites that should be considered for a new stadium and centre of excellence.

Any chance you'd elaborate on this? i.e. where you'd put a COE?

citykat

Have to say am mystified with all this talk of centres of excellence, development of PUC etc. Our minors were beaten out the gate in their first round this year and sparked off a similar outcry on the KK thread. There was questioning of the coaching set up, county board, strength and conditioning you name it. I thought at the time the minors didn't do themselves justice and simply had an off day. To be fair to them they regrouped and are now in the AI. It might sound trite but I think Cork had an off day yesterday for whatever reason - over-confidence? If both teams are at full belt, I still fancy Cork to beat Tipp any day.

Amprodude

citykat wrote: »

Have to say am mystified with all this talk of centres of excellence, development of PUC etc. Our minors were beaten out the gate in their first round this year and sparked off a similar outcry on the KK thread. There was questioning of the coaching set up, county board, strength and conditioning you name it. I thought at the time the minors didn't do themselves justice and simply had an off day. To be fair to them they regrouped and are now in the AI. It might sound trite but I think Cork had an off day yesterday for whatever reason - over-confidence? If both teams are at full belt, I still fancy Cork to beat Tipp any day.

CORK have lost every game to Tipp in the 2010s bar 2010 which was a fluke that day. Full belt or not Tipp have the upper hand.

Archer3083

D'Agger wrote: »

Any chance you'd elaborate on this? i.e. where you'd put a COE?

I think it might be better to separate the idea of a centre of excellence from a new stadium. A new stadium would be good but I think the centre of excellence angle is an add on to sell the new stadium. I think you probably have to have a city location for the stadium but there's no reason why you couldn't have regional centres of excellence to service the entire county more effectively. As has already been said Mallow has excellent facilities and serves North Cork. Maybe somewhere like Middleton could be used to serve east Cork. Maybe Macroom for north west Cork and Bandon for West Cork. My suggestions are based on geography but for underage developments squads regional approach might be more effective. For minor or u21 the centres could be rotated. I'm reminded of the trek that Alan O'Connor had to make to attend training in Mallow. It was a 4 hour round trip. No wonder he decided to opt out of senior intercounty football this year.

thinkstoomuch1

Lets give some harsh truths here,we live in a democratic country but Cork gaa is not democratic,noboddy in cork bar cusack had the balls,courage conviction,or pure honesty and deceny within cork gaa to say it.

Clubs have zero say in managers,just a myth,they had no say with cuthbhert,when michael maguire asked why casting vote in a 3-3 deadlock,bob ryan voted for a manager that couldnt even win a junior county with ballyclough,over a manager involved in four all irelands finals,won two,yet won ten munater 21,titles,won senior cork county with haven,when cuthbhert bishoptown struggled ti beat 12 men,ffs clubs have Zero power in cork,and they have.themselves to blame as after.the last strike had a golden oppurintythat they will never happen again to force change ,real real change at the top table.they lets be honest chickened out


Couninhan had hes last last term ended clubs,had.no real say.,in appointing him two year term,it.was the one and only finbarr mcccarthy glen,called for a special ammendent of a rule and counihan was rushed through,when it should have been debated.
Cork gaa doesnt do debate though.

The u 21 manager was rushed through.in hurling,clubs had no real say

Yes there is the bull**t of committes formed to appoint a manager ,just a smoke screen,put a.few candiates in there.,but those committess are.often hand picked by certain yes men who.will only pick candiates with a certain profile and at the end of the day the board must still ratify the decisions at the end of the day

If jbm wants a new term he will get it.From what i hear if true i.suspect he will take a.new term which imo is good news for cork,and i think.jbm will add a new selector to the set up to freshen thinks up.

Te

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/rebel-board-want-counihan-to-stay-on-for-two-more-years-209715.html

See cork gaa is like an open book to read.

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/08/18/system-failure-jones-road/

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/08/18/cusack-slams-lack-investment-coaching/