Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Orizio

How is our half-back line our strongest line? Or did you mean weakest.

Thinkstoomuch

Orizio wrote: »

How is our half-back line our strongest line? Or did you mean weakest.

I said the half back line so I meant it.
No the half back line would be our strongest line,if Lorchan was there we would be rock solid.
I feel it is in, that Joyce is strong in the centre and will get better with games.
Full back line we don't have a natural 3,so even with two excellent corners backs but were weak in a central aera.
I wouldnt regard midfield complete.
The half forward line is weak.
And the Full forward line has massive potential but lacks a presence in their and Horgan has been awful in fairness.
The half back line bar white held their opponents to just a point from play in the KK game and in the key position in this line , in the centre we have a player that will with each game begin to be more commanding.
Murphy as fine a player he is will never do that as a full back.
Paudie is the best attacker we half but will never dominate a CB like Walsh,Hogan,etc.

Orizio

Lorcan isn't there - in reality White and Joyce are rookies, Joyce has had a mediocre league bar the Kilkenny game where he was unmarked for the majority of the match, while White does about as much as is needed and not much else. Management clearly doubts the credentials of both considering White was dropped after the Waterford game and Cronin was 6 for a couple of leagues. I would argue that's our weakest line.

Paudie isn't there to dominate anyone, he is supposed to roam and create space behind him. Brian Murphy isn't a natural full-back, but considering the switching and two man full-forward lines teams play these days he doesn't need to be, he needs to mark his man, which he does brilliantly.

Thinkstoomuch

Orizio wrote: »

Lorcan isn't there - in reality White and Joyce are rookies, Joyce has had a mediocre league bar the Kilkenny game where he was unmarked for the majority of the match, while White does about as much as is needed and not much else. Management clearly doubts the credentials of both considering White was dropped after the Waterford game and Cronin was 6 for a couple of leagues. I would argue that's our weakest line.

Paudie isn't there to dominate anyone, he is supposed to roam and create space behind him. Brian Murphy isn't a natural full-back, but considering the switching and two man full-forward lines teams play these days he doesn't need to be, he needs to mark his man, which he does brilliantly.

Joyce was CB against tipp and done well with egan and white playing,the only time they played as a unit so far.
The tipp game is not a true test though.
Joyce was not CB against Clare or Waterford though and Cronin was.
Our weakest CB by a country mile so considering there was a gaping hole with cronin there of course the rest were going to be poor.
Joyce was thrown in at the deep end against Galway and while he didnt dominate he held hes man scoreless.
Now against KK he was immense.
Of course he was marked.
What about the covering hit on Larkin who he blew out of it going straight down on goal.
He won ball clean out of the air and hurled a lot of ball .
That was just hes second game.
If he had been CB all through the league he would of been much better.He needs games.
Just cause JBM did not pick him doesnt mean it was correct.
Cronin at 6 proved he was totally wrong and joyce has done all that was asked of him.Egan in the games he played was excellent.
Murphy is in there as Cork have no other options for now.It is not that he is in there to man mark.
Yes Galway and KK play a different style.
However when Galway went long as KK did, with high balls in to the aera, we were exposed.
Clare if they use Honan right could cause us problems.
He is named at corner forwars but I would assume Murphy marks him.
If they need to they could throw Conlon in there.This will be a big test for our Full back.
Im a huge fan of Murphy,I just feel this line is weak.
A full back line needs a commander in chief,no nononese style player who can win ball cleanly and hurl it out fast.
The Rock was no man marker,what he had was strength and a presence to mark and protect the aera in front of goal.Unless you have that you will be exposed eventually.
Murphy cant do that.We have two man markers as it is with our two corner backs.We need balance here.
A third player of the same style is not whats needed their.
As shown against Galway when Murphy man marked canning we had no full back to hold the line and 2 goals were conceded as O neill was exposed in the air.
The last day against Clare Murphy was burned for the goal.
Against KK the full back line was again exposed and we had no choice to give away two penalties.Killian Murphy even had a spell at Full back.
We only have a stop gap at full back.
At CB we have a player that can and will get better.2 real games at CB and a CB by nature all through he's career( okay he play corner back for a year in u21)he has showed enough promise where murphy at full has been exposed time and time again.
White doing as much as needed,conceding 4 points is not what we needed against KK.
The fact that Mcloughlin had to go to midfield,was a huge loss.
But with Egan their tommorrow at least you have a top class back beside Joyce.
The management got it wrong with the half back line from the start.It has only been put close to being right the last two games.
It has potential.
At Full back its a stop gap at best.
Yes I agree paudie being at 11 is there to roam and create space etc.
Not much good as KK proved when they just clean ball after ball down on top of you.
Clare play so deep that paudie can roam all he wants,Bulger and Donnellan will just stay back and sweep up any ball and dominate the aera.Highly unlikely they will do what Tipp done and be dragged all over the ptich,and not tommorrow in swamp like conditions.
They will allow their midfield to pick paudie up.
Our next best option is Mcdonnell at Full back who as showed by Kellys goal for Tipp he clearly wont do.
The half back line if white was not there could be stronger,spillane would be worth a shot, or walsh.
You will only know by playing them, what we do know is white at best just does enough against weaker teams.At worst he is exposed at this level.
I feel half back is our strongest line.
Joyce is Cocky,and plays on the edge.He will have to keep that in check,but you need that in a central position,something we are clearly lacking at in the full back line.

Amprodude

<Logs on Cork GAA forum> sees a waterford and Tipp fan posting remarks to themselves <Leaves forum>

Thinkstoomuch

Not one Glimmer of Hope for the Championship or for the next year.
This is a loss that has taken Cork to its lowest EBB and Cork hurling is in woeful decline .What a sad day.
The CCB if they have any morals at all should accept it played a part in this.
But it will be business as usal,and the usal ,dont panic,we have no given right to be in Div 1 etc, we have hurlers,it takes times etc, Cork will be back .
The usal rubbish.
All the talk will be about the developments squads and it needs patience and this will help us in the Future.
Nothing about our dismal U21 management team that again will be allowed waste another talented bunch of players this year.
The minors success thursday was good but again i remain to be convinced with the set up.
A munster title will have to be achieved.
Its really unfair and tough the pressure these minors are now under but that was over failures at CCB the last ten years.
Compared to the work done in the football,the results can be seen clearly.
Cork footballers are bred in a winning Culture,hurlers are bred in a cloud coveres by failure.
What happens is talented players begin to question themselves, the doubts creep in,they lack the swagger and confidence Cork teams used to breath in spades.
Teams relish Cork in hurling, the fear factor is gone.The wheel has turned the full circle.
We can hope waterford beat clare as we wont beat them in June.
Clare panicked and were nervous,but with games and after today they will gain more compsure.
Thats 3 games in a row they beat us.
They wont miss as many scores in June, we will struggle to compete.
Dillion and a few more to come back in.
We have as i said before a poor bench.
Coughlan will be good, but he is not a half forward to win ball.
He will offer a goal threat but as proved today the full forward line cant do much with no ball.
O Neill being injured was not a huge loss in that we have corner backs.
Full back is still a problem.Murphy battled gamely but when honan needed to win ball he did.
The half back line was under constant pressure and had no break at all.
Added to the fact that Clare half backs just waltzed through or half forwards time and time again they always created overlaps.The half back line was trying to put fires out everywhere.
Egan and joyce made some sloppy clearances but i thought they done as well as they could have in the circumstances.Joyce was trying to be everywhere.
At one stage he was at full back winning a ball, hes man had oceans of space in the half back line.
He needs to be let there,and build an understanding with egan.
It needs games.
Lorchan done well,he was at half back at the end of the game,white showed today he just lacks that quaility.
To move him to midfield was the right idea but he is just aint up to it.
Paudie as talented as he like i said last night is not a half forward.
People say he is there to create and not dominate.
Wrong, a half forward needs to dominate or ele he is the one Dominated.
He was like lehane, blown out of it in the puckouts.
As i said the half back line would be the winning of the match.
Clare won hands down.
Paudie is at best in the full forward line.
Luke was lethal but it is easy mark him when he has no ball.
Horgan got 3 points was much better than before in play but again he missed some crucial scores and a crucial free.
He workrate still needs to be better.
When we needed a leader Cronin got the goal,but he is moved everywhere on the ptich it is impossible for him to dominate a game.
Through no fault of he's own he is a jack of all trades and a master of none.
He needs to be picked at Cf or full and stay there.He was between the two and midfield at times.
I knew the game was lost when i saw Naughton on.
He made one great run and then instead of tapping it over gave a woeful hand pass.
Going for goals when points would have done bar at the very end was madness.
Peter O Brien should have been on earlier just to even win a ball.
Cian mac again failed bar a point.
JBM had no options though.
Its been a poor league.
While JBM is still the best man for the Job theres been woeful decisions made.
Cronin at CB costing us two games for Joyce to get more games at 6.
Cussen on the panel.
I dont care if there is no other talent out there but even bring a current minor or U21 player before cussen.
Naughton should be cut from the panel.
Mannix one game and he seems to be axed.Thats dreadful.
Horgan would survive on the panel but he needs to deliver more.
The full forward line is full of potential with O Farell and Pebbles and Moylan and Coughlan when hes back.
Horgan would come in to the fray but hes workrate i still felt today is not at the level it should be and offers no goal threat.I Would start any one of the others ahead of him.
Lehane has so much talent he could start in their two.
He doesnt win any ball in the air for half forward.He could be a roving corner forward.
We need two half forwards to win ball.
God knows where we will get them before June.
Bill Cooper may come in to the fray but just back from injury and with no games to test him he wont be the answer anytime soon.
After this defeat and now 8 weeks or more to wait for the next game, it will be hard to blow these cobwebs out.They say after a defeat players just want to get back out again as soon as possible.
Thats the problem we have two months to wait.It will be very very hard to drive on now in training and get any momentum for June.
Cork hurling is in a crisis.
People said after Tipp we would win a munster or beat clare easily.
Todays shows how wrong that was.

Mr Tibbs

Hard luck today lads, Clare seemed to have more steam in extra time to close out this game. In fairness after watching this game I don't think any of the two teams should be relegated.

ShamoBuc

So we went down today, the way we played, we deserved it. Our forwards are capable hurlers but cannot act like a functioning unit. Half forwards need the ability to win their own ball - we have 1 that can. Inside forwards blew hot and cold all day long, throughout the league in fact. Midfield were ok in parts but the amount of time the Clare number 8 received the ball with no marker near him was nothing short of criminal - and it never got better.
Our defense were under undue pressure due to the ineffectiveness of our half forwards and the fact that they kept a clean sheet is a testament that will surely stand to them this summer.
Our half backs - Egan in particular need to get rid of the ball a lot quicker.
Going forward, Cork will play a lot better in the summer. We will have a cut off anyone we play. Not too worried about playing in 1b next year, especially if we get out of it straight away, might even lead to a winning belief in the squad - who knows.

Thinkstoomuch

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

Hard luck today lads, Clare seemed to have more steam in extra time to close out this game. In fairness after watching this game I don't think any of the two teams should be relegated.

Fair play you for the empathy but i dont think any cork fan would mind any one saying that we were woeful.
we were destroyed in terms of winning possesion and clare had 21 wides or around which tells it own story.
we have not managed to win any game this year.
I dont rate the tipp game as a contest.
We just are not good enough in crucial central key aeras.
Clare with more compsure could have humilated us like Limerick down to us in 1996 in Corks worst perfrormance ever at home.
This was just as bad.The scoreline flattered us.

Thinkstoomuch

ShamoBuc wrote: »

So we went down today, the way we played, we deserved it. Our forwards are capable hurlers but cannot act like a functioning unit. Half forwards need the ability to win their own ball - we have 1 that can. Inside forwards blew hot and cold all day long, throughout the league in fact. Midfield were ok in parts but the amount of time the Clare number 8 received the ball with no marker near him was nothing short of criminal - and it never got better.
Our defense were under undue pressure due to the ineffectiveness of our half forwards and the fact that they kept a clean sheet is a testament that will surely stand to them this summer.
Our half backs - Egan in particular need to get rid of the ball a lot quicker.
Going forward, Cork will play a lot better in the summer. We will have a cut off anyone we play. Not too worried about playing in 1b next year, especially if we get out of it straight away, might even lead to a winning belief in the squad - who knows.

I agree with most of that but i totally totally dissagree their is any positive in Div 2 and in this case no Cloud has a silver lining.
I also disagree come the summer we will be better.
False dawns are absoultely one hundred per cent useless to Cork hurling and with the greateast resepect wins over all counties bar Limerick would be nothing more than that.
Winning is good,but not when your beating second and third rate teams.
It is a bit like Cork winning the Canon O Brien cup beating UCC this year and saying we won a trophy.
It would make Naughtons, Cussens etc look good when truth be told they are no where near the required level.
Also Cork wont improve much in the summer.
This theory we are greyhounds in the summer sun is rubbish.Control the Controlabes are what Munster rubgy always say.
Cork cant control the weather so when we get which is possible a wet miserable day we can not get out of the traps.
Even in sunny day thurles all you need to do is withdraw your half forward line like Clare done today and drop back to their half back line where we cant win a ball,and then just score from deep.
Conlon and Kelly like Galway last year done this.
We have no ball so we cant out run or outwidth teams.
Today was championship and the same failures as last year haunted us.
But we are also weaker than last year with sweetnham and Niall mac gone and Cadogan.It wont get much better.

ShamoBuc

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

I agree with most of that but i totally totally dissagree their is any positive in Div 2 and in this case no Cloud has a silver lining.
I also disagree come the summer we will be better.
False dawns are absoultely one hundred per cent useless to Cork hurling and with the greateast resepect wins over all counties bar Limerick would be nothing more than that.
Winning is good,but not when your beating second and third rate teams.
It is a bit like Cork winning the Canon O Brien cup beating UCC this year and saying we won a trophy.
It would make Naughtons, Cussens etc look good when truth be told they are no where near the required level.
Also Cork wont improve much in the summer.
This theory we are greyhounds in the summer sun is rubbish.Control the Controlabes are what Munster rubgy always say.
Cork cant control the weather so when we get which is possible a wet miserable day we can not get out of the traps.
Even in sunny day thurles all you need to do is withdraw your half forward line like Clare done today and drop back to their half back line where we cant win a ball,and then just score from deep.
Conlon and Kelly like Galway last year done this.
We have no ball so we cant out run or outwidth teams.
Today was championship and the same failures as last year haunted us.
But we are also weaker than last year with sweetnham and Niall mac gone and Cadogan.It wont get much better.

I don't think anyone will get false dawns from any wins in the league next year. But I do think those wins could be far more advantageous than the losses this year and the ones we would probably have gotten next year. We threw everything at KK - who were in first gear - and still lost.
We do not have the players we need at the moment - in particular ball winning half forwards, playing in either league won't change that fact.

Also, we are not playing at the top table of hurling for a reason, we don't deserve top be. But it's a fine line. Had Paudie goaled when he was one one one we could have stayed up. What would that really have achieved though. The tactics you outlined would still be prevalent in any case.

All that said, we will still have a fine crack at teams this summer, I'm confident of that.

Thinkstoomuch

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I don't think anyone will get false dawns from any wins in the league next year. But I do think those wins could be far more advantageous than the losses this year and the ones we would probably have gotten next year. We threw everything at KK - who were in first gear - and still lost.
We do not have the players we need at the moment - in particular ball winning half forwards, playing in either league won't change that fact.

Also, we are not playing at the top table of hurling for a reason, we don't deserve top be. But it's a fine line. Had Paudie goaled when he was one one one we could have stayed up. What would that really have achieved though. The tactics you outlined would still be prevalent in any case.

All that said, we will still have a fine crack at teams this summer, I'm confident of that.

No way could beating Carlow antrim be more advantage to Cork than loosing to KK etc or Galway.
I would rather loose to Clare, Tipp, Galway even get hammered by KK then beat second grades teams.
At least even in defeat against top teams you learn about your team.
What did cork learn in the ten goal demolation of Laois in 2010 and that was championship.We learned nothing.
At least loosing to top teams it will show the weakness and even dont finding the soloutions is still hard winning against weak teams hides the faults and slows the progress of the team.
Limerick have suffered in div 1B, We will too.
Spillane,Joyce,Lehane etc need games against the Corbetts,Fennellys,Walsh's ,Cannings etc to be tested.At least we will know if there good enough.
Next year you will get just one tough game in Div 1b.As limerick in the final be a test.
In the league game it hard to know ,as Dublin proved they did not care loosing to limerick the first day,they knew they would in the final.
Our hurlers are stickmen, nice and skilful ideal against hurling teams like offaly,Carlow etc.
They will put up big scores,Horgan,Naughton looking great.
We know all this.
We will get worse and will not win an all ireland for another few years over being relegated.
To be the best you got to play them.
It is totally wrong to and dissresptful to Clare to say if Paudie had goaled we would have won.
No way,Clare had 21 wides and only for Nash had a certain goal.
This was not like 2004 Munster final beaten by a point where we were unlucky or 2007 quater final where a dodgy ref decision cost us the first game.In those games we would of deserved the win as we played great hurling and competed.
Today we were not unlucky.People say Honan got a soft free to draw the game.
Fact is we were lucky we were not destroyed.
Clare totally outplayed us and were deserving winners.
We were lucky they had so many wides.
Fortune favours the brave.
Clare fully deserved the win and let their be no mistake about it,we did not run Clare close,Clare nearly beat themselves.
The better team won today by a Country mile.

On what Basis could we have a crack of Tipp,Clare,Kk ,Galway?
We were stronger last year and fell short.
Tipp and Galway and Clare will all get better.We dont have the same scope to improve.
I hate to say that but you got call a spade a spade.

ShamoBuc

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

We will get worse and will not win an all ireland for another few years over being relegated.


Clare fully deserved the win and let their be no mistake about it,we did not run Clare close,Clare nearly beat themselves.
The better team won today by a Country mile.

On what Basis could we have a crack of Tipp,Clare,Kk ,Galway?
We were stronger last year and fell short.
Tipp and Galway and Clare will all get better.We dont have the same scope to improve.
I hate to say that but you got call a spade a spade.

The fact is we will not win an All Ireland for another few years because we are no where near good enough. Being relegated or staying up, would not have changed that.

Yes, Clare deserved their win, but Cork could have still won it -we did not run Clare close - it went to extra time because we ran them close. There were times when we were clearly the better team and vice versa, both had chances to win it, deservedly or not makes no difference.
Had Cork snuck the win, they would have beaten a better team than themselves - not much more they could do is there!


We will have a crack off any team in the summer. Tipp came down as champions a couple of years ago and went home with a 10 point loss. They have a habit of performing and then not performing. Clare are a better team than us at the moment and we pushed them all the way today.

No one expects anything from Cork this summer, fine with me. Time will tell.

Next years league can wait till next year.

Thinkstoomuch

The CCB were worried about attendances in the Football this year.
The straw that broke the camels back could be when the crowds at next year league games are at an all time low.
Hopefully they will realise how badly this is affecting Cork Gaa and make changes and a commitment to put not only the right structures,but more importantly the right people in Charge and make sure this never happens again.
People are trying to say that out footballers came out of Div 2 in 2008 and won an all ireland.Football is a lot more competitve in that division.
And we were blessed with Munster and all ireland winners at underage.
This team is not.
JBM fair enough has to be postitve but afterwards said we can still win all irelands from here,it was done in the past.
The past was a lot less competitive ten years ago.The bar has been raised by KK and in Munster considerably while the gap at lower levels is widening.
The management team had said all week it be a huge blow to Cork loosing today.
They can try put whatever spin they want on it but it is a huge setback and no all ireland will be won from there.

Thinkstoomuch

ShamoBuc wrote: »

The fact is we will not win an All Ireland for another few years because we are no where near good enough. Being relegated or staying up, would not have changed that.

Yes, Clare deserved their win, but Cork could have still won it -we did not run Clare close - it went to extra time because we ran them close. There were times when we were clearly the better team and vice versa, both had chances to win it, deservedly or not makes no difference.
Had Cork snuck the win, they would have beaten a better team than themselves - not much more they could do is there!


We will have a crack off any team in the summer. Tipp came down as champions a couple of years ago and went home with a 10 point loss. They have a habit of performing and then not performing. Clare are a better team than us at the moment and we pushed them all the way today.

No one expects anything from Cork this summer, fine with me. Time will tell.

Next years league can wait till next year.[/quote
We got to extra time cause clare missed loads of chances.we were no way close to them.
That 2010 defeat is like this year, meaningless.Tipp never turned up in 2010.
With a new manager,several all ireland winners and underage winners we wont beat them.It be close as those games are but we wont have enough to beat them.
We wont get past Clare if we met them.
To say oh the league next year we dont need to worry til then.
With all due respect i dissagree.
Serious structures starting with the U21 team need to be put in place to make sure that we never are in this place again.
We have wasted enough time ,a complete change is needed to make sure we have talent coming through.
To prepare for the future you should not delay.
We were miles of Clare today .

Thinkstoomuch

we would never of won the all ireland,we all know that.I said from February,we would struggle to win a Munster.
What relegation changed today is were now falling way down the ladder and will struggle to even get to Munster finals and be a top 4 team,and also crucially hinder the progress of this team and put another extra wait on an all ireland.
Today is huge blow for Cork hurling.
The first step for the powers to be is accept this.Only by accepting and not trying to paper over it and saying it is not as bad as it seems ,will progress be made and lessons learned.

Rightwing

Losing today is bad news for Cork hurling. Make no mistake about that.

It has affected Limerick badly. Attendances are way down and lot of people have lost interest here. Next year in the league, we'll have 2 matches, both against Cork...but only 1 of them will count.

Amprodude

Rightwing wrote: »

Losing today is bad news for Cork hurling. Make no mistake about that.

It has affected Limerick badly. Attendances are way down and lot of people have lost interest here. Next year in the league, we'll have 2 matches, both against Cork...but only 1 of them will count.

I agree there are dark days ahead for Cork hurling. We ain't good enough in 2013 so best we can wish for is a competitive Munster Championship and in the back door a bit of respectability on the scoreboard if we are to meet any of the top 6. The sooner the CCB realise that Cork hurling is in crisis the better. Even the year of the strike they managed to stay up in top division.

steveve

Will it be Sean Og, Donal Og or Gardiner that will come out first criticising JBM?

Thinkstoomuch

Amprodude wrote: »

I agree there are dark days ahead for Cork hurling. We ain't good enough in 2013 so best we can wish for is a competitive Munster Championship and in the back door a bit of respectability on the scoreboard if we are to meet any of the top 6. The sooner the CCB realise that Cork hurling is in crisis the better. Even the year of the strike they managed to stay up in top division.

Totally agree.
The fundamental difference with the strike was when we had to beat limerick and clare we had a team backboned by all ireland winners and guys that got to 4 all irelands in a row.
I hope someone in Cork has the B**s to say it straight out in the papers this week and not pussy foot around the issue but Cork hurling is in a crisis.

Thinkstoomuch

Rightwing wrote: »

Losing today is bad news for Cork hurling. Make no mistake about that.

It has affected Limerick badly. Attendances are way down and lot of people have lost interest here. Next year in the league, we'll have 2 matches, both against Cork...but only 1 of them will count.

Exactly.I agree.Corks saving grace might be John Allen is still in charge which seems unlikely.
He wont get the best from that limerick team.

Thinkstoomuch

Rightwing wrote: »

Losing today is bad news for Cork hurling. Make no mistake about that.

It has affected Limerick badly. Attendances are way down and lot of people have lost interest here. Next year in the league, we'll have 2 matches, both against Cork...but only 1 of them will count.

The CCB will only wake up when their hit in the pocket with poor crowds.It is their own fault.

Rightwing

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

The CCB will only wake up when their hit in the pocket with poor crowds.It is their own fault.

Ah I wouldn't be too hard on Cork, I felt ye were unlucky to go down. It's a poor league format.

Amprodude

steveve wrote: »

Will it be Sean Og, Donal Og or Gardiner that will come out first criticising JBM?

Why would they? They are all now gone from Cork team. This is the best Cork team they can produce at the moment by JBM but its not good enough to compete against the other top 5/6 teams.

rebel girl 15

I couldn't watch the game yesterday, but listened to the radio - it seemed that Cork lacked leadership. The likes of Waterford who have a number of older players still there, but listening to the game, the half forward line got cleaned out with the puck outs especially in the second half. There wasn't any change in the strategy, and it makes you appreciate the donkey work the two McCarthy's did over the years. All Nash seemed to do was hit and hope,

The biggest concern I would have would be the fitness of Cork, how many games have they been two or three points up to end up drawing the game - I would seriously question the conditioning of the players. When it went into extra time, I knew Clare were going to win. If its not fitness, then it must be a mental thing, that they cannot close out games.

Chickens are coming back to roost big time for the board, little work done on underage development, but we'll have a fantastic new stadium to play our games in. Cork hurling is simply not good enough, and it loaths me to say it, but the management team and JBM need to take most of the responsibility for yesterday. It was a miracle that Cork took it to extra time given the number of chances. Cork hurling is at its lowest ebb for a very long time, a glimmer of hope with the minors beating someone other than Kerry in the championship, but it is an extremely faint glimmer.

Rightwing

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

Exactly.I agree.Corks saving grace might be John Allen is still in charge which seems unlikely.
He wont get the best from that limerick team.

I'm inclined to agree. I'd like to see Allen sacked, seems he doesn't know what he's doing.

What do cork people think of him?

Thinkstoomuch

Rightwing wrote: »

Ah I wouldn't be too hard on Cork, I felt ye were unlucky to go down. It's a poor league format.

To say were unlucky would be wrong and a sign of a weakness to address the failings and shortcomings that have got us here.
We are we are as it is a true reflection of us.
Forget the first game,but at no stage after that bar against waterford could we have won any other game .We were lucky to get a draw in Galway,against a team missing 3 key players and clearly in second gear.
When Kk turned up the heat we could not cope with them,they had 5 key men out.
Luck is the last refuge for success.
Donal og grady said today the league should not be changed from the current format bar that the bottom team in each division plays the top team in the lower one to decide relegation and promotion.
I am delighted he said that.The league hopefully wont be changed just for us.
Id say the CCB are cringing he said that and he definetly is not their favourite person id say now.
He was right to say it.
He said its the most competitve its ever been as shown by tv figures and huge crowds at it.
I cant see it changing.
Im not being too harsh on my own county,it is just calling it as it is.The sooner we accept we are our lowest point can we move on.
You cant fix a problem if you fail to accept one exists which the CCB dont accept.
In regards the team,White is no where near the level needed.
And we have no option to put Mcloughlin at 5,as the half back line due to our half forwards will be I
immense pressure so we need to make it as strong as possible.
Egan and Joyce made mistakes but still done well under immense pressure.
We need a presence at 6,yes it will take time for Joyce to become that,but you only become a top class CB by being allowed to develop in the role.
With Mcloughlin at 5,a calming and sweeping influence it would speed this up.
Pat Mulchay who has done work with
the cork development teams and great work with CIT said the Cork minor team of 2008/2009 should of been built around him at 6.
It was not.But that is how much talent he has.
A unit of Mcloughlin,joyce and egan is our best option.
Midfield we need to find someone to partner kearney.Mcdonnell or walsh,maybe shane o neill when he is fit.
The half forwards are woeful.But finding the answers for this year seems a tall order.Unless Niall mac comes back from travelling which won't happen.
Full back is a problem.Spillane needs game time at 3 for the U21s and needs to be given a chance in the future.Div 1b will hinder hes progress though.

Rightwing

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

To say were unlucky would be wrong and a sign of a weakness to address the failings and shortcomings that have got us here.
We are we are as it is a true reflection of us.
Forget the first game,but at no stage after that bar against waterford could we have won any other game .We were lucky to get a draw in Galway,against a team missing 3 key players and clearly in second gear.
When Kk turned up the heat we could not cope with them,they had 5 key men out.
Luck is the last refuge for success.
Donal og grady said today the league should not be changed from the current format bar that the bottom team in each division plays the top team in the lower one to decide relegation and promotion.
I am delighted he said that.The league hopefully wont be changed just for us.
Id say the CCB are cringing he said that and he definetly is not their favourite person id say now.
He was right to say it.
He said its the most competitve its ever been as shown by tv figures and huge crowds at it.
I cant see it changing.
Im not being too harsh on my own county,it is just calling it as it is.The sooner we accept we are our lowest point can we move on.
You cant fix a problem if you fail to accept one exists which the CCB dont accept.
In regards the team,White is no where near the level needed.
And we have no option to put Mcloughlin at 5,as the half back line due to our half forwards will be I
immense pressure so we need to make it as strong as possible.
Egan and Joyce made mistakes but still done well under immense pressure.
We need a presence at 6,yes it will take time for Joyce to become that,but you only become a top class CB by being allowed to develop in the role.
With Mcloughlin at 5,a calming and sweeping influence it would speed this up.
Pat Mulchay who has done work with
the cork development teams and great work with CIT said the Cork minor team of 2008/2009 should of been built around him at 6.
It was not.But that is how much talent he has.
A unit of Mcloughlin,joyce and egan is our best option.
Midfield we need to find someone to partner kearney.Mcdonnell or walsh,maybe shane o neill when he is fit.
The half forwards are woeful.But finding the answers for this year seems a tall order.Unless Niall mac comes back from travelling which won't happen.
Full back is a problem.Spillane needs game time at 3 for the U21s and needs to be given a chance in the future.Div 1b will hinder hes progress though.

I mean unlucky as in, almost any team could really have gone down. Highest amount of points was 6. lowest was 4. That's a joke.

Thinkstoomuch

I agree Cork Hurling is at it lowest ebb.The wheel has turned full circle.
It will get a lot worse though with the U21 as well and the seniors in June.
The mentality of this team is not so much we lack leaders as in the old guard,but crucially a lot of our players are starved of underage success.
Bar Brian murphy we had no all ireland winner from senior or u21 or minor starting.
Clare had 14 players on the panel that had U21 medals.
Their team is younger than ours but these young players can lead as they are born in a winning culture.
The Cork footballers that won in 1989 and 90 was backboned on a three in a row all ireland U21 winning team from 84-86 that also won minor titles as well.
They had no fear of Kerry at senior as they beat them at every other grade.
Tyrone won 3 all irelands based on their young players under age success.
Our guys will lack the mentalilty as we are beaten consistently at underage.
JBM wanted the U21 job in 09.
He was not allowed pick he own selectors.
That decision has haunted this team now in its development.
I agree that Dave matthews training needs to be ??like it was before by cadogan and Cusack.
He's philosphy of having our players trained like greyhounds is useless when there physically blown out of it with every challenge they make and as Kk and clare showed we run out of steam after running in to brick walls for most of the games.
We can run all day,but in hurling you need a hurley and the ball to perform.
Our forwards can't win any 50-50 ball so they are no threat.
Tommy walsh,Richie hogan,Noel mcgrath are no big men,but their body strength is miles above cork.
The training done to the cork lads is way off.
Take Joe Canning who was lightweight a few years back,he has bulked up considerably since then.
Cork needs a director of hurling ,some one like Donal Og Grady.
That will never happen though.
Diarmuid O Donovan wont change much.

Thinkstoomuch

In relation to Corks View on John Allen, my own is he is not or never will be a top class inter county manager as the main man.
A lovely man,as nice as you could meet.
He just in my view is not the man to take a team in development like Limerick to the next level on he's own.
He would be ideal working as a selctor in the sense of man management alongside some one else etc.
He is mild mannered and very at ease,ideal for minor teams,working with young lads on confidence etc.
Tactically he is well short I feel.
A lot was made of he coaching Cork to 9 winning games in a row, and winning the all ireland.
Credit due,but he had a seasoned bunch of magnificent players that had a style of play that had been fully tuned under two years of o Grady.
He brought nothing new or extra to the style.
KK were waiting in the long grass and we had no plan B.
Hes idea of tactics was throw on Cian O Connor a corner back to try and win the game when we had forwards of immense talent on the bench.
All because he got three goals in a challenge match against Clare.
People claimed him to be a shrewd manager when he took off Cococran and Curran against Clare in 05 and put gardiner at CB.
Every cork fan had called that move at half time but he waited till 20 minutes to go and nearly left it too late.
Against Limerick in 06 in the quater final we should of lost that game.He 's tactics that day i did not think were great.
Most tight close games with Limerick he has lost with big leads built up too.
I think he is more of a man to contuine the work of someone else then to reinvent or create a new team.