On that gest asked all the time, Massive O2 Data charges, but did not expect them

munkifisht

I am not 100% sure of what bill I'm on, but I rarely if ever chalk up any data charges. In March I used 810,427 KB and was charged €0.82 for 1MB on 16/3, but no charges after that date, in April I used 781,177 KB and was charged €0. This is the run of my bills going back as far as I can check.

In May all of a sudden I started to get these massive charges, 645,278 KB and Charged €45.02, the first 590,287 was free and I was charged on last 55,000. I didn't notice this, in fact assumed it was phone calls. This month I got a text telling me I had high data usage and assumed there was something wrong, I always have high data charges, I clicked into my account and found the first 348,215 KB incurred no Charge, the following 646,000 KB Charged €561.47, the bulk of my present bill. I know this is up on previous months, but it's not even that much up. Firstly does anyone know what the hell is going on, have there been some changes in the O2 Data billing, and what am I going to do, there's no way I can pay this.

drunkmonkey

You kind of have to pay it you owe it. Get away from the as quick as you can after that. It may be worth having a word with there call centre. I've seen them reduce bills like that to €50 as a once off as it never happened before. Call them in the morning, be nice and see how it goes.

krudler

Is it 646mb? theres no way kb usage would amount to that much, was it domestic or roaming usage?

munkifisht

646 MB domestic. Although, as I say, there has been no change in my bill recently that I am aware off, but the limits seem to have come right down, from at least over 810MB to 350MB. I'm on the O2 advance + Unlimited Data plan. From their price plan for the Plain Advance plan it is 3c per MB, so should only cost a max of around €20 (although I think the unlimited add on gives me at least 1GB free use). Will be ringing them tomorrow demanding they quash the charge and the charge for May. This is insane if they are able to change the goalposts just like that.

cookie1977

munkifisht wrote: »

646 MB domestic. Although, as I say, there has been no change in my bill recently that I am aware off, but the limits seem to have come right down, from at least over 810MB to 350MB. I'm on the O2 advance + Unlimited Data plan. From their price plan for the Plain Advance plan it is 3c per MB, so should only cost a max of around €20 (although I think the unlimited add on gives me at least 1GB free use). Will be ringing them tomorrow demanding they quash the charge and the charge for May. This is insane if they are able to change the goalposts just like that.

Did you tether or use a hotsspot feature on your phone?

krudler

munkifisht wrote: »

646 MB domestic. Although, as I say, there has been no change in my bill recently that I am aware off, but the limits seem to have come right down, from at least over 810MB to 350MB. I'm on the O2 advance + Unlimited Data plan. From their price plan for the Plain Advance plan it is 3c per MB, so should only cost a max of around €20 (although I think the unlimited add on gives me at least 1GB free use). Will be ringing them tomorrow demanding they quash the charge and the charge for May. This is insane if they are able to change the goalposts just like that.

if its on the old unlimited data you should have at least 2gb or the older one actual unlimited, were you tethering? cos thats not included

munkifisht

According to them at O2, they willing to comprimise, and are only going to charge me 50% of the bill. Wow, what saints. Their reason, I changed the APN (Access Point Name, the way you connect to the internet). So despite the fact that O2 use the exact same technology, the same masts, routers, servers etc for both services, they are going to bill me an insane amount for my data. I have asked them to tell me how they can justify the charge, what is so special about the APN I was using, but they will not answer the question and it seems there is absolutely no difference in the service they are providing, the charge is just calculated differently. Amazingly, it's gone up again, despite the fact that my phone has not connected to the internet and I have barely used it since I learnt what had happened, other than to try and get this resolved.

I suppose you would also like to know why I did such a stupid thing, well, I was having some issues connecting to some sites and Android Market, so I checked on the O2 help forum for a solution. I found one, a guy was having the exact same trouble as me. The moderators suggested he try the APN fix and it worked for him, it worked for me too, but unbeknownst to me they had given him special permission which they never gave to me. There was no warning on the forum that this was a one off and no other O2 customers should use it as a solution. As soon as my problems were fixed, I was happy go lucky.

What I have learnt tonight is even more hilarious. It is not me who pays the bill directly, it is my mother and I pay her back (we keep the phones together on the one account to build up upgrades faster). My mother is no idiot when it comes to cash, and the last time there was a huge bill on my sisters phone she requested that O2 put a block on the use of any phone once the months bill had exceeded €60, including on my phone.

I have also been in contact with the O2 tech guys on the forum, they have offered me a totally perverted and sick deal. They want to credit back 75% of the bill to my account (yea, this sounds good so far) if I agree to sign up for a totally unnecessary 7.5 GB extra data plan at a cost of €12.50 and month which will tie me in with them again for another 12 month contract. These guys are total clowns (and yes, before you say it, I was a bit of a clown myself).

So things are going to DefCon 2, I have contacted ComReg today, not sure what they can do, but here's my fingers toes and internal organs crossed. Meteor, I'm on my way.

cookie1977

The difference between the apn's is that some are restrictive. Because the unlimited plans have a large data allowance (3gbs fair usage but O2 do let people go over) they dont want those customers to use tethering (connecting your device to a pc/mac to use as a modem) so they force you to only use the "internet" apn which wont work with tethering. The thread you found on the o2 forum was a separate issue and people had received permission to use a different APN. The extra package they want you to sign up to will then allow you to use any apn you want. The data add-on wont tie you into another contract

While I dont personally agree with the restrictions O2 apply to certain APN's, and feel that once data has a cap (as in fair usage of 3gbs for the unlimited plan) there should be no reason to restrict use of said data in what ever way you see fit, the issue for you remains that you found a thread which sounded like a similar problem to you and you made a change which resulted in costing you. I dont know what comreg can do in this case but I would suggest PMing the O2 mods one more time to privately discuss the situation and try to come to an agreement that's mutually beneficial.

PS I'm cookie2point0 on the o2 forum

ardmacha

The issue here, from a consumer persepective is whether these apn differences are clearly stated in the T&Cs for your tariff. While Vodafone clearly mention the live apn O2 do not have a clear description of apns, although they charge 100 times as much one apn as another. Make them clearly identify the exact text in the T&Cs that let them do this.

cookie1977

Well unfortunately for the OP they are:

http://www.o2online.ie/o2/uploads/pdfs/terms/archive/O2-Advance-Price-Plan-Rules-July2010.pdf

flower tattoo

I know its a bit late but can you request an alert once your bill gets to a certain amount. I have mine set with 3 for about €100 I think ( I decided the amount) and I get a text when I'm near that amount and then once I hit it, I can only use the included units.

ardmacha

The T&Cs do seem clear in this case. This is not true for all O2 tariffs, especially the old ones. There is a real question as to why O2 charges are so high, people can be discouraged from using and apn by charging twice or 3 times as much.

cookie1977

I agree. There's no reason why people cant just be made clear of their data allowance size and then let them use the data however they want. All there new plans have access to any APN but their data allowances have dropped dramatically (from2-3gbs down to 250mbs per month) which is pretty appalling and one reason why I left them.

But as I said OP if you can have another chat with them again and see if they can help you as going the comreg route in my mind will just slow things down and make them dig their heels in. If you dont get any satisfaction from one more attempt at a resolution then you can still go to comreg although I still dont think they can help you much.

munkifisht

As I said Flower, I had an alert, my service was supposed to cut once the bill went over €60, and in response to Cookie, that's all well and good, but I don't think I was exceeding the fair use policy. There was no significant difference between my use for the past month and any others. Re the advice, I did not say it seemed similar, I said it was "the exact same trouble as me". Every symptom of my issue was described, including when the issues began.

cookie1977

i realise that munk but your T&C's you agreed to stated that you can only use the "internet" apn, so when you changed you broke your T&C's without O2's permissions (whereas the people in the thread you saw were approved to use the open.internet apn).

In this case no matter how unfair you see it you clearly broke the T&C and are responsible for the costs incurred. So you are at O2's mercy in this matter. Thats why I'm saying you should try again with O2 to seek a better good will gesture re the charges.

munkifisht

It's not that I see it as unfair or fair, it is that I see O2 in the wrong. They did not make it implicitly clear on a public forum that those instructions were for one person only, they did not cut me off after I got over my monthly cost limit, and ethically, their behavior is beyond reproach. I will fight this to the bitter end. This is not an issue I have with the general customer service staff of O2 either, rather I have found them to be in general quite helpful in the past, perhaps not so much with this issue. But this is a problem with the general policies of the company when dealing with it customers and something Cookie I would suggest you raise with your superiors. How any mobile company can treat it's customers like this, especially when we are in economically disastrous times and the mobile usage in this country has saturated is beyond me.

cookie1977

munkifisht wrote: »

It's not that I see it as unfair or fair, it is that I see O2 in the wrong. They did not make it implicitly clear on a public forum that those instructions were for one person only, they did not cut me off after I got over my monthly cost limit, and ethically, their behavior is beyond reproach. I will fight this to the bitter end. This is not an issue I have with the general customer service staff of O2 either, rather I have found them to be in general quite helpful in the past, perhaps not so much with this issue. But this is a problem with the general policies of the company when dealing with it customers and something Cookie I would suggest you raise with your superiors. How any mobile company can treat it's customers like this, especially when we are in economically disastrous times and the mobile usage in this country has saturated is beyond me.

Sorry munk I don't work for O2. I'm a customer like you. I do find it strange that you're blaming a forum thread unrelated to you (in that you hadn't posted on it prior to doing what it said) on your particular problem. I don't think you can blame that although I do agree with you that they should have contacted you long before you spent 600. I still think you're better of pm'ing them then going down the comreg route as they really did nothing legally wrong and comreg can't side with morally wrong decisions. Best of luck anyway and post back how you get on

munkifisht

Sorry Cookie, I don't know why I assumed you worked for O2. I suppose because you do seem to know your stuff, although perhaps you could still raise the issues with your superiors. They may think you're a little weird to raise issues relating to the management of a mobile phone company when you work in a butchers shop or something, but I'm sure they will appreciate your enthusiasm.

I am trying every route to get this resolved, PMing is one way, ComReg is another, but I think that this issue really has to be raised with ComReg. It's obviously wrong what they are doing and this sort of practice needs to stop. The more people make a point of raising these issues with regulators, the better off we will all be.

munkifisht

Great news, O2 agreed to drop the charge. I finally got through to someone that had some sympathy for my situation and properly examined it, and they agreed that because the O2 mods on the forum had not be very specific about the fact they were giving advice as a one off, it could be understood how I could make a mistake. I am still going to bring it to ComReg because I think it is totally wrong that the situation was allowed to occur in the first place.

cookie1977

Thats great. I'm glad you got it sorted as it was a lot of money. Going down the comreg route would have been painfully slow and may not have worked in the end.

flower tattoo

That is great news but as an add on to my earlier reply, you said they texted to alert you that your data charge was high but at that stage it was already €500ish. Maybe get an alert when it hits 30 or 40 quid over your normal spend so it's easier to resolve.

munkifisht

It's fantastic. Such a relief

@Flower, they had a record of the limits being put on one of the accounts phones, but the operator did not put them on all 3. That was certainly a mistake on O2s side and now has been resolved.

@Cookie, not sure how long the process would have taken. All I do know is that following my original reporting of the incident to ComReg, it would have taken 10 working days for them to follow up the incident with O2.

And on that note, I got onto ComReg this evening to tell them that the issue was now resolved to to request that they look into it so it doesn't happen to anyone else in the future and I was basically given the heave-ho. The call dropped on my first call to them so I had to ring back and I got two different operators each time. The first one told me that there was no regulation for it. I felt he was saying it was my fault not O2s. The second operator said they would not be bringing my case forward, and would only proceed to do something to prevent this type of thing happening again after they had 40 or 50 complaints on the same issue (although I think he was at least agreeing that it was wrong). I suppose the lesson for us as consumers is, if you are not happy with the way you are being treated, even if you are not going to win, report it to the Ombudsman or Commissioner and if enough of us do it, change will happen.

I also feel really sorry for anyone else who ends up accidently changing their APN, I only got out of this by the skin of my teeth, but if someone is reading this in the future in the same situation, stay on them as much as you can. I had my bill reduced by 50% first, then 75% if I accepted an unnecessary add on, then just 75%, and then quashed. The customer support staff are authorized to make up to a 75% reduction in the bill if it is something out of the ordinary, but seem to be encouraged to only offer 50% at first.

krudler

munkifisht wrote: »

According to them at O2, they willing to comprimise, and are only going to charge me 50% of the bill. Wow, what saints. Their reason, I changed the APN (Access Point Name, the way you connect to the internet). So despite the fact that O2 use the exact same technology, the same masts, routers, servers etc for both services, they are going to bill me an insane amount for my data. I have asked them to tell me how they can justify the charge, what is so special about the APN I was using, but they will not answer the question and it seems there is absolutely no difference in the service they are providing, the charge is just calculated differently. Amazingly, it's gone up again, despite the fact that my phone has not connected to the internet and I have barely used it since I learnt what had happened, other than to try and get this resolved.

I suppose you would also like to know why I did such a stupid thing, well, I was having some issues connecting to some sites and Android Market, so I checked on the O2 help forum for a solution. I found one, a guy was having the exact same trouble as me. The moderators suggested he try the APN fix and it worked for him, it worked for me too, but unbeknownst to me they had given him special permission which they never gave to me. There was no warning on the forum that this was a one off and no other O2 customers should use it as a solution. As soon as my problems were fixed, I was happy go lucky.

What I have learnt tonight is even more hilarious. It is not me who pays the bill directly, it is my mother and I pay her back (we keep the phones together on the one account to build up upgrades faster). My mother is no idiot when it comes to cash, and the last time there was a huge bill on my sisters phone she requested that O2 put a block on the use of any phone once the months bill had exceeded €60, including on my phone.

I have also been in contact with the O2 tech guys on the forum, they have offered me a totally perverted and sick deal. They want to credit back 75% of the bill to my account (yea, this sounds good so far) if I agree to sign up for a totally unnecessary 7.5 GB extra data plan at a cost of €12.50 and month which will tie me in with them again for another 12 month contract. These guys are total clowns (and yes, before you say it, I was a bit of a clown myself).

So things are going to DefCon 2, I have contacted ComReg today, not sure what they can do, but here's my fingers toes and internal organs crossed. Meteor, I'm on my way.

Hang on a sec, so they're squashing the charges and giving you the option fo getting something that will reduce the cost of tethering or using the open internet apn , something which YOU elected to do on the phone to begin with,which you refused, and they're the clowns?

the sense of self entitlement in mobile customers is utterly staggering at times.

If you're not sure something will cost you extra, dont go dicking around with your phones settings, just ask first.

munkifisht

krudler wrote: »

Hang on a sec, so they're squashing the charges and giving you the option fo getting something that will reduce the cost of tethering or using the open internet apn , something which YOU elected to do on the phone to begin with,which you refused, and they're the clowns?

I refer you to "(and yes, before you say it, I was a bit of a clown myself)" comment. I was not calling them clowns for anything other than expecting me to sign up for a package that I thought was going to extend my contract into another 12 months until Cookie set me right.

krudler wrote: »

the sense of self entitlement in mobile customers is utterly staggering at times.

I suppose my "self entitlement" comes from the fact that I have been a loyal customer for more than 10 years, that they published instructions on their public forum and did not give implicit warnings that this was for one customer only, that I have paid for, and have been paying for some time a data plan, and that we requested that limits be placed on the bill.

krudler wrote: »

If you're not sure something will cost you extra, dont go dicking around with your phones settings, just ask first.

Very good advice that I wish I had in hindsight.