Dodder Fishing

thirtypence

lads, this weekend im staying with a friend in clonskea (spelling?), he said the dodder goes by the back of his house............ can i fish there with my fly rod, any advice?

Kippure

Just to put this out there. There is a lot of seatrout coming up at the moment on the dodder ( the most ive ever seen in the 26 odd years i,ve fished the dodder) and there only making it as far as smurfits water fall, then they kill themselves trying to jump that stupid water fall. WHAT A COMPLETE WASTE.:mad:

If theres any one out there who can get on to the council? and tell them to repair all the damaged water falls and put in a simple fish ladder to stop this endless slaughter.

Last year i saw a salmon at least 15 pound just float back down from beaver road. It looked battered. Killed itself trying to get up river to spawn.

ITs no secret anymore that there is salmon and seatrout running up the dodder, its the worst kept secret amoungst anglers who fish the dodder.

Those of us who fish the dodder and are lucky enough to catch a seatrout while fishing for our native local browns, please put them back. Give the sea trout a chance.

I,d also like to ask the people who treble the shaols of mullet that come up the dodder as far as the dart station at lansdowne and along where the new flood walls where put in all along the new walk way down through ringsends, CLEAR OFF.

There are people who fly fish and using fake bread and there are people who fish for mullet with bait. Stay out off are way. What you are doing is called POACHING.

And i would also like to ask whos idea was it to fill in the water fall at ballsbridge. Was it a lazy decision to raise the river bed so you would not have to go as deep with the foundation of the new side walls.
Who ever done this its one of the biggest botch jobs ive ever seen. You didnt even repair the rest of the bank 20 feet up river where its collapsed in.

Well done

Anger Angler.

Have a nice day.

natdog

Kippure wrote: »

Just to put this out there. There is a lot of seatrout coming up at the moment on the dodder ( the most ive ever seen in the 26 odd years i,ve fished the dodder) and there only making it as far as smurfits water fall, then they kill themselves trying to jump that stupid water fall. WHAT A COMPLETE WASTE.:mad:
If theres any one out there who can get on to the council? and tell them to repair all the damaged water falls and put in a simple fish ladder to stop this endless slaughter.
Last year i saw a salmon at least 15 pound just float back down from beaver road. It looked battered. Killed itself trying to get up river to spawn.
ITs no secret anymore that there is salmon and seatrout running up the dodder, its the worst kept secret amoungst anglers who fish the dodder.
Those of us who fish the dodder and are lucky enough to catch a seatrout while fishing for our native local browns, please put them back. Give the sea trout a chance.
I,d also like to ask the people who treble the shaols of mullet that come up the dodder as far as the dart station at lansdowne and along where the new flood walls where put in all along the new walk way down through ringsends, CLEAR OFF.
There are people who fly fish and using fake bread and there are people who fish for mullet with bait. Stay out off are way. What you are doing is called POACHING.
And i would also like to ask whos idea was it to fill in the water fall at ballsbridge. Was it a lazy decision to raise the river bed so you would not have to go as deep with the foundation of the new side walls.
Who ever done this its one of the biggest botch jobs ive ever seen. You didnt even repair the rest of the bank 20 feet up river where its collapsed in.

Well done kippure why not tell the whole world. I agree its not a great secret but I dont think you needed to advertise it and as regards the lads treble hooking do you really think they give a **** what you say.

The fish dont go beyond smurfits fall they lay below it and as you said stocks are good so its not really causing them a problem the salmon floating back down had more than likely completed its lifecycle.

As far as I know the waterfall at Ballsbridge had to be done for flood protection it was i the dodder anglers report this year.

Sorry if I sound like im having a go at you but when your talking about rivers you need to be more careful who you tell.

Kippure

natdog wrote: »

Well done kippure why not tell the whole world. I agree its not a great secret but I dont think you needed to advertise it and as regards the lads treble hooking do you really think they give a **** what you say.

The fish dont go beyond smurfits fall they lay below it and as you said stocks are good so its not really causing them a problem the salmon floating back down had more than likely completed its lifecycle.

As far as I know the waterfall at Ballsbridge had to be done for flood protection it was i the dodder anglers report this year.

Sorry if I sound like im having a go at you but when your talking about rivers you need to be more careful who you tell.

No worries mate, but when you see the slaughter of seatrout it piss,s me right off.

As for the secret of the dodder, it hasnt been for years. All i hear when im fishing from other anglers, half of which aint got a fishing permit is "ah ill only take one" when you hear that from many anglers it shows one can become 5 or more.

For the salmon on the dodder, there are plenty, again its no secret, its a nod and wink culture down there. Ive seen lads treble salmon and off they go.

There should be a strong Garda and fishery protection officers down there from smufits all the way down to the liffey(ie patrol once a week for example). And if there are lads fishing for salmon/seatrout they should have the licence, and for trout the Dodder permit. And for mullet?

As for the state of some of the water falls, there in ruin. What even dooder trout could pass up them, We,d have to have a good auld flood.

Give all the fish in the dooder a chance to roam free, PUT IN FISH LADDERS.
Especaily at smurfits.

coolwings

Would you go down with a party using pickaxes and iron bars to break the sill of the weir so a concentration of flow would allow a partial escapement?

Kippure

coolwings wrote: »

Would you go down with a party using pickaxes and iron bars to break the sill of the weir so a concentration of flow would allow a partial escapement?

No i wouldnt do that.

jack01986

Is there much chance of anything being done by the Club? I was looking at all the obstacles along the river for migratory fish and thinking some sort of fish pass or ladder along those stretches would make the river substantially better for the migratory fish. Would there be some people out there who wouldn't want to imprve the fishing as they would have to pay for a salmon/sea-trout licence.

dodderangler

the garda have better things t do than worry bout fish come on we all know that as for the bailiffs they dont seem to give two f**ks about the river its gone to the dogs very few nice places left that hasn got a tesco trolley in it or a moped or loaded wit cans of dutch.
they dont care bout the river which they should considering the rise of salmon and sea trout in past few years on the dodder
surely someone could start up a petition and get signed to get the river proper secured because its gettin ridiculous now everyone is groundbaiting and killing fish all the time its ridiculous sometimes i wonder why bother paying for the licence anymore theres one serious good day every year and its paddys day thats brutal

slowburner

Kippure wrote: »

No worries mate, but when you see the slaughter of seatrout it piss,s me right off.

As for the secret of the dodder, it hasnt been for years. All i hear when im fishing from other anglers, half of which aint got a fishing permit is "ah ill only take one" when you hear that from many anglers it shows one can become 5 or more.

For the salmon on the dodder, there are plenty, again its no secret, its a nod and wink culture down there. Ive seen lads treble salmon and off they go.

There should be a strong Garda and fishery protection officers down there from smufits all the way down to the liffey(ie patrol once a week for example). And if there are lads fishing for salmon/seatrout they should have the licence, and for trout the Dodder permit. And for mullet?

As for the state of some of the water falls, there in ruin. What even dooder trout could pass up them, We,d have to have a good auld flood.

Give all the fish in the dooder a chance to roam free, PUT IN FISH LADDERS.
Especaily at smurfits.

This is the second instance of posters here mentioning illegal 'fishing' on the Dodder.
The fisheries' board or the Gardai won't do anything about it if they don't know about it.
Anglers can be the eyes and ears of fisheries protection - if they do something about it.
Have you contacted either the Gardai or the fisheries protection service when you have witnessed the illegal activity.
Whinging about it on an internet chat forum isn't going to help.

slowburner

coolwings wrote: »

Would you go down with a party using pickaxes and iron bars to break the sill of the weir so a concentration of flow would allow a partial escapement?

Are you seriously advocating that people should willfully cause damage to a weir?
What you have posted could be viewed as an incitement to cause damage to private property.
You could be held responsible if amateurs attempted to ease the passage of migratory fish by altering a weir.
The consequences could be devastating. Even minor damage to a weir could eventually cause major faults and even collapse of the structure itself.

coolwings

jack01986 wrote: »

Is there much chance of anything being done by the Club? I was looking at all the obstacles along the river for migratory fish and thinking some sort of fish pass or ladder along those stretches would make the river substantially better for the migratory fish. Would there be some people out there who wouldn't want to imprve the fishing as they would have to pay for a salmon/sea-trout licence.

I have been through this, and discussed it with the people who decide these matters. It is on my long list of voluntary projects I will have a go at when I get time.

If the money were raised privately, it could be done cheaply by contractor.
If the OPW get involved the cost would be higher, and the time delay for funds would go out 10 years.
That remedial work only requires private funding and comittment by a project leader.

As someone who has done work like that I assure you at 5000-15000 euros/weir and voluntary work with an intelligent designer would sort out each weir. Using professional labour and existing professional staff it would be 5-10 x that per weir.
Using donated plant it would cost a lot less than that. There are many construction workers out there looking for some pay and a job.

It is instructive to look up what was done at the Kilkenny weir fish pass over the past few years by OPW with a massive budget and carte blanche and no cop on. Put in control of such a project OPW will almost certainly get it wrong in some significant way due to lack of consultation with people who understand migratory fish and their requirements.
The requirements are simply, avoidance of poaching via blocked fish passes, and water level fluctuation in fish passes, because they will almost certainly choose to use an already existing fish pass design of which many are pretty woeful.
All migratory fish require is cover, and a gradient with boulders of varying sizes mixed along the bottom to slow the water down just above the reverbed in the gradient. They also require a deep approach to the entrance to the gradient, with a substantial flow through it.

In Kilkenny they built a lovely weir a few years ago, and put the fish pass on top of a gravel shallow lying below the weir that had adequate depth for minnows, the main flow was not through the fish pass, the fish could not/would not approach the downstream end, and of course had no choice but to attempt jump the weir itself, which was impassable. It was disgraceful, and it was a recent project, not in the dim past.

The location and spacing of the impassable weirs on the lower reaches of the Dodder is such that, with each extra weir sill broken, starting at the sea, the area of extra spawning water opened up by that stage of the project, doubles the spawning area available before.
These are Beaver Row, Clonskeagh Mill, Dartry, Dropping Well, Orwell, Rathfarnham. The first two or three on that list are what stops the Dodder being like a quality Welsh seatrout river.
Beaver Row is the sticking point, because it is the first problem to be dealt with, and it also substantial.

The limited spawning area is the significant limiting factor controlling these fish's numbers, so we can be fairly sure that the increase will be in proportion to the amount of limiting factor removed.
So with each weir broken by inserting a pass, (or better, creating a set of natural rapids in it's place, or through it's middle) the number of migratory fish will double after a period entirely by natural regeneration, in other words by themselves.

The reticence of the DAA club is, they say, due to poaching and license complications, which are real. But no doubt they also fear landowners restricting access as an issue that would arise in time.

Just something to mull over. Maybe start fund raising and getting parties willing to sign up to sponsor a section in their location.
If the funds were sourced, and the low costs formalised to fix them in some way, getting that project to go ahead would be an easy thing.
The nature of the equation: benefits to the families of of south Dublin and some long term self sustaining added tourism in the capital would grease the wheels politically.

slowburner

jack01986 wrote: »

Is there much chance of anything being done by the Club? I was looking at all the obstacles along the river for migratory fish and thinking some sort of fish pass or ladder along those stretches would make the river substantially better for the migratory fish. Would there be some people out there who wouldn't want to imprve the fishing as they would have to pay for a salmon/sea-trout licence.

If a river is a recognised salmon and sea trout river, rates become payable. This may explain the reticence.

jack01986

Thanks for that reply coolwings it was very informative. I would like to get involved in something like that in the near future. I think it has some serious potential to become a great river. I wouldnt be afraid of a bit of hard work to help things along. I think I might fire off some emails to a few people see if they have any interest or advice might call on some college contacts.;)

Kippure

slowburner wrote: »

This is the second instance of posters here mentioning illegal 'fishing' on the Dodder.
The fisheries' board or the Gardai won't do anything about it if they don't know about it.
Anglers can be the eyes and ears of fisheries protection - if they do something about it.
Have you contacted either the Gardai or the fisheries protection service when you have witnessed the illegal activity.Whinging about it on an internet chat forum isn't going to help.

Yes i have contacted the gardai by phone, even when concerts were on down in the RDS face to face. And they did go down and sort it out.

I aint a WHINGER.

slowburner

I am delighted that you contacted the relevant authorities. You are certainly not a whinger then. A whinger is someone who bleats on about a problem without actually doing something about it:)

coolwings

If you value your fishing, you have to ruin these guys day every opportunity and every way you find. Never miss a chance.
Because they're destroying your fishing every opportunity they get. They never give the fish a chance.