frustrating trying to break into development

BornIn84

Hi guys,
Currently in a support role in a financial services company for the last 3 and a half years. I'm at the end of my tether at this stage with the job. It's repetative, uninspiring and unfulfilling.I feel like im not using any of the skills i developed in college and feel im getting rusty. I literally am on monster all the time looking for junior developer positions. I have a Bachelor of Science in Computing. I did alot of Java and some SQL during college but my problem is trying to break into the commercial field. Are there any tips you can give me? any way to get my foot in the door??
I shy away from applying for roles that require 2-3 years experience because i dont have any commercially. should i be applying for these roles anyway?
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

rossc007

Best bet is to apply for a junior programming position. From the survey I've seen on boards you should be looking at around the 30k mark. Your degree should be enough to get you into a junior position, but you "could" waffle about your current position to get into a 2-3 years experience role, but you might struggle to hit the ground running.

When I was starting out I used to do a lot of small jobs on rent-a-coder, although PeoplePerHour.com is more popular now. The money isn't great because the developer market is world wide, but the best way to learn is practice, so its perfect for that.

ejkil18

I'm in a similar position myself, I graduated in 2005 with an Information Systems degree, which covered Java, C++, SQL etc plus general SDLC concepts and have wandered into a data analyst field that I find painfully boring - always on the peripheral looking in at all fun being had in development!Is there any courses anyone can recommend as a springboard into development - is it best to become an expert in a particular language or is that spreading yourself to thinly. USP are needed! I know that's a vague question but it's very hard to figure out the best route to go and wrong decisions are pricey (I found out the expensive way that CISCO is not for me!).

John_Mc

Employers are looking for developers who can hit the ground running. Your qualification from college does not prove this, so the only way to get into development is by doing projects in your spare time.

Not only does this benefit you because you learn so much from each project, but you prove to potential employers that you have a passion for developing. It also gives you ample to talk about in the interviews

I did this during college and walked into a development job straight away after graduating. I was able to beef up my C.V by putting the nixers and project into it.

srsly78

Would have advised not to let your career get sidetracked into support, but that's too late. As poster above suggested, just code a lot in your spare time. Build up a portfolio of stuff to talk about/show off. Keep applying for jobs, take a pay cut if necessary. It's worth it in the long run.

PrzemoF

Join an open source project, get some real life programming experience and try to use it instead of "2-3 years experience in similar position". With patches signed with your name on a good project (or a few of them) you can easily proof your skills and that could be enough to convince an employeer that you're the one thay are looking for.

Beano

ejkil18 wrote: »

... - always on the peripheral looking in at all fun being had in development!...

I think there is a bit of a grass is greener thing going on here. Dev is not necessarily any more fun than support or any other IT role. Dont go in to it thinking you will be always be doing new and interesting things. You wont.

fasty

Agreed. Even interesting development has a lot of tedious stuff involved.

I have to say, I don't get how people can recommend that someone with no development experience get involved in contributing to some open source project without prior experience. There's a massive gulf between college programming projects and something that people actually use!

PrzemoF

fasty: been there, done that, so I can recomend it. Pick a project that is interesting for you. Find a bug that seems to be simple to fix (bug tracking systems are your friends) and try to fix it. You may fail -> try again. If you succeed prepare a patch and submit it. Listen to the feedback and remember that "there is no failure only feedback". Do it again and again, every time it will be a little easier than previous time as you gather some knowledge about the code.

You can even start with fixing wrong comments in the code to develop an idea what are the coding standards on the project (yes, I did that as well)

fasty

That's pretty cool! Would you mind telling me what project you worked on?

PrzemoF

Linux kernel (a few very small patches), wacom bluetooth tablet drivers (kernel + xorg), PLD distro (spec files), GpsMid (mobile gps application), screenlets. PM me if you want my details to confirm it with google.

The open source is out there and is waiting for developers

fasty

Impressive!

I know my post appeared very negative, but I think it is just down to my own opinion of people with no experience, something I should reevaluate!

PrzemoF

Thanks!
Sometimes "no experience" = "fresh mind + new, cool ideas". :eek:

EL_Loco

heya OP,

apply for them anyway, in the mean time though seeing as you're in a financial based company maybe help people with their excel stuff, write a few macros etc. It's one of those things where alot of people are using excel but alot of people are doing it badly. VBA is a bit horrible, but at least you'd be getting some "commercial" experience.

There are lots of jobs out there for all round IT guys, bit of dev, bit of support, if you wanted to use one of those as a stepping stone to pure dev them maybe look for those too.

You know how to program, most places just like you to stick to certain rules, use header blocks, document what you've done etc. So the programming itself doesn't change (I mean, it doesn't suddenly become a different language). So, I for one do think you can hit the ground in good shape. Maybe not running, but after 2 weeks of coding 8 hours a day (alledgedly) you'll be flying.

It's not like you're straight from college, you have IT experience. Just massage the truth a bit and maybe do some smaller inhouse development where you are at the moment.

EDIT: OP, have you asked where you are at the moment? seeing as you've been there a while you'd be way ahead in terms of familiarity with the inhouse systems than a developer off the street. If they don't to give you a full role maybe ask to write a few methods/procedures, if they start to see you're well able for it you might get that move you're looking for.

BornIn84

im in a very well known software company that develops accounts software. not much of a chance to code really. thanks for the input loco...im gonna keep lookin..and keep codin!

trellheim

Join an open source project, get some real life programming experience

Awesome answer. Free experience - right there.

G-Money

PrzemoF wrote: »

Join an open source project, get some real life programming experience and try to use it instead of "2-3 years experience in similar position". With patches signed with your name on a good project (or a few of them) you can easily proof your skills and that could be enough to convince an employeer that you're the one thay are looking for.

Is it possible to get into an open source project that develops in C#? I'm thinking about moving more towards development too but I find it hard to motivate myself to do coding in the evenings or weekends.

PrzemoF

Yea, why not? The language doesn't influence the licence of the project. An example: http://sourceforge.net/projects/neurondotnet/ It's licenced under GPLv3

Projects in C# on github:
https://github.com/languages/C%23

That might be interesting if you're not sure what language is popular: https://github.com/languages

stevenmu

Codeplex has a ton of open source .net projects.

G-Money

Excellent cheers.

Will check those sites out to get a few ideas. At the moment I don't really have any ideas for any projects of my own so.

G-Money

Is there a good beginners site out of those? I've had a look at the CodePlex one and it seems kind of over my head

krazyklown

OP, i was in a similar position as yourself. I graduated with a degree in Computer Science in 2004 & worked in a completely unrelated field up to April of this year. I desparately wanted to get into development but was concerned that my lack of industrial experience would be an impossible hurdle to jump. I applied for 24 positions, got three interviews and two job offers. I was surprised that the mini-projects (couple of websites, two small applications) that i had developed in my spare time proved absolutely invaluable in proving that i had a passion & ability for development. Now, for the first time in my adult working life i enjoy going to work, in fact most days i am in early. Im not in the most glamorous position but its challenging me in a way i havent been for years and i have a hunger to prove myself that i havent had in a long time.
The important factors in my job hunt were: get your cv done professionally. I had applied without any reply for a couple of positions. I thought my cv was fine until i got it done professionally and the difference was immediate, i got responses straight away.
Once i started getting interviews i put a huge amount of preparation into them. I had an interview skills session which helped me understand what the interviewer was looking for when they asked certain questions. I compiled a list of possible questions and wrote out answers. I didnt memorize them but it was a huge help as i felt during the interviews that i had prepared as well as i could.
Immediately after each interview i wrote down what i was asked, what i answered, i analysed myself on areas like posture, enthusiasm, what i did well, what i needed to improve on etc so i felt each interview, even if i didnt get the position, was a stepping stone to doing the perfect interview where i would get the position.

I would reiterate the importance of doing small projects or open source etc. It shows your interested but also it gives the interviewer to quiz you so they can find out how you approach problems etc.

Best of luck, if you want pm me if you have any questions.

BornIn84

wow Krazy, thanks so much man...you're right about the CV that's definitely something i have to get right..and i'll look up some interview skills sessions that i might be able to attend. I was surprised that having the mini projects didnt help much but i think you're right because like you said they look for people who are keen and passionate about it....thanks for the tips i'll definitely take them on board.
Cheers

darklighter

krazy, if you dont mind me askin, where did you gey your cv "professionally" done?

mine is pretty useless and as im looking to change jobs, i need it tweaked asap

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

have a look at this requirement company http://www.eolas.ie/ I was 8 months out of college, had only 1 intetview. I was registered with 2 other big requirement companies, got a call once every 5-6 weeks saying are you available, we might have an interview for you. Within 10 mins of registering with eolas i had a phone call about my CV, my experince.....pretty much everything! within 3 weeks I had an interview, and got the job and if i didnt get the job, I had another interview the next day! Cant say enough good things about them, very nice poeople to deal with. Best of luck OP!

BornIn84

Thanks Frank. Will register with them!

krazyklown

@darklighter

apologies i am only after checking back now. i got it done by a girl called fiona fionascvservice.com. she was mentioned in another thread some time ago. Made a dramatic difference to me anyways. ( Disclaimer: i am in no way affiliated with that website or service, just a satisfied customer). Best of luck with it, if i can be of any help dont hesitate to contact me.