Cow Lacking in ??

adne

Bought in an 06 cow with jan calf at foot few weeks back, she a big sim cow but very empty looking and ribs begining to show.

Done her for fluke straight away but she has not picked up since, she not coughing or anything. She got watery dung all the time.

She just broke yesterday after been 3 mths to the bull..

anyone any tips on what she could be lacking in.....

whelan1

do her for rumen fluke, maybe give her a few white powders for a few days

reilig

BVD could be another cause. Do you vaccinate or have you tested for PI's?

whelan1

reilig wrote: »

BVD could be another cause. Do you vaccinate or have you tested for PI's?

or johnes? dont want lc jumping down at me for diagnosing over the internet :cool:

adne

reilig wrote: »

BVD could be another cause. Do you vaccinate or have you tested for PI's?

She has been done for BVD, could not imagine she a PI as she is a 5 year old on her 3rd calve. dont think a PI would make it to that age

whelan1

has she had a multivit injection or is there licks with them?

Kovu

adne wrote: »

Bought in an 06 cow with jan calf at foot few weeks back, she a big sim cow but very empty looking and ribs begining to show.

Done her for fluke straight away but she has not picked up since, she not coughing or anything. She got watery dung all the time.

She just broke yesterday after been 3 mths to the bull..

anyone any tips on what she could be lacking in.....

Sounds like cobalt according to this.
www.sac.ac.uk/mainrep/pdfs/tn572traceelementdisorders.pdf

Birdnuts

Karen112 wrote: »

Sounds like cobalt according to this.
www.sac.ac.uk/mainrep/pdfs/tn572traceelementdisorders.pdf

Yep - had a young cow last year with similiar symtoms and this cured her:)

ihatetractors

whelan1 wrote: »

or johnes? dont want lc jumping down at me for diagnosing over the internet :cool:

Better hope not, he'll be man admining Europe rideling us for over use of medicines over next 10ish years causing build up resistance!! (if he realy is minister for AG as someone mentioned before somewhere!)

LostCovey

ihatetractors wrote: »

Better hope not, he'll be man admining Europe rideling us for over use of medicines over next 10ish years causing build up resistance!! (if he realy is minister for AG as someone mentioned before somewhere!)

That isn't the clearest thing you've ever said ihatetractors, but relax, I have no intention of rideling you, ever, even with your written consent..

Anyway, glad to see I am never far from Whelan1's thoughts.

Actually I think that diagnosing over the internet is the way to go, so I used an online diagnosis engine to shortlist those cattle diseases that present with diarrhoea, inappetence, weight loss in adult cows, and the list is below.

Any of the diseases suggested above is certainly possible, and so is any of the diseases listed below.

Take your pick.

LC

Abomasal, duodenal or intestinal ulcers or perforation in ruminants
Acorn, oak, quercus, poisoning in ruminants
Acute molybdenum toxicity in cattle
Aflatoxin toxicity, aflatoxicosis in cattle
Amyloidosis in ruminants
Anticoagulant, rodenticide, toxicity
Aplastic anemia, bone marrow aplasia, pancytopenia, hemorrhagic diathesis
Arsenic toxicity in large animals
Babesiosis, babesia, in food animals- exotic- zoonosis
Bluetongue
Bog asphodel, narthecium ossifragum, poisoning in cattle- exotic
Bovine leukocyte adhesion deficiency, blad, in holstein cattle
Bovine viral, virus, diarrhea, bvd, mucosal disease, pestivirus
Brassica species poisoning in ruminants
Brisket, high altitude, mountain, disease of cattle
Candidiasis, candida
Cardiac, pericardial, neoplasia, heart tumors, in horses and cattle
Cecal dilation, dilatation, impaction, displacement of the ruminant cecum
Chediak-higashi syndrome in cattle
Chlamydophila pecorum sporadic bovine encephalomyelitis
Chlorinated naphthalene toxicity, bovine hyperkeratosis
Cholelithiasis, choledocholithiasis, gall stones in horses, cattle, and sheep
Chronic copper toxicity in cattle
Chronic lymphocytic enteritis of cattle
Chronic selenium toxicity in cattle
Cobalt toxicity in cattle and sheep
Cobalt, vitamin b12, cobalamin, deficiency in ruminants
Coccidiosis, eimeria , eimeriosis, in ruminants
Cocklebur, xanthium sp., poisoning in cattle and sheep
Coenuriasis, coenurosis, taenia, cysticercosis, cestodiasis
Colibacillosis, escherichia coli, calf scours
Coliform, escherichia coli, klebsiella, mastitis in cows
Copper deficiency, chronic molybdenum toxicity in cattle
Coronavirus in calves and cattle, bovine winter dysentery
Cryptosporidiosis, cryptosporidium- zoonosis
Cucumis poisoning in cattle and sheep- exotic
Cystitis, pyelonephritis, renal abscess, bladder infection in ruminants
Dermatitis, pruritus, pyrexia, and hemorrhage syndrome of dairy cows
Diabetes mellitus in large animals
Dietary, obstructive, foreign body, abomasal, omasal, impaction
Dilated, congestive, cardiomyopathy in cattle
Eastern equine encephalomyelitis, eee- zoonosis
Echinococcosis, hydatidosis - zoonosis
Endocarditis in ruminants
Enzootic calf pneumonia, bronchopneumonia
Eosinophilic enteritis in cattle
Fat necrosis in cattle and goats, lipomatosis
Festuca, summer, poisoning, fescue foot, in cattle and sheep
Gangrenous ergotism or hyperthermia, ergot toxicity in cattle
Gastrointestinal parasitism, abomasum, small, large intestine, rumen
Giardiasis in ruminants- zoonosis
Gossypol toxicity, cottonseed poisoning, in ruminants
Heartwater, ehrlichia ruminantium, in ruminants- exotic- zoonosis
Hemochromatosis of salers and salers-cross cattle
Hemorrhagic syndrome due to bracken, mulga, rock fern poisoning
Hepatic lipodystrophy of galloway calves
Hepatic, liver, biliary, bile duct neoplasia in ruminants
Infectious bovine rhinotracheitis, ibr, bhv, herpesvirus 1, pustular vulvovaginitis, ipv
Intestinal incarceration, entrapment, hernia, strangulation, obstruction, foreign body, in cattle
Intestinal neoplasia, carcinoma, adenocarcinoma, in ruminants
Intussusception in ruminants
Ipomoea carnea poisoning in ruminants
Ketosis, subclinical, clinical, nervous, pregnancy toxemia, in cattle
Lead toxicity in ruminants
Left av, mitral valve insufficiency, regurgitation, dysplasia in large animals
Left displacement of the abomasum, lda
Lethal trait a 46, parakeratosis, zinc deficiency in calves
Listeriosis, listeria, in ruminants- zoonosis
Liver fluke disease, fasciolosis, trematodes, in ruminants- zoonosis
Liver, hepatic disease, hepatogenous photosensitization, due to poisoning, toxicity
Liver, hepatic, abscess in ruminants
Lungworm, dictyocaulus viviparus, parasitic bronchitis, dictyocaulosis, in cattle
Lymphoid or myelomonocytic leukemia in cattle
Lymphosarcoma, bovine lymphoma, leukosis, enzootic, sporadic, juvenile, thymic
Malignant catarrhal fever, ovine herpesvirus-2, alcelaphine herpesvirus-1
Mannheimia haemolytica, pasteurella multocida, pneumonia, shipping fever
Mannheimia, pasteurella , mastitis
Mercury toxicity in cattle
Mesothelioma
Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis, johne's disease
Nitrate, nitrite, poisoning in ruminants
Organochlorine, chlorinated hydrocarbon toxicity
Organophosphate or carbamate toxicity
Ovarian tumors, neoplasia, teratoma, epidermoid cysts, hamartomas, in ruminants
Oxalate poisoning or ethylene glycol toxicity in ruminants
Pancreatic neoplasia in cattle
Papular stomatitis in cattle- zoonosis
Paramyxovirus sporadic bovine meningoencephalomyelitis- exotic
Pericarditis, tamponade, in cattle
Peritonitis
Petechial fever, cytoecetes ondiri, ondiri disease in cattle- exotic
Petroleum hydrocarbon toxicity in ruminants
Pigweed, amaranthus, poisoning, nephrotoxicosis in swine and ruminants
Pimelea poisoning, st. george, marree disease - exotic
Postparturient hemoglobinuria
Privet, ligustrum, poisoning in large animals
Pyrrolizidine alkaloid poisoning in ruminants and horses
Rabies, lyssavirus- zoonosis
Renal, kidney, failure, dysplasia, acute or chronic, in ruminants
Right volvulus, torsion, of the abomasum in cattle, rta, rva
Rotavirus, rotaviral diarrhea in calves, lambs, and kids
Ruminal acidosis, grain overload
Ruptured gallbladder or cholangiohepatitis in cattle
Salmonella in cattle, bovine salmonellosis- zoonosis
Sarcocystosis in ruminants
Sawfly larval toxicity in ruminants - exotic
Schistosomiasis in ruminants - exotic
Sporadic, multiple, cardiac, heart, cardiovascular anomalies, malformations, defects
Stachybotryotoxicosis in large animals - exotic
Systemic algal, algae, chlorella infection in sheep, cattle and dogs
Theileriosis, theileria, in ruminants
Thrombosis of the cranial or caudal vena cava in cattle
Traumatic reticuloperitonitis in ruminants, hardware, foreign body
Trichuris in ruminants, whipworm
Trypanosomiasis, trypanosomosis, in ruminants-zoonosis
Tung oil tree, aleurites, poisoning in cattle
Urinary tract disease in portugese beef cattle- exotic
Vagal, vagus indigestion, abomasal impaction, pyloric stenosis
Vesicular stomatitis- zoonosis
Vetch, vicia, poisoning granulomatous disease in cattle
Vitamin a deficiency in ruminants
Water intoxication, toxicity, salt poisoning, of ruminants
Zinc toxicity in cattle and sheep
Zygomycosis, mucormycosis, phycomycosis

Bizzum

He bends..............He lifts..............He strikes.........

ihatetractors

LostCovey wrote: »

That isn't the clearest thing you've ever said ihatetractors, but relax, I have no intention of rideling you, ever, even with your written consent..

No, i was never known for articulate grammar ,
No it's just read on a certain forum that with the new MRSA in milk in England/ E-coli from germany.. Eu/ public opinion will mean we're in for a change in operating procedure towards anti-biotics/ resistance and all those lovely sort of things tbh.

pakalasa

Christ, that's some list LC.
Maybe, she just has the 'runs'.:D

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

Christ, that's some list LC.
Maybe, she just has the 'runs'.:D

That's about all we can be sure of!

blue5000

at least cobalt deficiency is on the list:P

Kovu

blue5000 wrote: »

at least cobalt deficiency is on the list:P

Hahaha. I don't like the idea of diagnosis over the internet either, but it helps to get someone like LostCovey to 'shortlist' it.:p

adne

whelan1 wrote: »

has she had a multivit injection or is there licks with them?

Have licks alright, would u recommend a multivit injection

Bizzum

How are we going to deal with this in future. The way I see it there are a few options when someone posts an issue with an ailing beast of some sort.

Tell them to ring the Vet.
Point them to LC's list.
Tell them of your own experience in a similar case.

All the above have merits of some sort. Maybe there are more options?

Personally I favour the last on the list, but there should be a caveat, implicit, stated or otherwise, that the advice is one's experience, that it is advice, that it is afterall the internet (and you could be talking to a 14 year old girl talking through her arse), And no matter what anyone on here says the buck must stop with the stockman himself.
There is no substitute for good stockmanship.
Anyway. What are peoples thoughts? This keeps coming up.

reilig

Where is this list????

Can someone repost it???

My spam filter must have blocked it.

Sounds like the ultimate tool in animal diagnostics :eek:

Kovu

Bizzum wrote: »

How are we going to deal with this in future. The way I see it there are a few options when someone posts an issue with an ailing beast of some sort.

Tell them to ring the Vet.
Point them to LC's list.
Tell them of your own experience in a similar case.

All the above have merits of some sort. Maybe there are more options?

Personally I favour the last on the list, but there should be a caveat, implicit, stated or otherwise, that the advice is one's experience, that it is advice, that it is afterall the internet (and you could be talking to a 14 year old girl talking through her arse), And no matter what anyone on here says the buck must stop with the stockman himself.
There is no substitute for good stockmanship.
Anyway. What are peoples thoughts? This keeps coming up.

Each to their own opinion on this but I reckon anyone asking for advice regarding livestock on Boards, would already have had the advice and treatment of a vet or else tried their own remedy. If they ask for advice here, then I feel that if anyone has had a similar experience and had success with certain method of treatment, it's worth something. If even for giving the owner something new to try and to give some hope to him (or her)
But people who are just giving speculative answers are the problem as you mentioned. And it's hard to know who to listen to as we are all just hiding behind a computer screen. And the final say is with the owner, so if they want to ask the public for opinions, they can. Who's to say they are going to follow it.:rolleyes:

LostCovey

Bizzum wrote: »

How are we going to deal with this in future. The way I see it there are a few options when someone posts an issue with an ailing beast of some sort.

Tell them to ring the Vet.
Point them to LC's list.
Tell them of your own experience in a similar case.

All the above have merits of some sort. Maybe there are more options?

Personally I favour the last on the list, but there should be a caveat, implicit, stated or otherwise, that the advice is one's experience, that it is advice, that it is afterall the internet (and you could be talking to a 14 year old girl talking through her arse), And no matter what anyone on here says the buck must stop with the stockman himself.
There is no substitute for good stockmanship.
Anyway. What are peoples thoughts? This keeps coming up.

I think this is a reasonable suggestion.

And no reasonable person could object to that, but my experience on this forum is that some opinions are offered with authority, swagger and confidence.

There frequently is no caveat , implicit, explicit or otherwise in much of the advice offered. In fact, in this particular example, Whelan1 diagnosed and confidently prescribed powders based on their colour - and I quote

do her for rumen fluke, maybe give her a few white powders for a few day

White powder, as we all know, isn't always good for you.

LostCovey

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

Where is this list????

Can someone repost it???

My spam filter must have blocked it.

Sounds like the ultimate tool in animal diagnostics :eek:

Hi Reilig,

Sorry about that.

However there's really no point re-posting the full list if your spam filter is blocking it. It would probably block the re-posted one too. Maybe try reading the mails on this forum online with your browser, rather than as emails? You internet browser won't have a spam filter. Far be it for me to make diagnoses on your spam filter over the internet! So I am only offering an ill-informed opinion.....

Anyway you can look the tool up for yourself & generate your own list, as it's freely available. Even in Leitrim.

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/consultant/consult.asp

Best Regards,

LostCovey

Bizzum

[QUOTE Whelan1 diagnosed and confidently prescribed powders based on their colour - and I quote

do her for rumen fluke, maybe give her a few white powders for a few day

White powder, as we all know, isn't always good for you.

LostCovey[/QUOTE]

No doubt we can all tighten up on our terminology.
Whelan1 does'nt need me to fight her corner, but in this case it is overly simplistic to state that the prescribed powder was purely on colour alone.
I, and I suspect most other posters knew exactly what was ment by 'a few white powders' indeed our vet prescribes the same betimes. A pink tablet for example would also be widely understood!
Again I take your other points, and will post with them in mind, as I think I usually do.

whelan1

Bizzum wrote: »

[QUOTE Whelan1 diagnosed and confidently prescribed powders based on their colour - and I quote

do her for rumen fluke, maybe give her a few white powders for a few day

White powder, as we all know, isn't always good for you.

LostCovey

No doubt we can all tighten up on our terminology.
Whelan1 does'nt need me to fight her corner, but in this case it is overly simplistic to state that the prescribed powder was purely on colour alone.
I, and I suspect most other posters knew exactly what was ment by 'a few white powders' indeed our vet prescribes the same betimes. A pink tablet for example would also be widely understood!
Again I take your other points, and will post with them in mind, as I think I usually do.[/QUOTE]
how is the cow ? did you give her anything?

adne

whelan1 wrote: »

No doubt we can all tighten up on our terminology.
Whelan1 does'nt need me to fight her corner, but in this case it is overly simplistic to state that the prescribed powder was purely on colour alone.
I, and I suspect most other posters knew exactly what was ment by 'a few white powders' indeed our vet prescribes the same betimes. A pink tablet for example would also be widely understood!
Again I take your other points, and will post with them in mind, as I think I usually do.

how is the cow ? did you give her anything?[/QUOTE]

going to chat my local vet tomorrow and see what he recommends, she not going to fade overnight, just notice that she is not thriving

adne

Bizzum wrote: »

How are we going to deal with this in future. The way I see it there are a few options when someone posts an issue with an ailing beast of some sort.

Tell them to ring the Vet.
Point them to LC's list.
Tell them of your own experience in a similar case.

All the above have merits of some sort. Maybe there are more options?

Personally I favour the last on the list, but there should be a caveat, implicit, stated or otherwise, that the advice is one's experience, that it is advice, that it is afterall the internet (and you could be talking to a 14 year old girl talking through her arse), And no matter what anyone on here says the buck must stop with the stockman himself.
There is no substitute for good stockmanship.
Anyway. What are peoples thoughts? This keeps coming up.

I think you are over analyzing this Bizzum, it was a simple question that i through out there to see if other posters had similar issue. I would not expect a pin point diagnosis :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I would take it for granted that all users on this forum realize that advice provided from fellow posters must be taken with a pince of salt.

In my mind the farming forumn is the modern Equivalent of three or four farmers having a chat at a local mart and picking each others brains on issues they encountered recently in their day to day work on their farms..

keep going

adne wrote: »

I think you are over analyzing this Bizzum, it was a simple question that i through out there to see if other posters had similar issue. I would not expect a pin point diagnosis :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I would take it for granted that all users on this forum realize that advice provided from fellow posters must be taken with a pince of salt.

In my mind the farming forumn is the modern Equivalent of three or four farmers having a chat at a local mart and picking each others brains on issues they encountered recently in their day to day work on their farms..

spot on adne

reilig

adne wrote: »

I think you are over analyzing this Bizzum, it was a simple question that i through out there to see if other posters had similar issue. I would not expect a pin point diagnosis :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I would take it for granted that all users on this forum realize that advice provided from fellow posters must be taken with a pince of salt.

In my mind the farming forumn is the modern Equivalent of three or four farmers having a chat at a local mart and picking each others brains on issues they encountered recently in their day to day work on their farms..

Exactly. Its a discussion forum at the end of the day. A place where people can share their experiences and ideas. If someone comes on here looking to diagnose an animal illness with no intention of bringing the animal to their vet, then they really aren't capable of farming. I don't think the Mods need to put up a sticky reminding people that if an animal is sick then the first port of call should be their vet???

As for those who appear to get pleasure out criticising, belittleing and offending people on this forum, there is a simple solution. If you click on their user name and click on ignore, their posts will be blocked from your view. Like all pests, if you ignore them, they soon get tired and stop annoying you. And even if they don't have the capacity to get the hint, by having them on your ignore list, you won't be faced with their posts.

Tipp Man

adne wrote: »

I think you are over analyzing this Bizzum, it was a simple question that i through out there to see if other posters had similar issue. I would not expect a pin point diagnosis :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I would take it for granted that all users on this forum realize that advice provided from fellow posters must be taken with a pince of salt.

In my mind the farming forumn is the modern Equivalent of three or four farmers having a chat at a local mart and picking each others brains on issues they encountered recently in their day to day work on their farms..

Nail on the head with that

Good to see that the vast majority on this forum aren't complete tools

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

Where is this list????

Can someone repost it???

My spam filter must have blocked it.

Sounds like the ultimate tool in animal diagnostics :eek:

How do I get myself 1 of dem der spam filters??

Could be very useful

johngalway

Tipp Man wrote: »

How do I get myself 1 of dem der spam filters??

Could be very useful

I think Reilig may be talking about the Ignore feature. If you look at my sig at the bottom of this post it tells you how to find it.

Bizzum

adne wrote: »

I think you are over analyzing this Bizzum, it was a simple question that i through out there to see if other posters had similar issue. I would not expect a pin point diagnosis :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don't think I am. Other threads that asked a similar health related question went the same way.
If you fully read my original post you will see what I favour.

Bizzum

Tipp Man wrote: »

Nail on the head with that

Good to see that the vast majority on this forum aren't complete tools

Is that aimed at me?

An.Duine.Eile

How's the cow doing ?

Bizzum

reilig wrote: »

Exactly. Its a discussion forum at the end of the day. A place where people can share their experiences and ideas. If someone comes on here looking to diagnose an animal illness with no intention of bringing the animal to their vet, then they really aren't capable of farming. I don't think the Mods need to put up a sticky reminding people that if an animal is sick then the first port of call should be their vet???

Again if you read fully me post you will see that this is what I favour.

As for those who appear to get pleasure out criticising, belittleing and offending people on this forum, there is a simple solution.

Is this for my benefit?

reilig

Bizzum wrote: »

Is this for my benefit?

Definitely not for your benefit Bizzum. I read your post and agree with you!!

Tipp Man

Bizzum wrote: »

Is that aimed at me?

Most definately not

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

Exactly. Its a discussion forum at the end of the day. A place where people can share their experiences and ideas.

Precisely Reilig, I fully agree.

But those ideas won't all be the same, and people coming from diverse points of viewwon't always agree. However whenever I see a group of people tackling the person instead of the argument, it suggests they have given up on their argument.........

I just think there is a difference between going on a forum and asking, say:

Any ideas on how I can loosen a rusty bolt

as against

Any ideas what chemicals I can put into a food-producing animal to treat something that it may or may not have, and that you may or may not be able to guess.

I believe the latter is irresponsible, and damaging to the image of our animal-derived food production. I have raised this before, and I may raise it again

As you almost said Reilig, all God's creatures have a place in the choir.

LostCovey

Kovu

LostCovey wrote: »

Precisely Reilig, I fully agree.

But those ideas won't all be the same, and people coming from diverse points of viewwon't always agree. However whenever I see a group of people tackling the person instead of the argument, it suggests they have given up on their argument.........

I just think there is a difference between going on a forum and asking, say:

Any ideas on how I can loosen a rusty bolt

as against

Any ideas what chemicals I can put into a food-producing animal to treat something that it may or may not have, and that you may or may not be able to guess.

I believe the latter is irresponsible, and damaging to the image of our animal-derived food production. I have raised this before, and I may raise it again

As you almost said Reilig, all God's creatures have a place in the choir.

LostCovey

I see your point. But at the end of the day, it is more reassuring to hear back viewpoints from people who may have had a similar experience. For instance, if I see a cow looking off and I suspect that she may have eaten a nail or something, AFTER getting a vet to look at her, I'd ask around to see what other people may seen regarding symptoms etc. I know I'm not on boards that long, simply because I didn't know it existed. But for me, I've seen enough bad vets, who do not farm themselves, and work on a book diagnosis scale. For me, people who are around animals, and know them because it is their livelihood have a better understanding of the animal. (Not better treatment of the animal, just the animal itself)
Any farmer that looks at his cattle every day, will know if one is off. And as this topic started, it may not be because she is ill, just off thrive. So in that understanding, simply a general query to the public is nearly as good as paying the 50 quid or so for a vet to come and look at her, because she isn't exactly at death's door. This is only my view, I don't know how many will agree with me on it. The final shout is with the owner, if they prefer to ask rather than treat immediately, then my only hope is that they know the animal isn't on its last legs.

Bizzum

LostCovey wrote: »

As you almost said Reilig, all God's creatures have a place in the choir.

As long as our choir can remain in harmony, and we are all singing off the same hymn sheet!

I shall endeavour to persevere:)