Gay Pride - Embarrassing or Empowering?

El Horseboxo

I've 2 gay mates and they hate the parades. They said it's the only time of the year that they actually get any shít about their sexuality. Mainly due to all the marketing and promotion of it portraying the stereotypical homosexual.

tim_holsters

Gays have had to deal with so much bigoted prejudice down the years that having a festival once every year is the least they deserve. To think decriminalization in this country happened less than 20 years ago. Fúcking retarded.

philologos

OP: I don't really care and I don't see much point of a parade on the basis of sexuality. It would be an absurdity if there was a parade for heterosexuality, perhaps it would be even deemed inappropriate. For me sexuality isn't an identity, it's just something as to whom you are attracted to on a sexual level. Ultimately it is up to the city council and the Government to decide what they think should or shouldn't be held.

Dudess

Some gay people do make too much of a song and dance (more than likely a Kylie one :pac:) of the fact that they're gay despite most people not giving a sh1t, but I hate the way that's then used to dismiss genuine grievances held by gay people - they do not have equal rights in all senses. No amount of "I'm not homophobic but gay people are accepted in society now and should keep quiet about being gay" changes that. Plus, in many parts of the world, gay people still face terrible prejudice - not just in places like Uganda, but right here on this island. Just because Dublin is an ok place to live if you're gay, doesn't mean Listowel is. And I don't particularly buy into "Oh Ireland, 'tis terrible repressed still" stuff.

Seachmall

tim_holsters wrote: »

Gays have had to deal with so much bigoted prejudice down the years that having a festival once every year is the least they deserve.

To be honest; that's bull****.

Those who were persecuted deserve some sort of reimbursement (although I can't of anything that would qualify as reimbursement to someone who was punished for being themselves) but not everyone who is gay does. You can't just group all gay people together and say they were all victimized, to me that demeans what the actual victims went through.

Being gay doesn't make you a victim-by-proxy. As far as I'm concerned being gay says absolutely nothing about you nor anything about what you do and don't deserve. Saying someone deserves something because of their sexuality is the labeling and grouping that causes these problems in the first place.

Sleepy

diddlybit wrote: »

Really? That many? We are obviously living in different countries.

Perhaps "significant minority" may have been a better choice of words? There's certainly enough gay guys acting in an annoyingly camp fashion that it's become an unfortunate (and inaccurate) stereotype for all gay men.

Would you even debate the point with me that the majority of Irish women wearing fake tan?

A protest about discrimination should be about that discrimination; a demand for it to be ended. A public display of the stereotypes held about the group being discriminated against serves no other purpose than to reinforce those stereotypes.

tim_holsters

Seachmall wrote: »

To be honest; that's bull****.

Those who were persecuted deserve some sort of reimbursement (although I can't of anything that would qualify as reimbursement to someone who was punished for being themselves) but not everyone who is gay does. You can't just group all gay people together and say they were all victimized, to me that demeans what the actual victims went through.

Being gay doesn't make you a victim-by-proxy. As far as I'm concerned being gay says absolutely nothing about you nor anything about what you do and don't deserve. Saying someone deserves something because of their sexuality is the labeling and grouping that causes these problems in the first place.

Yeah well, to this day Gays in this country don't have equality. That's bullshít.

philologos

Dudess wrote: »

Some gay people do make too much of a song and dance (more than likely a Kylie one :pac:) of the fact that they're gay despite most people not giving a sh1t, but I hate the way that's then used to dismiss genuine grievances held by gay people - they do not have equal rights in all senses. No amount of "I'm not homophobic but gay people are accepted in society now and should keep quiet about being gay" changes that. Plus, in many parts of the world, gay people still face terrible prejudice - not just in places like Uganda, but right here on this island. Just because Dublin is an ok place to live if you're gay, doesn't mean Listowel is. And I don't particularly buy into "Oh Ireland, 'tis terrible repressed still" stuff.

Nobody is saying that LGBT people shouldn't organise politically and lobby the State as other interest groups in society do. What one could question is how the Pride parade actually furthers this in a tangible sense.

diddlybit

Sleepy wrote: »

Would you even debate the point with me that the majority of Irish women wearing fake tan?

Nope, wouldn't debate this. But would debate that the majority use so much as to make themselves "orange".

A protest about discrimination should be about that discrimination; a demand for it to be ended. A public display of the stereotypes held about the group being discriminated against serves no other purpose than to reinforce those stereotypes.

Last years theme was "We are Family Too" examining the lack of LGBT rights affording to families. 22,000 people attending of which I can guarentee included teachers, civil servants, old people, young people, students, families, business people and the unemployed. They all dressed up in miniscule clothing and covered themselves in body glitter. The women all had fo-hawks and the men, even if they did not have one before, adopted a lisp for the day. None of them normally dress/act like that but sure, if you didn't look like a sterotype, how the hell would all the confused straight people looking at the parade know that you were gay. Sometimes a rainbow scarf just ain't enough. :eek:

You should have seen it, a sight to behold 22,000 sterotypes walking through the streets of Dublin. They were cleaning up the glitter for days.

efb

Right as a gay man I feel that Gay Pride is a good thing and an important thing for me and Gay people to be Proud of and to celebrate.

It was the Stonewall riots that sparked the Gay Rights movement and it was the Drag Queens and the rent boys that stood up for them. While the closet cases skulked back to their wives.

This started off the civil rights movement that began to gain gay people rights and society's acceptance of homosexuality, so I will be in my civvies marching on Saturday but I'm damn proud to march with the Drag Queens and the Twinks.

There are lots of groups whose behaviours upset me in society, like car enthusiasts for example. I can say well I'm ok with the guy who meticulously polishes his classic each Saturday but I don't like boy racers cars and their dress (I don't) but I acknowledge that they are entitled to dress that way and make their 1l cars look hideous. Once they are not infringing on my rights I can't feel like I can impose a certain lifestyle on them.

And it's great to hear that so many people have no issue with gay people, and for younger gays, the struggle is made easier, but still lives are being made difficult in work and elsewhere by people who don't agree with homosexuality and older people who are gay can't come out by the obstacles put in their place by people who, are in powerful positions, and don't agree with homosexuality.

The fight for equality is far from over, and I will keep marching while the inequality still exists.

philologos

efb wrote: »

The fight for equality is far from over, and I will keep marching while the inequality still exists.

How do you feel the Pride parade furthers that aim though?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

I've always thought them to be counter-productive as they highlight differences rather than strive for equality

I would imagine that if I was gay I would tell you that it is just one aspect of my personality, ie I am a man who happens to be gay, not a "gay man"

That said they look like they're having good craic and aren't hurting anyone, but I reckon it would irritate the hell outta me if I was gay

prinz

Shiloh Putrid Cocaine wrote: »

I've always thought them to be counter-productive as they highlight differences rather than strive for equality..

This. It reinforces the notion of defining yourself by your sexuality.

Mike 1972

Chorcai wrote: »

Marching around the country saying we a gay when 99% of Ireland accepts and know of gay people isn't going to get much.

When that day comes I might agree with you

Sleepy

diddlybit wrote: »

Nope, wouldn't debate this. But would debate that the majority use so much as to make themselves "orange".



Last years theme was "We are Family Too" examining the lack of LGBT rights affording to families. 22,000 people attending of which I can guarentee included teachers, civil servants, old people, young people, students, families, business people and the unemployed. They all dressed up in miniscule clothing and covered themselves in body glitter. The women all had fo-hawks and the men, even if they did not have one before, adopted a lisp for the day. None of them normally dress/act like that but sure, if you didn't look like a sterotype, how the hell would all the confused straight people looking at the parade know that you were gay. Sometimes a rainbow scarf just ain't enough. :eek:

You should have seen it, a sight to behold 22,000 sterotypes walking through the streets of Dublin. They were cleaning up the glitter for days.

I'd have gone for banners myself but hey, maybe I'm just a traditionalist. To me, a protest march is about proving the numbers that agree with your demand for political change, not about proving what a nuisance you can be to the street sweepers.

The attention whoring does more to detract from the serious issues than to promote them, imho.

Sleepy

efb wrote: »

The fight for equality is far from over, and I will keep marching while the inequality still exists.

Why not do it in a fashion more likely to persuade than annoy?

efb

philologos wrote: »

How do you feel the Pride parade furthers that aim though?

Like all marches and mass movement of people do to highlight and further their cause. it raises their voice, makes them heard as a collective.

People power can move mountains. This is why people march, to instigate change.

Pride, again is a celebration of what we have achieved, and a push for equality.

It reinforces the notion of defining yourself by your sexuality.

We are denied rights because of our sexuality, we march to say their is nothing wrong with our sexuality, and we our proud of it and we wont hide or pretend there is something wrong with that.

Women marched because of their gender, they were being discriminated against, Black people their race, and single fathers, because of their marital status. These things denied them equal rights, they march and to protest against the discrimination and to say their is nothing wrong with who they are, because of their gender, race or marital status.

efb

Sleepy wrote: »

Why not do it in a fashion more likely to persuade than annoy?

annoy whom?

Dudess

Well if it's too OTT it can come across as attention-seeking, and perhaps is less likely to be taken seriously. I would apply that to any march, not just a Pride one. E.g. I condemn Israeli occupation fully, but there's still something that kinda bugs me about a lot of the protestors when the Palestine solidarity movement holds marches on a Saturday. Bit too full of self righteousness IMO.

man.about.town

rochey84 wrote: »

Its about achieving equal status, as it stands, gay people cannot get Married, or adopt children in the eyes of the state, Gay Pride is initally about that! When straight people are treated like second class citizens then maybe there will be a straight pride parade

it looks fun and theres nothing wrong with that but if thats the reason its not a very good parade. from what i see it would have a negative effect on trying to show maturity in having a child or getting married.

Amhran Nua

Dudess wrote: »

but there's still something that kinda bugs me about a lot of the protestors when the Palestine solidarity movement holds marches on a Saturday.

That's because they aren't pro palestine, they are anti USA, it's the usual rentacrowd.

On topic, I wouldn't define myself by my sexuality, and if I did I doubt anyone would care. I've loads and loads of friends who are gay, bi, and lesbian, not to mention some truly outrageous (in a good way) drag queens, and it really doesn't bother me where they sleep at night. If they are nice people, they are alright with me. Do I think a gay pride march is a good thing? Sure, why not, but I don't think anyone really cares - this ain't the 1950s anymore.

montane

I dont care too much about parades but would rather not see lads walking down the street in PVC suits with the arse cheek gone out of them, gay or straight.

barrackali

I'm sorry if this offends but I find the whole "Gay Pride" event totally embarrassing...how the hell can you be proud of a crap parade? The whole thing of parading your sexuality is just strange to me.

efb

montane wrote: »

I dont care too much about parades but would rather not see lads walking down the street in PVC suits with the arse cheek gone out of them, gay or straight.

what about women?

Min

At least they do it in summer because pride comes before a fall.

efb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1EuOjGs4KI

dsmythy

Just because you're gay, doesn't mean you should act like anything less than a man.

efb

dsmythy wrote: »

Just because you're gay, doesn't mean you should act like anything less than a man.

How does a man act?

dsmythy

efb wrote: »

How does a man act?

In many ways. But not how some will act at the gay pride parade.

efb

dsmythy wrote: »

In many ways. But not how some will act at the gay pride parade.

The women?

Annasopra

dsmythy wrote: »

In many ways. But not how some will act at the gay pride parade.

and?

dsmythy

And it is beneath them to act in such ways.

efb

dsmythy wrote: »

And it is beneath them to act in such ways.

as defined by whom?

dsmythy

efb wrote: »

as defined by whom?

It ought to be defined by themselves through self respect.

efb

dsmythy wrote: »

It ought to be defined by themselves through self respect.

So I determine how I act is manly, and respect myself for that.

dsmythy

efb wrote: »

So I determine how I act is manly, and resect myself for that.

Acting like an attention seeking entertaining poodle rolling over to get it's belly scratched does not make a man. A love between two men is a powerful thing. These displays of "pride" by the minority are superficial self defacing crap.

efb

dsmythy wrote: »

Acting like an attention seeking entertaining poodle rolling over to get it's belly scratched does not make a man. A love between two men is a powerful thing. These displays of "pride" by the minority are superficial self defacing crap.

So you define it then?

diddlybit

dsmythy wrote: »

A love between two men is a powerful thing.

How Greek. :rolleyes:

efb

dsmythy wrote: »

A love between two men is a powerful thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkAVfsw5xSQ

dsmythy

efb wrote: »

So you define it then?

That would take some writing. Respect is a huge part of being human. Be it as a male or a female . Those public displays of this behaviour flies in the face of it. Being gay shouldn't mean to reduce oneself to that. Luckily for most it doesn't.

diddlybit

So the issue with anycommitting attention seeking behavior, by your definition, or just when gay people do it?

Because I've could have sworn that I saw a guy on Dame Street on Saturday night on his back looking for his belly to be scratched...

efb

dsmythy wrote: »

That would take some writing. Respect is a huge part of being human. Be it as a male or a female . Those public displays of this behaviour flies in the face of it. Being gay shouldn't mean to reduce oneself to that. Luckily for most it doesn't.

"Those Public Displays"- what are those?

Annasopra

efb wrote: »

as defined by whom?

Dsmythy - moral arbiter

efb

diddlybit wrote: »

Because I've could have sworn that I saw a guy on Dame Street on Saturday night on his back looking for his belly to be scratched...

What was he doing on his back??? We all know what he should be doing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB27HiYSvmc

dsmythy

diddlybit wrote: »

So the issue with anycommitting attention seeking behavior, by your definition, or just when gay people do it?

Because I've could have sworn that I saw a guy on Dame Street on Saturday night on his back looking for his belly to be scratched...

Ha ha no doubt.

The behaviour and mindset and the society that creates it irks me, regardless of who is doing it and why. When the local authorities spend money on an organised expression of it, it's worse.

dsmythy

efb wrote: »

"Those Public Displays"- what are those?

Males not acting like men as mentioned.

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Dsmythy - moral arbiter

How ya doing

plein de force

as a gay person i find it cringey
Nothing against anyone who takes part in it each to their own and all that.
I just find playing up to negative stereotypes that you try to banish is counterproductive at the very least.

Zillah

plein de force wrote: »

as a gay person i find it cringey
Nothing against anyone who takes part in it each to their own and all that.
I just find playing up to negative stereotypes that you try to banish is counterproductive at the very least.

I agree. The other day someone commented that I was very "straight acting". The tacky campy crap of pride only reinforces the notion that gay people are mincing fairies who love colourful trash. They don't represent me, and they're so prominent that everyone assumes they do.

efb

Zillah wrote: »

I agree. The other day someone commented that I was very "straight acting". The tacky campy crap of pride only reinforces the notion that gay people are mincing fairies who love colourful trash. They don't represent me, and they're so prominent that everyone assumes they do.

Is 'Straight acting' something gay people should aspire to?

Were any of you the Gay Pride Parade last year? There were far more people marching in civvies, like me, than there were in colourful costume, but they did look more fabulous ;-)

voz es

rochey84 wrote: »

Its about achieving equal status, as it stands, gay people cannot get Married, or adopt children in the eyes of the state, Gay Pride is initally about that! When straight people are treated like second class citizens then maybe there will be a straight pride parade

Straight people are treated as second class citizens in many other areas of life. A man's legal right to decide the right to life of his unborn child and the likelyhood of looseing custody if a relationship breaks up.

But let them march if they want to march, democratic right and I hope they enjoy the day out.