NO NO NO Schools have to include religion classes, forum told

Paparazzo

gvn wrote: »

What a self-satisfying, self-indulgent persecution complex. I haven't encountered as many Catholics with persecution complexes in my life as I have on Boards in the past few months.

My favorite line is one Joe Duffy callers use a lot when they're being 'persecuted' is: "They wouldn't say that about Muslims"

Delirium

crucamim wrote: »

Leave us Catholics alone.

Then quit indoctrinating people in public schools.

Stop trying to steal our schools.

Stop trying to claim ownership of public schools.

Stop trying to prevent Catholic schools from teaching Catholicism.

Start teaching Catholic kids their faith on your own time, and not in a classroom.

Stop trying to infiltrate our schools.

They're also our schools, so we're not really infiltrating them.

Stop trying to bully Catholic schools in rejecting Catholic children in order to leave room for the children of non-Catholics.

No problem, quit using sectarian policies to determine who gets educated in public schools.

Stop demanding equality for non-Catholics in our schools.

Again, they're public schools. Unfortunately for you, some of us think that religion doesn't determine who gets an education.

Stop questioning the right of Catholics to refuse to allow their children to be taught by non-Catholics.

How exactly does religion impact on the teaching of maths?

Stop trying to impose financial punishments on Catholics for keeping their children safe.

Safe from who?

And, to return to the topic of the thread, people should be permitted to establish no-religion schools and should receive the same State support as do the denominational schools. Unfortunately, that will not satisfy those many posters who seem determined to undermine the right of Catholic children to be insulated from non-Catholics while at school.

Yeah because then those catholic kids might be exposed to...... different world views and begin to question things. You're right, you need to insulate those kids from people who don't share their beliefs. Everyone knows how fragile the religious mind is.:rolleyes:

Turtwig

^^The constant interchanges of the the two shades of blue hurt my eyes there.:(

Paparazzo

The only fair way of teaching kids religion is sunday school. Take it out of normal school all together. How can anyone have a problem with this? If religion is so important to parents, surely they can spare an hour on sunday to take their kids to sunday school?

liamw

crucamim

koth wrote: »

"Then quit indoctrinating people in public schools."

Catholic schools are not public schools. Nor are Protestant schools.

"Stop trying to claim ownership of public schools."

Stop trying to claim ownership of Catholic schools.

"Start teaching Catholic kids their faith on your own time, and not in a classroom."

When, where or how Catholic children are taught is no business of any non-Catholic. Anyway, doing so would not keep Catholic children safe.

"They're also our schools, so we're not really infiltrating them."

They are not your schools. Catholic schools belong to Catholics and only to Catholics.

"No problem, quit using sectarian policies to determine who gets educated in public schools."

Catholic schools have a right to follow sectarian policies. So have Protestant schools.

"Again, they're public schools. Unfortunately for you, some of us think that religion doesn't determine who gets an education.!

Again, Catholic schools are not public schools. Unfortunately for you, Catholics think that being a Catholics determines who has a right to be educated in a Catholic school.

"How exactly does religion impact on the teaching of maths?"

Not at all so long as the teaching is not done by an anti-Catholic teacher and so long as there are no anti-Catholics in the class.

Safe from who?

Anti-Catholics like yourself.

"Yeah because then those catholic kids might be exposed to...... different world views and begin to question things."

An excellent point. I could not have put it better.

"You're right, you need to insulate those kids from people who don't share their beliefs."

Very, very true. Our enemies are everywhere. They are out to get us.

crucamim

Paparazzo wrote: »

My favorite line is one Joe Duffy callers use a lot when they're being 'persecuted' is: "They wouldn't say that about Muslims"

Would you say it about Muslims?

CerebralCortex

crucamim wrote: »

Would you say it about Muslims?

Yes! Catholic == Protestant == Muslim == Hindu you get the picture.

Turtwig

crucamim wrote: »

koth wrote: »

"Then quit indoctrinating people in public schools."

Catholic schools are not public schools. Nor are Protestant schools.

koth wrote: »

"Stop trying to claim ownership of public schools."

Stop trying to claim ownership of Catholic schools.

koth wrote: »

"Start teaching Catholic kids their faith on your own time, and not in a classroom."

When, where or how Catholic children are taught is no business of any non-Catholic. Anyway, doing so would not keep Catholic children safe.

koth wrote: »

"They're also our schools, so we're not really infiltrating them."

They are not your schools. Catholic schools belong to Catholics and only to Catholics.

koth wrote: »

"No problem, quit using sectarian policies to determine who gets educated in public schools."

Catholic schools have a right to follow sectarian policies. So have Protestant schools.

koth wrote: »

"Again, they're public schools. Unfortunately for you, some of us think that religion doesn't determine who gets an education.!

Again, Catholic schools are not public schools. Unfortunately for you, Catholics think that being a Catholics determines who has a right to be educated in a Catholic school.

"How exactly does religion impact on the teaching of maths?"

Not at all so long as the teaching is not done by an anti-Catholic teacher and so long as there are no anti-Catholics in the class.

koth wrote: »

Safe from who?

Anti-Catholics like yourself.

koth wrote: »

"Yeah because then those catholic kids might be exposed to...... different world views and begin to question things."

An excellent point. I could not have put it better.

koth wrote: »

"You're right, you need to insulate those kids from people who don't share their beliefs."

Very, very true. Our enemies are everywhere. They are out to get us.

Just to save Dades some phwoarly rage!:D
P.s you completely missed the ' " ' around the "Safe from who" but I added it in for you

Dades

crucamim wrote: »

Stop trying to steal our schools...
Stop trying to infiltrate our schools...
Stop trying to impose financial punishments on Catholics for keeping their children safe...

And, to return to the topic of the thread, people should be permitted to establish no-religion schools and should receive the same State support as do the denominational schools...

Didn't the taxpayer end up paying to clean up your church's sins to the tune of almost a billion euro since 2003?

I think it's time to hand over the keys, brother.

CerebralCortex

Dades wrote: »

Didn't the taxpayer end up paying to clean up your church's sins to the tune of almost a billion euro since 2003?

I think it's time to hand over the keys, brother.

Fact!!!

Turtwig

Dades wrote: »

Didn't the taxpayer end up paying to clean up your church's sins to the tune of almost a billion euro since 2003?

Oh my! The nerve of you! After all the Catholic Church contributed towards the development of this great and beautiful country you get pandy about a little billion. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Delirium

crucamim wrote: »

Catholic schools are not public schools. Nor are Protestant schools.

So you're saying that all Catholic schools are private, fee paying schools? I'd read up a bit more about the public school system before you make ill-informed comments like that.

Stop trying to claim ownership of Catholic schools.

I'm not trying to claim ownership of anything. I'm talking about the public school system. You're the only one laying claim to the schools.

When, where or how Catholic children are taught is no business of any non-Catholic. Anyway, doing so would not keep Catholic children safe.

It is when we have people who poison their minds with sectarian bile, and especially if they use government funding to do so.

They are not your schools. Catholic schools belong to Catholics and only to Catholics.

They're public schools, they are there to educate all children. The time of the churches monopolising and directing the public education system of this country is drawing to a close. They are free to start up their own private schools if they wish to insulate themselves from the rest of society.

Catholic schools have a right to follow sectarian policies. So have Protestant schools.

No they don't, not if they're public schools they don't.

Again, Catholic schools are not public schools. Unfortunately for you, Catholics think that being a Catholics determines who has a right to be educated in a Catholic school.

Then let them start their own schools and get their grubby paws off of the public system.

Not at all so long as the teaching is not done by an anti-Catholic teacher and so long as there are no anti-Catholics in the class.

That doesn't explain how how the maths would be taught differently.

Anti-Catholics like yourself.

I'm not anti-Catholic. I'm against ignorant prejudiced people thinking they can decide who deserves an education, when all children deserve it.

An excellent point. I could not have put it better.

At last the mask slips away. Your claims of being a liberal have been proven to be a lie by your own words.

Very, very true. Our enemies are everywhere. They are out to get us.

:rolleyes:

robindch

crucamim wrote: »

Stop trying to impose financial punishments on Catholics for keeping their children safe.

In a sick way, that's gotta be the quote of the week.

cursai

This is like Korean masturbation for atheists. Keep congratulating each other. Everyone else is wrong and don't let anybody convince ye otherwise. Even the so called moderator is in on it. Ha ha ha

Paparazzo

cursai wrote: »

This is like Korean masturbation for atheists. Keep congratulating each other. Everyone else is wrong and don't let anybody convince ye otherwise. Even the so called moderator is in on it. Ha ha ha

Feel free to come up with a decent argument to support religion in schools. It's just that no one has yet.

CerebralCortex

cursai wrote: »

This is like Korean masturbation for atheists. Keep congratulating each other. Everyone else is wrong and don't let anybody convince ye otherwise. Even the so called moderator is in on it. Ha ha ha

WTF is Korean masturbation?

coffee_cake

CerebralCortex wrote: »

WTF is Korean masturbation?

I'm afraid to google that at work

unless he means a circlejerk?!

Delirium

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm afraid to google that at work

best not to, because, surprise surprise it's all links to porn.

unless he means a circlejerk?!

Thats my guess on it too.

coffee_cake

cursai wrote: »

I'm betting that there s been plenty of good arguments from people on this matter in favour of keeping religion in schools. I don't think its necessary myself.but it serves a purpose. Teaching right and wrong to children. Until a good alternative is presented its the only option.

We already presented the alternative of ethics classes.
Unless you think religion and knowing right and wrong are inextricably linked. :rolleyes:

But at least catholicism has a history behind its many good and bad religious merits.

Right, mostly bad ones.

whereas atheism just says I don't wanna listen. Like a child who throw its tips from the pram.

oh cop on

cursai

Paparazzo wrote: »

Feel free to come up with a decent argument to support religion in schools. It's just that no one has yet.

I'm betting that there s been plenty of good arguments from people on this matter in favour of keeping religion in schools. I don't think its necessary myself.but it serves a purpose. Teaching right and wrong to children. Until a good alternative is presented its the only option. Although st the same time. Different belief systems should be covered.
But like all fanatical belief systems. Atheism and its followers want their agenda in ask areas of society with no consideration for the damage it may cause.id prefer to have catholicism in schools as it has some benefits in the way of life lessons. Than a void. than to start again and fill the gap with 'another' illogical irrelevant and immature belief system such as atheism.
You may blank ask that out and just say as I expect you will' he's wrong' and insert another request for another repetition of another sound argument given against this threads title. But what would be the point. I wouldn't go into the catholic forum and ask for proof of jesus's existence there. But at least catholicism has a history behind its many good and bad religious merits. whereas atheism just says I don't wanna listen. Like a child who throw its toys from the pram.

And yes a circle jerk would be the best description. Keep giving yourselves posts on the back.

Delirium

cursai wrote: »

I'm betting that there s been plenty of good arguments from people on this matter in favour of keeping religion in schools. I don't think its necessary myself.but it serves a purpose. Teaching right and wrong to children. Until a good alternative is presented its the only option. Although st the same time. Different belief systems should be covered.

Why support it then if you don't think it's necessary.
Also plenty of posters have said education about different belief systems is fine as part of a RE class. It's religious indoctrination that is the problem.

But like all fanatical belief systems. Atheism and its followers want their agenda in ask areas of society with no consideration for the damage it may cause.id prefer to have catholicism in schools as it has some benefits in the way of life lessons. Than a void. than to start again and fill the gap with 'another' illogical irrelevant and immature belief system such as atheism.

Feel free to list what catholicism offers that can't be covered in a secular school.

You may blank ask that out and just say as I expect you will' he's wrong' and insert another request for another repetition of another sound argument given against this threads title. But what would be the point. I wouldn't go into the catholic forum and ask for proof of jesus's existence there. But at least catholicism has a history behind its many good and bad religious merits. whereas atheism just says I don't wanna listen. Like a child who throw its toys from the pram.

I've no idea what point you're trying to make, other than to get a dig at the posters in this forum.

And yes a circle jerk would be the best description. Keep giving yourselves posts on the back.

Well done on showing that you have no understanding of the secular type schools that have been suggested should be the standard school for all villages/towns.

Penn

cursai wrote: »

I'm betting that there s been plenty of good arguments from people on this matter in favour of keeping religion in schools. I don't think its necessary myself.but it serves a purpose. Teaching right and wrong to children. Until a good alternative is presented its the only option. Although st the same time. Different belief systems should be covered.
But like all fanatical belief systems. Atheism and its followers want their agenda in ask areas of society with no consideration for the damage it may cause.id prefer to have catholicism in schools as it has some benefits in the way of life lessons. Than a void. than to start again and fill the gap with 'another' illogical irrelevant and immature belief system such as atheism.
You may blank ask that out and just say as I expect you will' he's wrong' and insert another request for another repetition of another sound argument given against this threads title. But what would be the point. I wouldn't go into the catholic forum and ask for proof of jesus's existence there. But at least catholicism has a history behind its many good and bad religious merits. whereas atheism just says I don't wanna listen. Like a child who throw its toys from the pram.

And yes a circle jerk would be the best description. Keep giving yourselves posts on the back.

I fail to see why teaching Catholicism is necessary to teach right from wrong. I was taught it in school, and I turned out okay. Another guy in my class was taught the exact same things, and didn't turn out okay. I could look around my local pub on a Saturday night, look at all the druggies, vandals, drink-drivers, people who get in fights etc, and all of them would have been taught religion in Primary School. People who got the EXACT same religious education as I did, and even most who would still go to Mass regularly and consider themselves to be Catholic.

Why did the religious education they received not make them better people? Because people are products of their environments. It isn't the little bit of religious education you get in school that matters, it's your whole upbringing. Family, friends, where you live, what you like, your own attitude. I had the same religious education as them, and I consider myself to be a more ethical and moral person than them. But I can't remember one single thing I learnt in Religion class other than "Look at all the wonderful things Jesus did" or anything that made me think "That's how I should live my life".

In a secular school, I believe Ethics and Morality should be something which is taught, perhaps as part of a Religion Class which teaches about all religions etc, but I fail to see why being taught as a Catholic would make anyone more ethical or moral than others. Ethics and morals aren't restricted to those with religious beliefs. I don't believe I'm going to Hell, but I'm still not going to be a bad person.

CerebralCortex

Barrington wrote: »

...I don't believe I'm going to Hell, but I'm still not going to be a bad person.

Well it's as simple as you'd be making life very difficult for yourself by being unethical towards others.

Turtwig

cursai wrote: »

I'm betting that there s been plenty of good arguments from people on this matter in favour of keeping religion in schools. I don't think its necessary myself.but it serves a purpose. Teaching right and wrong to children. Until a good alternative is presented its the only option. Although st the same time. Different belief systems should be covered.
But like all fanatical belief systems. Atheism and its followers want their agenda in ask areas of society with no consideration for the damage it may cause.id prefer to have catholicism in schools as it has some benefits in the way of life lessons. Than a void. than to start again and fill the gap with 'another' illogical irrelevant and immature belief system such as atheism.
You may blank ask that out and just say as I expect you will' he's wrong' and insert another request for another repetition of another sound argument given against this threads title. But what would be the point. I wouldn't go into the catholic forum and ask for proof of jesus's existence there. But at least catholicism has a history behind its many good and bad religious merits. whereas atheism just says I don't wanna listen. Like a child who throw its toys from the pram.

And yes a circle jerk would be the best description. Keep giving yourselves posts on the back.

Instead of look at who thanked what and why, perhaps you could actually bother your arse and read this thread. You love to bash atheists, yet you ignorance to what posters are actually claiming on these boards is astounding. It's actually worse than the fundamentalist biblical literalist. No body wants religion as a subject removed from schools. Religion is part of the human identity what I want (and the majority sentiment is somewhat similar) is instead of saying
"Atheism is a fact."
"Catholics believe this but are wrong."
or
"Catholicism is a fact"
"Protestants believe this but are wrong."

say,
"Atheists believe...Catholics believe, Pastafarians believe, Protestants believe, Muslims believe"
"These could be facts."

Also, on the whole using Catholicism to teach kids right and wrong. So your idea is to put the fear of hell into them and they'll more likely be better kids. I'm sorry but this is akin to the ridiculous logic many parents hold on spanking. It does produce compliance, but it's not near as a efficient as other more passive methods that actually involve more positive based reinforcement.

Dades

cursai wrote: »

IDifferent belief systems should be covered.
But like all fanatical belief systems. Atheism and its followers want their agenda in ask areas of society with no consideration for the damage it may cause.id prefer to have catholicism in schools as it has some benefits in the way of life lessons. Than a void. than to start again and fill the gap with 'another' illogical irrelevant and immature belief system such as atheism.

That post just weeps insecurity.

cursai wrote: »

And yes a circle jerk would be the best description. Keep giving yourselves posts on the back.

"Non-religious in Shock Agreement on Secular Schools".

Blur or Oasis?

Penn

It's simpler than that. I simply don't do anything to anyone that I wouldn't want done to myself. I'm sure there's probably some Bible passage which equates to the same thing, but I didn't learn it in Religion class. It's just basic human decency and common sense. Oh, if only we spent more time being taught that in school rather than "Jesus once walked on water"..... What a magical place the world would be now

Delirium

Barrington wrote: »

It's simpler than that. I simply don't do anything to anyone that I wouldn't want done to myself. I'm sure there's probably some Bible passage which equates to the same thing, but I didn't learn it in Religion class.

yep. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

liamw

cursai wrote: »

I'm betting that there s been plenty of good arguments from people on this matter in favour of keeping religion in schools.

wow, you sure proved your point!

cursai

And on and on and on......