UK Bans Wild Animals in Circuses

Discodog

This is quite an amazing story because prime minister Cameron was determined that this ban would not go through - heaven knows why ? Despite all kinds of threats to his MPs they voted for the ban. It's good to see a parliament voting according to their beliefs & not on party lines.

This may well effect the Irish circuses that use wild animals in that they will be restricted to Ireland & this could prove uneconomic.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/victory-in-the-campaign-to-ban-circus-animals-2302073.html

ppink

This is brilliant news:)

argosy2006

Great, sacked elephants roaming the streets,

Wolfe Tone

Well, thats circuses ruined. Shame.

planetX

Brilliant news, an end to the freak shows!:):):)

ISDW

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Well, thats circuses ruined. Shame.

How is it? I've been to a few circuses in the UK that don't use animals, as a lot of UK councils banned circuses with animals a long time ago. They were brilliant, and any of the kids that I've ever taken had a great time.

Wolfe Tone

ISDW wrote: »

How is it? I've been to a few circuses in the UK that don't use animals, as a lot of UK councils banned circuses with animals a long time ago. They were brilliant, and any of the kids that I've ever taken had a great time.

I liked seeing the animals, lion tamers etc, would be the main attraction for me.

Asphyxia

Wow great news! I used to love seeing animals at the circus but I've seen pictures and videos about how they're treated which isn't fair

KTRIC

Great news

Clare Bear

Brilliant! I hope we won't be too far behind!

fatmammycat

Superb news!

Bottle_of_Smoke

Does a lion born in captivity and raised by humans count as a wild animal?

ISDW

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I liked seeing the animals, lion tamers etc, would be the main attraction for me.

That does surprise me, that you would like to see animals treated so badly for your entertainment. Why would you want to see such a noble animal being made to perform tricks?

Wolfe Tone

ISDW wrote: »

That does surprise me, that you would like to see animals treated so badly for your entertainment. Why would you want to see such a noble animal being made to perform tricks?

Same reason I like to see dogs preform tricks, or horses race/jump, dogs race etc etc etc..

Of course there should be standards set for how they are kept.

fatmammycat

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Does a lion born in captivity and raised by humans count as a wild animal?

Play a quick came of 'gotcha belly' with one and find out

ItsAWindUp

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Well, thats circuses ruined. Shame.

It's more of a shame they were held in captivity in the first place! This is fantastic news, hope the same happens over here.

fatmammycat

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Same reason I like to see dogs preform tricks, or horses race/jump, dogs race etc etc etc..

Of course there should be standards set for how they are kept.

Yep, for your own entertainment.

Bottle_of_Smoke

fatmammycat wrote: »

Play a quick came of 'gotcha belly' with one and find out

Some tamed lions their trainers would literally be able to do that.

I have pretty extreme views on this, I don't think lions should even be kept in zoos, so I am in favour of the bill. However I am instrigued by the "wild" part noted in the headline because I don't think a captive born lion should neccesarily be considered wild. Not domesticated certainly, but somewhere in between.

fatmammycat

I know what you mean, though I woudn't consider them tame either.
'Gotcha belly', even with a domestic cat can be fraught with danger.
* observes fresh scratches*

Wolfe Tone

fatmammycat wrote: »

Yep, for your own entertainment.

Pretty much yeah, it is entertaining.

As I said there is no reason why there can't be standards set for their cages etc.

Other animals are held in captivity and made do tricks etc, why not lions?

ItsAWindUp

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Pretty much yeah, it is entertaining.

As I said there is no reason why there can't be standards set for their cages etc.

Other animals are held in captivity and made do tricks etc, why not lions?

Because they belong in the wild. The fact that you endorse animal captivity simply for your own entertainment, that an animal deserves to have it's basic rights denied just for your amusement, is quite shocking tbh.

Wolfe Tone

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Because they belong in the wild. The fact that you endorse animal captivity simply for your own entertainment, that an animal deserves to have it's basic rights denied just for your amusement, is quite shocking tbh.

Better release my pets so, form pickets at the equestrian centre down the road which keeps animals captive for entertainment. I'll set up a petition too against the zoo while I'm at it maybe?

Shanao

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Better release my pets so, form pickets at the equestrian centre down the road which keeps animals captive for entertainment. I'll set up a petition too against the zoo while I'm at it maybe?

There is a huge difference between domesticated animals doing tricks and wild animals doing tricks, even if captive bred. Not only is it highly dangerous for the 'trainers' as you cant fully tame an animal like that because of the strong fight/flight responses they have, its extremely cruel to keep them in the conditions they are being kept in. At least in the good zoos they do what they can to keep them mentally and physically stimulated. Sure, they're in enclosures, but they're a hell of a lot bigger than a cage where they cant express any natural behaviour at all.

Do you keep a dog in a crate all day long, only to release it for an hour/two hours in the evening, make it do tricks, beat it when it does something wrong, and then repeat the procedure over and over again? You really cant compare the two.

Wolfe Tone

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Same reason I like to see dogs preform tricks, or horses race/jump, dogs race etc etc etc..

Of course there should be standards set for how they are kept.

Thats a very good point. There are alot of double standards on this forum when it comes to Animals.

Wolfe Tone

Shanao wrote: »

There is a huge difference between domesticated animals doing tricks and wild animals doing tricks, even if captive bred. Not only is it highly dangerous for the 'trainers' as you cant fully tame an animal like that because of the strong fight/flight responses they have, its extremely cruel to keep them in the conditions they are being kept in. At least in the good zoos they do what they can to keep them mentally and physically stimulated. Sure, they're in enclosures, but they're a hell of a lot bigger than a cage where they cant express any natural behaviour at all.

Do you keep a dog in a crate all day long, only to release it for an hour/two hours in the evening, make it do tricks, beat it when it does something wrong, and then repeat the procedure over and over again? You really cant compare the two.

What about a horse?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Horses are domesticated too, wouldn't have the roaming instinct of a wild animal. Plus they live in fields rather than trailers

Discodog

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

As I said there is no reason why there can't be standards set for their cages etc.

Of course there is. How can you transport an enclosure the size of one at a zoo ?. The only exercise that wild animals get in a circus is when they are in the ring. The cages are pitiful.

One Irish circus features sealions & they keep them in, what looks like, a kids pool. You need thousands of gallons & a huge filtration system - try putting that on a lorry.

Your use of the word "taming" is wrong. Big cats, elephants etc are not tamed. They are often terrified into submission. The recent video of a UK circus beating an elephant with a broom was not an isolated example.

Zoo's can be different & some do amazing work. I had the honour once of playing with some Cheetah cubs at Aspinalls - they have done a lot of good conservation work as have London Zoo. Whipsnade in the UK show how it can be done when the animals have huge enclosures.

Also Zoos allow children to see real animals & not in films or books. The good ones do brilliant educational work - what does a child learn from seeing a circus Lion ? How do you tell a child that has watched TV programs or learned in school about wild animals that it is OK to keep them in dreadful conditions & make them do tricks ?

The wild/captive argument is simple. The Act will ban the use of wild animals which means any non domesticated animal. So dogs & horses are OK provided that they are well looked after.

The good thing is that the vote, despite pressure, was overwhelming. MP's have been deluged by the public demanding a ban - if only our public were the same. I have a sneaky feeling that it will make Cameron think twice about trying to repeal the hunting ban.

yet ...

There are more attacks by domesticated animals on Humans then there are circus animals on Humans every year.

There are more abused domesticated animals then abused animals in the circus every year in the UK and Ireland.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Deleted User wrote: »

yet ...

There are more attacks by domesticated animals on Humans then there are circus animals on Humans every year.

Irrelevant.

There are more abused domesticated animals then abused animals in the circus every year in the UK and Ireland.

There are a hell of a lot more domesticated animals than circus. Virtually every wild animal in the circus is being abused by default in that their surroundings are inappropriate, whereas the vast majority of domesticated animals are treated well.

Furthermore, even if there were similar percentages of domestic animals abused, that in itself does not warrant keeping large wild animals in cages on the road.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

yet ...
There are more attacks by domesticated animals on Humans then there are circus animals on Humans every year.

Hard to attack someone when you're locked in a cage

Deleted User wrote: »

There are more abused domesticated animals then abused animals in the circus every year in the UK and Ireland.

Well that would be certain as domesticated animals outnumber circus wild animals by several million to one !.

Domestic animals may be abused whereas wild circus animals have to be abused otherwise there could be no "show" .

Edit SNAP BoS - great minds think alike !

ISDW

Discodog wrote: »

Of course there is. How can you transport an enclosure the size of one at a zoo ?. The only exercise that wild animals get in a circus is when they are in the ring. The cages are pitiful.

One Irish circus features sealions & they keep them in, what looks like, a kids pool. You need thousands of gallons & a huge filtration system - try putting that on a lorry.

Your use of the word "taming" is wrong. Big cats, elephants etc are not tamed. They are often terrified into submission. The recent video of a UK circus beating an elephant with a broom was not an isolated example.

Zoo's can be different & some do amazing work. I had the honour once of playing with some Cheetah cubs at Aspinalls - they have done a lot of good conservation work as have London Zoo. Whipsnade in the UK show how it can be done when the animals have huge enclosures.

Also Zoos allow children to see real animals & not in films or books. The good ones do brilliant educational work - what does a child learn from seeing a circus Lion ? How do you tell a child that has watched TV programs or learned in school about wild animals that it is OK to keep them in dreadful conditions & make them do tricks ?

The wild/captive argument is simple. The Act will ban the use of wild animals which means any non domesticated animal. So dogs & horses are OK provided that they are well looked after.

The good thing is that the vote, despite pressure, was overwhelming. MP's have been deluged by the public demanding a ban - if only our public were the same. I have a sneaky feeling that it will make Cameron think twice about trying to repeal the hunting ban.

Have to say, this is what I love about this story, Cameron not having everything his own way, and parliament actually listening to the people that elected it for once.