UK Bans Wild Animals in Circuses

Bottle_of_Smoke

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

There are a hell of a lot more domesticated animals than circus.

you said it .

Yet you seem to think the bigger problem is the circus.

ruben

Mark Pritchard is my new hero;)

Shanao

Deleted User wrote: »

you said it .

Yet you seem to think the bigger problem is the circus.

Wow imagine someone having a problem with the circus when this thread is about the circus. What exactly is your point? All circus animals are abused, some domesticated animals are abused, neither should be happening, so what's the point in saying you cant give out about one without giving out about the other? All animal abuse should stop, full stop.

Discodog

ISDW wrote: »

Have to say, this is what I love about this story, Cameron not having everything his own way, and parliament actually listening to the people that elected it for once.

The odd thing is why he opposed the ban ?

Shanao

Shanao wrote: »

Wow imagine someone having a problem with the circus when this thread is about the circus. What exactly is your point? All circus animals are abused, some domesticated animals are abused, neither should be happening, so what's the point in saying you cant give out about one without giving out about the other? All animal abuse should stop, full stop.

My point is , This ban will now cut out abuse on these animals.
Why not ban all domestic animals. As what was mentioned earlier there are alot more domestic animals out there then circus animals. Therefore there is alot more abuse out there.
I have said it before, if all dogs are banned , no more abused dogs no more dogs needing homes.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

Why not ban all domestic animals.

Because it would be extremist, irrational & pointless. It would also crash the economy & result in thousands of dead animals.

Your kind of argument is usually used by those who support whatever is banned. The vast majority of domestic animals are well kept. For example farm animals are well regulated. Even with dogs far more are cared for than neglected.

hdowney

Discodog wrote: »

The odd thing is why he opposed the ban ?

yes this i do not understand.

i am on the fence about banning of animals in circuses. i do agree that keeping them in tiny enclosures and forcing them to perform tricks, beating them when they don't etc is completely wrong and cruel. however i think that if circuses are to be no animal entertainment they really need to up their standards. the last circus i went to that had no animals was really quite repetitive. like the same kinds of clown acts and gymnastics over and over again. there was nothing catching and interesting about it and i left feeling it was quite a rip off of my money to be completely honest. so they need to step it up.

Discodog

Apparently Cameron fears that a ban could face a legal challenge under the EU Services Directive - others think this to be hogwash.

DEFRA conducted a study & found that 94% of the UK population wanted a ban.

doctor evil

Not sure how I would feel about such a ban, when is a wild animal born in captivity (and its parents before it) when is it considered domesticated? Is a zebra (in captivity) a wild animal even though there are folks crossing them with donkey/horses and even riding them.

It's rubbish that wild animals are always more dangerous than domesticated animals, in Ireland lifestock is the second greatest cause of death on farms.

Whats going to happen to these banned animals now?

What about the ones that are no good for breeding of endangered animals (cross bred subspecies here)

I have no problem seeing animals in circuses as long as they are properly treated. I view all use of animals as the same, use is use as long as it is done right and the animal is not an endangered species.

If animals weren't kep for personal entertainment then there would be no pets.

Discodog

doctor evil wrote: »

I have no problem seeing animals in circuses as long as they are properly treated. I view all use of animals as the same, use is use as long as it is done right and the animal is not an endangered species.

If animals weren't kep for personal entertainment then there would be no pets.

But you can't keep a wild animal properly & cart it around in a truck. The two are not compatible.

People keep pets for companionship not entertainment. We aren't all trying to get our dogs to jump through flaming hoops or daring to put fingers in our cat's mouths.

Crossing ponies with Zebra is no different to crossing dogs with Wolves - you end up with seriously messed up animals.

doctor evil

Discodog wrote: »

But you can't keep a wild animal properly & cart it around in a truck. The two are not compatible.

People keep pets for companionship not entertainment. We aren't all trying to get our dogs to jump through flaming hoops or daring to put fingers in our cat's mouths.

Crossing ponies with Zebra is no different to crossing dogs with Wolves - you end up with seriously messed up animals.

Perhaps there can be a way? animals are adaptable, if they weren't then they would never have been domesticated/taken advantage of by humans. Do circuses or individual acts not have off seasons?

Part of companionship is entertainment, if the relationship did not involve lifting of the spirits than it is not a healthy companionship. Tricks come in many different forms, as long as it is not absurd or trained badly than what is the harm.

I don't know how messed up a zedonk or a zorse can be, a bit flightier perhaps. With crossing a wolf I agree it is stupid as these animals are treated more as a pet and taken into the home where you won't be taking an equine into.

Shanao

We've never domesticated such big carnivores though. It takes thousands of years to domesticate an animal, and despite them being a prey animal, zebras were a failed attempt at domestication because they have a very strong fight instinct and can be very aggressive. There are reasons we have managed to domesticate some animals, and reasons we haven't with others. Simply put, some are adaptable but not all.

doctor evil

Aren't baby animals not still born wild with instincts intact? A lot of it is logistics, size of animal and what handling it had and when.

'Thousands of years' is that not more to do with changing the physical form of the animal and creating different breeds.

JupiterKid

Great news.:)

Circuses are outdated Victorian spectacles and should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

rasper

delighted brilliant news , its an ancient practice and animal less circuses can be the same quality and better

Bottle_of_Smoke

doctor evil wrote: »

Not sure how I would feel about such a ban, when is a wild animal born in captivity (and its parents before it) when is it considered domesticated? Is a zebra (in captivity) a wild animal even though there are folks crossing them with donkey/horses and even riding them.

I think domesticated means selective selection is used. IE allow the most naturally tame individuals breed but not the more agressive ones. This often has a physical effect too though. When they domesticated the black fox it started growing floppy ears like dogs.

It's rubbish that wild animals are always more dangerous than domesticated animals, in Ireland lifestock is the second greatest cause of death on farms.

Whats going to happen to these banned animals now?

I think thats off topic but would agree. If someone has a proper set up for a dangerous animal they should be allowed keep it.

I have no problem seeing animals in circuses as long as they are properly treated. I view all use of animals as the same, use is use as long as it is done right and the animal is not an endangered species.

If animals weren't kep for personal entertainment then there would be no pets.

Pets like cats dogs enjoy being kept as pets. If you let them loose they'll come back.

There is no way you can properly treat a lion in a circus. Maybe there are some animals that would enjoy it like dogs - that's fine with me. Keeping lions there though is them having a miserable life so we can enjoy a show. That's not on imo

I could never enjoy animals in circuses, poor things. The best one I ever went to as a child was one with no animals at all.
This is great news!

planetX

I wonder will the animals be seized (I hope so), or will the circuses be allowed to sell them on to foreign circuses?

scudzilla

ah that's balls, i used to love goin to the circus and watchin the monkeys do tricks, and the lions roar, and loved the elephants too.

This world is just getting too politically correct

hdowney

planetX wrote: »

I wonder will the animals be seized (I hope so), or will the circuses be allowed to sell them on to foreign circuses?

my worry hear though is if the animals are seized what will happen to them. (not saying that that means leave them in circuses). by nurture (or lack thereof) they are more likely to lash out than possibly even completely wild animals (smack a dog enough and it will snap, so beat a lion to make it do tricks....) so is even putting these animals into a zoo or similar controlled wildlife preserve even a possibility? also putting them in such circumstances - they will not have interacted with any other animals bar the ones that travelled in the circus with them, so this could present problems. i would be afraid that once seized, the authorities would decide the only thing they can do is put them down. i would feel awful if that had to happen

kmmh58

Thank God, I hate the Circus, poor animals being cooped up, traveling & trained in those conditions

fatmammycat

scudzilla wrote: »

ah that's balls, i used to love goin to the circus and watchin the monkeys do tricks, and the lions roar, and loved the elephants too.

This world is just getting too politically correct

Oooh PC gone mad! Just like the daily mail, feck the animals and what's best for them, what's important is what's best for the one hour every year/decade you spend in a circus, YEAH!

Discodog

hdowney wrote: »

i would be afraid that once seized, the authorities would decide the only thing they can do is put them down. i would feel awful if that had to happen

Well it would end their suffering & it prevents generations more from suffering the same fate. In reality they will probably be relocated. There are lots of specialists in the UK & they will know what to expect.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Circus lobby say that the animals will die.

scudzilla wrote: »

ah that's balls, i used to love goin to the circus and watchin the monkeys do tricks, and the lions roar, and loved the elephants too.
This world is just getting too politically correct

I know how you feel. I miss child slavery & the bull baiting was hilarious. Bring back the good old days of cruelty. Never mind you can always go to the zoo.

Discodog

ruben wrote: »

Mark Pritchard is my new hero;)

He was even offered bribes but Cameron picked on the wrong guy. A politician with principles - a very rare animal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2007942/Circus-animals-I-wont-let-Camerons-aides-bully-Tory-MP-grew-council-house.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

rasper

It should be noted that anthropologists regard the domestication of the dog as a very important step forward for our species, originally attracted to us for scraps, encouraged by us for protection, eventually used with hunting, then after domestication we moved on towards rearing animals for food, then into cultivating crops. Without the original adopting of the dog man would be the hunter gatherer for quite a while longer.
Obviously not trying to rationalize a freak show

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Your kind of argument is usually used by those who support whatever is banned. The vast majority of domestic animals are well kept. For example farm animals are well regulated. Even with dogs far more are cared for than neglected.

So what you are saying is , this problem with the abused circus animals is a much larger problem then the dog problem

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

So what you are saying is , this problem with the abused circus animals is a much larger problem then the dog problem

No of course not. The Dog & Circus "problem" will be addressed here when or if we get the promised Animal Welfare Bill. I am a little surprised that they didn't go this route in the UK but I suspect that there were loopholes that Circuses could of used. The UK already has laws to protect dogs.

An Animal Welfare Bill, we are about the only country in Europe that doesn't have one, will lay down minimum welfare standards like space, exercise etc.