Septic tank fees

5live

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hogan-sticks-with-euro300-septic-tank-fee-2804841.html

Just came across this while waiting for a shower to pass and thought you might be interested.

I heard John Boylan on the radio last night talking about it and apparently the money will be used to pay for an inspectorate to call on a number of houses in an area to make sure they comply with EU regulations on septic tanks.

Now i have a problem with this as my taxes are already paying for urban waste treatment and anyone near an outlet will readily testify as to the near absence of treatment in a lot of cases. Surely sewage emptying into these plants should also have to pay a similar fee and be subject to equal supervision?

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this?

Username John

What? :eek: :mad:

Are they proposing they charge everyone with a septic tank (Which is everyone in a rural area) €300?

Surely there is an existing organistaion tasked with inspections? What do the EPA do?

reilig

5live wrote: »

Now i have a problem with this as my taxes are already paying for urban waste treatment and anyone near an outlet will readily testify as to the near absence of treatment in a lot of cases. Surely sewage emptying into these plants should also have to pay a similar fee and be subject to equal supervision?

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this?

I would have a similar issue. Having worked on a number of treatment facilities over the last 10 years which flow directly into the River Shannon across the north west, west and south west I can confirm the absence of treatment in most cases. I have seen it with my own eyes.

In comparison to the simple septic tank, these urban waste treatment plants merely agitate the sewerage which passes through them, breaking it into smaller particles before it passes through settlement and filtration tanks which merely remove the remaining large particles rather than the toxic pollution aspects of it. Inspectors and regulators appear to be satisfied with the system's operations just as long as no large visible particles in the sewerage as it is pumped out into our "clean" waterways. Local authorities in ireland still operate on the principle that:

"The solution to pollution is dilution"

Charging to inspect septic tanks is a scam. Its a way for the government to raise money to keep "jobs for the boys". Wait until you see the people that your local authority appoints to carry out the inspection!!!

bbam

3 things on this...
The pilot for this was ran here in Cavan a few years ago... a good number of folks got them tested and most passed although ~I did hear of some being replaced at more than €5k cost :eek:

This being a "septic tank" inspection..
I hope this wording continues... We build two years ago and the Co.Council insisted a "bio cycle unit" be used.. Having no septic tank I wouldn't intend paying the charge.. Our tank cost about €5800 plus installation and about 15c a day after to run... this was after paying €3k levi to the council for "services" off which we get none from them..

What maintenance are they offering for the €300, if the sh1t backs up where do we ring?? I'd say the maintenance claim is a it of a porky

R P McMurphy

bbam wrote: »

3 things on this...
The pilot for this was ran here in Cavan a few years ago... a good number of folks got them tested and most passed although ~I did hear of some being replaced at more than €5k cost :eek:

This being a "septic tank" inspection..
I hope this wording continues... We build two years ago and the Co.Council insisted a "bio cycle unit" be used.. Having no septic tank I wouldn't intend paying the charge.. Our tank cost about €5800 plus installation and about 15c a day after to run... this was after paying €3k levi to the council for "services" off which we get none from them..

What maintenance are they offering for the €300, if the sh1t backs up where do we ring?? I'd say the maintenance claim is a it of a porky

Everyone should keep flushing sponges or other objects down the toilets and have the inspectorate on 24 hour call, make them work for the 300 euro

R P McMurphy

Also 5k? what would happen if you could not afford to invest that in a new tank

sh1tstirrer

Tax houses, septic tanks. What will they tax next our beds? I like how they blame the EU for it.

bbam

To be honest I'd rather straight forward tax, not these bitty sh1ty stuff that adds up and makes me resentful.... I for one will not be paying a charge on my own sh1tter for which I paid my own hard earned cash, blood and sweat to install myself, and clear it myself then the young las flushes too much loo paper...
It's not like they can come and shut it off :mad:

marknjb

is this 300 euro every year or a one off

Birdnuts

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Tax houses, septic tanks. What will they tax next our beds? I like how they blame the EU for it.

I suspect that will be the strategy to justify all kinds of sh&te(pardon the pun!!;) ) over the next few years of austerity budgets:( - I also suspect its a charge to keep rural CC's going - instead of reducing the number and perks of useless councillors and senior mangement!!:mad:

djmc

Should not be paid:mad:

LostCovey

Sorry to go against the general hysteria, cos hysteria is usually my thang.

However, just to balance this a little and to be constructive.

- Most houses built in the last 10 years don't have septic tanks. They have treatment units, which should stand up to inspection

- Most septic tanks don't work. They might if they were set up like they used to be, getting a mix of 'organic matter', water & wet paper tissue. However most septic tanks are fed a fairly toxic mix of the usual, plus dishwasher, washing machine, and shower runoff, full of detergents, and hugely diluting the normal throughput, so they don't work.

- Reilig's criticism of urban treatment plants above may be valid, but at least there is some aerobic digestion. Very hard to show any benefit to effluent flowing through a typical septic tank.

There's a lot of heat being generated about this, but I for one think its a good thing that human waste going into groundwater is monitored, and will be happy to pay to have this checked.

LostCovey

sh1tstirrer

LostCovey wrote: »

Sorry to go against the general hysteria, cos hysteria is usually my thang.

However, just to balance this a little and to be constructive.

- Most houses built in the last 10 years don't have septic tanks. They have treatment units, which should stand up to inspection

- Most septic tanks don't work. They might if they were set up like they used to be, getting a mix of 'organic matter', water & wet paper tissue. However most septic tanks are fed a fairly toxic mix of the usual, plus dishwasher, washing machine, and shower runoff, full of detergents, and hugely diluting the normal throughput, so they don't work.

- Reilig's criticism of urban treatment plants above may be valid, but at least there is some aerobic digestion. Very hard to show any benefit to effluent flowing through a typical septic tank.

There's a lot of heat being generated about this, but I for one think its a good thing that human waste going into groundwater is monitored, and will be happy to pay to have this checked.

LostCovey

You forgot to mention sh1t even though your post is full of it :rolleyes:

Salmon

I am starting to think it would be better if we all started to work for free, with our earnings diverted to government coffers. In return we could be offered food vouchers each week by the state which we could redeem to feed our families. All these new charges are ridiculous and are going to drive people to poverty. I'm in reasonably secure employment but if this tax gouging continues I'll be off to Canada!

Mad!!

R P McMurphy

LostCovey wrote: »

Sorry to go against the general hysteria, cos hysteria is usually my thang.

However, just to balance this a little and to be constructive.

- Most houses built in the last 10 years don't have septic tanks. They have treatment units, which should stand up to inspection

- Most septic tanks don't work. They might if they were set up like they used to be, getting a mix of 'organic matter', water & wet paper tissue. However most septic tanks are fed a fairly toxic mix of the usual, plus dishwasher, washing machine, and shower runoff, full of detergents, and hugely diluting the normal throughput, so they don't work.

- Reilig's criticism of urban treatment plants above may be valid, but at least there is some aerobic digestion. Very hard to show any benefit to effluent flowing through a typical septic tank.

There's a lot of heat being generated about this, but I for one think its a good thing that human waste going into groundwater is monitored, and will be happy to pay to have this checked.

LostCovey

Yes because that 300 euro will definitely be ringfenced and not absorbed or diverted towards something else. This is a certainty

Shirleysrumbler

LostCovey wrote: »

Sorry to go against the general hysteria, cos hysteria is usually my thang.

However, just to balance this a little and to be constructive.

- Most houses built in the last 10 years don't have septic tanks. They have treatment units, which should stand up to inspection

- Most septic tanks don't work. They might if they were set up like they used to be, getting a mix of 'organic matter', water & wet paper tissue. However most septic tanks are fed a fairly toxic mix of the usual, plus dishwasher, washing machine, and shower runoff, full of detergents, and hugely diluting the normal throughput, so they don't work.

- Reilig's criticism of urban treatment plants above may be valid, but at least there is some aerobic digestion. Very hard to show any benefit to effluent flowing through a typical septic tank.

There's a lot of heat being generated about this, but I for one think its a good thing that human waste going into groundwater is monitored, and will be happy to pay to have this checked.

LostCovey

Wonder on what basis they will have tanks shut down etc. My house is set up to minimise detergents entering tank with main detergent being a non bio detergent. Result tank has lasted 10 years without needing to be pumped.Tank is actually supplemented by disposing appropriate food products All veg matter etc through loo. In addition I witnessed a construction project at a large rural school last year where tank has been "active" for 40 years with nothing save loo paper and Crap entering system.With minimal detergent and tank has digested matter perfectly to date. A Good engineer/Architect who knows how percolation works will set out a septic in such a way that waste will digest by itself. The householder can then maintain the system armed with a little knowledge of processes involved. First step.sink waste should be put through a soak away with a grease trap. Ideally showers and washing machine should go through a separate soakaway with a huge amount of graded stone set in a free draining soil. alternatively householder shouldn't overdo the Bleach but should use mild detergents to minimise impact on digestion in tank. Also when a tank fails , the inclusion of a dead animal can sometimes set off the system(havent used it but anecdotally it was used long ago in new septics)again as long as householder aids digestion by limiting detergent etc.

I know of a few instances where puraflo systems etc have been replaced by septics because they don't work. So best of Luck Phil with your crusade!!! Rural Carlow KK voters will be none too pleased.

5live

Myunderstanding of it is the fees will be used to pay the salarys and expenses of the inspectors and the balance (not much chance of that) going to fund general council running costs. So it will rise probably every year once (if) it becomes established.

I dont see any proposals on what they will do or what power they will have to enforce any changes in the sewage system if they deem it below standard. Will it be added onto the proposed household valuation tax along with water charges?

Look i dont like it but we are still borrowing 18 billion this year to pay for wages and services and extra taxes will have to be part of the solution. But i am damned if i am paying an extra tax while urban sewage is flushed out practically pure without any charge on them.

Our taxes paid for urban broadband and we were left with crap but they cannot be expected to pay for that?

The John Bryan interview is just on the last word on today fm right now:mad:

LostCovey

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

You forgot to mention sh1t even though your post is full of it :rolleyes:

I have read your post and your username, and you appear to have a rather unhealthy obsession with crude terms for bodily waste.

I am not qualified to help you my friend, but I mean you no harm.

LostCovey

LostCovey

5live wrote: »

But i am damned if i am paying an extra tax while urban sewage is flushed out practically pure without any charge on them.

Hard to argue with this, but another way of looking at the logic of it is that urban residents should pay for sewage disposal (like they should ay for other things that we do not get in rural areas, like water, bin collections etc.

LostCovey

LostCovey

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

Wonder on what basis they will have tanks shut down etc. My house is set up to minimise detergents entering tank with main detergent being a non bio detergent. Result tank has lasted 10 years without needing to be pumped.Tank is actually supplemented by disposing appropriate food products All veg matter etc through loo. In addition I witnessed a construction project at a large rural school last year where tank has been "active" for 40 years with nothing save loo paper and Crap entering system.With minimal detergent and tank has digested matter perfectly to date. A Good engineer/Architect who knows how percolation works will set out a septic in such a way that waste will digest by itself. The householder can then maintain the system armed with a little knowledge of processes involved. First step.sink waste should be put through a soak away with a grease trap. Ideally showers and washing machine should go through a separate soakaway with a huge amount of graded stone set in a free draining soil. alternatively householder shouldn't overdo the Bleach but should use mild detergents to minimise impact on digestion in tank. Also when a tank fails , the inclusion of a dead animal can sometimes set off the system(havent used it but anecdotally it was used long ago in new septics)again as long as householder aids digestion by limiting detergent etc.

I know of a few instances where puraflo systems etc have been replaced by septics because they don't work. So best of Luck Phil with your crusade!!! Rural Carlow KK voters will be none too pleased.

All of the above is true, but very few rural septic tanks work, and they are just big dead tanks that are pumped out when they fill, and seep out untreated liquid sewage into groundwater every day.

Most of the larger urban plants work fairly well, some of the ones in small towns are as bad as the septic tanks (in how they don't work) and much worse because of the scale.

However all of this is coming from the EU, who own us now.

We're just tenants.

LC

whelan1

the council sewerage line runs through our land, along side the river , lets just say i could tell a tale or two about it..... :rolleyes: they should inspect their own sewerage operations before thay start going to inspect others

theaceofspies

Time for a sense of perspective here. This charge has NOTHING to do with Septic tanks - it is another form of taxation from the Sheriff of Nottingham. Time for the IFA to organise a septic tank drop off in a Government Department like the IFA of old (oh for the days of sheep running amok among the partitions of the civil servants at the Department of Ag.)

LostCovey

theaceofspies wrote: »

Time for a sense of perspective here. This charge has NOTHING to do with Septic tanks - it is another form of taxation from the Sheriff of Nottingham. Time for the IFA to organise a septic tank drop off in a Government Department like the IFA of old (oh for the days of sheep running amok among the partitions of the civil servants at the Department of Ag.)

The Sherriff of Nottingham I mean Brussels/Manhattan owns us now.

I agree, I would expect a high profile stunt would really help win this argument.

LC

reilig

I wouldn't mind paying the true cost of a septic tank inspection, but I just cannot see where they came up with the figure of 300 euro. Our local authority has carried out a number of inspections on our house and a number of neighbouring houses over the last 2 years. Its a 30 minute exercise. The lids are taken off to inspect the internal of the tank. The pump is checked to ensure that its working. The lid is removed from the percolation box to ensure that the water is flowing through the percolation pipes. There's nothing more to it. It certainly doesn't cost 300 euro. Any good worker could inspect 10 to 15 of them in 1 day. So it appears to me that it is just a money making exercise to raise funds for financially challenged local authorities.

Its sad to think that the public water supply that feeds most of our county is coming from the river shannon. They feed the water out at the highest poing and feed the sewerage in further down. Its the people at the water extraction points further down who get the taste of the sewerage from the town above!! At least with our septic tanks, we have a proper percolation system which allows the waste water to filter through the topsoil and become somewhat filtered before it goes into the groundwater!!

theaceofspies wrote: »

Time for a sense of perspective here. This charge has NOTHING to do with Septic tanks - it is another form of taxation from the Sheriff of Nottingham. Time for the IFA to organise a septic tank drop off in a Government Department like the IFA of old (oh for the days of sheep running amok among the partitions of the civil servants at the Department of Ag.)

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

I wouldn't mind paying the true cost of a septic tank inspection, but I just cannot see where they came up with the figure of 300 euro. Our local authority has carried out a number of inspections on our house and a number of neighbouring houses over the last 2 years. Its a 30 minute exercise. The lids are taken off to inspect the internal of the tank. The pump is checked to ensure that its working. The lid is removed from the percolation box to ensure that the water is flowing through the percolation pipes. There's nothing more to it. It certainly doesn't cost 300 euro. Any good worker could inspect 10 to 15 of them in 1 day. So it appears to me that it is just a money making exercise to raise funds for financially challenged local authorities.

Its sad to think that the public water supply that feeds most of our county is coming from the river shannon. They feed the water out at the highest poing and feed the sewerage in further down. Its the people at the water extraction points further down who get the taste of the sewerage from the town above!! At least with our septic tanks, we have a proper percolation system which allows the waste water to filter through the topsoil and become somewhat filtered before it goes into the groundwater!!

In some Scandinavian countries I believe that towns/industries can only take water from rivers at a point downstream of their outflow......makes them take a different approach to what they let out!

LC

Bizzum

LostCovey wrote: »

In some Scandinavian countries I believe that towns/industries can only take water from rivers at a point downstream of their outflow......makes them take a different approach to what they let out!

Such was the confidence of Meath Co Co in their Trim plant that this was exactly what was planned............................
Until the locals had a good long think.
The upshot was the discharge was rerouted to a point downstream of the intake, having to be piped under a river to add to their woes!

5live

Bizzum wrote: »

Such was the confidence of Meath Co Co in their Trim plant that this was exactly what was planned............................
Until the locals had a good long think.
The upshot was the discharge was rerouted to a point downstream of the intake, having to be piped under a river to add to their woes!

They say the water in London is the safest in the world. After all, its been through the human body at least 10 times:D

pmct

Does anybody else think this is just a tax and because they can't make most country people pay water tax they had to come up with something else

Tora Bora

Salmon wrote: »

I am starting to think it would be better if we all started to work for free, with our earnings diverted to government coffers. In return we could be offered food vouchers each week by the state which we could redeem to feed our families. All these new charges are ridiculous and are going to drive people to poverty. I'm in reasonably secure employment but if this tax gouging continues I'll be off to Canada!

Mad!!

So you expect Canada will welcome you with open arms, and you will have no fees, levies, charges or taxes to pay:rolleyes:

5live

pmct wrote: »

Does anybody else think this is just a tax and because they can't make most country people pay water tax they had to come up with something else

All around me have meters installed already so they are only waiting for the go-ahead to bill us. Apparently all counties are in breach of the relevant EU law except Cavan. They have inspections every 7 years, iirc, and have to show that they have carried out the relevant repairs to get passed

Fiskar

Was in wet'n wild Donegal at the weekend, looking out on the landscape at Bloody foreland is a city of bungalows below all with septic tanks, Turf stacked up outside and facing water bills as well as septic tank charges.

Can see these charges and turf cutting bans hitting rural Ireland hardest.

LostCovey

pmct wrote: »

Does anybody else think this is just a tax and because they can't make most country people pay water tax they had to come up with something else

That is a lazy argument. People without septic tanks won't pay it, so I would think it is part of the price we pay for living in a rural area.

And it will do some good.

People said the NCT was just an extra tax.

Road fatalities are down 50%.

LostCovey

Tora Bora

LostCovey wrote: »

That is a lazy argument. People without septic tanks won't pay it, so I would think it is part of the price we pay for living in a rural area.

And it will do some good.

People said the NCT was just an extra tax.

Road fatalities are down 50%.

LostCovey

You have lost it now LC. I'd safely say the contribution if NCT to road accident reduction is minimal, compared to, better safer roads we have thanks to the dearly departed tiger, the very many newer vintage cars on the roads, thanks also to tiger, more education of the issues through the media etc.
NCT is a bit player on the stage.

LostCovey

Tora Bora wrote: »

You have lost it now LC. I'd safely say the contribution if NCT to road accident reduction is minimal, compared to, better safer roads we have thanks to the dearly departed tiger, the very many newer vintage cars on the roads, thanks also to tiger, more education of the issues through the media etc.
NCT is a bit player on the stage.

Maybe you're right, I do get it wrong occasionally, but

1. I haven't seen a young fella in a dangerous banger for a long time well I haven't seen anyone in a banger).

2. I haven't heard of an accident caused by a mechanical failure in ages either.

Both used to be commonplace.

LC

Tora Bora

LostCovey wrote: »

Maybe you're right, I do get it wrong occasionally, but

1. I haven't seen a young fella in a dangerous banger for a long time well I haven't seen anyone in a banger).

2. I haven't heard of an accident caused by a mechanical failure in ages either.

Both used to be commonplace.

LC

Up to a point though, it really is a racket. Testing two year old cars, on dodgy test equipment in some test centres according to prime time. Then there is the annual test on small commercial vans. Mate had his run around 2010 van tested last week.7k miles on it. FFS. FFS. FFS.

LostCovey

Tora Bora wrote: »

Up to a point though, it really is a racket. Testing two year old cars, on dodgy test equipment in some test centres according to prime time. Then there is the annual test on small commercial vans. Mate had his run around 2010 van tested last week.7k miles on it. FFS. FFS. FFS.

Yeah fair enough, but working vans are exactly the vehicle that needed close scrutiny - that mileage is rare in a van that works for a living.

As far as the corruption goes, well any system can be corrupted. I suppose an NCT inspector inspector is the only way to police that.....

LC

Newtown Warrior

As part of this proposal, will there be any difference between the traditional septic tank and a recently installed BAF (Biological Aerated Filter) sewage treatment system?

I’m already paying €150 for an annual service charge for my system which is required as part of my current planning conditions.

reilig

Newtown Warrior wrote: »

As part of this proposal, will there be any difference between the traditional septic tank and a recently installed BAF (Biological Aerated Filter) sewage treatment system?

I’m already paying €150 for an annual service charge for my system which is required as part of my current planning conditions.

I'm paying €100 for an annual service charge which was part of my planning conditions. However, the Local authority inspected mine also. I presume that there won't be any difference.

softlad

for the upcoming levy on septic tanks, are householders going to be charged the same amount for a puraflo systems, as this would be incredible considering the cost of these so called eco measures.