It's a tough life for a man...

Dr. No

Dr Galen wrote: »

You wann try being a nurse lads. Mostly never had a problem but the odd time some eejit thinks it's a bit strange. While I was training I had thought that I might go and specialise in children's nursing too. I was told that it was possible that I might habve to have a chaperone from time to time when dealing with girls. Funnily my mate who is a doctor specialising in children's medicine never had an issue.

I work as a nurse too (Both General and children's) and I must say I have never encountered any problems either. Its encouraging to see more men entering the nursing profession.

the_syco

When I taught swimming, if we were ever doing a sweep to ensure that kids dropped off by their parents weren't just messing, we'd have to go in pairs.

Mrmoe wrote: »

Even something as walking on a footpath behind a woman alone, I would often feel compelled to cross the street so as to seem less "rapey".

Aye. I'd either "tie the shoelace" and increase the distance between us, or power-walk past her. FWIW, I'm 6 foot 6, dressed in black. Possibly scary on a poorly lit road at 4am in the morning...

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I agree. Its seen as a more female oriented career and I personally think women make better teachers

Are you a man or a woman? I ask as "old school" male teachers tend to teach males better (in subjects such as Irish, woodwork, engineering, history, etc).

Orion Creamy Gin wrote: »

I'm reading this as a 28 year old male with no kids and see guys here talking about being scout leaders and working with kids in the GAA. My first thought? Why would you put yourself in a risky situation (i.e. working closely with kids where allegations could be made). Now that's sad that that's what I thought.

I swam, I was taught how to swim, I became a qualified lifeguard, and was asked to teach swimming, and thus did it for a while. Stopped when my job started to involve Saturdays (when I'd teach swimming), and thought it'd be unfair if I only turned up the odd night (one of my past teachers did this, and it really fcuked up how we were taught.

=-=

When I left scouts nearly 10 years ago, I was planning on going back to be a leader, to "carry on the torch", once I got a steady job. Now that I have one, I'm unsure about going back to being a leader for the reasons discussed in this thread, though.

Count Duckula

In fairness, if the extent of the tough life that being a man entails is merely that you get a few odd looks if you're walking around alone then I think we can safely say that - when compared to the other gender - it ain't that tough.

iptba

Count Duckula wrote: »

In fairness, if the extent of the tough life that being a man entails is merely that you get a few odd looks if you're walking around alone then I think we can safely say that - when compared to the other gender - it ain't that tough.

Who said that was the extent? Have you read the thread? Other examples were given. I'm not sure this thread was designed to be any sort of competition - although I suppose seeing the perspective from women and what they deal with can have its place. But everything needs to be accounted for before making any comparison - your post didn't account for everything.

Feeona

My boyfriend was accused by parents of messing with their daughter. She was smart enough to imply that she was in rooms on her own with him without actually coming out and saying it. Excuse my language, but she was a complete and utter b*tch. Her parents leapt on it straight away and asked to speak to the principal. Meetings were held and it turns out that my boyfriend had followed procedure by ensuring he always had the classroom door open when speaking to any student outside of class.
There is a huge worry for men working with children that the child will always be believed over the adult. Not so. My boyfriend still has his job as a teacher, at his last parent teacher-meetings, parents were singing his praises .

I just wanted to throw in a positive story of not only a man working with children, but a man who was accused and came out the other side. Common sense does prevail, and it would be a pity if men were put off working with children because they keep hearing negative stories. These negative stories are very similar to the paedophile lurking in every corner stories that are thrown about. It must be remembered that people who are quick to make false allegations are not all there 99% of the time, and will cause hassle for anyone and everyone, not just for men working with children.

ImpossibleDuck

Not so long ago, my granda was driving about 3-4 mins away from his house and it was LASHING the rain and he stopped and asked a youngfella (about 10-12) if he wanted a lift --my granda knew his family-- and the youngfella said no. My granda returns to the house about an hour later to find the gardaí waiting for him. The wee youngfella rang the guards with the number plate. These people are neighbours. Me poor granda didn't know what the hell was going on; he was just being nice.

This is becoming a massive problem in Ireland; neighbours not knowing or trusting each other. Everyone's so damn suspicious nowadays. Makes me sick.

Jam

Oddly enough I was talking with my girlfriend on a similar thread. She does volunteer work with the mentally handicapped, and they recently had an organizational day. I asked her, out of curiousness, what the gender ratio was like, and it was predictably dominantly female at 80%~.

But as disablities don't fall at an 80/20 divide the organization are often screaming out for male volunteers. Understandably because their male users are sometimes uncomfortable with female volunteers, or might be too physically strong to pair with most female volunteers, or whatever other reasons might have you. I'm mostly hypothesizing here. They are usually screaming into an empty void.

She asked me why this is, assuming I even wanted to volunteer, the first thing I worried about was: false accusation. The possibility that I might be accused of such a thing would be enough to deter me from aiding. People always believe there is no smoke without fire. This is a terrible thing, and society as a whole suffers. Particularly the male half whom can lack any sort of male role-models growing up or beyond.

But how can this be fixed?

JohnK

Feeona wrote: »

My boyfriend was accused by parents of messing with their daughter. She was smart enough to imply that she was in rooms on her own with him without actually coming out and saying it. Excuse my language, but she was a complete and utter b*tch. Her parents leapt on it straight away and asked to speak to the principal. Meetings were held and it turns out that my boyfriend had followed procedure by ensuring he always had the classroom door open when speaking to any student outside of class.
There is a huge worry for men working with children that the child will always be believed over the adult. Not so. My boyfriend still has his job as a teacher, at his last parent teacher-meetings, parents were singing his praises .

I just wanted to throw in a positive story of not only a man working with children, but a man who was accused and came out the other side. Common sense does prevail, and it would be a pity if men were put off working with children because they keep hearing negative stories. These negative stories are very similar to the paedophile lurking in every corner stories that are thrown about. It must be remembered that people who are quick to make false allegations are not all there 99% of the time, and will cause hassle for anyone and everyone, not just for men working with children.

I dont want to be too negative and while I do hope it did all end well chances are that its not as done and dusted as you might think. Its very likely that his employment file now includes a line something like "suspected inappropriate interactions with student" and even though the principle/co-workers are 100% sure your boyfriend was in the right they'll almost certainly have to mention it if he ever goes for a job elsewhere and they are asked for a reference. And even though most of the parents might love him you can be sure there are some arseholes gossiping about how it was all just covered up, not to mention that theres almost certainly some students will start talking about how hes a dirty old man. Gossip might not sound like much but it could very well kill a career.

Feeona

JohnK wrote: »

I dont want to be too negative and while I do hope it did all end well chances are that its not as done and dusted as you might think. Its very likely that his employment file now includes a line something like "suspected inappropriate interactions with student" and even though the principle/co-workers are 100% sure your boyfriend was in the right they'll almost certainly have to mention it if he ever goes for a job elsewhere and they are asked for a reference. And even though most of the parents might love him you can be sure there are some arseholes gossiping about how it was all just covered up, not to mention that theres almost certainly some students will start talking about how hes a dirty old man. Gossip might not sound like much but it could very well kill a career.

As a teacher (same for any teacher), he has people making comments about him most days and if he were to pay heed to everything that's said about him, he'd be in a mental home by now.

As for his professional prospects, he's been asked by principals in other schools to come work for them due to the time and effort he puts into training football teams.

Finally I feel that it's way better to assume the good in people. Not everyone's a paedophile, and similarly not everyone is going to spread gossip about a man who's name is cleared. If someone does spread gossip, well most fair minded people would have the sense to treat such talk to be the poison it is.

pragmatic1

the_syco wrote: »

Are you a man or a woman? I ask as "old school" male teachers tend to teach males better (in subjects such as Irish, woodwork, engineering, history, etc).

I'm a man. How so. I had an alcoholic old school male teacher for Irish.

JohnK

Feeona wrote: »

As for his professional prospects, he's been asked by principals in other schools to come work for them due to the time and effort he puts into training football teams.

Thats good to hear! Hopefully its a sign that the runaway paranoia is starting to correct itself

Wolfe Tone

Tbh, If I had a child and I heard even the slightest rumors about a teacher he or she had, I wouldn't be comfortable having that person teach my child.

LegacyUser

Personally I don't know how to view myself as a man these days. I've spoken to women on a number of occasions and heard about how they believe most men are sex obsessed/insensitive bastards. Many men seem to live up to this stereotype while many others seem to go out of their way to prove they are not sex crazed perverts, so much so that they would barely even dare approach a woman in a bar.

On the topic though, I used to work for a security company and we were explicitly told during training that if we were ever to come across a lost child we must under no circumstances be alone with them and must get a female member of staff immediately. Is this really the norm now?

the_syco

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I'm a man. How so. I had an alcoholic old school male teacher for Irish.

You say you find women better teachers, I'm saying that the individuals who thought me were male and better than the women who thought me in the same subjects. Saying that the male teachers were better at teaching those subjects was true in my school, but it wouldn't be a universal fact, the same as not all women teachers are better than male.

pragmatic1

the_syco wrote: »

You say you find women better teachers, I'm saying that the individuals who thought me were male and better than the women who thought me in the same subjects. Saying that the male teachers were better at teaching those subjects was true in my school, but it wouldn't be a universal fact, the same as not all women teachers are better than male.

I never said ALL female teachers were better or ALL male teachers were worse.

iptba

For what it's worth (I have no idea if these were common), in the all boys school I went to, I came across the odd male teacher who could be said to be not very warm to most students; but then occasionally I got frustrated that it seemed a few female teachers would see us all as "animals"/similar and punish us all as one e.g. if they couldn't find out who was responsible for a problem, which was frustrating/seemed unfair. Probably having a mix is good - female teachers were perhaps warmer on average but then if you got a good male teacher, they could be quite/very interested in you and be like a mini-father figure. Haven't thought about it too much.

pajunior

iptba wrote: »

For what it's worth (I have no idea if these were common), in the all boys school I went to, I came across the odd male teacher who could be said to be not very warm to most students; but then occasionally I got frustrated that it seemed a few female teachers would see us all as "animals"/similar and punish us all as one e.g. if they couldn't find out who was responsible for a problem, which was frustrating/seemed unfair. Probably having a mix is good - female teachers were perhaps warmer on average but then if you got a good male teacher, they could be quite/very interested in you and be like a mini-father figure. Haven't thought about it too much.

Can't speak for primary school since I only had a male teacher for 1 year (he was very good, but really I would say I only had 1 somewhat bad teacher)

But in secondary school it was 50-50 and the male teachers were nearly all head and shoulders above most female teachers. It was an all boys school so take from that what you will, could be very different in a mixed/female school.

Male teachers were so much better at communicating especially the difficult material and were far better at controlling an over sized classroom of 30 testosterone fulled eijets. The female teachers had no patience, lost the head and starting screaming/shouting which just made everything ten times worse. There were 1/2 good female teachers but they were bucking the trend.

It's also a bit strange because before secondary school I had been though by females for 7 of the last eight years as well as being home with the mammy most of the time so you would think I would have more trouble with male teachers.

Otis Driftwood

I think that stems from the fact that the male in general was the figure of authority in most homes.I know when I was growing up and acting the maggot the line "wait til your Daddy gets home" was used more than once to get me to have manners.I reckon the balance has shifted somewhat since then though ie 25 odd years ago.

Look whos talking

It is a sad way society has gone when men feel that teaching is a women's job, I agree with the above , the amount of times our teachers were on maternity leave, the school didn't always find the right substitutes!! we need more male teachers, but society needs to change first !!

Lord TSC

As someone who trained as a teacher last year, I do have to admit that such alligations scared the hell out of me, especially since I was one of only 5 male teachers (compared to 76 female teachers) in an all-girls school of over 1000 pupils :S

We got plenty of talks from lecturers and so forth on never putting yourself into a situation where accusations could be made and also making sure if any were, you got full apologies and your name publically cleared.

But low and behold, one trouble student did actually accuse me of something at one stage; one of these "rebel" kids who kept pushing and pushing teachers, trying to wind them up. One day she didn't do her homework, as per usual, and I gave her punishment work, as was the norm in the class. Out of nowhere, she said if she was forced to do the extra work, she was going to tell the principal I made "advances" on her. Got lucky that she said it in full view of a handful of better students, and I was quick enough that I marched the girl straight to the principal's office and explained what had just happened. But I'll admit it left me shaken for a few days afterwards.

Actually, on a similar note, my father was talking to someone within the school a few months back, after I had left. They told him my biggest fault was the fact most of the girls not only loved me but were in love with me. Dad laughed at first but then was told it's actually a bad thing for a male teacher in an allgirls school since it means they are more likely to make up stories, feel rejected, etc, and can put you and the school into difficult situations

Bottle_of_Smoke

Possibly think if I do become a teacher I'll set up a cctv on myself in my classroom. Probably only way you could prove nothing happened

Malari

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Possibly think if I do become a teacher I'll set up a cctv on myself in my classroom. Probably only way you could prove nothing happened

Yes, because setting up a cctv to record a room full of small kids won't be at all suspicious! :pac:

Bottle_of_Smoke

Malari wrote: »

Yes, because setting up a cctv to record a room full of small kids won't be at all suspicious! :pac:

said on myself for a reason

mikemac

If not CCTV then a small voice recorder.
These are very small, about the size of a cigarette lighter and record for over 10 hours.

If you were on your own in a room talking to a student, door open of course, it wouldn't be a bad move to have this recording in your desk or pocket.

Cost around 70 euro, available online or from the likes of Maplins

Malari

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

said on myself for a reason

It's ok, I was just being facetious.

My momma's a teacher and I know the ridiculous lengths she has to go to to avoid a parent potentially complaining if she touches a kid. If a 7 year old boy falls in the yard sometimes all that's necessary is a bit of comforting. At the end of the school year, some of the kids want to hug her goodbye for the summer and she has to be careful. A parent once DID complain that their child was assaulted because she held a kid back by the schoolbag when he was shoving another kid in the class.

It's ludicrous and I'm sure it's a lot harder for men to deal with a crying young child in the class.

mackg

Best thread I've seen in a while.

This is a really bad situation alright. I am a 24 year old man and I have felt fairly uncomfortable at times doing things like holding my nephews hand when crossing the road etc. The same goes for walking behind a girl on a deserted street. I feel really bad for all the teachers who spend their days walking on eggshells, even worse for GAA and scout leaders who are volunteering their time to help these kids only to have the most serious accusations possible made against them.

To all of you who continue your valuable work despite all this you deserve the utmost credit and respect.