Dutch to abandon Multiculturalism.

Badgermonkey

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Anyway any talk of abandoning "Multiculturalism" in the Netherlands is nonsense. Theyvve been multicultural for hundreds of years

They're abandoning the policy, which was a relatively recent construct.

Multiculturalism
'In a political context the term has come to mean the advocacy of extending equitable status to distinct ethnic and religious groups without promoting any specific ethnic, religious, and/or cultural community values as central.'

Spread

n900guy wrote: »

With what? A country with it's own culture, or one that has spawned an unlikely bastard son of the US, UK and Australia while turning it's back almost entirely on the non-Anglophone cultural traditions of the country?

Care to ask that question in plain English?

mr_happy

Muslims have lots of kids and are far from passive, they want to dominate.

Its a matter of time beofre they run the world with an iron fist, the Dutch want to delay it happening but its inevitable.

22% of the worlds population are Muslims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

Greentopia

n900guy wrote: »

Liberal is a misinterpretation. IMHO, Dutch culture is more about fair trade, and working together for the common good. Drugs, prostution being open in the eyes of the law and on the street allows it to be included in the funcitoning of society - for good or bad, and not dragged down a backstreet causing more problems.

But liberal, laid back - no. The opposite IMO. More like agreeable, direct and focussed from a group consensus, with less individualism.

I always thought the way the Dutch deal with those issues is smart and pragmatic. No point in banning those things, that's never worked in human history so why not regularise them and integrate them into the economic and social life of the country so junkies at least get clean needles and don't have to share needles and contract diseases like HIV; and prostitutes are likewise protected from STD's/HIV and pay taxes. Win-win it seems to me.
Don't know why other countries don't follow suit.

I would describe them as more socially progressive in many areas but they are what I would call liberal on their criminal justice policies-drugs, prostitution, euthanasia etc..
The emphasis on group consensus I like too, reminds me of Scandinavia.

Greentopia

Sid Sarcastic wrote: »

Has anyone informed these Muslim chappies that there is no god? I think it high time don't you?

By all means.
After you :pac:

ascanbe

Is complying with the law, as it extends to all citizens, not enough? What, exactly, is Dutch 'culture'?

Chuck Stone

Latchy wrote: »

Overall I dont think Muslim parallel societys in western countrys are a great idea , especially when they are spewing out so much anti - western bile while living in them .

Those are Islamofascists not Muslims. You'll find much the same views in far right Christians.

doctor evil wrote: »

The Americans had it right with allegiance to their flag.

Yeah sure. That's the excuse they used to get those young men to go to Iraq to get revenge for 9/11. Wrap you lies in a flag which represents a concept that only exists in your mind and people will actually die for it.

Btw folks, in this world, it's much more dangerous to be a Muslim than it is to be a Westerner.

Yahew

ascanbe wrote: »

Is complying with the law, as it extends to all citizens, not enough? What, exactly, is Dutch 'culture'?

What exactly is any 'culture' when you put scare quotes around it. .

Nothing more ridiculous than the defenders of multi-culturalism denying the existence of culture. It seems that many cultures can exist, but no one culture can exist.

( All that can exist is a 'culture' - with it's obligatory scare quotes )

Yahew

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Those are Islamofascists not Muslims. You'll find much the same views in far right Christians.

Would you now. I doubt it, but the argument here is about Islam. If there is a mass movement of American fundamentalists to Europe you can sign me up to the petition to stop it.

Also - inconsistancies of multi-culturalism pt 245.

....

245) All cultures are the same and equally moral especially Islam which only an evil Islamophobe would dare criticise. This is universally true except for Right Wing Americans.
245.1) In fact Americans suck, not just right wingers.
245.2) Actually Western culture sucks but Islam is brilliant. What were we thinking with this equal stuff in 245) ?
245.3) Pass the weed.

....

marcsignal

Einhard wrote: »

I find it very strange that Europeans have to have so many models, and concepts, and projects surrounding immigrants and their integration. It's really quite simple. The Americans have been doing it for centuries- we'll respect your culture, as long as it doesn't clash with our laws. Isn't that pretty simple?

I agree.

if you're renting a room in my house, and I don't want you to smoke in my home, then for the purposes of good relations, you can smoke whatever you want, just dont do it in my house.

many people can create cosmic reasons why this is wrong/intolerant/unreasonable on my part, but hey, when it comes down to the wire, it's my gaf, if you don't like the rules, then fuck off.

Chuck Stone

Yahew wrote: »

Would you now. I doubt it, but the argument here is about Islam. If there is a mass movement of American fundamentalists to Europe you can sign me up to the petition to stop it.

Also - inconsistancies of multi-culturalism pt 245.

....

245) All cultures are the same and equally moral especially Islam which only an evil Islamophobe would dare criticise. This is universally true except for Right Wing Americans.
245.1) In fact Americans suck, not just right wingers.
245.2) Actually Western culture sucks but Islam is brilliant. What were we thinking with this equal stuff in 245) ?
245.3) Pass the weed.

....

So it's gone from multi-culturalism to Islamophobia...

Wait, wasn't this thread supposed to be about muti-culturalism?



Edit: Wtf are American fundamentalists?

ascanbe

Yahew wrote: »

What exactly is any 'culture' when you put scare quotes around it. .

Nothing more ridiculous than the defenders of multi-culturalism denying the existence of culture. It seems that many cultures can exist, but no one culture can exist.

( All that can exist is a 'culture' - with it's obligatory scare quotes )

I put what you call 'scare-quotes', whatever that means, around the word as i feel that its meaning, in this context, is nebulous at best.
How about this: pick any 'culture' you wish to and explain exactly what that 'culture' means/entails and how it would be possible or desirable for people to live within that 'culture' without breaching the set 'rules', whatever they are, of that 'culture' or offending the self-proclaimed arbiters, whoever they are, of that 'culture'.
I look forward to your answer.

old_aussie

[QUOTE=Chuck Stone;72966305

Edit: Wtf are American fundamentalists?[/QUOTE]

They're American mentalists who like to have fun.

pragmatic1

mr_happy wrote: »

Muslims have lots of kids and are far from passive, they want to dominate.

Its a matter of time beofre they run the world with an iron fist, the Dutch want to delay it happening but its inevitable.

22% of the worlds population are Muslims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

Meh. 78% arent. There was a time when this was a very conservative catholic country but times change.

DonQuay1

marcsignal wrote: »

I agree.

if you're renting a room in my house, and I don't want you to smoke in my home, then for the purposes of good relations, you can smoke whatever you want, just dont do it in my house.

many people can create cosmic reasons why this is wrong/intolerant/unreasonable on my part, but hey, when it comes down to the wire, it's my gaf, if you don't like the rules, then fuck off.

I don't smoke - can I live in your gaff?

But I agree .... rules already established by those who are there first are the rules that should have precedence. It wrong/intolerant/unreasonable of a minority to presume that the majority should live by the minorities rules.
The newer culture should give way to the older culture if there's a clash. You want to carry a knife because it's your 'manhood' culture or marry your thirteen year old cousin now that you've turned 55 years old or 18?
If the predominant laws and culture of the land says 'NO' .... then that should be the end of it. NO!!

philologos

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Those are Islamofascists not Muslims. You'll find much the same views in far right Christians.

What do you mean by saying "far right Christians"?

Indeed, what views are you talking about that are "anti-Western"?

cournioni

Yesh.

murpho999

Mary28 wrote: »

They are laid back and friendly. They might be super direct and lack our humour but they do have a very open outlook. Light years away from the average Irish person.

There is a difference between being laid back and having an open outlook!

Laid back to me means relaxed!

I don't know why the Dutch have such a positive reputation abroad as 'cool and relaxed', just because you can smoke a joint in a coffee shop, which most Dutch people don't bother with.

Lived there for 7 years, and found the people, when you get to know them are no more laid back than anyone else and there is definitely a growing right wing anti-foreigner (foreign=turkish/arabic) movement growing there that would quickly destroy any 'laid back' images.

Geert Wilders, who is now telling the government what to do is a dangerous character!

Father Damo

mr_happy wrote: »

they run the world with an iron fist, the Dutch

Customs seized my DVDs

wolfpawnat

I'd hardly call the Dutch "laid back". Though their laws on drug usage and prostitution are lax, they, as a whole, are an extremely conservative society. This is no surprise really.

Though I have to say, all these countries that invaded half the world and rammed their religious and sociological beliefs down other peoples throats shouldn't be too píssed off when others merely practise their beliefs in the invaders home countries!!!!

marcsignal

DonQuay1 wrote: »

I don't smoke - can I live in your gaff?

But I agree .... rules already established by those who are there first are the rules that should have precedence. It wrong/intolerant/unreasonable of a minority to presume that the majority should live by the minorities rules.
The newer culture should give way to the older culture if there's a clash. You want to carry a knife because it's your 'manhood' culture or marry your thirteen year old cousin now that you've turned 55 years old or 18?
If the predominant laws and culture of the land says 'NO' .... then that should be the end of it. NO!!

+1

You see, I don't want to come across as 'anti-foreigner' or even anti-muslim or whatever. I love nothing more than meeting with/mixing with foreigners, and people of different cultures. I believe, in many respects, the influx of foreigners has been good for Ireland. It's dragged us kicking and screaming into the 21st century in a lot of cases.

Some cultures i prefer more than others, don't get me wrong. I'll put my hands up and say straight out, that I have little time for the Roma here, because imo, they contribute fcuk all, and always want something more.

On the other hand, the recently highlighted murder of the Polish man made me deeply ashamed to be Irish, and reinforced my revulsion for that little section of Irish society, who live their lives shirking their social responsibilities, and blaming everyone else, because they have made a balls of their own shitty lives, and express that through violence, and total disregard for the wishes of the majority, who just want to get on with their lives, and bother no one.

I'm wary of the 'squeaky wheel' in whatever culture it is found.

murpho999

marcsignal wrote: »

+1

You see, I don't want to come across as 'anti-foreigner' or even anti-muslim or whatever. I love nothing more than meeting with/mixing with foreigners, and people of different cultures. I believe, in many respects, the influx of foreigners has been good for Ireland. It's dragged us kicking and screaming into the 21st century in a lot of cases.

Some cultures i prefer more than others, don't get me wrong. I'll put my hands up and say straight out, that I have little time for the Roma here, because imo, they contribute fcuk all, and always want something more.

On the other hand, the recently highlighted murder of the Polish man made me deeply ashamed to be Irish, and reinforced my revulsion for that little section of Irish society, who live their lives shirking their social responsibilities, and blaming everyone else, because they have made a balls of their own shitty lives, and express that through violence, and total disregard for the wishes of the majority, who just want to get on with their lives, and bother no one.

I'm wary of the 'squeaky wheel' in whatever culture it is found.

It's all because it's human beings and their faults that is the problem not where they are from or what their culture is.