primary school assessments

nonienance

I am wondering does anyone know what a sten of 9&10 realy means. I have 4 children and two have had stens of 9 or 10. Now in 1st year i wonder what i should expect of him in say leaving cert. Do these kids do realy well. Are these the kids who get the 600 points. Do lots of kids get these type of stens. I hear they are the top 2% i dont see evidence of this with mine.

Spear

Moved from N&F.

byhookorbycrook

STEN 10 is the highest you can get. it suggests high ability in that area, but does not automatically mean high points in the leaving, it would take good teaching ahd hard work to get that.
Also a child may be highly able in maths or literacy or both.Children to whom stuff has come easily in primary may struggle in secondary as for the first time ever, they actually have to work to master something and could give up. This is why it is critical that highly able /exceptionally able/high potential students are challenged in primary.

nonienance

Do you feel these kids should be taken from class in primary school to help them achieve potential.

E.T.

In an ideal world they'd get extra tuition, in the same way as weaker students do, but with the recent 10% cutbacks in Resource hours, the hours for Learning Support of any kind are also being cut.

Learning Support hours are given on a priority basis starting with the weakest results for English, then when all of these children are fitted in, if there are any left over, support will be given for Maths. After all of this, theoretically, gifted children would be catered for, but it's very, very rare that any school even fits in all of the children that need help with Maths.

With many very bright children, their true ability doesn't show until they're a bit older. Even children who come into school well able to read and cope with number work are generally still at a 4 or 5 year old level in a lot of ways, and it takes some time for their different abilities to level off and enable them to really show what they're capable of.

nonienance

What i suppose i am realy wondering is do the kids with above average stens tend to follow through to the end of secondary.if you looked back at the stens of the kids doing very well in leaving cert,are they the same kids with the high stens or can an average child do as well with very hard work.

E.T.

I don't think you can use the sten scores as black/white (can't think of a better phrase right now) as that - I remember people in my class in school who would have seemed at a good average level but really worked hard and got very high points. Conversely, there's often the obviously well above average person who does enough to get by but doesn't do amazingly well.

It depends on what the person is aiming for too - someone with a sten score of ten mightn't have any interest in a high points course for the Leaving Cert and mightn't put in the extra work to get 600 points. Personality and interest are major factors in exam results.

ShamoBuc

I would say that can be little relationship between sten scores and leaving cert points total. It comes down to hard work/effort aswell as ability levels. Stens show ability levels based at primary age with relation to English and Maths whereas the leaving is a whole different ball game, 6 or 7 years later based on a wide variety of subjects. Effort and application can reap huge rewards for students in the leaving. Having said that, the capability that a very high sten score gives, is certainly an advantage but not a guarantee.

byhookorbycrook

By taken from class ,do you mean granted learning support?We take high ability groups for learning support in our school, as measured by standardised literacy and maths scores,we provide some in-class support through peer tutoring in maths and literacy ,as well as shared reading and maths.

We also take children who have been accepted for CTYI or who have a psycho-educational assessment putting them in the exceptionally able range. The high ability withdrawal groups can only take place after we have offered support to all children on sten 3 or below in literacy and maths. The EA groups are therefore more vunerable to cuts than those groups on sten 3 or lower.

The DES does not fund any help for children with high ability, unless they qualify for resource due to another reason ,say dyspraxia,ADHD, Aspergers
The DES no longer porvides resource hours for children with dyslexia.

nonienance

At what stage would it or should it be advised to parents to have a child further assessed for eg CTYI.my younget child is only first class.

byhookorbycrook

As early as possible would be my ans. We have some senior infants who have just sat the CTYI assessment(and have been accepted.)Have you had a look at giftedkids.ie Great forum there plus loads of info on the site.

dambarude

If the Leaving Cert is the same as it is now when your children come to it, hard work will go farther than anything else in most subjects.

Remember that results of attainment or IQ tests only tell so much. Intelligence and success aren't necessarily equatable, but a natural aptitude will help a lot if your kids are reasonably diligent.

All that said, I've seen how forcing children/teenagers to do academic work can be pretty stressful for the children/teenagers in question. It's very hard to get an 18 year old to study for exams if he/she doesn't want to. Intrinsic motivation to succeed is arguably more valuable than high aptitude scores. Many grind schools get round this by forcing their students to do supervised study and being pretty strict if they're wasting their own time.

thesimpsons

2 of mine have often gotten 9 and 10 stens but thats a picture taken on any one day in an exam situ. One however didn't ever get more than 8 but he gets very nervous once he realises theres a test on whereas the others are much more laid back kids. Remember too that there is alot of growning up once kids reach secondary and that will have a big factor into how much they want to study and what time they will devote to accadmics. The school, friends, personal motivation, parental involvement and a whole host of other things will go towards how the student will perform in the LC. The kids I've seen do best in LC are the ones who worked extrememly hard the whole way through secondary. There weren't the ones who you'd have said from day one that they were extrememly bright and intelligent. There are very few people in the world with that extremely high intelligence that means they don't have to study or that they find the LC `easy'.

one of mine kids just finished the LC. Has consistently worked since 1st year but we can't see 600 points coming unless something very strange happens to the marking schemes and the results. Something I found very interesting too this year was that some of the friends who knew what courses they wanted more or less worked towards the points for them rather than actually working to their very best ability. What I mean is, a child who knew they needed about 450 points worked to that level rather than working towards the 550 that he might have been capable of. You never can tell the mind of an 18yr old !!

nonienance

Thanks for all the feed back. Should the teacher tell me if further assessment is required or should kids with sten of 10 have CTYI assessment.no teacher ever said the child was gifted or any better than average. When is it said the child is gifted. My first child never had any CTYI assessment either.

byhookorbycrook

No teacher will tell you a child is "gifted", there is no agreement even internationally on what the definition of giftedness is .We use the term expcetionally able,but it's impossible for a school to call who is EA and who is "just" really good.

That's why we suggest to parents of chidlren we think might be EA that they sit the CTYI assessment-it costs €45 approx and gives an objective view of where the child is (usually, nervous testers, children who may have dyslexia etc or just having an "off-day" may not perform to ability.)