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Afraid to break our Lease- Need advice
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27-06-2011 10:16am#1Hi. Basically we moved into our house 8 months ago. we signed a years lease. our lease is up for renewal in october. its an old cottage . and after a hellish winter freezing in it and walls turning black with damp. we decided we definitely could not stay on for this coming winter. we were incredibly silly to take on the house but it was freshly painted and fire going when we viewed it and we didnt realise it would become a damp ridden ice box. also we have a 2 year old child to consider. her room is small and we have electric heaters going in it all the time so it is damp free at least for her. Our own room is awful, the bottom of our matress is wet from the damp. the landlords are nice enough people but they let the house through an agency.
so a house has cropped up in our ideal location. its a thoroughly modernised 3 bed cottage and really lovely. all mod cons. houses like this in the area we are in are hard to come by (we are very rural). also its a bargain at 100 euro per week rent. we would like to take it but we are extremely nervous the letting agent will make us pay the rent untill the end of october (when years lease is up). we know we will forfeit our deoposit and are fine with that. but if we give 1 months notice say from today, can the agency say we have to pay up until october? Do they really take people to court?0
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no they can't, when you give one month notice you can move out and if there was no damage you get your deposit back, if not you can take them to court.
PS. I explained bit more in other topic0 -
no they can't, when you give one month notice you can move out and if there was no damage you get your deposit back, if not you can take them to court.
PS. I explained bit more in other topic
Thanx fresh but the following is written up on the letting agents website. Is this usually enforced?
Step 5 - Rental agreement
So that there is no confusion for either party, a rental agreement is drawn up and signed by each party, detailing property address, monthly rent amount, deposit paid, date that rent is due, names of occupants etc. Most rental agreements are for a period of 12 months. If you leave earlier than the agreed end date you may be liable to pay the rent until the end of the tenancy.
An inventory of the contents and condition of the property will also be drawn up and agreed to by both landlord and tenant0 -
well, I would not be woried what agency writes on their website but more about the documents you have signed. Read through those. I am at work right now so I cannot give you exact wording but I might do that later if you are still interested. Anyway in your situation with your child I would not be affraid to go to court if they try to enforce some step they come up with themselfs.
I am in Ireland for 6 years and I have been in court few times and many times just mentioning court got me what I need as I have found out that people here lie a lot to intimidate Customers. Agency like that can say it is a law and put it on their website but look at this reasonably. They cannot force you to stay in one place for a period of time as long as year, of course there are some law requirements needed to not harm people, like one month notice.
In your case I would not wait and endanger health of my child and I would just moved out after one month notice, I would not pay them for rest of the month even if they would send you treatening letters and would ask for deposit (would take pictures of the place just in case before leaving) if I would not get deposit back I would go to small claim court, would sue them for deposit and expenses of you getting off work and travel to court.0 -
Fresh, I don't know where you're getting your ideas from, but signing a fixed-term lease makes you liable for the total rent until the fixed term expires. Technically yes, the landlord could go after the OP for the remaining rent. Whether they would or not is another matter. But unfortunately the tenant cannot just give a month's notice when they feel like it.
However, the situation regarding the damp as described sounds like the dwelling is not fit for habitation, and the OP might be able to get out of the lease using this fact. Contact Threshold for more advice, but even a signed fixed-term lease is no defence against a house that cannot be lived in.0 -
Thanx Ofla. This sounds more correct. Thing is we are willing to forgoe our deposit and give one months notice. but we didnt want to make a huge fuss and complain about the damp as the landlord and his wife are not bad people and i wouldnt like to cause any bad feeling. they are old and we feel responsible for being so stupid as to take the house in the first place. i guess all we can do is hope the letting agent dont advise the landlord to keep us bound to pay the remainder...Fresh, I don't know where you're getting your ideas from, but signing a fixed-term lease makes you liable for the total rent until the fixed term expires. Technically yes, the landlord could go after the OP for the remaining rent. Whether they would or not is another matter. But unfortunately the tenant cannot just give a month's notice when they feel like it.
However, the situation regarding the damp as described sounds like the dwelling is not fit for habitation, and the OP might be able to get out of the lease using this fact. Contact Threshold for more advice, but even a signed fixed-term lease is no defence against a house that cannot be lived in.0 -
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All about Eve wrote: »Thanx Ofla. This sounds more correct. Thing is we are willing to forgoe our deposit and give one months notice. but we didnt want to make a huge fuss and complain about the damp as the landlord and his wife are not bad people and i wouldnt like to cause any bad feeling. they are old and we feel responsible for being so stupid as to take the house in the first place. i guess all we can do is hope the letting agent dont advise the landlord to keep us bound to pay the remainder...
Damn, the human element! Always complicating things.
The landlord & wife may not be "bad people", but it's amazing how people's attitudes can undergo a sudden and dramatic change when a dispute over money arises.
I would imagine that the *first* thing the agent would do would be to advise the landlord that you are bound for the remainder! As Fresh suggests though, it sounds like your best bet would be just to talk directly with the landlord, in particular, invoking children's health as a factor. You can keep the damp problem up your sleeve as a trump card if all else fails.0 -
Fresh, I don't know where you're getting your ideas from, but signing a fixed-term lease makes you liable for the total rent until the fixed term expires...
Hi oflahero, I say again there are many things that happen in life and it cannot be that you have to live somwhere because you have signed one year lease, and if you will leave you have to pay for whole period. That is why there is something like a break clause which is usually after 6 months of contract which says that both sides can break the contract with one month notice. And All about Eve situation is special because of the child health and place being damp...0 -
Normally, you can break the lease but you will lose the deposit.
While you say the property owners are decent people, holding a tenant to a lease where the property is unfit for habitation in the winter months is not a decent thing to do.
They should have that property properly insulated in this day and age.
If I were you, I would put your own and your children's health before anything else. If you have to fall out with the landlord, so be it.
I would ring up and explain the situation and say that it was unbearably cold and that there are serious dampness problems and that you will either need to have the entire place renovated or move out before winter.
At the end of the day, you are basically purchasing a service (i.e. accommodation) from a business person. A damp, cold house is no different from a supermarket selling you moldy bread. You shouldn't really be putting up with it.
There are loads of good properties to let on the market at the moment, I would suggest you shop around.
Newer build will tend to have better insulation levels and be cheaper to heat.0 -
no they can't, when you give one month notice you can move out and if there was no damage you get your deposit back, if not you can take them to court.
PS. I explained bit more in other topic
your wrong fresh, read point 6 taken from threadhold website
http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=2390 -
Hi oflahero, I say again there are many things that happen in life and it cannot be that you have to live somwhere because you have signed one year lease, and if you will leave you have to pay for whole period. That is why there is something like a break clause which is usually after 6 months of contract which says that both sides can break the contract with one month notice. And All about Eve situation is special because of the child health and place being damp...
Thats quite incorrect. If it were correct, then why would anyone go to the trouble and expense of preparing and signing a lease in the first instance. I don't think you should give what is technically legal advice when you clearly do not know the law.
The situation is that the OP could be held liable for the remainder of the period until october. Perhaps the LL might let them go, if they mention the difficulties with damp and the childs health. However, they are under no obligation to do so.0 -
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shadowcomplex wrote: »your wrong fresh, read point 6 taken from threadhold website
http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=239
in this case seems you are right but only if there is no break clause, well mine has a break clause. And I think it is very rare not to have it...0 -
Thats quite incorrect. If it were correct, then why would anyone go to the trouble and expense of preparing and signing a lease in the first instance. I don't think you should give what is technically legal advice when you clearly do not know the law.
The situation is that the OP could be held liable for the remainder of the period until october. Perhaps the LL might let them go, if they mention the difficulties with damp and the childs health. However, they are under no obligation to do so.
OK I don't want to turn this topic to flame, and one big argue. To answer your question, people are going for the trouble and expenses of signing lease so it is not broken by both sides for trivial reasons.
Maybe it is just me that fights for his rights, this reminds me a problem I had with sattelite dish which I was told to take off and I was threten that it will be taken off by Management company or cables will be cut off. Same like here, all my Irish friends were telling me I was wrong and it was a legal requirement and Management Company where in the right sending me all those legal documents. At the end I went to court and I have won.
@All about Eve I wish you all the best and I hope you can come into agreement with your landlord followed by finding nice house for you and your child.
@rest of the gang, no I am not legal person but it does not mean I cannot help on forums. Judging by your replys I am in the wrong and you all are right.0 -
Well if it were me, I would simply call the landlord and explain politely that you have no option but to leave on the grounds that the building is unfit for habitation and is damp and causing your child health problems and provide 30 days notice.
If he/she is not cooperative, I would then suggest that you have to seek legal advice and look to have the contract terminated or the landlord sued for damages for failure to maintain the property to a reasonable standard.
I would give him/her the option of walking away from the lease, or going legal.
There's no point in messing about and you cannot put your child's health at risk for the sake of being polite to someone who is essentially ripping you off by providing substandard rental accommodation.
If there's black mold and your bed is wet as you say, then the property is totally substandard. If the landlord took it to court, they probably wouldn't get very far.0 -
Thanx to everybody who replied.
Bit more info! we are here 8 months and we never complained about the mould so to suddenly complain will shock the landlady. I guess I wish we didnt have to tell her why we are going. Shes old and probably used to living in old cottages and ran the heating all day long and fires. I dont have time as im at work. Also i cant afford to run the oil heating for hours on end.
I wash the black damp walls and keep it at bay as best I can with heating and humidifers. You wouldnt know on the face of it cos i have the walls sparkling, but say I stopped washing the walls. within 2 weeks we would have the mould back. Its very tiring esp as i work fulltime and have a 2 year old. But as I said foolishly we never moaned. I am on good terms with the landlady and her husband. had them over for drinks and have bought each other gifts at christmas and things like that. I dont want to hurt them. I know i sound stupid.
I guess we just know we have to leave that the house is bad for our health. and thats our intention so we will prob ring them tonight. If they ask for the remainder of the rent we are going to say No. Just hate confrontation.
My daughters bedroom is damp free and nicest room in the house, and our living space is damp free.
the bad damp is on our master room and the main bathroom. all my own clothes have been destroyed by the damp. it seems to live in wardrobes too! as i said winter was horrendous. summer now is ok.
we pay 500 euro per month, the house is in Co Clare.
The new house is brand spanking new and done to a high standard and is 400 per month.
Again thank you all- I will post back how we get on0 -
@rest of the gang, no I am not legal person but it does not mean I cannot help on forums. Judging by your replys I am in the wrong and you all are right.
You are not allowed give out legal advice on Boards, it's stated pretty clearly in the forum chater. The tone of your posts sound very much like legal advice with nothing to back them up other then your own comments. Good for you that you went to court and won however that does not mean the same will happen here, there are fare too many details missing to make that assumption. Most LL just won't bother if a tenants mentions court as it's easier to write off the debt and get the property rented out again then waste the time. Other people have provided links to back up their comments so either link to the correct legislation or perhaps tone down the authoritative posts.
OP if you have issues with damp it can be grounds to break the lease however you have to report it to the LL/agent and give them a chance to fix the issue before you can break the lease, I know you don't want to because the LL's are nice but the reality is there are minimum standards for housing for a reason and if you don't report them we're just going to have some else posting a few months from now after moving into the same property. It would be hard to transfer the lease to someone else if the damp is bad as you say. Your best course of action is to start talking with both Threshold, your local authority [it is their job to make sure properties met the minimum standards] and the LL/agent ASAP.0 -
Yes i would hate to think of anyone else moving in to it. But I cant see them letting it to anyone else either except for maybe a group of young people. I think the letting agent was delighted when they got us. We skipped around thinking wow this is a country dream. so quaint and charming. well i have had the biggest lesson of my life in regards to houses !
Its really only the kind of house that is suitable as a holiday let in summer months.
It has charm dont get me wrong and a garden to die for , and its sad cos if they only did it up it would be wonderful.
I do think maybe if the letting agent get smart with us, I might say to them well you let us a damp house and according to threshold.ie thats illegal. Hope that scares them enough to leave us alone for the remainder of the rent.0 -
All about Eve wrote: »Thanx to everybody who replied.
Bit more info! we are here 8 months and we never complained about the mould so to suddenly complain will shock the landlady. I guess I wish we didnt have to tell her why we are going. Shes old and probably used to living in old cottages and ran the heating all day long and fires. I dont have time as im at work. Also i cant afford to run the oil heating for hours on end.
I wash the black damp walls and keep it at bay as best I can with heating and humidifers. You wouldnt know on the face of it cos i have the walls sparkling, but say I stopped washing the walls. within 2 weeks we would have the mould back. Its very tiring esp as i work fulltime and have a 2 year old. But as I said foolishly we never moaned. I am on good terms with the landlady and her husband. had them over for drinks and have bought each other gifts at christmas and things like that. I dont want to hurt them. I know i sound stupid.
I guess we just know we have to leave that the house is bad for our health. and thats our intention so we will prob ring them tonight. If they ask for the remainder of the rent we are going to say No. Just hate confrontation.
My daughters bedroom is damp free and nicest room in the house, and our living space is damp free.
the bad damp is on our master room and the main bathroom. all my own clothes have been destroyed by the damp. it seems to live in wardrobes too! as i said winter was horrendous. summer now is ok.
we pay 500 euro per month, the house is in Co Clare.
The new house is brand spanking new and done to a high standard and is 400 per month.
Again thank you all- I will post back how we get on
I just had a quick read of your thread. I was looking into this recently myself. You are liable for the whole year, but if the landlord is in breech of his/her obligations (and it sounds like they are), you need to point this out and give them a reasonable amount of time to fix it (like a couple of weeks). If they don't fix it, then you can break the lease without penalty.
Having said all that, if they are reasonable people (not all landlords are monsters) then it might just be a case of explaining your situation and seeing if they will allow you to break your lease. But put everything in writing and keep a copy. If you discuss it on the phone, write to them with a summary of what was agreed.
Good luck!0 -
All about Eve - just be aware, a lease is a legally binding contract/document and a landlord would be well within their rights to sue you for completion of the contract i.e. pay the rent until October. Common sense should prevail though so hopefully if you mention the issues to your landlord you get a common sense reply and your issues are taken seriously.0
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Go for blood. Get the landlady to fix the mould problem. Bug her every few days to get it fixed, citing the importance of the childs health. After a few weeks, the landladys resistance to you moving out may go away ^.^0
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OJ Simpson won in court too, that doesn't mean stabbing your wife is legal.Maybe it is just me that fights for his rights, this reminds me a problem I had with sattelite dish which I was told to take off and I was threten that it will be taken off by Management company or cables will be cut off. Same like here, all my Irish friends were telling me I was wrong and it was a legal requirement and Management Company where in the right sending me all those legal documents. At the end I went to court and I have won.
In other words, the bare fact that you won your case means nothing; it's the precise circumstances and the legal arguments that might establish a precedent.0 -
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I'm no expert but if I were in your situation having signed a lease only 8 months ago I would be looking for the BER certification that would have be legally required (I believe so) to rent out the property.
If you were to go down this avenue with concerns about your child's health due to the poor conditions it might make a letting agency / LL less inclined to legally push their side (assuming you didn't get any BER stuff that might have indicated the property being quite poor).
If the agency start being evasive over the BER then it might give you the wriggle room to hand in your notice and be 'let of the hook'0 -
Basically, from what you are describing, the house is unfit for habitation / leasing and needs serious work done to bring its insulation levels up and to eliminate the black mold problem.
Black mold is toxic and can cause really serious issues for some people.
You basically need to present your landlord with an ultimatum if they are not prepared to be nice about it.
1) The accept 30 days notice and let you move out and return the deposit.
2) You go the legal route to have the lease disolved.
In my experience, most landlords will just hold onto the deposit if a tenant leaves early as there's very little point in going down the legal route as it's potentially very expensive and in your case, you would probably have grounds for breeching the contract so the landlord would end up picking up the costs for both parties' legal bills.
While it's not impossible, it's unlikely that your landlord would be bothered suing you for specific performance of the contract when there's only a few months left to run and it could cost them a fortune.
I would suggest that you have a frank and honest discussion with the landlord and say that you have no option but to move out due to the dampness and that your child's health is at risk.
Most people are quite reasonable about this sort of thing.0
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