Flowrider in Tramore

tbayers

BlankAs, I am not against travelers. I am against ones that turn up on private property and take over said property. And shops nearby have experienced multiple robberies by this "socio economic group". Heck one of the shops owners had to march into one of their "wagons" and get the stock back!!

Another thing, the circus is at least 20m high, why haven't we heard outrage from the residents in the gap about this?? And surely the seafront view from the donaraille is seriously hampered because of this!?

take a walk trough the space and regard nature.

I can't, its so full of dog **** its not possible to go in there and come back out without begin destroyed!!

this project is unsustainable. the power it will require will be huge and energy prices are rising and oil is disappearing, will the company be able to cover all of these costs? should they be using renewables? there will be a water charge soon, we are an IMF country, have they factored this into it? 20/30 long term or seasonal jobs?

Are you serious!? How do you know that it is unsustainable. Just because you say so is it? If you looked into the plans in detail and contacted the developers, you might be surprised to know that this will be very sustainable. First off their will be 3 retail units and a bar/cafe. Each one of these units are fixed into a 10 year lease. They have firm interest in all units as of now so thats guaranteed income for at least 10 years. This really makes the blood boil, people like you who haven't looked into the development and writing it off straight way

What do you think they have done, decided to build the complex and not planning on making money?? :rolleyes:

You also seem to forgot totally about the skatepark. It may be called the Flowhouse but the developers envisage that the majority of their income will come from the skatepark. The events that it is going to attract will bring millions to the local economy!

20/30 long term or seasonal jobs

10 long term jobs for the Flowrider. 5 more part time jobs at least. Now what about the skatepark. Looking at another least 5 jobs there. Now factor in the bar, just look at the Vic, they must employ at least 5-10 people longterm. And I haven't even taken into account the retail units. Worse case scenario they will employ at least 8 people. Now tot all the long term jobs up and you are potentially looking at least 30 full time jobs for the Tramore community. Nearly all of the vacancies could possible be filled by locals too.

What is your other alternative on the jobs front in Tramore. It would take years for a number of companies together to create this number of jobs!!

100 years ago it was natural land

So?? This is 100 years later, do you expect to see the field there in another 100 years?? This is the 21st century!! A lot of the objections are saying it doesn't fit with 18th 19th century architecture. Bloody hell if everyone went on like that we be still living in the dark ages!!

At the end of the day, people are entitled to make objections to any form of planning and rightly so. The country is over developed and in a mess because of poor planning and decisions by councils - shopping centers lying idle, sites bought for building half built or derelict etc.

Sully this is different though. This is a development that has its business plan built around recessionary times and firmly believe that its more than financially viable. Imagine how well it will do when we come out of it!

BlankAs, I have a few questions that I would like you to answer:

• Would you prefer if Tramore's youth left the town, therefore, making it an even darkier gloomier place than it is? This development will keep the youth in Tramore as they will have the oppurtunity to do something with themselves.
• Jobs wise, this will create a massive amount of jobs, unrivaled by anything else in the town. What is your alternative?
• So you would prefer to have an overgrown field instead of a asthecticaly pleasing building? If you look at the plans (have you??) you will see that a large amount of plants, trees etc will be placed all around the building! This will fit in perfectly with the proposed new park adjacent to the site.
• Why haven't people objected to the placement of both the circus and the roller coaster that surely does more harm to the "view" from the town! I have already mentioned the people in the gap, they are 4ft higher than the field in question so the pavillion buidings block just as much of the beach as this will!
• Finally, are you old or young? As the negative vibes around this are coming from the older generation that just don't get it! And the truth is this is for the younger generation for the years ahead, not the older generation who won't be around to see it flourish!!

Sully

tbayers wrote: »

BlankAs, I am not against travelers. I am against ones that turn up on private property and take over said property. And shops nearby have experienced multiple robberies by this "socio economic group". Heck one of the shops owners had to march into one of their "wagons" and get the stock back!!

Fairly sure they pay to get access to the field. From what I was told, its a nice payment for the use.

Another thing, the circus is at least 20m high, why haven't we heard outrage from the residents in the gap about this?? And surely the seafront view from the donaraille is seriously hampered because of this!?

Its a temporary structure. This is permanent. That's why they are complaining now I would imagine. Wouldn't have thought it would have effected their view that much though, and I am not sure how much weight "view" has in planning decisions? Its a common objection reason across Ireland funnily enough. Is a sea view a right or a privilege?

Are you serious!? How do you know that it is unsustainable. Just because you say so is it? If you looked into the plans in detail and contacted the developers, you might be surprised to know that this will be very sustainable. First off their will be 3 retail units and a bar/cafe. Each one of these units are fixed into a 10 year lease. They have firm interest in all units as of now so thats guaranteed income for at least 10 years. This really makes the blood boil, people like you who haven't looked into the development and writing it off straight way

I assume he is just concerned that because its a well known fact how hard it is to get units filled and if you look at the Pavilion its struggled a bit. A lot of developers say their is interest - look at the development in Ferrybank. Nobody in there. Its an eyesore now. Riverstown Business Park is another example - half empty. Its not going to be easy and business in Tramore is slow outside the summer months so I cant see it being a roaring success with huge numbers. A boost no doubt though and a badly needed boost at that.

Was there actually a pub application? Doesn't seem like an area you would have a pub considering its dead at night there and Tramore has loads of pubs? Then again, we have two new pubs opening in Tramore this summer and a nightclub.

10 long term jobs for the Flowrider. 5 more part time jobs at least. Now what about the skatepark. Looking at another least 5 jobs there. Now factor in the bar, just look at the Vic, they must employ at least 5-10 people longterm. And I haven't even taken into account the retail units. Worse case scenario they will employ at least 8 people. Now tot all the long term jobs up and you are potentially looking at least 30 full time jobs for the Tramore community. Nearly all of the vacancies could possible be filled by locals too.

That's just speculation and I would imagine an exaggeration. Everyone announces developments sighting jobs as being the biggest success for the area. It rarely transpires into the figures mentioned pre-planning. But, as I always say, any job announcement no matter how small is welcome and it will provide additional jobs for local kids/teenagers during the summer months especially.

So?? This is 100 years later, do you expect to see the field there in another 100 years?? This is the 21st century!! A lot of the objections are saying it doesn't fit with 18th 19th century architecture. Bloody hell if everyone went on like that we be still living in the dark ages!!

This, I agree with in principal. There are far to many developments around the country that stand out and look a right state because they don't suit the architecture around them. There are planning laws and regulations covering this directly, and for a very good reason. I think one of the objectors suggested just using limestone? Not sure how one would address it but I assume those in construction could do easily enough.

Sully this is different though. This is a development that has its business plan built around recessionary times and firmly believe that its more than financially viable. Imagine how well it will do when we come out of it!

It doesn't matter the times we are in or the benefits attached. People are still entitled to their view and its not as if their voice will be the deciding factor. Its taken into consideration. If an bord pleanala disagree, they would award the planning.

In general, again, I welcome any development that improves Tramore and brings jobs. This wont be the savior of Tramore and it wont bring in massive jobs. I also think its going to be a seasonal based business after a few years as I don't think its going to pull in enough to keep it going all year around. But there is very little to do in Tramore for families so this can only improve things a little further and be an additional attraction for families.

tbayers

I assume he is just concerned that because its a well known fact how hard it is to get units filled and if you look at the Pavilion its struggled a bit. A lot of developers say their is interest - look at the development in Ferrybank. Nobody in there. Its an eyesore now. Riverstown Business Park is another example - half empty. Its not going to be easy and business in Tramore is slow outside the summer months so I cant see it being a roaring success with huge numbers. A boost no doubt though and a badly needed boost at that.

Was there actually a pub application? Doesn't seem like an area you would have a pub considering its dead at night there and Tramore has loads of pubs? Then again, we have two new pubs opening in Tramore this summer and a nightclub.

All the above mentioned have one thing in common, they were all built in good economic times and nobody saw the downtown coming down the line, Therefore the money simple ran out. This however has a business plan that is financially viable going off a 40% running capacity. Again I went and looked for this info and got it.

That's just speculation and I would imagine an exaggeration. Everyone announces developments sighting jobs as being the biggest success for the area. It rarely transpires into the figures mentioned pre-planning. But, as I always say, any job announcement no matter how small is welcome and it will provide additional jobs for local kids/teenagers during the summer months especially

Its not speculation, its fact! It will create at least 10 jobs for the Flowrider at least because it is not physically possible to run it with less people. Again I did my homework, you can only call it speculation if you don't know the facts.

This, I agree with in principal. There are far to many developments around the country that stand out and look a right state because they don't suit the architecture around them. There are planning laws and regulations covering this directly, and for a very good reason. I think one of the objectors suggested just using limestone? Not sure how one would address it but I assume those in construction could do easily enough.

Hopefully this will be the only issue and the developers can fix it. i just hope it aint pushed back because of size



Anyhow, I hope people that feel strongly about this will submit positive planning submissions too, they are needed. It will boost Tramore, no hiding from that!!

Sully

tbayers wrote: »

All the above mentioned have one thing in common, they were all built in good economic times and nobody saw the downtown coming down the line, Therefore the money simple ran out. This however has a business plan that is financially viable going off a 40% running capacity. Again I went and looked for this info and got it.

Both the developments I mentioned are fully completed and ready for use. Nobody is moving in. The Pavillion seems to be just about holding its own, with a good bit of change over and its only four units. You can not guarantee anybody into anything.

Its not speculation, its fact! It will create at least 10 jobs for the Flowrider at least because it is not physically possible to run it with less people. Again I did my homework, you can only call it speculation if you don't know the facts.

How can you be 100% sure as to how many jobs will be created? Is there some law forcing the owners to have 10 people there at all times? I'm not being a pain in the back side here but there are two sides to the argument being fronted by the OP, and I can see both yours and his. You wont listen to his. I see where he is coming from, he raises valid complaints as do some of the objectors. You are very passionate, perhaps somewhat involved(?) or a connection of some sort, about the development and wont listen to any negative comments no matter how valid they are.

This has the opportunity to be a nice addition to tourism. But we need to be certain its not overly developed. That its not going to lie there half empty. That its not going to be excessive in size or nature. Tramore is a beautiful town and we should keep it that way, without risking it just in the off chance we get a few jobs and a few extra tourists here. That is why we have a planning system, and that is why people are entitled to their views and that will help Tramore. I have no doubt the council will approve this, maybe with some minor conditions, but I would be surprised if it didn't go onto an bord pleanala as such developments typically do. Let them decide if its right for Tramore - they are the experts. They will be able to force the developers into a development that fits in Tramore nicely and will be a win win for everyone.

tbayers

I think it will be a success, going on what they have said it will drag plenty of people to Tramore. And to be honest I would believe some one who is investing €4.5 million over your average man on your street because the developers arent going to build this and make a loss. With this much investment they obviously see something! And this will create jobs, guaranteed, what do you think is going to happen, it will open and only 5-6 jobs will be created??

As I have mentioned in my previous posts there are three retail units, two adventure sports facilities and a cafe/restaurant/bar with every one ready to be filled (there are extremely firm offers on the table if it gets go ahead). So this has to create at least 20 jobs, its just common sense.


And I do see the problem that people are seeing with the size of the thing. But what do ye think it will do, create an eyesore?? Have you even looked at the plans yet?? it will be wonderfully built, and in my opinion a fabulous piece of architecture. Just look at the plans and you will see for yourself. Surely its better than a field? And from what I have heard (very reliable sources) the residents in the gap were dead set against any development going ahead in the field, not just this one. They want to have the view of the see for the remainder of their lives!! So it is fair for them to block the growth of Tramore for a few petty reasons??

And I also take on board one of the objectors views, it is the most detailed one submitted. He/She has some very good points and makes some very sensible recommendations. For example excavate some of the site to make it a few metres lower, build it with limestone to keep it in line with the public toilets for example, just to name a few.

The other objectors are dead set against it no matter what. Two even quote the height as 14m and 40ft, no where near the actually size!

And I hope it all comes together, as I am sure the majority of Tramore does. But the fact that some people are dead set against it no matter what riles me.



And I am in no way associated to this at all. I just feel very strongly on the matter. I have gone out of my way to get the details behind it all, no harm in that! And yes I do take on board the criticism of others, but BlankAs really seems out of the picture!

Sully

tbayers wrote: »

I think it will be a success, going on what they have said it will drag plenty of people to Tramore. And to be honest I would believe some one who is investing €4.5 million over your average man on your street because the developers arent going to build this and make a loss. With this much investment they obviously see something! And this will create jobs, guaranteed, what do you think is going to happen, it will open and only 5-6 jobs will be created??

Did you expect any developer to say anything else other than that?! Again, the same was said for the Ferrybank Shopping Center. Nobody took it up in the end despite firm offers. Now, fair enough it was bad timing but its been on the market since and there have been drives in the past year or so to get people into it. Its failed. Did the developers build that for a loss? Do builders develop anything to make a loss?! They invest millions in the *hope* it will be a success based on their research. Does it always be a success? No. The same was said for the development in the City Center, the one which saw a load of buildings being bought out and now derelict because the builders pulled out despite having firm offers on the table.

There is a risk involved in this now and in the future. So its a valid point to raise such concerns. The problem here is, if we take this viewpoint through life we wont get anywhere. I'm not sure Tramore will ever be a market for such a development, but I could be wrong and I hope I am. The developers feel it will and have done in the past, hence they are looking at different ideas. It could benefit Tramore if it worked out. Is it a risk worth taking? What if business isn't good enough and in 10 or so years they pack it in? Or the units are not renewed or close up early? That's the point of others. Your point is give it a go and hope the developers commitments are solid and wont falter at the last minute. Which is right? Christ its hard to know.

As I have mentioned in my previous posts there are three retail units, two adventure sports facilities and a cafe/restaurant/bar with every one ready to be filled (there are extremely firm offers on the table if it gets go ahead). So this has to create at least 20 jobs, its just common sense.

Possibly, but I wouldn't be going beyond 20 based on looking at similar businesses. Cafe's rarely have more than 3 people employed. Restaurants and pubs around the same. But what does it matter? Jobs are jobs. If its 10, 20 or 50 - anything is good if it helps keep people employed in jobs and provides a boost to the local economy.

And I do see the problem that people are seeing with the size of the thing. But what do ye think it will do, create an eyesore?? Have you even looked at the plans yet?? it will be wonderfully built, and in my opinion a fabulous piece of architecture. Just look at the plans and you will see for yourself. Surely its better than a field? And from what I have heard (very reliable sources) the residents in the gap were dead set against any development going ahead in the field, not just this one. They want to have the view of the see for the remainder of their lives!! So it is fair for them to block the growth of Tramore for a few petty reasons??

Its not going to be easy for locals to get used to any development down there, as its been that way for a lot of peoples life (if not all, in cases). From the plans I thought it wasn't so bad in size and style, but its those living around or behind it that feel it will be negative for them. They are used to having the site empty with a straight view. This will block that for them, at least partly, and for the gap may block light. I'm not sure how much weight that can carry in planning but I perfectly see their point and feel its valid. Not petty by any means.

The hard part is - does it give them a right to block all developments? Because I cant see any development working here that wont block views or block light. The site has potential to provide an extra tourism boost, if the right project comes along and can help the image of Tramore further. Also, I think the view issue should only be considered by those behind the development and not from the top of the town - I fail to see how its large enough to have that much of an impact on them.

And I also take on board one of the objectors views, it is the most detailed one submitted. He/She has some very good points and makes some very sensible recommendations. For example excavate some of the site to make it a few metres lower, build it with limestone to keep it in line with the public toilets for example, just to name a few.

That's an example of a building that looks nothing like its surrounds and seems very out of place. It looks almost like a church. Nicely designed no doubt, but just seemed out of place. Especially for public toilets!

The other objectors are dead set against it no matter what. Two even quote the height as 14m and 40ft, no where near the actually size!

And I hope it all comes together, as I am sure the majority of Tramore does. But the fact that some people are dead set against it no matter what riles me.

And I am in no way associated to this at all. I just feel very strongly on the matter. I have gone out of my way to get the details behind it all, no harm in that! And yes I do take on board the criticism of others, but BlankAs really seems out of the picture!

What do we care? If they are wrong, it will be disregarded. The planning regulators deal with facts. If they feel its over developed, needs to be limestone or needs to be built lower - so be it. They are the experienced people in charge of ensuring that our towns and cities are not overdeveloped, developed correctly and within laws and so on. Not that they did a good job of that in years gone by anyway!

Plus you do have a connection if you have "reliable sources" feeding you information which are you filling us all in on. BlankAs raises very valid points to be fair to him, which need to be considered and discussed. That's what we are doing. Nobody here decides.

looksee

For example excavate some of the site to make it a few metres lower, build it with limestone to keep it in line with the public toilets for example, just to name a few.

Lol! If they do that they will not need any power, there will be a free 'flowrider' of seawater every high tide

tbayers

Its ok, these people know what they are talking about. If the people from the gap did not object only 1 maybe 2 objections would have been made. Such a pity!! There will be a significant positive submission submitted tomorrow, might just help!

Sully

tbayers wrote: »

Its ok, these people know what they are talking about. If the people from the gap did not object only 1 maybe 2 objections would have been made. Such a pity!! There will be a significant positive submission submitted tomorrow, might just help!

I doubt people decided to object purely because the people from the gap did, to be fair. A lot of developments in Tramore get a string of objections and I suspect (I didn't check, but your sources may confirm) that those objecting to this objected to a development on this site in the past.

Hopefully something positive will come to Tramore that is right and pleases the majority of those effected/concerned plus without major planning difficulties.

wellboytoo

Quite a few objectionable people from Tramore

looksee

I used to have a view forever across the Comeraghs. Then a wall was slapped across the bottom of my garden and houses built. That's the way it is, you do not have rights to a view.

If Tramore is ever to progress in the sense of having more facilities (those facilities that blankas has been looking for in other threads) then something is going to be built in that area. Its a seaside town, the sea-front gets developed, Tramore has just taken longer than many places.

We need to attract visitors, in this case a building is needed, go for it, that's what towns are for. If they were proposing to build along the coast I would object, if they were proposing to put up a cement block shed, an objection would be in order. This is a reasonable building in an appropriate place, I don't see the problem.

blankAs

tbayers:
i fail to see how this will save tramores youth, it may create some jobs but firstly whos to say they will be from tramore and secondly whos to say they will be young, what if they employ some 40yos? my alternitive, change your life view, you are wealthy with what you have right now.
a asthecticaly pleasing building, to you perhaps. this is a lump of stone in the middle of a field, a scar on the land, plants and trees wont hide this fact.
im young, in the 24-30 age bracket. racist and ageist then are ya.

in not just economic terms is this unsustainable,, sustainability takes other factors into account. environmentally and socially this is unsustainable. you seem quite delighted bout the retail units, fill up the existing empty retail units in the town first before ya go building more and as for the restaurant, theres plenty in this town that are having problems getting people in and making ends meet, to add another restaurant would be the death bell for some existing restaurants.
BlankAs really seems out of the picture: what picture is this, your unrealistic picture of the world? sit back and take a real look at the the whole world, in sustainablilty terms and whats realy going on, at this town and whats realy going on and then ask yourself is this going to help/;fix anything, will it just be a tempory plaster or is its just a no goer.
let me just say this project will never happen

at the end of the day i feel this discussion is just like a snapshot of this town, a forever disagreeing place that will never work together, but im glad its happening,it can do nothing but help. it is for that reason i began a new thread that didnt focus on this issue but on the town as a whole, this discussion should be expanded. the issues of the town should be discussed and in a public fourm. trying to get tramore people to participate i.e meetings, surveys is like banging your head off a wall, so using a resource like this can do nothing but help.

tbayers

I doubt people decided to object purely because the people from the gap did, to be fair. A lot of developments in Tramore get a string of objections and I suspect (I didn't check, but your sources may confirm) that those objecting to this objected to a development on this site in the past.

Sully, i was just trying to point out that if the residents from the gap didn't object than there would only have been two objections from the other areas of Tramore (so far).

Hopefully something positive will come to Tramore that is right and pleases the majority of those effected/concerned plus without major planning difficulties.

Again to Sully, if this doesn't please the people of Tramore what will? A retirement home perhaps?? And by the way there is a very small percentage, perhaps less that 1-2%, of the people of Tramore that is against this. I know this because I just spent the day going around Tramore and we didn't get one negative comment from anyone, just negative ones against the objections that were made! Take away the guys from the Gap who don't want their view ruined and I believe that that number would fall greatly!! So why should these people ruin it for everyone else because that is what they are doing!!

Another small point, the council wants this to go ahead. Isn't this a democratic republic?? If they think this is the best for Tramore town they how can we argue with them if the people of Tramore voted them in. Isn't that why we voted them in in the first place?? Isn't that how the society in Ireland works??

tbayers

BlankAs, you get the privilege of a separate post.

bayers:
i fail to see how this will save tramores youth, it may create some jobs but firstly whos to say they will be from tramore and secondly whos to say they will be young, what if they employ some 40yos? my alternitive, change your life view, you are wealthy with what you have right now.
a asthecticaly pleasing building, to you perhaps. this is a lump of stone in the middle of a field, a scar on the land, plants and trees wont hide this fact.
im young, in the 24-30 age bracket. racist and ageist then are ya.

Explain to me how it will not benefit Tramores youth?? Every Tom, Dick and Harry has a scooter, bmx or skatepark floating about on the streets of Tramore at the moment, take a quick walk around Tramore and you will see! This development will give every one of those kids a chance to bring this past time indoors when the weather goes down the swanny in the Winter.

It will also give them hope when the the big sports stars will come to Tramore to showcase their talents in the facilities for competitions, demonstrations etc They will take a look at them and even if it encourages 1 kid to follow his dreams then it is worth it!!

A scar on the land, are you having a laugh?? What is there at the moment is a bloody scar on the land, again this is the view of practically every one in Tramore, just ask!

in not just economic terms is this unsustainable,, sustainability takes other factors into account. environmentally and socially this is unsustainable. you seem quite delighted bout the retail units, fill up the existing empty retail units in the town first before ya go building more and as for the restaurant, theres plenty in this town that are having problems getting people in and making ends meet, to add another restaurant would be the death bell for some existing restaurants.

Enviromentally what will it do, create tones of greenhouse gas emissions? Prevent further weeds from growing in the field?? I would like to know how this isn't enviroentally unsustainable.

You cant fill up the existing empty retail units in the town because they are in a bad location. This will be on prime land with a massive footfall. Take a look down there today and count the people that pass the site, I would hedge my bets that its at least 10 times bigger than the empty ones up the town, same for the Riverstown Park area!!

The same applies for the restaurants!! The majority of them want this to go ahead because it will mean nothing but better business for them. Heck we got most of them to sign a petition to say so! More people in Tramore = more people to feed! Not all of them will eat in the newly built one!

at the end of the day i feel this discussion is just like a snapshot of this town, a forever disagreeing place that will never work together, but im glad its happening,it can do nothing but help. it is for that reason i began a new thread that didnt focus on this issue but on the town as a whole, this discussion should be expanded. the issues of the town should be discussed and in a public fourm. trying to get tramore people to participate i.e meetings, surveys is like banging your head off a wall, so using a resource like this can do nothing but help.

You basically summed up every town in Ireland there. There is not one town in Ireland thats perfect.

Sully mentioned that I take nothing on board but your points don't make much sense at all.

Il say it again, if this doesnt go ahead then what else would you like to see in Tramore. This will have numerous benefits, jobs, money into local economy etc.

By the way, my name is Kevin Doyle and if you had any respect, like you say you do for the town of Tramore you would stop hiding behind such an anonymous name like BlankAs!! It seems like you have alternative motives, maybe your family owns a business that think might suffer from it being built?

I have no connection what so ever with this but i feel strongly about it and want my kids to grow up and have something to look forward to doing when they get older!! This won't physically do any harm to any one. The people in gap might not be able to see the sea anymore but take a 100m walk and they can see it in all its glory!!

JohnMarston

We cannot build things that will benefit Tramore in the future, but we can build bronze trees beside an algae filled lake!

Sully

JohnMarston wrote: »

We cannot build things that will benefit Tramore in the future, but we can build bronze trees beside an algae filled lake!

Nobody had a choice in that, just a fantastic idea by the council.

blankAs

think youll find there was public consultation on this one. the choice of 5 or 6 held in the library some years ago and apparently thats the one the people picked.

Sully

blankAs wrote: »

think youll find there was public consultation on this one. the choice of 5 or 6 held in the library some years ago and apparently thats the one the people picked.

Really?! I thought we had absolutely no say and it was picked by the councilors under some fund dedicated to art. Remember there was a bit of negative soundings around when it went up.

JohnMarston

Sully wrote: »

Really?! I thought we had absolutely no say and it was picked by the councilors under some fund dedicated to art. Remember there was a bit of negative soundings around when it went up.

Rumblings i heard about it generally boiled down to: 'Were in a recession and theyre spending money on this, etc'

looksee

blankAs wrote: »

tbayers:
at the end of the day i feel this discussion is just like a snapshot of this town, a forever disagreeing place that will never work together, but im glad its happening,it can do nothing but help. it is for that reason i began a new thread that didnt focus on this issue but on the town as a whole, this discussion should be expanded. the issues of the town should be discussed and in a public fourm. trying to get tramore people to participate i.e meetings, surveys is like banging your head off a wall, so using a resource like this can do nothing but help.

How many (literate, logical) surveys have you attempted blankAs? You do not seem to realise that the reason people can't be bothered engaging with you is because you are not seeking opinions, you are just trying to promote your agenda- whatever that is, possibly just a moan-fest. How about you try again with a positive approach and some actual ideas instead of just complaining about other people's attempts to 'do something'.

Twoelles

Is there any update on this?

Mugser

Planning permission granted:)

http://eplan.waterfordcoco.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?File_number=12122&LASiteID=0

Psychedelic

I think it was pretty much expected that Waterford Co. Council would give planning permission, but I guess the objectors can now appeal that decision to An Bord Pleanala so it is ultimately up to the latter if it actually gets full planning permission. Still, this is welcome news though.

Sully

I still fear this wont bring in the mass crowds people expect from reading this thread. Tramore has and I think will always be a town that operates three months of the year only. The flowrider, assuming it goes to An Bord Pleanala and is passed (the council generally accept all of these developments with An Bord Pleanala often saying No), will add to the many activities families can do while discovering Tramore but I don't think its going to be the biggest selling point and activity that will boost Tramore beyond belief.

Very much welcome, but lets not to get too excited!

RobitTV

Sully wrote: »

I still fear this wont bring in the mass crowds people expect from reading this thread. Tramore has and I think will always be a town that operates three months of the year only. The flowrider, assuming it goes to An Bord Pleanala and is passed (the council generally accept all of these developments with An Bord Pleanala often saying No), will add to the many activities families can do while discovering Tramore but I don't think its going to be the biggest selling point and activity that will boost Tramore beyond belief.

Very much welcome, but lets not to get too excited!

I totally agree that Tramore is really a town that becomes alive in those summer 3 months of the year. Tramore is generally quiet most of the months to be honest.

Anything new is always good and I'm happy this has been granted permission, but as you said I wouldn't get to excited.

I fear also that this may not bring in crowds and people may use it at first but then things will die down.

I still stand by my point that Tramore is under developed and Tramore has suffered from lack of development during the boom years and it's currently facing the consequences. There should of been a Cinema and a Dungarvan size shopping centre a good few years ago and also the fact that tramore is abit more populated then dungarvan.

Tramore is a great place but I'm sad to see the plans to improve the place have been squashed. But I'm happy to see the Flowrider get the go ahead.

Sully

Tramore is under-funded because there is no political backbone to get it sorted. Maybe if we had a government TD here it might help. Dungarvan seems to get everything with Tramore left in the stone ages. Roads, parks, footpaths, etc.

Not sure we would really need a big shopping center or considerable development as we have plenty of smaller shops and then the main retail "giants". I find these centers a bit dingy and bad for other retailers, leaving empty units around the town as people re-locate or close up due to increased competition. Probably a reason why it doesn't happen is Tramore isn't that busy outside of the summer and never will be.

Those that provide indoor all year around activities for kids are already struggling, big time in the winter. I hope Flowrider, assuming it gets the full go ahead, wont kill it or worse result in a large over developed site that doesn't survive.

babel12

After reading a number of posts on this subject, I can see tempers are high, to say the least. The overiding feeling of "how dare somebody object" is the very reason this country is in the position its in. People have objected... so what!! This is not a hospice or a charity that is about to be built... this is a "for profit" enterprise and should stand up to scrutiny. If people have concerns... they have every right to object.

There seems to be this bullyboy tactic being carried out at present to demonize these people, and that is just wrong.

The project itself is admirable and at its very best a dream. It certainly is not viable. Pubs all over the town closing. Unemployment at 18.4% (between 25-35 yr old males its 40%)... who do you think will be spending money here??

Good idea..... wrong time and place.....

thereyouare

babel12


I agree the objection/appeal process is there for a reason , and it gives people an outlet to voice concerns in general when those concerns are real , however at a time when Tramore/Waterford in particular is struggling for new Tourism, new jobs & in general a New Direction.. it is a joke that a group of people can cause such a huge delay on this Project and by the promoters to create real jobs in the areas we need them , in the case of this project and your comments

'The project itself is admirable and at its very best a dream. It certainly is not viable. Pubs all over the town closing. Unemployment at 18.4% (between 25-35 yr old males its 40%)... who do you think will be spending money here??'

How can you be sure the project is not Viable & at very best a dream ?
'Pubs all over the Town are closing' Yes ... this shows more than ever how Tramore needs a new Direction .
Who Do You think will be spending Money here ?

Its attitudes like that will shows you have no confidence in Tramore ...Tramore has huge Potential & the People that realize that wont stop in the endevours to make Tramore the place that the Majority know it can be ... If you want to think its beaten then go ahead .. That mind set should serve you well sir !

in the real world no body spends money on planning permission without r&d and a concrete amount at that , So the comments that say this project is not viable is off the wall.

An Bp have the appeal at present and a decision is due shortly in the coming weeks... that will will tell all ... I sincerely hope for the Town it gets the go ahead, this project is without a doubt the best thing that has nearly happened to Tramore in recent times .

Sully

Plenty of developments in this country have been built and nobody came to it.

Psychedelic

Update: http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/241174.htm

241174: The Promenade, Tramore, Co. Waterford. (12/122)
Waterford County Council

Sports, leisure and retail facility, associated car parking, road network and associated site works (former Hydro Site).

Case reference: PL24 .241174

Case type: Planning Appeal

Status: Case is due to be decided by 17-04-2013

Parties

Flowhouse Ireland Ltd. (Applicant)
Donnacha and Deirdre O'Maidín (Appellant) (Active)
Donnacha and Deirdre O'Maidín and Others (Appellant) (Active)
Failte Ireland (Invited S.131) (Active)
Donncha and Deirdre O'Maidín and Others (Appellant) (Active)
History

09/10/2012: Lodged