Electronic and Computer engineering OR Computer science and IT ?

BmxNoob

Hi I'm entering my CAO choices which have to be in by this Friday. Im unsure whether I'll choose " Electronic and Computer engineering OR Computer science and IT " .

Can I get any advice on the two courses and what the differences are between them ?

Thanks

ethernet

ECE has a considerable overlap with the CS & IT course.

ECE focuses, in a nutshell, on hardware and software. I'm sure someone who's studying/studied it here can give you a lot more info.

CS & IT focuses pretty much exclusively on software, touching off other areas like project management.

Both are in the School of Engineering and Informatics, have a mandatory 5-month placement in third year.

Ultimately, it comes down to which you'd prefer. It seems pretty common for people from ECE to come to change course and finished with a degree in CS & IT.

TheCosmicFrog

Ethernet summarised it well. ECE focuses on hardware and software, covering both analog and digital hardware techniques.

CS&IT covers much more software-based criteria, such as software engineering and applications of IT in the industry, e.g. medicine, energy and digital media/video games sectors. There is a focus on hardware in CS&IT, but more from a theory perspective, as opposed to hands-on. The theory side is crucially important for understanding how a computing system operates. There is some FPGA circuit design in 1st year and also some microprocessor programming done in 2nd year, but it wouldn't be as in-depth as the ECE guys. We also work with database systems, Human Computer Interaction and artificial intelligence in CS&IT.

The courses have a lot of overlap. What it'll come down to is whether you prefer primarily hardware (incl. analog) and electronics-based systems [Elec and Comp Eng], or software development, video game development and fundamental computer theory [Comp Sci and IT]. Bare in mind the hours for ECE are significantly higher than in CS&IT, but this is mostly in 1st Year.

If you have any questions about the CS&IT course, please send me a private message

also - POST #1000. Time to go punch a horse in celebration.

I did ECE and finished last year, so I can probably offer a little bit of insight.

ethernet covers some of it, though there is a lot more to ECE as well. You cover networking, mobile application development, robotics, image processing and loads of other things.

The best bits of the course, from my opinion were the mobile phone development, building robots and programming microprocessors.

CS/IT focuses on what you do with a computer really. The foundation is the computer. ECE covers everything from the ground up, from the manufacturing of the processors to high level programming, with electronic components (both analog and digital), microprocessors, operating systems and everything in between.

By the end of the ECE course, you genuinely feel that you could work on any part of the electronics process from the ground up, from designing low level circuits to managing big company networks or programming large applications.

The course itself, I'd recommend highly, the hours can be long, but the projects are interesting, the lecturers and technicians are incredibly friendly and helpful, and, you'd be the first crop of undergrad students to take advantage of the new Engineering Building that was recently finished. Plus, job prospects in Computer Engineering at the moment are really good, pretty much all the announcements for new jobs in Ireland over the last year have been the likes of Dell, Cisco, Intel etc etc..

If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

BmxNoob

Thanks ethernet,TheCosmicFrog and stuohy1 for the replies .From what your saying , ECE is basically everything covered in " Comp sci & IT " and even more ?
So ECE will cover as much in the Software side of the course as " Comp sci & IT " aswell as covering the Hardware / electronic side ? And So at the end of the day a degree in ECE would win a job position over someone with a degree in " Comp sci & IT " because the ECE student would have covered more ?

On another point ,Ive done pass maths for my leaving cert and would be expecting hopefully a B3 in it . I was wondering how difficult the level of maths in ECE would be in comparison with " Comp sci & IT " .Would I be able to keep up with the same standard as the rest of the students ? Ive heard that the standard of maths in " Comp sci & IT " is manageble whilst on the other hand I've been hearing mixed views on the difficulty of maths in engineering ( ECE ) .
I'll also be sitting the special maths exam in August for my Engineering choices but I am unsure about the difficulty of this test and whether or not I'll obtain a pass .

everdead.ie

BmxNoob wrote: »

Thanks ethernet,TheCosmicFrog and stuohy1 for the replies .From what your saying , ECE is basically everything covered in " Comp sci & IT " and even more ?
So ECE will cover as much in the Software side of the course as " Comp sci & IT " aswell as covering the Hardware / electronic side ? And So at the end of the day a degree in ECE would win a job position over someone with a degree in " Comp sci & IT " because the ECE student would have covered more ?

On another point ,Ive done pass maths for my leaving cert and would be expecting hopefully a B3 in it . I was wondering how difficult the level of maths in ECE would be in comparison with " Comp sci & IT " .Would I be able to keep up with the same standard as the rest of the students ? Ive heard that the standard of maths in " Comp sci & IT " is manageble whilst on the other hand I've been hearing mixed views on the difficulty of maths in engineering ( ECE ) .
I'll also be sitting the special maths exam in August for my Engineering choices but I am unsure about the difficulty of this test and whether or not I'll obtain a pass .

Both courses overlap and both also do cover some extra areas like Software Engineering for CS&IT so it depends what you are looking for really.

I wouldn't say we cover everything that they cover, but we do a large amount of it, for example, we share Programming I, II and III which is the main programming course. We do Software Engineering, Distributed Systems and Object Oriented Programming too. We miss out on a database class I think and maybe some web programming stuff (?).

As far as Maths goes, yeah, there's Maths in both courses, there's more in ECE but it's well doable as long as you go to all the tutorials. There are a few a week so it can even pay to do more than one per week sometimes. If people only go to the lectures, they find it very hard, the tutorials are really the key to figuring it out. The Maths part is a bit frustrating at times but as you get into the 3rd and 4th year courses you start to use what you've learnt so it starts to make sense.

As regards the special maths exam, it's easier than honours but it's still challenging. I'd definitely recommend doing the prep course they run before hand. They want you to pass so they'll try and get you completely up to speed. That said, they wouldn't let you into Engineering after doing the exam if they didn't think that you'd be able to handle it.

Since you say you're hoping for a B3 in pass, I'd say you'll have to brush up a bit. You can get past papers online so get them and study what's on them.

As for winning a job against a CS/IT person, it depends on the job. ECE's are more flexible definitely. CS isn't about programming really, it's supposed to focus on the theoretical concepts which didn't really appeal to me, I'm more hands on.

Basically ECE covers much of the practical stuff from CS as well as electronics stuff. I've found, now this is nothing against any CS students, I know many of them could code rings around me, but the fact that you'd be a Computer 'Engineer' can play in your favour, people have a lot of respect for engineers.

everdead.ie

everdead.ie wrote: »

Both courses overlap and both also do cover some extra areas like Software Engineering for CS&IT so it depends what you are looking for really.

Actually ECE's do the 'Applied Software Engineering' course in 4th year too..

BmxNoob

Thanks for that reply stuohy1 ,very helpful .Ive skimmed over some of the pass exams for the special entrance exam there and many of the questions look doable ... Is a pass considered 40% or 35% because of the fact its a college exam ? Also another point to add is that I have studied Phys/Chem up to LC and Im hoping for ~ B1 in Honours .Would you think that while I may be lacking on the maths side ,this might be of considerable benefit ?

ethernet

BmxNoob wrote: »

Thanks ethernet,TheCosmicFrog and stuohy1 for the replies .From what your saying , ECE is basically everything covered in " Comp sci & IT " and even more ?
So ECE will cover as much in the Software side of the course as " Comp sci & IT " aswell as covering the Hardware / electronic side ? And So at the end of the day a degree in ECE would win a job position over someone with a degree in " Comp sci & IT " because the ECE student would have covered more ?

Couldn't entirely say that either. There's a limited amount of time so each course is going to go in its own direction and focus more on particular areas over others. It's not exactly about winning either! Having the added knowledge surround hardware and electronics certainly helps for certain positions - there are many jobs that would be suitable for graduates of either course.

As stuohy1 said, ECE people also take the main programming module (C in first year, Java in second and third year). CS & IT people take an extra module in programming paradigms in third year - this being in the area of computer science. As also pointed out, CS & IT folk are subjected to all sorts of database theory. This is a module shared with many groups in second year but gets plain ugly in third and final year and is not taken by ECEs.

The networking and communications module in addition to the distributed systems module are taken by both groups. However, CS & IT students take two semester in both of these modules, whereas ECEs each module for a single semester.

Essentially, there is a lot of overlap but, considering ECE is an engineering degree and CS & IT is a science degree, there is some shared ground but, ultimately, they will cover material relevant in their respective areas - it's not exactly a matter of covering more in one versus the other (unless you take IT through Arts, in which case students are expected to be given all sorts of flack and abuse ).

On another point ,Ive done pass maths for my leaving cert and would be expecting hopefully a B3 in it . I was wondering how difficult the level of maths in ECE would be in comparison with " Comp sci & IT " .Would I be able to keep up with the same standard as the rest of the students ? Ive heard that the standard of maths in " Comp sci & IT " is manageble whilst on the other hand I've been hearing mixed views on the difficulty of maths in engineering ( ECE ) .
I'll also be sitting the special maths exam in August for my Engineering choices but I am unsure about the difficulty of this test and whether or not I'll obtain a pass .

I did pass for the LC as well and had fun (ahem) for the first two years because we were lumped in with those lovely engineers and taking what would have been higher level maths. A big WTF for any pass maths student. At least now though the CS & IT people have a *choice* of taking pass maths without impacting upon their grades/degree. As has been mentioned, there is extra support for many modules outside of lectures, including maths, in the form of tutorials and the SUMS drop-in centre. Help is available so be sure to take it if needed!

For the special exam, apparently it's not marked like a normal exam really, they look at your answers to see have you a decent handle on maths and they judge your maths ability in that way (pass in college is still 40 by the way).

After talking to the relevant authorities, I reckon if you're looking for ECE, put it down first then CS second. After the results come out, even if you get the points for ECE, you won't get offered it in the first round, due to the fact you haven't done honours maths. If you do the maths exam and pass it, you will get offered ECE in the second round.

Off the record, if you do ECE, there is some lee way if it ends up you really don't like it to transfer across to CS, it's been done and since there is a lot of overlap, it's unlikely they'll stop you transferring after 1st year and maybe as far as into 2nd year.

By Phys/Chem, do you mean the combined one? Physics and Chemistry? Or both subjects? Either way they help, as in 1st year you do both Physics and Chemistry modules which are really just catch up modules that bring people up to LC level. I had done Physics, Chemistry and Applied Maths, which made the 3 subjects in 1st year simple (App Maths becomes Maths Physics in uni).

TheCosmicFrog

On the subject of maths, I will point out that if you're weak at maths, then an engineeing degree *may* not be the way to go. In CS&IT we have a choice between doing pass and honours maths, which doesn't in any way affect our degree. It's a bit nonsense really. I did pass maths for the LC myself, so it was a definite advantage of CS&IT.

I think two, maybe three (out of 49) of us did honours maths, so you can see the reasons why CS&IT may be preferred on the grounds of mathematical ability. I don't like maths, and I'll never end up working in a field where maths has a central role (at least in my position), so I can spend more time worrying about the aspects of computing that I like.

As it stands, we spend way too much of our time studying maths compared to other, more interesting and relevant subjects. And that's with pass maths. It's not difficult - it's actually perfectly manageable and the exams are grand - it just requires a lot of study. Honours would have driven me up the wall.

Remember, the private message button is there if you need me

yana005

Hey guys, thank you for all this information! It has answered a lot of my questions that have been lingering for a while. I now have a clearer view on each career path!
Thanks again.

TheCosmicFrog

yana005 wrote: »

Hey guys, thank you for all this information! It has answered a lot of my questions that have been lingering for a while. I now have a clearer view on each career path!
Thanks again.

Glad to help yana. If you need any more info, just send me a PM

decky191

Well im repeating first year in CS&IT so I can say its not the easiest course in the world, especially if you haven't done physics/honours maths in the leaving.

TheCosmicFrog

decky191 wrote: »

Well im repeating first year in CS&IT so I can say its not the easiest course in the world, especially if you haven't done physics/honours maths in the leaving.

I did pass maths in the Leaving Cert and barely scraped through it, but I got a pass (heh... 45%) in maths in 1st Year IT. It's definitely possible.

BmxNoob

Hi guys,

I got my results today and ended up getting 370 points overall .A ordinary B2 in maths and Honours B3 in Phys/Chem .

I have the special maths exam booked and the 5 day tutorial also booked but I dont think I'll do the exam at all now because my points are far off ECE and I think CS & IT suits me better because im doing pass maths .I can accept my CS & IT offer without sitting the special maths exam now that i got over a B3 in my maths .

So do you think I should cancel doing the special maths tutorials and exam and just accept CS & IT on first round offers if i get it ?

TheCosmicFrog

BmxNoob wrote: »

Hi guys,

I got my results today and ended up getting 370 points overall .A ordinary B2 in maths and Honours B3 in Phys/Chem .

I have the special maths exam booked and the 5 day tutorial also booked but I dont think I'll do the exam at all now because my points are far off ECE and I think CS & IT suits me better because im doing pass maths .I can accept my CS & IT offer without sitting the special maths exam now that i got over a B3 in my maths .

So do you think I should cancel doing the special maths tutorials and exam and just accept CS & IT on first round offers if i get it ?

First off, congrats!

Secondly, you should do whatever you feel is right for you. But if it was me, I'd take the offer for CS/IT if it came. You said your points were far off ECE? If that's the case, what is the point in sitting the Special Maths Exam?

BmxNoob

Thanks Cosmic ,Ya the reason why I said I might still sit the special exam is because I'll be getting one or two of my exams rechecked and im 20 points off what ECE was last year. So if the points were to drop or if I received more points from the rechecks, there might still be a possibility that I could get it .

But I think you've convinced me with the CS/IT so I think I'll cancel the special exam and stick with taking the offer if it comes monday .

I was wondering though ,does CS/IT cover any subjects such as hardware based pc problems and solutions ( like hardware problems a PC Technician might face e.g. graphics card ,ram ,hard drive ,cd drive issues , and how to fix them) or is that in ECE .Just asking because Im wondering if I could use the skills I aquire throughout the course to also work as a part time PC tech in the meantime ?

TheCosmicFrog

BmxNoob wrote: »

I was wondering though ,does CS/IT cover any subjects such as hardware based pc problems and solutions ( like hardware problems a PC Technician might face e.g. graphics card ,ram ,hard drive ,cd drive issues , and how to fix them) or is that in ECE .Just asking because Im wondering if I could use the skills I aquire throughout the course to also work as a part time PC tech in the meantime ?

There's not a lot of hands-on high-level stuff in CS&IT. While you won't learn how to troubleshoot a hard drive, you'll learn the fundamental workings of a hard drive. How does a HDD store, write and retrieve data? What happens when data that the CPU assumed was there isn't actually there? Much of what you learn is low-level stuff. This can then obviously be applied to high-level stuff. Does that help?

BmxNoob

Yes that kind of helps ,so are you saying that thats just the hands on / hardware side of CS & IT thats more lower level stuff rather than the software side which will be taught to a higher level ?

TheCosmicFrog

BmxNoob wrote: »

Yes that kind of helps ,so are you saying that thats just the hands on / hardware side of CS & IT thats more lower level stuff rather than the software side which will be taught to a higher level ?

Effectively yes, but there is low-level programming (Assembly) taught too. There's a good mix of everything really.

BmxNoob

Ok thanks for that !