[Gaming Violence] US Supreme Court: "Games are Free Speech"

Overheal

"Like the protected books, plays, and movies that preceded them, video games communicate ideas—and even social messages—through many familiar literary devices (such as characters, dialogue, plot, and music) and through features distinctive to the medium (such as the player’s interaction with the virtual world). That suffices to confer First Amendment protection. Under our Constitution, “esthetic and moral judgments about art and literature . . . are for the individual to make, not for the Government to decree, even with the mandate or approval of a majority.""

That was the front page to day on the Steam store. Earlier this morning the United States Supreme Court upheld that Games are a expressive media and are protected under the First Amendment of the US Constitution. With many countries having very similar protections in their own Constitutions. This overthrew an attempt by the State of California to ban the sale of "Extremely Violent" video games to minors under any circumstances.

http://kotaku.com/5795472/video-games-defeat-california-in-supreme-court-battle-over-violent-video-games

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/08-1448.pdf

It's a landmark ruling that might see similar case take place in other countries. Which all again, leaves parents to having to be responsible for their children, and not expect the government to do it all for them.

lionfish

I agree that there are very violent video games which young kids are trying to get their hands on and I believe it is the parents job to teach their kids what's acceptable and what is not.
I wasn't allowed buy "Grand Theft Auto" as a kid because my parents were sensible enough to see the age rating.
It's been proven that video games can play with the players emotions at times and this may lead to many minor or serious problems
however isn't what makes video games so much fun is loosing yourself for a couple of hours in a world of disbelief so you don't have to think about work or in a child's case, the stress's of homework or a rough day at school (we've all had one).

Zero-Cool

Kiith

It takes a Supreme Court ruling for common sense to prevail...

TheDoc

This overthrew an attempt by the State of California to ban the sale of "Extremely Violent" video games to minors under any circumstances.

?

Its down to parenting and parenting alone. You should know what is or is not suitable for your child. As I always say, my parents took an active interest in the games I played and the movies I wanted to watch.

My Dad would rent things like Predator and Alien etc when I was only a nipper and watch them with me.

When I got my first Sega Megadrive he would sit on the couch and watch me play, then eventually he started playing himself.

I've turned out fine, and now he has a PC more powerful then mine and we play games on our LAN regularly.

If your child buys an 18 game when they are not 18, and they are playing it without your knowledge, its not the video games fault, its yours.

MY Da still keeps an active interest, not so much anymore for my protection but just as a basic parent interaction so he knows what I'm into. The recent phone shows about video games has truely shown me Ireland is turning into a little State of cotton wool and that its a place for Morons : /

humanji

Are movies allowed to be sold to any age?

I'm probably picking this up all wrong, but is it not a bad idea to allow kids be exposed to things they really shouldn't be? And could this lead to loads of law suits against game makers because box art was misleading or there weren't enough warnings or any other frivolous cases?

Gandalph

I bought GTA1, Resident Evil2 & Tenchu all in one swoop when I was like 10....I find that Im not really satisfied with a game these days unless there is excessive violence.

1st time I ever seen a kid get slaughtered in a game (Prey) I was like "Fricken AWESOME!!!.....oh crap, poor kid"

Iv never felt the urge to spill blood in real life

RedXIV

I still remember the shame and humilation as my dad marched me back to the game shop when I was 11 and had bought GTA the original. He gave the guy behind the counter a blistering lecture for about 10 mins and all I could think about was how much I wanted the ground to swallow me up.

In hindsight I see now his point, you wouldn't sell an 11yr old an 18s movie, why would you sell them an 18s game.

So far, the only parent I've encountered anywhere in life who cared about age ratings was my dad.

Morag

We go by content rather then age rating.
There's nothing our kids play that we have not already taken the time to check out.
There are some 15 rated game which they are allowed play like Halo and Fable and one 18s game. Ratings are guidelines for good parents only lazy ones let them be the only thing they make the call on and as for those who expect all video game or animated series/films to be suitable for kids well they are old fashioned idiots imho.

Sin_J

humanji wrote: »

Are movies allowed to be sold to any age?

I'm probably picking this up all wrong, but is it not a bad idea to allow kids be exposed to things they really shouldn't be? And could this lead to loads of law suits against game makers because box art was misleading or there weren't enough warnings or any other frivolous cases?

Every game is rated by the ESRB (the game rating board) and is clearly displayed on all boxes with a breakdown of the contents of the game, just like movies. Most stores at least in the US enforce the rating on the box.

This ruling makes it so that the store or employee can't be charged if a minor does happen to get their hands on a game above the rating meant for them. Which would have made game stores unwilling to stock games over a certain rating which meant developers wouldn't be willing to make games with content that would give it a high rating.

In that situation everybody loses. As was said before, it's up to the parents to control the content their children has access to, not the government.

Hell i bought a Diablo battlechest in a gamestop in florida a few years ago and got ID'd. Diablo is not exactly cutting edge graphics. So the stores do enforce it.

Kiith

Sin_J wrote: »

This ruling makes it so that the store or employee can't be charged if a minor does happen to get their hands on a game above the rating meant for them. Which would have made game stores unwilling to stock games over a certain rating which meant developers wouldn't be willing to make games with content that would give it a high rating.

I do think that there needs to be harsh penalties against shops that sell to minors. I'm all for freedom to buy what we want, but the ratings definitely need to be enforced.

Sin_J

But the rating system is voluntary. It's a suggested rating only. Game companies don't have to get their games rated at all. But all the companies do because it's worth it in the long run.

If the stores were liable then they just wouldn't stock content that could get them in trouble.

RedXIV

Sin_J wrote: »

But the rating system is voluntary. It's a suggested rating only. Game companies don't have to get their games rated at all. But all the companies do because it's worth it in the long run.

If the stores were liable then they just wouldn't stock content that could get them in trouble.

This is true, I remember seeing the ridiculous lengths games companies were going to to get the lowest rating possible. about a fifth of the script for the kung fu panda game got rewritten to get a lower rating. All because lower ratings mean that parents that use the ratings as a guide will buy the games for younger kids.

Although from personal experience, some of the things that taken into account for the ratings are ridiculous.

Helix

humanji wrote: »

Are movies allowed to be sold to any age?

I'm probably picking this up all wrong, but is it not a bad idea to allow kids be exposed to things they really shouldn't be? And could this lead to loads of law suits against game makers because box art was misleading or there weren't enough warnings or any other frivolous cases?

the point is it CANT lead to lawsuits after this ruling because theres nothing illegal about it

Krusader

I playd all the over 18s games when i was younger and i turned out fine *twitch*

A highlight in my younger days was mowing down all the Hare Krishnas in the very 1st GTA

CramCycle

Crosáidí wrote: »

I playd all the over 18s games when i was younger and i turned out fine *twitch*

A highlight in my younger days was mowing down all the Hare Krishnas in the very 1st GTA

Same here, I played Duke3D when I was about 14/15. I have never felt the need to "kick ass and chew bubble gum" but you never know, no alien scum trashed my ride and stole my babes yet :pac::pac::pac::pac:

After playing GTA I also never felt a need to steal an ambulance or a want to break into my local barracks and drive a tank around the city but then again maybe I've just never made the effort :P Maybe computer games have done nothing but prove what an underachiever I am.

Dave_The_Sheep

CramCycle wrote: »

After playing GTA I also never felt a need to steal an ambulance or a want to break into my local barracks and drive a tank around the city but then again maybe I've just never made the effort :P Maybe computer games have done nothing but prove what an underachiever I am.

No, these things I too have never had an urge to do.

But I have gotten into my car after playing too much GTA and had to resist the impulse to drive on the wrong side of the road or pay absolutely no attention to traffic lights. Or after playing too much IL-2, start looking for the "fire" button on my gearstick to blow the car in front of me away...

CramCycle

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

had to resist the impulse to drive on the wrong side of the road or pay absolutely no attention to traffic lights.

Funnily enough I know/see plenty of people who do this every night on my way home from work and the ones I read about on the papers (TDs etc) don't strike me as gamers although I could be wrong :pac::pac::pac:

Fanny Cradock

If film is age rated, why not computer games?

RedXIV

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

If film is age rated, why not computer games?

They are

Sin_J

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

If film is age rated, why not computer games?

They are rated by the ESRB http://www.esrb.org/index-js.jsp
Which has a much better reputation for ratings than most film rating boards.

VinLieger

Sin_J wrote: »

They are rated by the ESRB http://www.esrb.org/index-js.jsp
Which has a much better reputation for ratings than most film rating boards.

The ESRB rate games in the US, Europe uses PEGI http://www.pegi.info/en/index/
England also use a different system to the rest of Europe, they use the BBFC http://www.bbfc.co.uk/ their film ratings board

o1s1n

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

If film is age rated, why not computer games?

And while we're at it, why not books too? I'm pretty sure I'd be more drawn to the bible if it has a BBFC 18 on the front :pac:

Robert ninja

I can't believe that people still think ratings do anything. Games,
music, movies and art should MOSTLY be exposed to children of all ages... it
NEVER turns them into gangsters ffs. Go to prisons and ask how many of them are gaming nerds. Walk to your local drug dealer and ask the same thing. That doesn't mean it can have negative effects though, but that only goes for the seriosly screwed up games. It's up to the parents not to be retarded of which games are bad news for their 10 year old. But a lot of parents seem to be really f'ing shyte at raising their kids to invent a lame rating system. What are people honestly expecting here? Kids to copy the insane things in video games? I will quote myself here for the lulz.

Robert ninja wrote: »

Not only that, the rating systems couldn't be any dumber than they
already are. Movie directors already make sure they lower the volume
of gunshots and mute bones breaking and that insures a "PG" rating.
Because LOUD gunshots and 'hearing' the bone crack is totally gonna
make your kids try it now. :rolleyes:

And if all this wasn't bad enough, sex is STILL the most taboo thing
to be shown in media and art. Look, Silent Hill 3 has a rating of 16.
This is a rare game that I WOULD actually reccomend you not to let your
younger kids play as it does indeed screw with very real emotions and
ideas that children probably shouldn't be getting messed up just yet
(leave that for when they actully have the strength to kill others, makes sense!) yet things like SCARY MOVIE or crappy RESIDENT EVIL 5 (scary stuff like bad story telling) get 18. Why? Because Scary Movie has a few dick jokes and Resident Evil's 18 mark is the only reason it even sells anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWr4htYp9dM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ7comwLPFY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLBx9XOhsm8

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

wtf?

all my drug dealears were serious gamers, every one of them

I dont think i've ever even met a dealer who wasn't a gamer. I met someone whos job it was to drive the weed around from the supplier to the dealer, but he was african and had just arrived in the country recently so I dont think he could afford a console.

probably has five of them now, or he's in prison.

Robert ninja

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

wtf?

all my drug dealears were serious gamers, every one of them

I dont think i've ever even met a dealer who wasn't a gamer. I met someone whos job it was to drive the weed around from the supplier to the dealer, but he was african and had just arrived in the country recently so I dont think he could afford a console.

probably has five of them now, or he's in prison.

Aw man, lucky you - you got all the cool dealers. All the dealers I ever met were knuckle-dragging dicks who could only manage a mobile phone. Anything beyond that was too difficult for their minds to grasp.

Overheal

humanji wrote: »

Are movies allowed to be sold to any age?

Under the law, yes. Individual companies can make their own policies though.

Fnz

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

If film is age rated, why not computer games?

I agree(?). It is a perfectly cromulent system, for both industries.

humanji

Helix wrote: »

the point is it CANT lead to lawsuits after this ruling because theres nothing illegal about it

You underestimate people's ability to sue for the flimsiest of reasons.

Also, how does this involve the First Amendment? It's not restricting peoples freedom of speech or to express themselves. Does it also cover peoples access to these things?

Overheal

humanji wrote: »

You underestimate people's ability to sue for the flimsiest of reasons.

Also, how does this involve the First Amendment? It's not restricting peoples freedom of speech or to express themselves. Does it also cover peoples access to these things?

Pretty much. The government can't censor a demographic from seeing a violent film, or a nude piece of art. To do so impairs on the free speech of the artist. Parents are allowed to control their minors and private establishments can refuse admissions, but it's not for the government to make it illegal for a cinema to permit a youth into an R-rated movie.

Fanny Cradock

Just to clarify - is the film age rating system in Ireland merely a suggested age or a binding rule on the minimum age required to view films?