Sub 2:50 DCM '11

Killerz

Cant believe you didnt hang on in the pub for me.

Mustve just missed you....think you met mrs killerz?

theboyblunder

Hard luck seany. Sounds very tough indeed with sore feet and a tough wind. Had a similar experience in a marathon with wind ruining it before. You will come back stronger

Fair play for hanging on in there - and sub 3 is sub 3, great run on a bad day.

Gringo78

Did you not have a tough time out in Dublin last year with the racing flats also????

Looking at your splits, the feeling of light headedness, woozyness etc sounds a bit like like glycogen depletion. I reckon you need to take on 300-550 calories during a marathon - when you're pushing the target pace pretty close to what you consider your limit, and also on a windy course when its hard to run 'even effort' pace, I reckon you're looking at requiring closer to the upper end of the scale - To provide the equivalent of 5 standard gels (or 450 calories), in to addition to the 3 cliff shots you'd have needed 17 plastic cups of gatorade (from plastic cups of gatorade you're gonna get max around 20 calories per cup)

Krusty_Clown

That's why I'd prefer to run in heat than in wind. If the wind arrives early in the race, it can push you north of your lactate threshold, which means a very tough 15-22 miles. If it arrives later in the race, you may well be ahead of your target, but you've got to greatly increase your effort to maintain a steady pace. Ugh..
That's the challenge with marathon running. You can't run them too frequently, and yet plans can so easily be thrown asunder by so many factors (weather, nutrition, health, injuries, tripping, shoes, blisters etc).

seanynova

Killerz wrote: »

Cant believe you didnt hang on in the pub for me.

Mustve just missed you....think you met mrs killerz?

hey mate, sorry i had to leave, i had company who was also up as early as me so had to go. i wasnt feeling the best either though, a little delierious so wasnt much company.
how did you get on? how the run wasnt too strenous after last week.

theboyblunder wrote: »

Hard luck seany. Sounds very tough indeed with sore feet and a tough wind. Had a similar experience in a marathon with wind ruining it before. You will come back stronger

Fair play for hanging on in there - and sub 3 is sub 3, great run on a bad day.

ture i suppose, 2:58 is no failure....dont feel too bad about no hitting my goal, my run of pb's is over but again, i feel fine about it.

Gringo78 wrote: »

Did you not have a tough time out in Dublin last year with the racing flats also????

Looking at your splits, the feeling of light headedness, woozyness etc sounds a bit like like glycogen depletion. I reckon you need to take on 300-550 calories during a marathon - when you're pushing the target pace pretty close to what you consider your limit, and also on a windy course when its hard to run 'even effort' pace, I reckon you're looking at requiring closer to the upper end of the scale - To provide the equivalent of 5 standard gels (or 450 calories), in to addition to the 3 cliff shots you'd have needed 17 plastic cups of gatorade (from plastic cups of gatorade you're gonna get max around 20 calories per cup)

your spot on gringo, it was total glycogen depletion, i was feeling those effects at around half way, which should really have been the case but i notice my HR was riding a little high for the 1st 15km, in and around 172-173bpm, should have been at 168-169, so yes....i was burning the wrong fuel and wasnt replenishing to the same extent.
those 3 cliff shot block is supposed to be the equivalent of 1 regualar gel but they were a pain to take!
the cups were working ok for me but you can never really take on board what you want so another reason for not replenishing the stocks.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

That's why I'd prefer to run in heat than in wind. If the wind arrives early in the race, it can push you north of your lactate threshold, which means a very tough 15-22 miles. If it arrives later in the race, you may well be ahead of your target, but you've got to greatly increase your effort to maintain a steady pace. Ugh..
That's the challenge with marathon running. You can't run them too frequently, and yet plans can so easily be thrown asunder by so many factors (weather, nutrition, health, injuries, tripping, shoes, blisters etc).

true, its a cruel even like that, at least with a half you could always race another one 2weeks later to the same ability, but not with a marathon....like what happen fagan, all his training, and gunning for olympic qualification and got a bad day....plan quickly unravel eh!




i still maintain im the reason i didnt go sub2:50 though, i wasnt in the right shape even though winds were against me and my shoe/fueling options worked against me, im to blame.

giving up marathons for a while, i spent 16weeks doing marathon training but my next plan is to do build up phase and then 18weeks of dedicated 5k training....will be interesting.

first off though im taking a few weeks off to recover, was riding my luck with a patella tap in my knee for the last few months!, better let it heal...so its core/strenght for the next while and then back to running

Killerz

seanynova wrote: »

hey mate, sorry i had to leave, i had company who was also up as early as me so had to go. i wasnt feeling the best either though, a little delierious so wasnt much company.
how did you get on? how the run wasnt too strenous after last week.

No problem...was only joking, i totally understand.
I think we only just missed each other though, which is a shame.
Hope the recovery going well and that you got over the post-race issues. I heard the bag pickup was an absolute shocker, prob didnt help things.

I finishes in 3:53. Didnt take any chances, nice and slow. Heavy legs on me, tough going, but redemption is mine!

All the best,
Killerz

cwgatling

Well done Seany, great performance and fair play for gutting it out. 2:58 is great going.

I took those shot blocks in Kildare, not sure how good they are.

Gringo78

cwgatling wrote: »

I took those shot blocks in Kildare, not sure how good they are.

The shot blocks at only 33 calories a pop look good if you don't want a big mouth full of gel but you have set reserves of glycogen and if you use it all up, you better be replacing enough that you only hit zero after you're over the finish line. At my marathon pace, I reckon I need 5-6 gels to get me to the finish line keeping just above empty. I'd have to take 15-18 cliff shot bloks to give me equivalent number of calories.

I've been running with the family at weekends (they're on a bike) which involves 3 miles at tempo pace to a coffee shop, stop & eat some coffee, lunch, cake etc then 3 more tempo miles back home. Twas tough at the start to run after the lunch but after 5 months of this almost every sat/sun my stomach makes no complaints now which makes taking on gels in a marathon so much easier.

pgmcpq

Great performance even if off you best. Impressive off such a short training training cycle.

I find the Clif Bloks hard to get down on the run. I think they designed them for horses. I've tried slicing them in two or three pieces which helps, but I'd still never use them to replace gels fully.

seanynova

3 of those cliff blocks is supposed to be one regular gel but i dont even think its that. not sure how much gaterade i was sipping but there was 17 aid stations and i had a cup or two at each station, cups were not very full and also spilt some but i defo was not getting dehyrated but i felt a definate lack of energy after half way.

still though, i ran too fast early on and paid the price for it.

watch the race last night and there actually was a nice tailwind judging by the flags but in my elevated lactate state it didnt feel like it.

hindsight makes me wish i went for sub 2:55 and prob would have ran it comfortable had i paced it right but didnt do too badly considering i was fading badly.

will catch up on others logs shortly, was always stuck for time when training myself but taking 2-3(or more)weeks off now to let the body heal before i tackle a worthy adversary....a 5k!!!

thanks again for the support.

Krusty_Clown

seanynova wrote: »

hindsight makes me wish i went for sub 2:55 and prob would have ran it comfortable had i paced it right but didnt do too badly considering i was fading badly.

Lol. This is sounding more and more like my experience and post-race thought process. Now the dust has settled, I have come around to the fact that there's nothing wrong with going for an aggressive target and not hitting it. It's not being greedy, it's being ambitious, and there's nothing wrong with that. After a week has passed, the hours, minutes and seconds on the clock are no longer relevant. What's important is what we got out of the training, what we got out of the experience, and what we do next.

seanynova

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Lol. This is sounding more and more like my experience and post-race thought process. Now the dust has settled, I have come around to the fact that there's nothing wrong with going for an aggressive target and not hitting it. It's not being greedy, it's being ambitious, and there's nothing wrong with that. After a week has passed, the hours, minutes and seconds on the clock are no longer relevant. What's important is what we got out of the training, what we got out of the experience, and what we do next.

well your race report from chicago was in my mind when i was thinking of stopping.....cheers for that unspoken encouragement.

im gunning to do another marathon, i feel i have unfinished business with it but ill hold off for a while before doing another one due to time commitments...im sure you will get the better of the next one you race too.