Car safety - What do you think ??

greengirl31

My little girl goes to a crèche that's in quite a large estate and I know the majority of the kids in there, live in the estate. Therefore, you would not have to drive on a "main" road to get from crèche to house but like I said it's quite a big estate so there's quite a lot of traffic.
Now when it comes to car seats and Kids being strapped in, I'm a very cautious. I don't even move out of my car space without my little girl being strapped in Now I know some say that might be going a little too far but the way I see it, I could be the best driver on the road but you don't know what's going to come around the corner. And for the sake of a few seconds, is it really worth the risk!!
Anyway, when I'm dropping off or picking up my little girl I'm horrified by some of the things I see. I've regularly see a dad collecting his 2 toddler boys and have one of them "driving" on his lap while the other is sitting or standing in the front seat. I've seen another Mum strapping 2 toddlers into the front seat (adult seatbelt around the two of them) while there's 2 seats in the back. Kids standing in the back seats but yesterday took the biscuit. The guy picked his 2 kids and drove away while one of them was standing on the arm rest between the 2 front seats with his head sticking out the sun roof !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Am I way over the top when it comes to car safety or does anyone else think this is appalling ????

January

Of course it's appalling and you know what you do when you see it? Take down the reg number, where it took place and what happened in each car and put a call into trafficwatch. The Garda will follow it up and ask you to make a statement about it.

meep

You are absolutely right. The children won't distinguish between a short trip in an estate and a trip down the road to the shops and a trip on the motorway to get to the zoo or whatever.

If you don't apply the same standards/requirements on all journeys, you're giving them mixed messages about the importance of car safety and asking for trouble.

One think we came across when our children were younger was the notion of 'seatbelt sherrif' - you give the child the responsibility of ensuring everyone in the car is strapped in before the car moves off. Not only do the LOVE scolding mum/dad for doing something wrong should we forget (sometimes on purpose to ensure the message is getting across) but it leads to them naturally belting up as well.

Rather than reporting people, maybe a more subtle approach would be to have a word with the creche management and suggest they run a fun programme on car safety. Wouldn't those other parents get a surprise if the child turns around and says 'Daddy, I can't sit in the front on your lap, I need to be strapped in to my booster seat in the back".

The RSA has lots of support materials that could be used.

Daisy M

Hi OP i AGREE with you children should be belted in safely and in appropriate seats at all times when travelling by car. I can see januarys point but if this is something you are noticing on a regular basis it may be hard to follow up after all you dont want to end up having an accident trying to get someone elses number plate.
Do as meep suggests speak with the creche and maybe pop into local gardai station if crech dont follow up, they may be willing to come in and give a chat to kids.
Cant believe the dad letting the kid stick his head out through sunroof, did he not realise that if he braked the child could have ended up with a broken neck or decapitated, shocking behaviour either really negligent or brain dead.

Victor Meldrew

Re: Car safety, both our boys are always strapped in, regardless.

The solution here is for the Creche to shame the moronic parents into obeying the law. RSA Posters in the windows and a letter on headed paper stating that the Gardai in local station XXXXX have noticed that not all parents are strapping their kids in... Gently reminding them of obligations and penalties and saying that the Gardai will be checking up on this...

Might be no harm to pop into the local garda station to get them to be there at drop-off. One parent being hauled up in front of the community and humiliated would do the trick..

Education programmes in Creche's can be effective too. Our 4 year old does a "Stretch and Grow" thing in Montessori and he has hauled up "Mrs Meldrew" up on drinking wine and now knows that coco pops are junk.

Ayla

This has always driven me mad, seeing parents not having an ounce of respect for what a minor fender bender can do to an unsecured child.

My office window overlooks a small parking lot which we share with a number of businesses (one being a doctor's surgery) and it's painful to see how some parents neglect their child's safety.

I would *love* to see guarda checkpoints all over the place looking for this kind of thing. A minor tap on the breaks & a kid in the back would suddenly find themselves up front!

The other posters have made good points (ie: calling the guardi or reporting negligent parents). Makes me think I should do the same with the doctor's surgery next door.

Justask

Rant alert :mad::mad::mad:

Was in a car park today waiting to collect my son.
Parked the car beside a Blue Cleo.... Was sitting there waiting and noticed a baby (maybe 14 months) asleep in the car alone... I was there for at least 20 mins and the car was there before me.

The baby was sound asleep, but it she woke up she would get such a fright.

I said it to a security guard and he said he would look into it.

My son came out (late as usual :rolleyes:)
I waited and out come Mum (I presume) 'Thats kinda dangerous leaving baby in the car alone' I was told were to go and how to get there. :eek:

So annoyed :mad:

Justask

Ok my head is in the clouds WHY DID THAT POST HERE?????

Sorry about that.... I think I need a cuppa :eek:

Ayla

I pulled up to a library drop box once & in a people carrier parked nearby were 3 kids running amuck. The car was left running.

I had to go into the library & I mentioned it to the librarian on duty. As it turned up, the woman who owned the car (i'm assuming the kid's mom) was standing right there. I turned to her & railed her out seriously. Imagine what would've happened if one of the kids knocked the parking brake off, or someone took the car (that happened recently enough!). No doubt she was flustered & upset, but I bet she thought it over a bit as she ran out to her car (to drive away with none of the kids even buckled in!) :mad:

How Strange

Unfortunately I doubt you'd get much of a reaction out of the gardai. This type of thing doesn't seem to be high on their priorities. Perhaps contact the community garda for the area and mention it to him/her as they are usually more involved in these areas. They may perhaps visit the creche, speak to the staff and organise a campaign of awareness for parents.

greengirl31

This Kinda thing has been bugging me for ages but you know yourself, other parents don't like to be told what to do. The crèche did have the Guards in recently as part of a people that help us thing - They had a fireman and a nurse and something else too I think but can't remember. Anyway, when the guards were in my daughters room, the subject of seatbelts came up and one of the kids said "my daddy never wears a seat belt" ... Now, I'm sure it was dealt with appropriately at the time - i.e. it's wrong etc etc. but still !!
I need to speak to the manager of the crèche about something else anyway, so I'm going to bring it up with her. I think I'll give the local guards a little call too.
It absolutely infuriates me how people do not realise what damage a minor tip could do ... I NEVER don't wear my seat belt and insist all passengers in my car wear one too - Front and back. As the ad says " it's the one without the seatbelt that did the damage" !!!

doubletrouble?

Justask wrote: »

Rant alert :mad::mad::mad:

Was in a car park today waiting to collect my son.
Parked the car beside a Blue Cleo.... Was sitting there waiting and noticed a baby (maybe 14 months) asleep in the car alone... I was there for at least 20 mins and the car was there before me.

The baby was sound asleep, but it she woke up she would get such a fright.

I said it to a security guard and he said he would look into it.

My son came out (late as usual :rolleyes:)
I waited and out come Mum (I presume) 'Thats kinda dangerous leaving baby in the car alone' I was told were to go and how to get there. :eek:

So annoyed :mad:

ahhh yes typical irish laws or lack off i should say. i remember either reading or seeing something about a woman being arrested for leaving her baby alone in her car for about two minutes while she dropped off something in a shop. but anyway. heres something that we could do with here.
Safety Laws in California

Leaving Children or Pets Unattended in a Car
It is illegal to leave a child six years of age or younger unattended in a motor vehicle when:

• There are conditions that present a significant risk to the child's health or safety. Example: Leaving a child in a closed car on a very hot day.

• The vehicle's engine is running, the keys are in the ignition, or both. Children can start or move the car causing injuries and/or deaths to themselves or others. An opportunist may (and many have) seize the moment to jump in and drive your car away, child still strapped in.

Violators may be fined and required to attend a community education program. If the child is injured, requires emergency medical services, or dies, then the penalties become more severe.
Also remember that pets also deserve the same care and should not be left unattended in a vehicle on a hot day.
If you see an endangered child or pet, call 911 and stay by the vehicle.

angeldaisy

I noticed the same thing when my son was in a creche, again in a large estate. there was one father in particular who never fastened his son in, he would have been around 3 at the time, and the child always was either standing or sitting in the front seat.
I went to the guards about it and was basically told that I could make a statement if I wanted, but would have to give my name and that the statement, with my name on it, would be given to the person I was complaining about. :eek:
In the end I didn't bother about it, but I wish now I had spoken to the creche about it.
What I did use to do was if I was collecting my son at the same time as them I would make a big deal about my son using his seat and belt rather loudly "we have to sit in our car seat don't we *****, and why do we do this? To keep you safe... etc etc..."

Fittle

I have NEVER left my son in the car on his own, even for one second, as I will never forget my brothers neighbours story, almost 8yrs ago now.

His wife had gone to the shop, with their 2yr old in the back of the car, all strapped in, safe and secure. She forgot her purse and drove back home and literally, jumped out of the car and ran into the house to get the purse... The little fella was asleep in the back of the car. Another neighbour was driving out of the estate and somehow, crashed into the back of her parked car having lost control of their own car. There was very little speed involved.
The child was killed instantly and the neighbour was seriously injured.

I never forgot that story - my lad was only a baby at the time it happened, but because of it, I have never left him in the car on his own - not even when I have to get petrol in the garage. Still almost brings tears to my eyes.

I have seen many parents (particularly mothers!) drive with their young kids in the front seat of the car when they were tiny, in the back seat with no seatbelt and leave kids of all ages in the car alone...all of this in and around the school gates when they are running into the school with another child. It still gives me the shivers when I see it....

Justask

Fittle wrote: »

I have NEVER left my son in the car on his own, even for one second, as I will never forget my brothers neighbours story, almost 8yrs ago now.

His wife had gone to the shop, with their 2yr old in the back of the car, all strapped in, safe and secure. She forgot her purse and drove back home and literally, jumped out of the car and ran into the house to get the purse... The little fella was asleep in the back of the car. Another neighbour was driving out of the estate and somehow, crashed into the back of her parked car having lost control of their own car. There was very little speed involved.
The child was killed instantly and the neighbour was seriously injured.

I never forgot that story - my lad was only a baby at the time it happened, but because of it, I have never left him in the car on his own - not even when I have to get petrol in the garage. Still almost brings tears to my eyes.

I have seen many parents (particularly mothers!) drive with their young kids in the front seat of the car when they were tiny, in the back seat with no seatbelt and leave kids of all ages in the car alone...all of this in and around the school gates when they are running into the school with another child. It still gives me the shivers when I see it....

Oh good god :eek:

Fittle

Justask wrote: »

Oh good god :eek:

I know - it's such a horrific story. I was only learning to drive at the time and my little fella was still quite tiny. I was terrified even having him in the car with me for such a long time. The neighbour recovered, after months of rehabilitation, but moved out of the estate soon after. The mother of the child and her husband have since split up and she doesn't have other children. She is my brothers next door neighbour and to this day, I never know what to say to her when I see her. God bless her.

implausible

Justask wrote: »

Was in a car park today waiting to collect my son.
Parked the car beside a Blue Cleo.... Was sitting there waiting and noticed a baby (maybe 14 months) asleep in the car alone... I was there for at least 20 mins and the car was there before me.

The baby was sound asleep, but it she woke up she would get such a fright.

I said it to a security guard and he said he would look into it.

My son came out (late as usual :rolleyes:)
I waited and out come Mum (I presume) 'Thats kinda dangerous leaving baby in the car alone' I was told were to go and how to get there. :eek:

In fairness, I don't think I'd be too impressed if someone said that to me either. My 12 month old always falls asleep in the back of the car and isn't a baby who frightens when he wakes up. I know it's a risk, but I do leave him asleep while I run into a shop for milk or whatever - I always park right outside. Sometimes he is awake when I get back, but he just gives me a big smile, he's not a panicker. It's major hassle to lift and wake a sleeping toddler just to go into a shop for 3 minutes!

As for the car seat thing - I'd agree 100%. Toddlers don't always like being strapped into a seat, but if you give into them on this little thing, you're making hard work for yourself in the future, as well as endangering them.

Ayla

deemark wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think I'd be too impressed if someone said that to me either. ... It's major hassle to lift and wake a sleeping toddler just to go into a shop for 3 minutes!

In fairness, what you're describing is not what Justask was commenting on. In that case the parent had been gone for over 20 mins.

I never, ever, no matter what, leave my child in a car when the car will be out of my sight. I have pulled over to run to an outdoor ATM, but I turn off the car & lock the door. If my child falls asleep (actually, can't remember the last time that happened!) I would sit it out until they wake up, or I would take them out of the car. Anything else is irresponsible, imo.

Cottontail

I hate, hate, hate seeing kids in cars without the appropriate car seats. Don't parents realise it's for their safety?

We also had an incident one day where we were doing grocery shopping, and the car next to us had a baby locked inside on it's own. We were so worried about the child. We looked everywhere for a Garda to report it to but couldn't find one, in the end we said it to the attendant in the car park who said that it happens all the time and there's nothing he could do, if he approached the parents he would likely be told to F**k off. I just couldn't believe that it's such a common occurance.

January

deemark wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think I'd be too impressed if someone said that to me either. My 12 month old always falls asleep in the back of the car and isn't a baby who frightens when he wakes up. I know it's a risk, but I do leave him asleep while I run into a shop for milk or whatever - I always park right outside. Sometimes he is awake when I get back, but he just gives me a big smile, he's not a panicker. It's major hassle to lift and wake a sleeping toddler just to go into a shop for 3 minutes!

As for the car seat thing - I'd agree 100%. Toddlers don't always like being strapped into a seat, but if you give into them on this little thing, you're making hard work for yourself in the future, as well as endangering them.

In fairness it only takes one minute for another road user to lost control and crash into your car... it's just not worth the risk for me...

implausible

January wrote: »

In fairness it only takes one minute for another road user to lost control and crash into your car... it's just not worth the risk for me...

That could happen when you're in the car either. Maybe it's because I don't live in a big town or because I'm not a worrier, but leaving him in the car while I pop into the shop or pay for my diesel makes more sense to me than waking him from his nap and having a crabbit baby the whole way home.

Justask

deemark wrote: »

That could happen when you're in the car either. Maybe it's because I don't live in a big town or because I'm not a worrier, but leaving him in the car while I pop into the shop or pay for my diesel makes more sense to me than waking him from his nap and having a crabbit baby the whole way home.

Did you read Fittles post???????

implausible

Justask wrote: »

Did you read Fittles post???????

Yes. It's a tragic story. However, if I changed my behaviour because of every single tragic story I've heard, my child would live in a padded cell, he wouldn't eat solid food, he wouldn't have baths, the dog would have been put down and we would never leave the house.

What happened to that poor family is a tragic freak accident. I know our instincts as parents are to protect, but it simply isn't possible to avoid all risks.

dark crystal

deemark wrote: »

That could happen when you're in the car either. Maybe it's because I don't live in a big town or because I'm not a worrier, but leaving him in the car while I pop into the shop or pay for my diesel makes more sense to me than waking him from his nap and having a crabbit baby the whole way home.

I'm actually in agreement with you there.

When you have a small baby, where every second they sleep is precious, I wouldn't ever wake them up to bring them into the shop just for a minute or to pay for the petrol. As long as the engine is off and the doors are locked, I don't see the harm at all - as awful and tragic as Fittle's post was, it would be safe enough to presume that would be a one in a million type accident and as you said, same thing could happen whether you were in the car or not at the time.

However, someone leaving their baby alone in a car for anywhere near 20 minutes is plain out wrong.

I also don't understand anyone who wouldn't make sure their children were safely seatbelted into the car on any journey. It takes a few seconds and could be the difference between life and death.

Justask

deemark wrote: »

Yes. It's a tragic story. However, if I changed my behaviour because of every single tragic story I've heard, my child would live in a padded cell, he wouldn't eat solid food, he wouldn't have baths, the dog would have been put down and we would never leave the house.

What happened to that poor family is a tragic freak accident. I know our instincts as parents are to protect, but it simply isn't possible to avoid all risks.

You stated in your above post you know it a risk.... Worth taking a risk like that with a baby??

I'd like to be more like you and less of a worrier and think 'that wouldnt happen to me' attitude, but it happens to people! So why not you or me! When it come to my child I will worry and WILL NOT take risks.

implausible

Justask wrote: »

You stated in your above post you know it a risk.... Worth taking a risk like that with a baby??

I'd like to be more like you and less of a worrier and think 'that wouldnt happen to me' attitude, but it happens to people! So why not you or me! When it come to my child I will worry and WILL NOT take risks.

Everything is a risk! That's the point I'm trying to make. Leaving the young fella in the car for a few minutes is a calculated risk. I'm sure someone could write a formula that could take into account my child's temperament, where I park, the safety of the area, the length of time I'd be gone and the one in millions chance that someone will lose control of their vehicle and crash into mine (an event that incidentally, I would have no control over i.e. it would still happen).

It's not that I'm a risk-taker, an uncaring parent or that I think it won't happen to me. I just think of the chances and conclude that it's highly unlikely to happen to me. An example of another risk would be the stairs. It is very likely that he would crawl to the top step and tumble the whole way down, injuring himself, so because this event is highly probable, I have stair-gates.

lonestargirl

Justask wrote: »

When it come to my child I will worry and WILL NOT take risks.

But you take risks every day, every car trip is a risk. Understandably we should do everything to minimise these risks, wear seatbelts, don't speed etc. Personally I would not leave my child in the car at the shop but I have left him in the car while bringing grocereis in - our driveway is about 100 feet long so I think he is safe. In the terrible example Fittle had the outcome could have been the same if the mother was sitting in the car when the neighbour hit.

Victor Meldrew

lonestargirl wrote: »

. In the terrible example Fittle had the outcome could have been the same if the mother was sitting in the car when the neighbour hit.

One of the chilling things about very young infants is just HOW vunerable they are in accidents. Basically the head is so heavy and the neck so fragile that, basically, very little in terms of an accident can be fatal. Nature and evolution have no answers for the car and forces it can generate.

The best you can do is buy a strong car, fit child seats and use them properly and drive carefully.

I still rib my mum about putting me in the boot in a carry cot in 1974/5 (Renault 4, no parcel shelf, so not a box, but NO crash resistance.)


We learn

I find it entirely amazing that people still go around with their kids standing up in the back seat of their cars. I notice it a lot more when I'm outside of Dublin, particularly in Wexford. On Sunday I saw a guy driving through wexford town with his toddler on his lap! And I really do believe that kids who "won't stay in their car seats" have been allowed to do this before.

With regards to leaving the child in the car, I agree for the most part that it is wrong. Leaving the car unattended for any extended period of time is not worth the risk. However, as someone pointed out already, you calculate these risks. I would run in to pay for petrol and not take my daughter out of the car. But I wouldn't go in to a supermarket to get milk say as it would take longer and I wouldn't be able to see the car. I would definitely leave her in the car in my driveway while I ran back in for my purse.

As parents it is our job to protect our children, you should take all necessary steps to ensure you are doing this effectively, but sometimes it's not possible to avoid accidents.

Fittle's example is horrific. However, these are the facts; the child was fully strapped into the car. If the mother was in the car at the time, the child would still not have survived. Now, if she had left the child in the car unstrapped, you could say that the death could have been prevented. But in this situation it was, unfortunately, just one of those things

Anyway, in relation to the OP, I genuinely believe that if you don't appropriately strap your child into the car, you do not care very much about them. Most of the time, the parents with the kids unstrapped - are wearing seatbelts themselves! that tells me who they care more about.

cynder

I remember the days of traveling in the boot of the car, riding in the trailer or in the boat attached to the car, we even road on top of all the hay bales on the tractor trailer and in the digger part of the tractor. Great fun to be had and im still here telling the tail. seems things have gone over board, i also remember being in the car with no seat belts also i along with many others are here to tell the tail.

All you need is one bump in the wrong place at the wrong time. who know when that will be, if it will ever be. I will not condemn a mother who has a child unbelted in the car, far from super gluing the seat belt sometimes there is not much that can be done (having to stop ever 50 meters to do up a seat belt). Must say my son is getting better and better at wearing his seat belt (thats down to his issues) i have to pull over less, as he takes it off less. I care more about him then i do my own life, yet i always wear my seat belt, not for safety reasons more like penalty point reasons and habit.


My husband had our 5 year old in the front seat on his lap steering the car (on a private stretch of road) for 2-3 mins, give another year or so and my now 11 year old will be taught how to drive on the same stretch of private road. my brother was taught to drive a car at 9 around the fields at home, yet 9 years old are supposed to be on a booster seat in the rear of the car!

Accidents can happen at anytime anywhere. when your card been called its been called.
*suppose im one of these fate believers, if its gonna happen, its gonna happen.

Ayla

grindelwald wrote: »

I remember the days of traveling in the boot of the car, riding in the trailer or in the boat attached to the car, we even road on top of all the hay bales on the tractor trailer and in the digger part of the tractor. Great fun to be had and im still here telling the tail. seems things have gone over board, i also remember being in the car with no seat belts also i along with many others are here to tell the tail.

That's great, but you're not going to try and say the risks now are the same as when they were when you were a kid, are you? There are tons more cars on the roads now, people drive much more carelessly (automatically) and at much greater speed. My husband also drove on the top of hay bales when he was a kid, but what was once a small Donegal road has become the main stretch now. I used to ride in the back of pick up trucks, but it's simply not the same now.

I will not condemn a mother who has a child unbelted in the car, far from super gluing the seat belt sometimes there is not much that can be done (having to stop ever 50 meters to do up a seat belt).

That's just plain lazy. My kids have never *once* touched their belts. If they did they'd get a serious talking to. And if they tried it again, by god I would tape/glue/seal the bloody thing until they get the point!