Car safety - What do you think ??

implausible

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep, my two were killed while strapped into their car seats. A truck hit them, they hadn't much chance. But you know something? I can live with myself because I know for a fact that I took steps to protect them to the best of my ability.

I will condemn parents who drive with their children unbelted. There is NO excuse for it. End of.

Oh god, so sorry to hear that, I can't even imagine.... It certainly puts this thread into perspective. I think there is no excuse for not belting kids up and if they're made do it from Day 1, it's a matter of being consistent and enforcing a rule, like you would to keep them away from a fire or other danger.

Grindelwald, your situation is obviously difficult, but is there no type of seatbelt or restraint for kids with your son's condition?

cynder

lonestargirl wrote: »

No it doesn't, one in two smokers will die of a smoking related disease. We all have a baseline risk for cancer and other diseases but our lifestyles can substantially add to that risk.



But that's what we are all saying. Some risk is always present but we should be doing what we can to minimise this risk.

No people are being judgemental, to reduce risk we should not even step in a car. just like we should not smoke or drink as everything causes cancer!

some can smoke till they are 90 and still be in tip top condition.

Ayla

grindelwald wrote: »

I ve spoken to a number of guards and all said if i ever got stopped to explain the situation each guard is different but they they themselves would be ok just as long as i re did the seat belt , if he were to take it off as soon as i set off then it would be ok (as long as it was fastened when they saw me drive off).

Well that's messed up.

Yes, I admit, I am lucky that my two children understand and respond to me when I tell them something. But you know what, if they were deaf, dumb & blind that would not stop me from ensuring they are safe in the car. If I had to tape them down I would.

If a kid is unsecured s/he is not only a risk to themselves in the car. They are also much more likely to affect the driver by sudden movements and unexpected actions. Then, if the worst occurs and an accident does happen, they are no better off then the sack of groceries in the back.

lonestargirl

grindelwald wrote: »

No people are being judgemental, to reduce risk we should not even step in a car.

Not one person in this thread has said not to get into a car, people have said they would take appropriate safety measures while driving.

Personally I think not belting children in is worse that not belting yourself in, children cannot make a judgement on the risk themselves.

cynder

deemark wrote: »

Grindelwald, your situation is obviously difficult, but is there no type of seatbelt or restraint for kids with your son's condition?

No but he is getting better, he NOW knows i get cross if he take the belt of, he is getting better and im sure soon enough he will have it on all the time. I wont tie him in as i am terrified that if i do and we crash in water i will no be able to get him out. His understanding is improving day by day. They say he may lead a normal adult life, but may not, depends how he responds to intervention. It slow going at the moment.

Ayla

Out of fairness grindlewad, if you land in water more than likely anyone who's not secured in will already be dead from the impact. The movies make it much prettier than it is.

cynder

lonestargirl wrote: »

Not one person in this thread has said not to get into a car, people have said they would take appropriate safety measures while driving.

Personally I think not belting children in is worse that not belting yourself in, children cannot make a judgement on the risk themselves.

Pity people were not as passionate about speeding, if you speed your just as bad as a parent who does not belt in their child, same as the ones who talk on a mobile phone.

reduce riskS

drive slower and dont talk on the phone.

how many parents have i seen talking on the phone with the kids in the car? too many more than i've seen with unbelted kids in the car.

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

Out of fairness grindlewad, if you land in water more than likely anyone who's not secured in will already be dead from the impact. The movies make it much prettier than it is.

I said tied in not, not belted in, i mean with a secure mechanism to prevent child from opening seat belt.

Ayla

This thread (for the nth time) is not about speeding. I for one (just to indulge you) have already stated that I don't speed, so you can stop saying that all the rest of us are being hypocritical.

So your options are (1) secure your child in by whatever means necessary, then battle the odds of getting him out in the event you land in water, or (2) don't secure him in safely so that he gets out of the seat and dies on impact of hitting the water. You're right, I'd go for #2 as well.

Orion

grindelwald wrote: »

No people are being judgemental, to reduce risk we should not even step in a car. just like we should not smoke or drink as everything causes cancer!

some can smoke till they are 90 and still be in tip top condition.

Mod Note:
Some people are being judgemental here - without naming names I'd like it to stop please. We can be rational without letting emotion rule the day.

However grindelwald, as a recovering 40-a-day smoker do not use the argument that some smokers are in tip-top condition. It is a high-risk activity with no benefits whatsoever. Driving car with a child unsecured cannot be compared to it. That's strawman crap at it's highest. Make a reasonable argument if you have a point but no more of that.

lonestargirl

grindelwald wrote: »

Pity people were not as passionate about speeding, if you speed your just as bad as a parent who does not belt in their child, same as the ones who talk on a mobile phone.

reduce riskS

drive slower and dont talk on the phone.

Absolutely, you should do all pratical things to reduce risks. For me, with regard to driving, that means

• seatbelts - for me, my passengers and my child
• don't speed
• don't talk on the phone
• check my tyres regularly and service my car
• don't drive after drinking
• don't drive when overtired

implausible

grindelwald wrote: »

No but he is getting better, he NOW knows i get cross if he take the belt of, he is getting better and im sure soon enough he will have it on all the time. I wont tie him in as i am terrified that if i do and we crash in water i will no be able to get him out. His understanding is improving day by day. They say he may lead a normal adult life, but may not, depends how he responds to intervention. It slow going at the moment.

Great to hear that his understanding is developing to the point that he will wear it, but it's still not safe in the meantime. Do you live by the sea or a river? What are the chances of actually crashing into water?

Moonbeam

A lot of the additional things that you can buy in some countries to keep kids in their seats are not safe either.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/child_safety/belts_buckles.html

cynder

deemark wrote: »

Great to hear that his understanding is developing to the point that he will wear it, but it's still not safe in the meantime. Do you live by the sea or a river? What are the chances of actually crashing into water?

my town route has a river/ few bridges country route lakes and river.

cynder

Releasing Buckles
How to stop children undoing their seat belts

Most children will eventually find they can undo their seat belt. So why don't they make seat belts that can't be undone by a child? This is because it must be possible to release the belt in an emergency, quickly and easily.

At worst this might be with a car inverted in a ditch at night, with access at arm's length through a window, or by a person in shock, unfamiliar with such equipment.
Any form of 'Chinese puzzle' is out. The catch cannot be hidden, must be obvious and accessible and must not require a large force to release it.

A different type of catch, perhaps a friend's seat, may not be undone as easily as one with which a child is familiar but this is usually only temporary. Given the right conditions they will soon get the knack.

Don't be tempted to make additional security attachments to the buckle. Anything like this will inevitably compromise safety and again tends to be only temporarily effective, presenting a new challenge rather than solving the problem. Diverting the child's attention
Rather than trying to persuade your child that the buckle cannot be undone, try persuading them that there is no advantage in doing so. These are techniques you might like to try.

[B]Show that the car does not go (or soon stops) with the belt undone.
The best time to start this approach is when you get a new seat (or perhaps when a car is changed). But remember to do it when there is no deadline for the journey.
If the child is old enough to really want to get somewhere, that's ideal. Try telling the child that unless the seat belt is fastened, they won't get to the party, zoo, etc.
A raised seat can also be some help, as it will increase your child's field of view.
A 'play tray' attachment can provide some distraction and may make the buckle less tempting. [/B]A child has to have understaning for this to work.

cynder

Moonbeam wrote: »

I am trying to work out if you are trolling or if you really are trying to make a point that you think that taking safety precautions with our kids is pointless?

It is to point out that there are 2 sides to every story. People are quick to make judgement without knowing the full facts. What my guy has is of low incidence 10 out of 1000 children have what he has or 1 in 100 children, whichever way you want to look at it.

Not trolling but annoyed at some very judgemental people. I would die for my kids. Their life is more important than my own. Yet i have driven the car with out my little on being strapped in. I have to collect kids from school, i have to use the car, i cant stop every 10 seconds to re-strap him in.

Orion

grindelwald wrote: »

It is to point out that there are 2 sides to every story.

Without mentioning cancer, smoking or speeding what is the other side to this from the OP?

"I've regularly see a dad collecting his 2 toddler boys and have one of them "driving" on his lap while the other is sitting or standing in the front seat."

or this - also from the OP

I've seen another Mum strapping 2 toddlers into the front seat (adult seatbelt around the two of them) while there's 2 seats in the back.

not to mention this - guess what ... from the OP

The guy picked his 2 kids and drove away while one of them was standing on the arm rest between the 2 front seats with his head sticking out the sun roof !!!!!!!!!!!!!

cynder

greengirl31 wrote: »

My little girl goes to a crèche that's in quite a large estate and I know the majority of the kids in there, live in the estate. Therefore, you would not have to drive on a "main" road to get from crèche to house but like I said it's quite a big estate so there's quite a lot of traffic.
Now when it comes to car seats and Kids being strapped in, I'm a very cautious. I don't even move out of my car space without my little girl being strapped in Now I know some say that might be going a little too far but the way I see it, I could be the best driver on the road but you don't know what's going to come around the corner. And for the sake of a few seconds, is it really worth the risk!!
Anyway, when I'm dropping off or picking up my little girl I'm horrified by some of the things I see. I've regularly see a dad collecting his 2 toddler boys and have one of them "driving" on his lap while the other is sitting or standing in the front seat. I've seen another Mum strapping 2 toddlers into the front seat (adult seatbelt around the two of them) while there's 2 seats in the back. Kids standing in the back seats but yesterday took the biscuit. The guy picked his 2 kids and drove away while one of them was standing on the arm rest between the 2 front seats with his head sticking out the sun roof !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Am I way over the top when it comes to car safety or does anyone else think this is appalling ????

Its in an estate, i dont see the harm in it.

whats the crash rate in estates at the moment? anyone know the death rates from car crashes in estates?

we did a lot worse as kids! I had my head out the sun roof loads of times as a kid as did many other people. I recon the person is talking about this going on in the estate. Where speed is low, people are aware kids are around so dont speed. they dont say it takes place on a main road.

Some parents allow their kids the freedom they had as a kid (and boy it was so much fun) , i even said my own husband had our son on his lap steering the car (be it on a private road), perhaps they have what my son has, perhaps they have adhd, perhaps the kids are autistic, perhaps they are at their wits and need a little help.

My son had times where he was standing in his seat, , i cannot stop every 10 seconds to strap him in. perhaps the parents are having the same difficulties.

The people the OP seems to be talking about obviously feel the kids are safe. if anything ever happens on their own head be it. They must have checked out the road death statistics in estates and came to the conclusion that it would be more dangerous walking.

Orion

grindelwald: Now I'm starting to believe you actually are trolling. What we did as kids is irrelevant. Times have changed. Driving in an estate is no safer than in the wilds. In fact more accidents happen within a mile of the home and mainly because of the "sure I know this road" attitude.

Now I would like you to answer my last post and provide the 'other side of the story' to the OP's observations. If you decide not to then do not post on this thread anymore.

Lola92

grindelwald wrote: »

Its in an estate, i dont see the harm in it.

whats the crash rate in estates at the moment? anyone know the death rates from car crashes in estates?


The people the OP seems to be talking about obviously feel the kids are safe. if anything ever happens on their own head be it. They must have checked out the road death statistics in estates and came to the conclusion that it would be more dangerous walking.

I would imagine serious road accidents in residential estates are not exactly common place. I have no statistics on the subject though.

I can see why this point is a grey issue. People tend to think of their home estate as a fairly safe place for their children to play, walk etc. Most of the time traffic through these type of areas would be relatively slow.

However, you are still driving on a road with other cars and no matter how safe and careful your own driving, you can never control or predict the actions of others in such situations.

Say a *boy racer comes tearing around the corner at high speed? And say just that once you have your child steering on your lap?

The way I see it is as others have said - you can't eliminate all risk, to say you could would be plain ridiculous, but you can minimalise them by taking steps such as seating your child in an appropriate child seat, driving responsibly within speed limit, obeying traffic laws etc.

*sorry gross generalisation here I realise not all young male drivers are like this.

You're either really naive or really really stupid.

This will be my final post on the matter.

1. You are naive if you believe that these parents strap their children in before they leave the estate to join the main road. You are also naive if you believe they have checked statistics and come to an informed decision.

2. Even if they are dispicable enough to not care about their own children. A child standing in the car is a distraction. Distractions while driving cause accidents, maybe their child will be ok. But maybe, because of their selfish stupidity, the child they knock down because they were distracted will not.

Justask

Deleted User wrote: »

You're either really naive or really really stupid.

This will be my final post on the matter.

1. You are naive if you believe that these parents strap their children in before they leave the estate to join the main road. You are also naive if you believe they have checked statistics and come to an informed decision.

2. Even if they are dispicable enough to not care about their own children. A child standing in the car is a distraction. Distractions while driving cause accidents, maybe their child will be ok. But maybe, because of their selfish stupidity, the child they knock down because they were distracted will not.

12345678910 and breath

cynder

Deleted User wrote: »

You're either really naive or really really stupid.

This will be my final post on the matter.

1. You are naive if you believe that these parents strap their children in before they leave the estate to join the main road. You are also naive if you believe they have checked statistics and come to an informed decision.

2. Even if they are dispicable enough to not care about their own children. A child standing in the car is a distraction. Distractions while driving cause accidents, maybe their child will be ok. But maybe, because of their selfish stupidity,the child they knock down because they were distracted will not.[/QUOTE]

You took it literally I doubt very much they did, i dont know, i dont know them from adam, and neither do you, they have every right to defend their actions, but does not seem they are on boards to be able too! pity i would have like to have heard it. But are you cant really think the parents dont care, they just have a different way of showing it than you. a different parenting stlye.


Moderator how can i give the other side to the story? i am not the one the originals poster was talking about, i do not know them. i can however give my side to MY story so if they pass a car on the motorway or in town with a child without a seatbelt on they may not think the parent is a BAD PARENT.


I can only say that because of my sons disability keeping a seat belt on him 100% of the time has been unsuccessful. I have tried and will keep trying to have him securely seated in the car, we have made hugh progress, for people to be so judgemental and call it bad parenting when they have never in thier lives experienced something like this is unfathomable, they may live in a world where their kids can understand and obey instructions yet they do not comprehend that kids with certain issues will not and it makes life very difficult for said parents, no one is perfect, there is no perfect parent.

Calling me a bad parent because my son is able to undo his seatbelt and i cant stop in a safe place to re-do it is unjustified.

People will continue to live in their on little world not realising that others may not have it like they do, if a gaurd can understand it why cant they?

silverharp

btw we have been doing it all wrong, rear facing is better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8mFsXNXOLw

How Strange

I was involved in 2 incidents where other vehicles drove into me from behind. I was stopped with the handbrake pulled up and safety belt on in stationery traffic. The first time the driver hit me at about 10kph so I was only lightly shunted forward. The second time I'd say he was doing 50kph, I bumped my head and was seeing stars. Now I've got whiplash and a myriad of neck, shoulder and back problems as a result of the
whiplash.

I've spent a small fortune in massage and physio in the past (and will continue to for years) and have a constant level of discomfort and sometimes pain.

Accidents happen when we least expect them and even the most benign incident can cause injuries. For that reason and because I am aware how easily it can happen no child travels in my car unless they're appropriately secured with seats and belts. If they take the belt off I pull over and turn the engine off.

greengirl31

OP here again ...

Grinwald, I wouldn't say you come under the category of the examples given in my original post as you do try to keep your son strapped in but I would disagree with some of the points you have made. When I was growing up, car seats were not the norm and more often than not 4 or 5 of us were wedged into the back of a corolla, possibly with the top of a silvercross pram with a baby in it lying across the back. But 30 years ago alot of things were different. The roads weren't so good that you could get from Dublin to Cork for example in 2.5 hrs. There were no seat belts in the back and we simply didn't know any better (same could be said for smoking but that's a whole other thread) Now though, statistics have proven that children need to be in an appropriate child restraint, not for our inconvenience but for their safety. And apart from anything else it's the LAW !!!!!!

Re my original post, This is a busy estate with quite alot of traffic. Granted, the traffic is generally slow but there is a road that goes through it that goes from one main road to another and it's also a bus route so it's a busy road and the traffic would probably be a bit faster than it would be around the houses if you know what I mean. The crèche is just off this through road and the majority of the houses are on the other side so most would have to drive on this road for part of their journey. My point is, no matter how slow you are driving with your child on your lap or sticking out the sun roof, you cannot take into the actions of other drivers - the bus could swerve to avoid a dog, the milk truck could loose control or as another poster said, a boy racer could come flying down the hill or it could be as simple as a little fender bender which would do little or no damage to me or you but could be fatal to a small child.

I know there are risks every day as soon as we get out of bed never mind go out in the car, and sometimes no matter what we do something tragic will happen. But I think, we as parents need to lead by example. I never pull off without having my belt on cause I feel like I'd fall out of the car !! (I know that wouldn't happen but I don't feel comfortable without it on). I never let my little girl travel without being strapped in and thankfully she never questions it. I don't ever think that allowing a child travel in the ways I described in my OP as a calculated risk - I think it's downright irresponsible !!!

littlebug

A bit late getting to this thread but anyhoo..

I'm a stickler for seat belts having seen my first boyfriend laid out in a coffin at the age of 18 after having gone through the windscreen head first into a stone wall The other guy with the seatbelt on survived the crash. I've never sat in a car without a seatbelt on since then and it drives me nuts to see the risks some people take.

I can't add anymore to what's been said about kids without belts etc but I would like to add that I think it's about much much more than ensuring their safety now. Sure there mightn't be much risk of a crash in an estate or on the 5 minute drive home from school BUT it's not just about that. it's about instilling habits that will last a lifetime. It's about getting your kids to a point where putting a seatbelt on and keeping it on are as automatic as closing the car door and that habit staying with them for life.
Mine put their own belts on now.. if I so much as reverse the car 1 foot out the driveway they shout "WAITTTT" if their belts aren't clipped in yet. Job done:cool:.. hopefully (but I'll continue to check and nag as long as they're under my care).

cynder

greengirl31 wrote: »

OP here again ...

Grinwald, I wouldn't say you come under the category of the examples given in my original post as you do try to keep your son strapped in but I would disagree with some of the points you have made. When I was growing up, car seats were not the norm and more often than not 4 or 5 of us were wedged into the back of a corolla, possibly with the top of a silvercross pram with a baby in it lying across the back. But 30 years ago alot of things were different. The roads weren't so good that you could get from Dublin to Cork for example in 2.5 hrs. There were no seat belts in the back and we simply didn't know any better (same could be said for smoking but that's a whole other thread) Now though, statistics have proven that children need to be in an appropriate child restraint, not for our inconvenience but for their safety. And apart from anything else it's the LAW !!!!!!

Re my original post, This is a busy estate with quite alot of traffic. Granted, the traffic is generally slow but there is a road that goes through it that goes from one main road to another and it's also a bus route so it's a busy road and the traffic would probably be a bit faster than it would be around the houses if you know what I mean. The crèche is just off this through road and the majority of the houses are on the other side so most would have to drive on this road for part of their journey. My point is, no matter how slow you are driving with your child on your lap or sticking out the sun roof, you cannot take into the actions of other drivers - the bus could swerve to avoid a dog, the milk truck could loose control or as another poster said, a boy racer could come flying down the hill or it could be as simple as a little fender bender which would do little or no damage to me or you but could be fatal to a small child.

I know there are risks every day as soon as we get out of bed never mind go out in the car, and sometimes no matter what we do something tragic will happen. But I think, we as parents need to lead by example. I never pull off without having my belt on cause I feel like I'd fall out of the car !! (I know that wouldn't happen but I don't feel comfortable without it on). I never let my little girl travel without being strapped in and thankfully she never questions it. I don't ever think that allowing a child travel in the ways I described in my OP as a calculated risk - I think it's downright irresponsible !!!

Thanks for that,

Yes it is law, but hundreds of thousands of people each day decide if they want to break the law, they pick n choose which law they are willing to break, be it speeding or talking on the phone, Im not advocating breaking the law, I have no criminal record, never been arrested and have no penalty points. I also think that a person who speeds/talks on the phone is just as irresponsible, i would not call them a bad parent, were not perfect and never will be, some people will not see any danger, or think it wont happen to me.


Cars seats a a great safety feature, if used and fitted correctly at the moment 3 of of 4 are not (rsa) are the parents as irresponsible or a bad parent? an ill fitting car seat is as bad as not being in one. I believe that buses and taxis still dont have car seats in them and are not required to by law, would it be irresponsible to use a bus or taxi because of this or would you not see the danger and take the chance, leaving a under 3 year old unrestrained in the back seat? over 3 they have to use an adult seat belt, i also believe that classic cars that have no rear seat belts are also permitted to carry children over 3 in the back seat unrestrained.



I believe i would be done for dangerous driving if i were to stop every 5 meters to strap in my 4 year old son. I strap my boys in as soon as they get in the car, and thankfully my little guy is getting better and better at keeping his on.

implausible

grindelwald wrote: »

my town route has a river/ few bridges country route lakes and river.

Ok, so there is a slightly increased risk of ending up in water then. But, your chances of being involved in ANY collision are far greater than the chances of ending up in deep water, unable to release a child from a seat belt. It seems to me that you are justifying the non-wearing of a seatbelt with an unlikely scenario.

implausible

littlebug wrote: »

I think it's about much much more than ensuring their safety now. Sure there mightn't be much risk of a crash in an estate or on the 5 minute drive home from school BUT it's not just about that. it's about instilling habits that will last a lifetime. It's about getting your kids to a point where putting a seatbelt on and keeping it on are as automatic as closing the car door and that habit staying with them for life.

You've said exactly what I was going to! You have to be consistent with kids. You cannot expect a three year old to assess the difference in risk of being in their housing estate (no belt) and of being on the motorway ("ok, I'll wear my belt now"). As a parent, it's up to you to do this and you do the very best for them by getting them into habits that will become second nature to them and protect them in future.