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What is/isn't deductible from a deposit?

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  • 28-06-2011 1:36pm
    #1
    Miguel_Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭


    I'm currently in dispute with my ex-landlord over several items which he is attempting to deduct from my deposit. I've tried to get on to threshold but haven't been able to get an answer from them yet.

    The main issue is a carpet. Now stupidly we didn't take photos of the damage to the carpet when we moved in (which was quite obvious) but we didn't add an extra damage to it so are refusing to pay.

    The other items which the landlord wants money for are:

    1. Cleaning. - The house was cleaned by myself before I left however the landlord is trying to charge us for extra cleaning. Am I right in thinking this falls under general wear/tear? Any cleaning that was done by them was small, hoovering, dusting etc - no stains or anything nasty to be removed.

    2. Chimney. - We forgot to empty the ashes from the grate. They also claim something was lodged in the chimney and they had to get a chimney sweep out. Whatever was lodged there was not done by us and must have been there prior to our moving in.

    3. Freezer in cupboard not defrosted. Again something that was forgotten, all that would have been required is for it to be defrosted and given a light clean.

    4. A duvet was in the house when we moved in. We put it in the attic. I do think that another duvet was left up there too by a person who lived there during my tenancy and moved on. The want us to pay for a run to the dump with these and "other bits and bobs". What the bits and bobs are they have not said.

    5. Bathroom ceiling. The bathroom is badly ventilated and there was mould on the ceiling. Beyond leaving the window open there is nothing else we could do - again this is general wear and tear I presume.

    6. The big one is the carpet. The living-room carpet was obviously stained when we moved in. The carpet I estimate was about 5 years old at that stage and we lived there for 2.5 years extra. We didn't add any stains to it but foolishly didn't take photos of it when we moved in.

    Obviously the carpet is the big issue as if we did damage it then that's a payment. But are the other things even deductible from a deposit or do they fall under general wear and tear.

    The house was kept in a good condition and the one or two things that were damaged we pointed out to them and have no issue in paying for. But I think they're chancing their arm looking for money for other things too.

    Any thoughts?


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    #2
    PrincessPixie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭PrincessPixie


    sounds like their trying to take the puddle out of you, you really need to get hold of threshold, from what you say the majority of what you listed comes under wear and tear


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    #3
    Miguel_Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    PrincessPixie wrote: »
    sounds like their trying to take the puddle out of you, you really need to get hold of threshold, from what you say the majority of what you listed comes under wear and tear

    Thanks. I've made an appointment with Threshold, hoping they'll help sort it out.


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    #4
    oflahero
    Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭oflahero


    Did you sign a lease? I've often seen little paragraphs in leases slyly trying to get around the 'normal wear and tear' provision in the RT Act. For example, our lease requires 'professional cleaning' of the carpets before we move out, apparently - a cast-iron way of getting some kind of money out of us.


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    #5
    Gandalph
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭Gandalph


    Was it through the L/L or an agency? Normally a struggling L/L will try shaft you for everything. If your confident of your standing then just give the L/L written notice of reporting him to the PRTB if he doesnt comply with giving back the deposit.


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    #6
    Miguel_Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    oflahero wrote: »
    Did you sign a lease? I've often seen little paragraphs in leases slyly trying to get around the 'normal wear and tear' provision in the RT Act. For example, our lease requires 'professional cleaning' of the carpets before we move out, apparently - a cast-iron way of getting some kind of money out of us.

    We did sign a lease. There were no sneaky clauses like that in it though.
    Gandalph wrote: »
    Was it through the L/L or an agency? Normally a struggling L/L will try shaft you for everything. If your confident of your standing then just give the L/L written notice of reporting him to the PRTB if he doesnt comply with giving back the deposit.

    Just through the landlord.

    I've already emailed saying that we will go to the PRTB if it isn't resolved to our satisfaction. I've taken on board advise from Threshold and have advised the landlord as much.

    Thanks for the replies.


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    #7
    convert
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭convert


    Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »
    I've taken on board advise from Threshold and have advised the landlord as much.

    Do you mind me asking what Threshold advised in regard to the above issues? Just curious, as I'll be renting again soon enough and it's always handy to know these things before signing a lease (not least because I'll know what to look for in the lease, just incase there are any sneaky clauses).


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    #8
    Miguel_Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    convert wrote: »
    Do you mind me asking what Threshold advised in regard to the above issues? Just curious, as I'll be renting again soon enough and it's always handy to know these things before signing a lease (not least because I'll know what to look for in the lease, just incase there are any sneaky clauses).

    No problem. They didn't comment on everything and asked us to wait for a reply from the landlord before I met with them to discuss it all.

    However Threshold did say that light cleaning of the house that doesn't involve the landlord having to hire in a cleaning company is not deductible from a lease. They said it falls under general wear and tear. As long the property has been cleaned and you haven't left it in a state then it falls under wear and tear.

    Mould on the bathroom ceiling they emphatically said was not our responsibility and was in fact a health hazard.

    The carpet they said was a trickier issue as we didn't have any photographs of it when we moved in and we didn't have any written record of us raising it with the landlord. So the advice is - anything wrong raise it or take photos no matter how nice and reasonable your landlord seems.

    Our landlord has finally seen sense and is returning our deposit except for the few small bits that we owe for (which we pointed out to him when we left).


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    #9
    convert
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭convert


    Thanks for that! Glad your landlord has finally seen sense and that it's all worked out for you!


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    #10
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    If there was a ventilation facility in the bathroom and you did not operate it, then there is no health hazard. The mould is a problem that you caused if you did not do this. If all that was required was a defrost and light clean, then it would have been simple for you to do it before moving out.

    The house really should be in the state it was in when you moved in, when you moved out. It should be clean enough to let after any repairs for wear and tear are done. If you left ashes in the grate, I would have to say you were definitely well below this threshold.

    in general, houses aren't left in this clean state and landlords pay back deposit anyway. But this is the standard that a house should be left in.


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    #11
    Miguel_Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    If there was a ventilation facility in the bathroom and you did not operate it, then there is no health hazard. The mould is a problem that you caused if you did not do this.

    There wasn't. If you read my post I already said that beyond leaving the bathroom window there was nothing else we could do. If there was a ventilation facility there then I wouldn't have said that, would I?

    Also I had previously cleaned all the mould off the bathroom ceiling while I was living there. Before we moved out the landlord came in and without removing any of the mould simply painted over it. Within a few days the mould was beginning to show through again.
    If all that was required was a defrost and light clean, then it would have been simple for you to do it before moving out.

    Yes, however if you read my post you'll see it was something that was simply overlooked. This happened as it is hidden away under the stairs and hadn't been used for several months. It wasn't left deliberately or out of laziness. It definitely wouldn't have taken long to do and therefore is not deposit deductible.

    I personally cleaned the house before leaving and it was cleaned properly except for the few things mentioned. How much do you think a landlord should deduct for defrosting a fridge and taking out some ashes? To be honest I'm fecked if I'm giving someone a few hundred euro to defrost a freezer and take out the ashes.

    The landlord has acknowledged now that the only damage was the things we pointed out and will be returning the rest of our deposit.


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    #12
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »
    Yes, however if you read my post you'll see it was something that was simply overlooked. This happened as it is hidden away under the stairs and hadn't been used for several months. It wasn't left deliberately or out of laziness. It definitely wouldn't have taken long to do and therefore is not deposit deductible.

    I personally cleaned the house before leaving and it was cleaned properly except for the few things mentioned.
    Well, if a garage repaired your car and gave it back to you with some dirt on it, would you care that it was simply forgotten?

    Glad it worked out for you though, sounds like threshold helped too?


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    #13
    Miguel_Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    Tea drinker wrote: »
    Glad it worked out for you though, sounds like threshold helped too?

    They just advised me on what is and what isn't deductible from a deposit.

    The fact that I didn't just roll over and let the landlord keep my money is what did it I think. We hadn't damaged the things that the landlord said and they knew it.


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    #14
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    I am glad you got your deposit back and the issue resolved.

    A window is adequate ventilation in a bathroom. It may not be good or what you would ideally want, but it is perfectly adequate.

    The problem from the landlord's point of view is that when a premises is left dirty by oversight or otherwise, someone else has to go out and clean the places up before it is let again. This is a real extra cost. Waste disposal is equally a real extra cost, even for what seems a small amount of waste. The fact that it was an oversight on your part does not change the fact that this is going to cost the landlord money. The margins in renting residential property are no great shakes.


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    #15
    Miguel_Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    I am glad you got your deposit back and the issue resolved.

    A window is adequate ventilation in a bathroom. It may not be good or what you would ideally want, but it is perfectly adequate.

    We were happy with it. However we were not going to pay for the bathroom to be repainted when we did all we could, including cleaning the mould off before. Also the landlord didn't even offer to let us do this but rather announced they were painting it and then tried to charge us afterwards saying it was our fault there was mould there. I was having none of that.
    The problem from the landlord's point of view is that when a premises is left dirty by oversight or otherwise, someone else has to go out and clean the places up before it is let again. This is a real extra cost. Waste disposal is equally a real extra cost, even for what seems a small amount of waste. The fact that it was an oversight on your part does not change the fact that this is going to cost the landlord money. The margins in renting residential property are no great shakes.

    And some of our deposit is going towards waste disposal etc. It was the amount they tried to take off us for these things and the things they were falsely blaming us for that was the issue.


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