20 acres + meadow to give away in Palmerston, Co.Dublin

Rinker

Just wondering if theres anyone willing to cut and take away at least 20 acres of meadow grass from close to the old M50 toll bridge in Palmerston. It's owned by the county council who manage it for biodiversity but they but don't have the machinery to cut and bale the grass.
It used to be taken away by local farmers (fairly scarce inside the M50) but haven't been able to get anyone to take it so far this year. Seems very clean. Can upload photos if required

Muckit

yep I'I take it. I'I be up with the mower in the morning

rs8

make sure you bring money for the toll muckit

Muckit

rs8 wrote: »

make sure you bring money for the toll muckit

No silly, I've an Etag on the windscreen of the tractor

TT09

Why did they change the name to palmerston?

Tora Bora

Muckit wrote: »

yep I'I take it. I'I be up with the mower in the morning

Hauled by a piebald tractor no doubt.:D Do ya hear me now, boss.;)

Rinker

TT09 wrote: »

Why did they change the name to palmerston?

There had always been a debate as to the proper name. There was a plebiscite last year to decide the matter and Palmerston won out.

Birdnuts

Rinker wrote: »

There had always been a debate as to the proper name. There was a plebiscite last year to decide the matter and Palmerston won out.

Would the horsey crowd in the area not do the job for you??

reilig

Birdnuts wrote: »

Would the horsey crowd in the area not do the job for you??

What about some of the animal sanctuaries around the city. Surely some of them would be interested in getting free fodder for the winter.

Rinker

reilig wrote: »

What about some of the animal sanctuaries around the city. Surely some of them would be interested in getting free fodder for the winter.

Good suggestion. I'll call them in the morning but they'd probably have to pay someone to cut and bale the meadow so it isn't exactly free fodder for them.

Muckit

Rinker wrote: »

Good suggestion. I'll call them in the morning but they'd probably have to pay someone to cut and bale the meadow so it isn't exactly free fodder for them.

Nor would it be free fodder for any farmer.

More to the point Rinker, well intentioned as you may be, I really don't see how it's your place to be coming onto a public forum offering meadow to farmers that's not your own. There's certain protocol arounds these things.

Oldtree

If they are managing it for biodiversity, why are they cutting it at all, rather than letting it go wild. Cutting meadows is part of a industrial management regieme.

Rinker

Muckit wrote: »

Nor would it be free fodder for any farmer.

More to the point Rinker, well intentioned as you may be, I really don't see how it's your place to be coming onto a public forum offering meadow to farmers that's not your own. There's certain protocol arounds these things.

I work for the Parks Department and manage these lands. I haven't got the budget to hire in contractors to cut these meadows so I'm trying other options to get it done.

Rinker

Oldtree wrote: »

If they are managing it for biodiversity, why are they cutting it at all, rather than letting it go wild

.

If its let grow wild it just becomes rank grassland totally dominated by grass with very few other species of plants. By taking off this grass you are reducing the fertility and allowing more species of wildflowers to compete. Having more species of plants leads to more food and habitats for insects, which in turn feed more species of birds and so on up the food chain.
The idea is to replicate traditional agricultural practices in meadows which our native wildlife has adapted to.

Cutting meadows is part of a industrial management regieme.[/QUOTE

]

Never knew there was such a thing as industrial management regeimes for meadows.

Oldtree

Agricultural practices sums it up really. We live in a managed landscape that is not natural. I think it is idealistic to believe in the rosetinted view of a natural meadow that has the asthetic of pretty wildflowers.

I initially turned over my back garden to wildness with some intervention, and then a number of acres of farmland to wildness. I am watching how this develops am have been at it since 2004. Biodiversity is not just about the pretty plants. My back garden alone came up with 17 types of grass and numerous other wild plants, insects and animals. I stopped cutting it after 2 years as a lot of insects and other animals are killed by that process, and where do the insects live in the winter.

An indicator of how well this approach is doing is the amount of spiders that frequent the thatch during the winter and the number of resident birds. There is also a semi natural woodland being allowed to develop along the same lines. Have spoken to NPW and forestry about the idea and they were blown away by it.

ScouseMouse

Hiya rinker.

Sent you a pm.

May have you sorted.

ScouseMouse

Rinker wrote: »

There had always been a debate as to the proper name. There was a plebiscite last year to decide the matter and Palmerston won out.

But it didnt win. Not enough people voted to make the change. Gus was running round like a busy little bee trying to get people to bother.

Rinker

Oldtree wrote: »

Agricultural practices sums it up really. We live in a managed landscape that is not natural. I think it is idealistic to believe in the rosetinted view of a natural meadow that has the asthetic of pretty wildflowers.

I initially turned over my back garden to wildness with some intervention, and then a number of acres of farmland to wildness. I am watching how this develops am have been at it since 2004. Biodiversity is not just about the pretty plants. My back garden alone came up with 17 types of grass and numerous other wild plants, insects and animals. I stopped cutting it after 2 years as a lot of insects and other animals are killed by that process, and where do the insects live in the winter.

An indicator of how well this approach is doing is the amount of spiders that frequent the thatch during the winter and the number of resident birds. There is also a semi natural woodland being allowed to develop along the same lines. Have spoken to NPW and forestry about the idea and they were blown away by it.

Sounds like a great place. I suspect we're using different methods to achieve the same outcome. Before we started managing the meadows they had been let grow wild for about 20 years. It was rank grassland with very low species diversity. In 4 years of management based on traditional farming practices we have dramatically increased the biodiversity. In a recent survey organised by the National Biodiversity Data Centre the area was found to have over 10 times the number of species per hectare as Killarney National Park.
By reducing the fertility of meadows (taking away the grass for hay) you give many more species a competitive chance and more species = more food, habitats etc.
Our methods were initially criticised by many local nature enthusiasts who had rose-tinted glasses about naturalness and didn't see the measurable benefits of managed landscapes and pretty wildflowers.;)

BTW Think I've got a taker for the grass. Thanks for the comments.

ScouseMouse

Rinker wrote: »

BTW Think I've got a taker for the grass. Thanks for the comments.

Just curious, was it my farmer?

Oldtree

I am looking at it as a biosphere rather than biodiversity, from the soil upwards. No more soil poaching, no more shooting, no fertiliser, no insecticides, etc if you get my drift. My view of the countryside in general is one of a large scale monoculture within which I am allowing an oasis to emerge.

The 30 acres is a very diverse place where one of the management aims is minimun intervention.

It is very interesting to note the ebb and flow of plants and related fauna over the years along with my understanding that the carbon sequestered by maturing meadows is upwards of 3 tonnes per hectar per year!

Guess how old the ash tree (within my boundry) in the attached photo is???

Forgot to say that my view of a managed meadow (i'm not saying its wrong) is that it is similar to a bird feeder. The bird population is artifical and needs to be fed all year round to maintain the population! I am striving for a more natural progression of a self sustaining continuum.

Muckit

May the force be with you

Birdnuts

Rinker wrote: »

Sounds like a great place. I suspect we're using different methods to achieve the same outcome. Before we started managing the meadows they had been let grow wild for about 20 years. It was rank grassland with very low species diversity. In 4 years of management based on traditional farming practices we have dramatically increased the biodiversity. In a recent survey organised by the National Biodiversity Data Centre the area was found to have over 10 times the number of species per hectare as Killarney National Park.
By reducing the fertility of meadows (taking away the grass for hay) you give many more species a competitive chance and more species = more food, habitats etc.
Our methods were initially criticised by many local nature enthusiasts who had rose-tinted glasses about naturalness and didn't see the measurable benefits of managed landscapes and pretty wildflowers.;)

BTW Think I've got a taker for the grass. Thanks for the comments.

Great to here such an enlightend view of nature and farming - the good news is that the post- 2013 CAP appears to share your visions on many levels:)

Birdnuts

Oldtree wrote: »

I am looking at it as a biosphere rather than biodiversity, from the soil upwards. No more soil poaching, no more shooting, no fertiliser, no insecticides, etc if you get my drift. My view of the countryside in general is one of a large scale monoculture within which I am allowing an oasis to emerge.

The 30 acres is a very diverse place where one of the management aims is minimun intervention.

It is very interesting to note the ebb and flow of plants and related fauna over the years along with my understanding that the carbon sequestered by maturing meadows is upwards of 3 tonnes per hectar per year!

Guess how old the ash tree (within my boundry) in the attached photo is???

Forgot to say that my view of a managed meadow (i'm not saying its wrong) is that it is similar to a bird feeder. The bird population is artifical and needs to be fed all year round to maintain the population! I am striving for a more natural progression of a self sustaining continuum.

There is room for both visions - many species of flora and fauna across Europe depend on traditional farming methods such as the mangement of old meadows, coppicing of woodland etc.

Indeed its beleived that biodiversity in Ireland reached its height shortly after the first farmers arrived here 3-5 thousand years ago.:)

Oldtree

Absolutely! Room for everything. But I'm not sure about the height of biodiversity being thousands of years ago, wasn't Ireland mostly forest then?

I have a lapsed copice, exposed limestone pavement, meadows that are under 2 foot of water in winter, meadows that don't flood, Hazel scrub, woodland, lovely

I feed the birdies in the back garden, can't help it. Keeps the kestral happy too.

Muckit

David..... David Attenborough is that you ? I can't see you for the vegetation....

Birdnuts

Oldtree wrote: »

Absolutely! Room for everything. But I'm not sure about the height of biodiversity being thousands of years ago, wasn't Ireland mostly forest then?

.

I was pointing out that after the first farmers arrived Ireland had just the right mix of wilderness and farmland that allowed biodiversity to reach its height:)

Oldtree

Muckit wrote: »

David..... David Attenborough is that you ? I can't see you for the vegetation....

Not suppose to guess at my name, you naughty naughty boy/girl!!!
All that matters is I can see you!

Birdnuts, where did you get that nugget of info?

Birdnuts

Oldtree wrote: »

!

Birdnuts, where did you get that nugget of info?

Published info from pollen studies using bog cores to go back in time, plus archeological evidence from middens etc.:). I would imagine Ireland was then something like what the Transylvania/Carpathian region in Eastern Europe is today:cool:

Oldtree

Would be delighted for pointers to pollen studies. So how does that tell us about the rest of the biosphere, insects, etc?;)

Birdnuts

Oldtree wrote: »

Would be delighted for pointers to pollen studies. So how does that tell us about the rest of the biosphere, insects, etc?;)

They are published in various scientific journals such as The Proceedings of the Royal Irish Academy. Such information is probably easier digested for the layman if you visit certain interpretive centres around the country such as the Ceide Fields in North Mayo or the Bog centre near Rathangan in Co. Kildare.


PS: Sediment cores from lakes are also used to gain a picture of this period and can give a good snapshot of all types of species present including mollusks, hard cased insects etc.

Oldtree

Not a layman sweetie, thats why I'm interested in the detail.