The 'Drug Pusher': An Urban Myth?

Sunnyisland

Super Infinity wrote: »

Ah come on now, this is just flippin nonsense. "so called drug lords"? Are you mad? Individuals out there earn many millions from drugs, this is a known fact.

"so called drug lords"? Are you now saying that you don't believe in drug lords? I think you are taking the idea of "the naive masses" a little too far. Say Paul Williams is lame all you want, but denying that people earn millions from drugs is both wrong and senseless. It's not all made up.

I am saying that paul williams with his over hype reporting has made him millions.

Yes of course there are drug lords who make millions, as i have said earlier i see it everyday,They have lots of material wealth that they flaunt around the area,maybe I posted that wrong sorry about that.:)

Sunnyisland

dsmythy wrote: »

The "pushers" just let drug riddled kids introduce it to other kids instead.

Thats not quite right,

A lot of people like smoking weed and cannabis and will go out of there way to purchase it, unless your talking about heroin & crack which can be a different game altogether.

RussellTuring

Seachmall wrote: »

I was about 18 at the time, I actually took down the number with the intent of calling him sometime. I'm not sure why I didn't take it, I regretted not trying it the morning after. It was only a couple of days later I realized he completely manipulated me and deleted his number.

To be honest, it sounds like you had second thoughts about whether or not you wanted to take it and eventually decided you didn't. Why is it so hard to accept the fact that you were curious but in the end didn't want it? I can tell you as someone who knows a few drug dealers, none of them want to waste their time talking to people and building up a client base: they want to get rid of the drugs and get money.

Seachmall

RussellTuring wrote: »

To be honest, it sounds like you had second thoughts about whether or not you wanted to take it and eventually decided you didn't. Why is it so hard to accept the fact that you were curious but in the end didn't want it?

Oh yeah, I had second thoughts and ultimately didn't take any or give him a call but if he approached 20 people that night and 5 take it then that's a job well done.

I'd say you are right in that you can't convince someone who is set against doing drugs to take drugs but you can pick out the more vulnerable or curious ones and make them customers. That's what pushers do, they manipulate those that can be manipulated (the same as cults and such groups).

R P McMurphy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x_TE4KTre8

flutterflye

Never come across a drug pusher in my life.

Any drugs I've taken came from people I knew, who I either asked, or who offered in a 'would you like tea' sort of way.

tayto lover

realies wrote: »

Thats not quite right,

A lot of people like smoking weed and cannabis and will go out of there way to purchase it, unless your talking about heroin & crack which can be a different game altogether.

Larry Dunne was testament to that by giving heroin to his own children and getting them addicted so that they would sell for him. Lovely man.

Joe10000

I have never met a pusher as far as I know but I suppose a dealer you didnt know offering you some gear could be classed a pusher.

RussellTuring

Seachmall wrote: »

Oh yeah, I had second thoughts and ultimately didn't take any or give him a call but if he approached 20 people that night and 5 take it then that's a job well done.

I'd say you are right in that you can't convince someone who is set against doing drugs to take drugs but you can pick out the more vulnerable or curious ones and make them customers. That's what pushers do, they manipulate those that can be manipulated (the same as cults and such groups).

I suppose it comes down to how much you expect people to be responsible for their own actions. In this case, I would say that if they do just happen to find someone who is buying the drugs for their first time(which is not very likely, in my opinion), then it is just that they are fulfilling a desire of the buyer whereas others would say it is the dealer's fault for offering it.

SuperInfinity

RussellTuring wrote: »

I suppose it comes down to how much you expect people to be responsible for their own actions. In this case, I would say that if they do just happen to find someone who is buying the drugs for their first time(which is not very likely, in my opinion), then it is just that they are fulfilling a desire of the buyer whereas others would say it is the dealer's fault for offering it.

But you can take this "personal responsibility" thing too far. If you put too much cake around the place too much of the time and people keep telling you how delicious it is you're going to end up eating it. If that weren't the case, advertisers wouldn't spend millions per year on advertising slots. I'm not contradicting your post here, just trying to make a point.

Sunnyisland

Joe10000 wrote: »

I have never met a pusher as far as I know but I suppose a dealer you didnt know offering you some gear could be classed a pusher.

Anybody who sells for profit weed,hash,cannabis,cocaine,heroin,speed,crack,amphimabits :-),e,s,acid is labelled a drug dealer/pusher.



The whole prohibition of drugs has to be looked at but as much as I would hope this is not going to happen as far as I can see.

Seachmall

RussellTuring wrote: »

I suppose it comes down to how much you expect people to be responsible for their own actions. In this case, I would say that if they do just happen to find someone who is buying the drugs for their first time(which is not very likely, in my opinion), then it is just that they are fulfilling a desire of the buyer whereas others would say it is the dealer's fault for offering it.

But if somebody is particularly vulnerable and low and the dealer takes advantage of that by making them feel good and then offering them drugs to solve their problems then I put 80% of the responsibility on the drug dealer. He introduced them to a drug that at any other time they would most likely never have come into contact with.

It's like a conman manipulating someone into giving them their life-savings with promise of a profitable return. They take advantage of greed, the drug pusher takes advantage of some insecurity the person has but the victims in both cases are clear (in my opinion anyway).

Now if the person calls the dealer back to buy coke or ecstasy then they're making that choice, but for a more addictive drug like heroin or meth they essentially have no choice. They are now addicted.

St.Spodo

I've never been offered anything but then, I don't look like a drug user.

Chuck Stone

St.Spodo wrote: »

I've never been offered anything but then, I don't look like a drug user.

Are you a chimpanzee?

Sunnyisland

St.Spodo wrote: »

I've never been offered anything but then, I don't look like a drug user.

Can you tell me what a drug user looks like.

Kidchameleon

OP that's not a myth. Years ago I was in my local Super Value. I was given a free sample of Barry's Tea. Now I'm bloody addicted to caffeine!

Chuck Stone

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OP that's not a myth. Years ago I was in my local Super Value. I was given a free sample of Barry's Tea. Now I'm bloody addicted to caffeine!

If it was in a Mrs. Doyle kinda way then you're dead right!

Orando Broom

Dublin drug pushers are too mean to share free drugs. Now country drug pushers.. generous to a fault.

St.Spodo

realies wrote: »

Can you tell me what a drug user looks like.

They're difficult to spot to the untrained eye but if you look closely, they have drugs in their possession.

RussellTuring

SuperInfinity wrote: »

But you can take this "personal responsibility" thing too far. If you put too much cake around the place too much of the time and people keep telling you how delicious it is you're going to end up eating it. If that weren't the case, advertisers wouldn't spend millions per year on advertising slots. I'm not contradicting your post here, just trying to make a point.

I get you. But who should decide when someone is being manipulated and when they are doing something they want? I believe the best you can do is tell people the facts and let them form their own opinions. This idea that availability will inevitably lead to increased consumption is often trotted out by prohibitionists but the facts would indicate otherwise.

Seachmall wrote: »

But if somebody is particularly vulnerable and low and the dealer takes advantage of that by making them feel good and then offering them drugs to solve their problems then I put 80% of the responsibility on the drug dealer. He introduced them to a drug that at any other time they would most likely never have come into contact with.

Why 80%? The fact remains that they chose to take them. Unless the dealer creates the conditions that somehow compel them to take the drug, they are just a supplier no different than a publican or shopkeeper.

It's like a conman manipulating someone into giving them their life-savings with promise of a profitable return. They take advantage of greed, the drug pusher takes advantage of some insecurity the person has but the victims in both cases are clear (in my opinion anyway).

If the conman ever lies to the person then they are obviously at fault but if they only tell the truth then I don't see how they are. I don't see how taking advantage of someone's greed is a bad thing.

Now if the person calls the dealer back to buy coke or ecstasy then they're making that choice, but for a more addictive drug like heroin or meth they essentially have no choice. They are now addicted.

Why do you make an exception for the first time but not subsequent times? To put it another way, are you saying that the drug dealer is the guilty party until the customer calls back(in the case of less addictive drugs)?

Sunnyisland

St.Spodo wrote: »

They're difficult to spot to the untrained eye but if you look closely, they have drugs in their possession.

You said user having them in your possession does not mean you use them, In fact quite a few drug dealers dont use.:)

joseph brand

Drug pushers are fictional characters.

Anyone I know who did any drugs was actively 'looking' for them. They probably even started out sniffing glue, aerosols and gas. (Legal and far worse)

Or it may happen that your friends offer it to you or talk you into doing something like magic mushrooms, "Ooooooh the bast**ds!"

St.Spodo

realies wrote: »

You said user having them in your possession does not mean you use them, In fact quite a few drug dealers dont use.:)

I appear to have dug myself a hole! Anyway I was just saying, I've never been offered gear and I'm in Dublin city every day. May or may not be a coincidence.

Chuck Stone

joseph brand wrote: »

Anyone I know who did any drugs was actively 'looking' for them. They probably even started out sniffing glue, aerosols and gas. (Legal and far worse)

What's unusual too is how weed is blamed for being the 'gateway drug' when I'd hazard a guess that most people would have used alcohol 1st.

SuperInfinity

St.Spodo wrote: »

They're difficult to spot to the untrained eye but if you look closely, they have drugs in their possession.

Chronic hard drug users can be identified if you did an experiment against drug-naive individuals. Shrivelled skin, often gaunt-looking, unhealthy... not ubiquitous among drug users obviously, but if a drug makes you irreversibly look like that then it's a pretty sad state of affairs. Of course years of unhealthy eating and lifestyle, especially smoking, can also cause you to age badly and look badly.

Sunnyisland

and dont forget the biggest addiction of all, alcohol.

RichieC

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

In the Q for the toilets in a nightclub got offered what I thought was coke, turned out to be ketamine. Lost use of legs just at the front door of the house.

lol... quite the adventure!

Sunnyisland

St.Spodo wrote: »

I appear to have dug myself a hole! Anyway I was just saying, I've never been offered gear and I'm in Dublin city every day. May or may not be a coincidence.

Seriously unless there strung out on heroin or crack they are hard to identify,But there are well know places around the city were you will see them congregate and witness the selling and dealing in front of you, But when your not interested or looking for that sort of thing of course it could well just pass you by.

lastlaugh

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I say more like it you were very eager to take it.
You were twenty FFS.

I wasn't particularly eager to take as I was aware it was a Class A drug, and I was apprehensive. When I saw a few other people take and it was being offered, I gave in to peer pressure.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It's kinda difficult for me to recieve that anecdote as drug pushing. I mean you were in your 20's and you'd just met the guy (I presume) and he was known to you in a roundabout way.

How do you know he wasn't just being generous?

You should recieve that anecedote as an example of manipulation, with the aim of securing future clients. I knew my mates brother, and I knew was was a dodgy character. And all his friends were very dodgy.
I found out after that yerman was a pretty big dealer and I'm pretty sure he wasn't just being generous if you see what I mean.

Seachmall

RussellTuring wrote: »

Why 80%? The fact remains that they chose to take them. Unless the dealer creates the conditions that somehow compel them to take the drug, they are just a supplier no different than a publican or shopkeeper.

It's the extent and backhandedness of the manipulation they may go to to get the person to use. Take Scientologists, they pick those who appear to be low or lacking in confidence, they invite you in to take a personality test, they then tell you how flawed you are and recommend a few books to improve your life. This is a pretty scummy way to get money off people.

If the conman ever lies to the person then they are obviously at fault but if they only tell the truth then I don't see how they are. I don't see how taking advantage of someone's greed is a bad thing.

But will the drug pusher not lie to sell his product?

Why do you make an exception for the first time but not subsequent times? To put it another way, are you saying that the drug dealer is the guilty party until the customer calls back(in the case of less addictive drugs)?

Because in my example I was only low for half of that night. I'm typically a fairly confident guy but that night I was stuck with a broken rib and couldn't get to my mates in the mosh pit. I spent a good 1-2 hours hanging around the bar and smoking area on my own. The following morning if I had called the dealer that would've been on me but I think in my vulnerable state the dealer has to take some responsibility (it was his intent to manipulate me, I can't remember what he said [it was years ago and I was quite drunk] but I'd guess it was a combination of lies and smiles).

I think the comparison between a drug pusher and a conman is an apt one and I think there are victims in both cases (of course those victims are required to be gullible). I don't think you can say the person who loses money to the conman is a victim while claiming the new drug user is entirely responsible for falling prey to a sweet-talking scumbag.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I really wish people would offer me free drugs. Life would be so much easier. Sadly the chances of that are equal to the chances of someone offering me a free car, or large sums of money for nothing.

Mike 1972

TBH one doesnt hear the term used much these days even by Joe Duffy types.

Maybe soon theyll realise how ridiculous the term street value is too.

Aoifey!

I've been offered different drugs many times. The first time I was offered anything was when I was 16 and said no. That guy was very push-y, he came up to me a few more times that night as I got drunker (it was at a gig) and kept offering it.

Any other times it was just an offer for me to take or leave. I'm responsibile for myself and if I choose to take it it's my own fault, not whoever gave it to me.

IsMiseLisa

I've never been approached by a drug pusher. I have plenty of friends who are hooked/have been hooked on a variety of drugs from hash to cocaine to valium. It's all too easily available to me - though it's not something I do.

On the college-scene, there really is no need for drug pushing. Everyone knows someone. And often, at house parties or sitting in smoking areas or where ever, there's someone sitting there passing a joint round or with a couple of spare tabs.

How gangsta.

Solnskaya

I've been "lucky" enough in my life to know a few of the top guys in the trade, and every one of them was a total manipulator and able to ingratiate themselves into peoples lives. There is a certain type who just suck impressionable(and not so impresionable)people into their circle and dominate them. Paedophiles are the same. They are out there, large as life, and they are very clever. If you have kids, you need to learn to spot the signs and it's not easy. Usually when you notice, it's too late. This goes for both dealers and paedos. I am not easily manipulated, nor easily led, but I grew up within a community where the stock in trade was not legal. I despise drugs, pity those who are addicted, but I despise the dealers, not the users. The real dealers are seldom users, usually very health concious, but they prey on the weak and are pure sh1tbags. There are plenty of "Drug pushers" , but the pushing is subtle and conniving.

RussellTuring

Seachmall wrote: »

It's the extent and backhandedness of the manipulation they may go to to get the person to use. Take Scientologists, they pick those who appear to be low or lacking in confidence, they invite you in to take a personality test, they then tell you how flawed you are and recommend a few books to improve your life. This is a pretty scummy way to get money off people.

Scientology is also a pack of lies (in my opinion).

But will the drug pusher not lie to sell his product?

Not necessarily. If they do then obviously they are being manipulative.

Because in my example I was only low for half of that night. I'm typically a fairly confident guy but that night I was stuck with a broken rib and couldn't get to my mates in the mosh pit. I spent a good 1-2 hours hanging around the bar and smoking area on my own. The following morning if I had called the dealer that would've been on me but I think in my vulnerable state the dealer has to take some responsibility (it was his intent to manipulate me, I can't remember what he said [it was years ago and I was quite drunk] but I'd guess it was a combination of lies and smiles).

Well if he did tell you lies he was being manipulative, as above but if he was completely honest I don't see what he did wrong.

I think the comparison between a drug pusher and a conman is an apt one and I think there are victims in both cases (of course those victims are required to be gullible). I don't think you can say the person who loses money to the conman is a victim while claiming the new drug user is entirely responsible for falling prey to a sweet-talking scumbag.

Did I?

Lia_lia

Never happened to me. I've had more people ask me for drugs. Great for my image :rolleyes:

Seachmall

RussellTuring wrote: »

Not necessarily. If they do then obviously they are being manipulative. [...] Well if he did tell you lies he was being manipulative, as above but if he was completely honest I don't see what he did wrong.

Manipulation doesn't necessarily require lying. You could tell someone X will make the feel better when they're in a low which might be true but you're taking advantage of a weak moment for them in order to persuade them to do something they wouldn't otherwise do. In the case of a drug pusher they're taking advantage of you at a time when you are particularly vulnerable to such scum in an attempt to benefit themselves regardless of how it impacts upon you.

Given the right circumstances we could all be open to being manipulated (break up with your girlfriend/boyfriend, a loved one dies, etc.). These guys know how to use those low moments to benefit themselves. Maybe it won't work on everyone (it didn't on me but I've no doubt it could've) but some will fall prey, I see those people as victims.

We tend to think people are always in control of their own actions and while that is technically true it's far more complicated than that.

YFlyer

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

In the Q for the toilets in a nightclub got offered what I thought was coke, turned out to be ketamine. Lost use of legs just at the front door of the house.

Raped by Special K

Paparazzo

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What's unusual too is how weed is blamed for being the 'gateway drug' when I'd hazard a guess that most people would have used alcohol 1st.

Alcohol isn't a drug, it's a drink.

Rockn

I've been offered E by some oul wan in a club. "I got dem in me handbag!" And I've been offered a blowback from some skanger down the back of the 39. But I've actually been asked if I'm selling drugs more times than I've been offered them.

B_Fanatic

Paparazzo wrote: »

Alcohol isn't a drug, it's a drink.

Ecstasy isn't a drug, it's a tablet.

jimmycrackcorm

Where are the drug pushers doing the Ryanair special offers? Stupid non-marketing pushers.

RussellTuring

Seachmall wrote: »

Manipulation doesn't necessarily require lying. You could tell someone X will make the feel better when they're in a low which might be true but you're taking advantage of a weak moment for them in order to persuade them to do something they wouldn't otherwise do. In the case of a drug pusher they're taking advantage of you at a time when you are particularly vulnerable to such scum in an attempt to benefit themselves regardless of how it impacts upon you.

Given the right circumstances we could all be open to being manipulated (break up with your girlfriend/boyfriend, a loved one dies, etc.). These guys know how to use those low moments to benefit themselves. Maybe it won't work on everyone (it didn't on me but I've no doubt it could've) but some will fall prey, I see those people as victims.

We tend to think people are always in control of their own actions and while that is technically true it's far more complicated than that.

That's all completely true but could equally be applied to many things like alcohol, cosmetics, fashion etc.

Chuck Stone

Paparazzo wrote: »

Alcohol isn't a drug, it's a drink.

Not sure if serious?

And what if you inject it?

Does it then take on the properties of a drug that it did not have before?

SuperInfinity

Of course, alcohol isn't really "a drink" anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol

Chuck Stone

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Of course, alcohol isn't really "a drink" anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol

Totally.

Drinking just describes how a liquidy substance is consumed.

I think he was joking.

deisedave

Chuck Stone wrote: »

We all heard of the notorious 'drug pusher'. He hangs around outside schools and gives free drugs to children and then *bam* the children become addicted and Mr. Drug Pusher has a lifelong customer to feed off.

Personally I think the Drug Pusher is an urban myth that is rolled out when people are looking for a scapegoat. Imo the issue is that people actually want drugs and therefore they will be supplied.

Parents and the authorities like to construct the bogey man drug pusher for their own selfish reasons. Parents to deflect blame from their drug dabbling children and the authorities to keep the prohibition farce going.

I can state categorically that I have never once been offered free drugs from a stranger nor do I know anyone that has.

Have you ever been been the subject of or witnessed 'Drug Pushing'?

(Not being offered - actual drug pushing for those who have difficulty understanding this OP)


.

Total myth there is no such thing in Ireland but I have been told its a little more common in America.

Seachmall

RussellTuring wrote: »

That's all completely true but could equally be applied to many things like alcohol, cosmetics, fashion etc.

True but drug pushers are pedaling an illegal substance and doing it on a 1 to 1 basis.

If Budweiser suddenly started targeting 15-17 year olds and as a result we saw a spike in underage consumption we'd hold them responsible.

Sunnyisland

Paparazzo wrote: »

Alcohol isn't a drug, it's a drink.

The point being made that it is as addictive as drugs & just as deadly.