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Cryptid Talk
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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It would likely need an aqualung too. Given the amount of O2 in the atmosphere has halved since back in the day a sauropod would have some difficulty breathing.if this was a surviving sauropod, it would have evolved for millions of years, so it would probably look and behave very differently from its prehistoric ancestors...
Yep. I've had one as a pet for a while. They very rarely bask out of the water and can breathe underwater and if they do need to gulp air they just stick the very tip of their nose out for a split second. No wonder the Hanoi ones were missed for so long. As for how the Hanoi ones reproduced. I suspect they're old. Very old. Marked in centuries. The city is buit up now around the lake, but 300 years ago they may have had small beaches and other wild areas around the lake. Now since long gone.I agree about the soft shell turtle; seen from a distance it would appear to lack a shell. Imagine something like this, only with a longer neck:Interestingly, Mokele Mbembe is often said to have a small horn or "tusk" projecting from its face.
But not eat them. The natives are clear on this point. Both of the above reports have made some researchers come to the conclusion that Mokele Mbembe is actually a rare possibly semi aquatic at a push forest Rhino.Mokele is also said to kill elephants and hippos.
The biggest problem with a large cryptid in the Congo jungle and I['m surprised it's not noted more often? While it seems ancient and primeval, it hasn't been a jungle for that long at all. It contracts and expands with climate change(and settlement. In colonial days not so long ago there were towns and train lines etc. Now all swallowed up in a few decades). A few 1000 years ago it was grassland/savanna with pockets of trees and lots of rivers. And with all the savanna fauna one would expect. Elephants, antelope and lions and great apes in the forest pockets. Now today we have those self same grassland animals not normally associated with jungle living hanging out in the Congo. They adapted to this new life. Some became larger, most dwarfed(inc people). There's one exception to this line up though; the Rhino. It would be my opinion that the bulk of Mokele Mbembe reports by the natives are actually a very rare congo rhino. Even the track matches up;
The big problem with cryptids in jungles is many jungles that look ancient to us aren't or not so long ago were very different. Visit the Yucatan of Amazon basin 1000 years ago and most would be surprised at the level of human habitation and how much less forest was around. Me, if I was looking for cryptids I'd be just as happy looking at the unimagineably huge belt of temperate forest in the more northerly latitudes. Siberia alone makes the amazon look small enough. The jungles of SE Asia were pretty stable and ancient. Ditto for the temperate forests of China.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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It would likely need an aqualung too. Given the amount of O2 in the atmosphere has halved since back in the day a sauropod would have some difficulty breathing.
I suposse it would have evolved to adapt to the new atmosphere conditions of course :mad: Also I never said the thing ATE hippos or elephants.
I'm not defending the idea of a sauropod, even tho its the coolest one. A jungle rhino may explain Emela Ntouka but, rhinos have huge heads and short necks, very different to Mokele, which is said to be long necked by pretty much everyone.
The horn in Mokele's head is supossed to be very short, hence my suggestion that it may be the tube-shaped nose of a gigantic, long necked softshell.
The footprints don´t have to belong to the same animal. In fact, if the picture posted above of the native art depicting Mokele is authentic, the creature seems to have long toes or claws, whereas the footprints show three large, round toes. These tracks most likely belong to rhinos whereas the sightings would be of a very different animal.
Now, another very interesting question, what is the Mbielu-Mbielu-Mbielu?
Described as a semiaquatic stegosaur by some, it is said to have a series of jagged plates or spikes on its back and to be herbivorous.
Some believe it may actually be an unknown species of crocodile with particularly large osteoderms.
Another cryptid from the same area is the Mahamba, a giant crocodile. Native depictions of the croc show a critter with a broader snout compared to a Nile croc, and (this is interesting) some weird bumps or horns in the back of its head.
This fits the description of Crocodylus anthropophagus, a recently described crocodile that coexisted with our australopithecine ancestors and even ate them once in a while (its bite marks have been found in hominid bones, hence the name).
C. anthropophagus was 6-8 meters long, but may have grown larger considering that we only have once specimen (to my knowledge anyways). Natives in Africa claim the giant horned crocs grow up to over 15 meters... that's as large as the largest Mesozoic crocodilians!!
I find it easier to believe in the late survival of C. anthropophagus than say, Kentrosaurus (the most popular interpretation of Mbielu-Mbielu-Mbielu) or sauropods.0 -
Now, another very interesting question, what is the Mbielu-Mbielu-Mbielu?
Described as a semiaquatic stegosaur by some, it is said to have a series of jagged plates or spikes on its back and to be herbivorous.
Some believe it may actually be an unknown species of crocodile with particularly large osteoderms.
There have been many varieties of vegetarian crocodile in prehistoric times. Wouldn't be too surprising to find a new type living in modern times.0 -
There have been many varieties of vegetarian crocodile in prehistoric times. Wouldn't be too surprising to find a new type living in modern times.
Yeah, not so surprising if we consider that modern day crocodilians (gators and caimans at least) don´t mind the occasional fruit snack
http://youtu.be/9xVwIuB-Xm4
http://youtu.be/Urdn2m__PQI0 -
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Some palaeontologists have thought this description from medieval times about a creature seen near the volga river in russia:
"Near this river is a vast wilderness wherein they say is an animal that is less than a camel and more like a bull in size. Its head is like the head of a camel, and its tail is like the tail of a bull, while its body is like the body of a mule, and its hooves are like the cloven hooves of a bull. In the center of its head, it has a thick round horn, which as it rises from the head of the animal gets to be thinner until it becomes like the point of a lance. The length of some of these horns is from three to five cubits, and there are those that may attain to a greater or lesser length. The animal grazes on the leaves of trees, which are quite green. When it sees a horseman, it makes straight for him, and if he happens to have under him a fast horse, he is rendered safe from it with some effort. If it overtakes him, it removes him from the back of his horse with its horn, hurls him into the air, and then catches him with its horn. It continues in this manner until it kills him. It does not bother the horse in any form or manner. They seek out this animal in the forests in order to kill it. They do that by climbing the tall trees among which it is found, and with this object in mind, they assemble a number of archers with poisoned arrows. When it stands in their midst, they shoot at it until it is severely wounded and killed by them. I saw in the king's house three large bowls which looked like [they were made of] the onyx of Yemen. The king informed me that it was made from the base of the horn of the animal. Some of the people of the country told me that it was a rhinoceros."
Could be this:
An elasmotherium0 -
steddyeddy wrote: »Some palaeontologists have thought this description from medieval times about a creature seen near the volga river in russia:
"Near this river is a vast wilderness wherein they say is an animal that is less than a camel and more like a bull in size. Its head is like the head of a camel, and its tail is like the tail of a bull, while its body is like the body of a mule, and its hooves are like the cloven hooves of a bull. In the center of its head, it has a thick round horn, which as it rises from the head of the animal gets to be thinner until it becomes like the point of a lance. The length of some of these horns is from three to five cubits, and there are those that may attain to a greater or lesser length. The animal grazes on the leaves of trees, which are quite green. When it sees a horseman, it makes straight for him, and if he happens to have under him a fast horse, he is rendered safe from it with some effort. If it overtakes him, it removes him from the back of his horse with its horn, hurls him into the air, and then catches him with its horn. It continues in this manner until it kills him. It does not bother the horse in any form or manner. They seek out this animal in the forests in order to kill it. They do that by climbing the tall trees among which it is found, and with this object in mind, they assemble a number of archers with poisoned arrows. When it stands in their midst, they shoot at it until it is severely wounded and killed by them. I saw in the king's house three large bowls which looked like [they were made of] the onyx of Yemen. The king informed me that it was made from the base of the horn of the animal. Some of the people of the country told me that it was a rhinoceros."
Could be this:An elasmotherium
Oh yes, the original unicorn Like a million times cooler than the one horned little ponies of modern pop culture. I mean, the Unicorn in the medieval stories was said to be a ferocious animal, avoided even by the lion!
It was said that lions would only hunt unicorns when these were stuck by the horn in a tree or something.
The interesting thing about Elasmotherium is that it had longer legs than modern day rhinos meaning it could run faster and probably had a horse-like galloping motion. Maybe that's why the creature, after becoming extinct, was slowly turned into a horse by storytellers?
I love the idea of Elasmotherium as the original Unicorn. It allows me to feel some respect for this mythical creature XD
There were also stories about how Unicorns were very hostile to elephants. Now, I guess this could be just myth, but, is it possible, maybe that people in prehistory witnessed mammoths and Elasmotherium facing off? With its enormous size (bigger than many horned dinosaurs!) and speed, and that humongous horn, I bet an angry Elasmotherium would be deadly even for a grown mammoth.
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Just found out there's another weird creature in the same regions of Africa called the Nguma-monene, which some people (surely fanboys) believe it may be a surviving spinosaur.
I say they must be fanboys cuz after reading a little on the subject I don´t think the creature has anything in common with a spinosaur. It is said to have a low to the ground body, being elongated and snake-like and having a forked tongue it uses like a snake to taste the air.
This sounds a lot more like some sort of giant monitor or monitor-like lizard than any dinosaur. The spinosaur claim is made based on the ridge or frill the animal is said to have running down its back but this could be a ridge of iguana-like spikes in some sort of lizard; no one ever described the ridge as a "sail". Even more, no one described the creature's head as similar to a crocodile's (which would be expected if it was a spinosaur) but rather as similar to that of a snake.
It sucks, in a way, because a living spinosaur would be badass :>
BTW, I found part of a book called A Living Dinosaur? online; it mentions all the cryptids I talked about before from these African regions. Seems that the giant eagle is non other than the Crowned Eagle, which we all know and love (although maybe not so much our ancestors who fell prey to it, as the fossil record shows).
Also at the end of the book the author concludes that the Mokele Mbembe must be a surviving sauropod (but... isn´t a turtle more realistic, I say?), that the Emela-Ntouka is an aquatic rhino, and that the Nguma-monene and/or the Mbielu-Mbielu-Mbielu are just oversized, long necked monitor lizards.
I still have to read the full book to see how he got to his conclusions.0 -
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steddyeddy wrote: »I dont think the creature is described as anything other than a herbivore. The only cryptid I can think of in africa that is said to eat people is the nandi bear which some say could be a giant baboon of some sort.
It has also been said to be a giant hyena, hyena-like animal (like Dinocrocuta), a sabertoothed cat (Megantereon, Homotherium?) and even a chalicothere, which would be unlikely since these horse-gorilla-sloth chimaeras were vegetarian and the nandi bear seems to have a fondness for brains...
The bone crushing jaws and brain eating sound very hyena-like to me; the so called Terror Beast of Malawi that caused massive exodus in said country quite recently turned out to be a hyena, which would kill people by crushing their face/skull with it's jaws...
Maybe the nandi bear could be a particularly large spotted hyena, or a fourth hyena species still undiscovered by science? (Pic below, giant hyena Pachycrocuta biting Homo erectus' face)
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It has also been said to be a giant hyena, hyena-like animal (like Dinocrocuta), a sabertoothed cat (Megantereon, Homotherium?) and even a chalicothere, which would be unlikely since these horse-gorilla-sloth chimaeras were vegetarian and the nandi bear seems to have a fondness for brains...
The bone crushing jaws and brain eating sound very hyena-like to me; the so called Terror Beast of Malawi that caused massive exodus in said country quite recently turned out to be a hyena, which would kill people by crushing their face/skull with it's jaws...
Maybe the nandi bear could be a particularly large spotted hyena, or a fourth hyena species still undiscovered by science? (Pic below, giant hyena Pachycrocuta biting Homo erectus' face)
Wow looks like it had a powerful bite!
Another interesting possible cryptid is the queensland tiger which has been theorised to be a marsupial lion among other things.
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steddyeddy wrote: »Another interesting possible cryptid is the queensland tiger which has been theorised to be a marsupial lion among other things.
Hmm, that colour scheme is very much like that of the marsupial wolf or thylacene. Although the marsupial lion of prehistoric times was far less cat like than that picture.0 -
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Hmm, that colour scheme is very much like that of the marsupial wolf or thylacene. Although the marsupial lion of prehistoric times was far less cat like than that picture.
There is a certain cave painting in Australia which seems to depict Thylacoleo, the marsupial lion, and it DOES have stripes (maybe it looked more like a tiger than a lion after all).
The painting shows an animal with a short rounded muzzle and very large, powerfully built arms, suggesting this is NOT a depiction of a Thylacyne.
I see this as exciting evidence that Thylacoleo may have been seen in recent times... at least it's a very cool idea 0 -
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There is a certain cave painting in Australia which seems to depict Thylacoleo, the marsupial lion, and it DOES have stripes (maybe it looked more like a tiger than a lion after all).
The painting shows an animal with a short rounded muzzle and very large, powerfully built arms, suggesting this is NOT a depiction of a Thylacyne.
I see this as exciting evidence that Thylacoleo may have been seen in recent times... at least it's a very cool idea
Thats very interesting thanks for the picture interesting that the art looks much like the picture I posted and their certainly is the wilderness in austrailia to support unknown animals. Other austrailian cryptids are the yowie (a type of bigfoot) the bunnyip who some say is a memory of the diprotodon and the sightings of a huge lizard that some people claim is the megalania.0 -
There is a certain cave painting in Australia which seems to depict Thylacoleo, the marsupial lion, and it DOES have stripes (maybe it looked more like a tiger than a lion after all).
The painting shows an animal with a short rounded muzzle and very large, powerfully built arms, suggesting this is NOT a depiction of a Thylacyne.
I see this as exciting evidence that Thylacoleo may have been seen in recent times... at least it's a very cool idea
That looks more like it!
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steddyeddy wrote: »Thats very interesting thanks for the picture interesting that the art looks much like the picture I posted and their certainly is the wilderness in austrailia to support unknown animals. Other austrailian cryptids are the yowie (a type of bigfoot) the bunnyip who some say is a memory of the diprotodon and the sightings of a huge lizard that some people claim is the megalania.
No probs- I am a big fan of cave paintings, especially when they depict animals that are unlike anything we see today.
To the cryptids you mention I could add the Waugal, a giant snake spirit said to guard waterholes, springs and wildlife in general. The creature was said to live near water, and was so feared that aborigins wouldn´t let their children go to waterholes alone. Also, the places were Waugal lived were said to be sacred.
It seems that Waugal is nothing more than the aborigin's "memory", through oral tradition, of Wonambi, a gigantic snake (up to 6 meters, maybe more in lenght) which lived in Australia until the Pleistocene, and seemingly coexisted with humans.
Here's a mount of a Thylacoleo and a Wonambi fighting:
The interesting thing about Wonambi is that it was (to our knowledge) the last madtsoiid- these being giant constricting snakes that appeared in the Cretaceous (with some growing up to 10-15 meters long) and gradually went extinct. Famous Gigantophis was also a madtsoiid (but Titanoboa was not).
It's not like Waugal is a cryptid per se (I don´t know if people has reported seeing giant Wonambi-like snakes in modern times), but still, I thought it was interesting to mention...
Also, in case someone here doesn´t know, there are at least three other giant snakes known from Australia, these being Morelia riversleighensis (formerly known as Montypythonoides :rolleyes:) a python measuring about 4-6 meters; Yurlunggur, a madtsoiid measuring also about 6 meters, and Liasis dubudingala (meaning strangling-ghost) which seems to have been arboreal and was Australia's largest snake, at 9-10 meters long. :eek:
Now that would be cool to sight today!0 -
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