Protest march for SNA Teachers.Cork

mevc123

evilivor wrote: »

The INTO is chiefly concerned with retaining the status of its members, retaining their high salaries, short working day and privileged working conditions

That we, as a nation, cannot afford to continue to pay the salaries and pensions of these teachers at the current rates, is of no interest to them.

That's your opinion, obviously as a non-teacher, and you're perfectly entitled to it but I'm not entering into a teacher-bashing debate about what you perceive the INTO to be all about.
I only wanted to contribute to the discussion pertaining to the treatment of children with special needs and the professionals who are trying to help them.

evilivor

mevc123 wrote: »

evilivor wrote: »

The INTO is chiefly concerned with retaining the status of its members, retaining their high salaries, short working day and privileged working conditions

That we, as a nation, cannot afford to continue to pay the salaries and pensions of these teachers at the current rates, is of no interest to them.

That's your opinion, obviously as a non-teacher, and you're perfectly entitled to it but I'm not entering into a teacher-bashing debate about what you perceive the INTO to be all about.
I only wanted to contribute to the discussion pertaining to the treatment of children with special needs and the professionals who are trying to help them.

Where did I say I wasn't a teacher?

mevc123

I assumed from your tone. Most teachers don't generalise about 'privileged working conditions' and we certainly don't consider our salaries to be 'high' :-)

blogga

mevc123 wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more. I know what the SNA requirements are but I honestly don't know a single one who is doing their job with just their Junior Cert behind them. And if you think their services are 'peripheral' and limited to providing 'basic care like toiletting' then you have a very narrow view of the job.

I have an accurate and factual view of the job. Check the qualifications. It is a peripheral job and the focus on it to the detriment of the needs of the many must end. Reread my post and focus on what matters to the majority.

beer enigma

blogga wrote: »

mevc123 wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more. I know what the SNA requirements are but I honestly don't know a single one who is doing their job with just their Junior Cert behind them. And if you think their services are 'peripheral' and limited to providing 'basic care like toiletting' then you have a very narrow view of the job.

I have an accurate and factual view of the job. Check the qualifications. It is a peripheral job and the focus on it to the detriment of the needs of the many must end. Reread my post and focus on what matters to the majority.

First time I've EVER lost my rag on boards !

What total and absolute rubbish Blogga

My son is 8 years old and has spent 5 years going through operations to rebuild his inner ear - 4 years speech therapy - same with OT (private because if state cuts) just to get his balance. Up until 2 years ago he'd fall off his chair his balance was - he is bright and intelligent but it's not the teachers role to help him with balance, handwriting etc - the SNA has been invaluable to him & I dread to think now she has gone what will happen next year. More of the teachers time will be taken up by himself and another lad - is that fair on the other kids or are you now going to tell me to send my lad to an institution !!!! Get real

Toilet my a**

Judes

I was there on Saturday afternoon - so well done to those who turned up to support this. But I was disgusted at such a low turn out. I myself don't have children, nor will I - but felt it was so important to protest about these cuts - and the fact that, as we ranted "children are our future".

I was also amazed at the amount of mothers/families with young children, or pushing prams walking past us - with little interest - oblivious to the fact that this could effect them or their children.

Reading a previous posters comment that SNA's assist children with toilet attendance just shocked me. Speak to any parent whose child has any form of special need and ask them how much an SNA has helped their child.

I just wonder do some people really know what is going on in this country.

Dan Dare

I too was there on Saturday afternoon, maybe 200 or so people turned up, not a great turn out. But thank you to those who did.

Bloody Nipples

blogga wrote: »

I have an accurate and factual view of the job. Check the qualifications. It is a peripheral job and the focus on it to the detriment of the needs of the many must end. Reread my post and focus on what matters to the majority.

My mother is an SNA. While the minimum educational requirements to legally be an SNA are that low, in the actual hiring process, people tend to look for the best qualified candidate in a frankly flooded jobs market, so it's unlikely that there's actual SNAs out there in practice with just there JCs and no practical experience. SNA posts are attractive because of their hours which allows mothers (sorry about the generalisation) to work full time and also be there for their kids, so principals really have their pick of the candidates going for SNA positions.

Mom started 11 years ago with her LC and 5 years experience working with physically and mentally disabled children at Enable Ireland's Lavanagh Centre.
Also, SNAs don't get a look in now without this qualification (4 FETAC 5 certificates and a Froebel accredited cert), which she had to go back and do in order to be sure of obtaining a move to a full time post at a school where she already had a 10 hour post.

So while in theory you're correct, don't bother going presenting the idea that there's a whole pile of SNAs out there with only their Junior Certs because that's bollox.

And when you say it's a peripheral position, you're also talking out your arse. You have absolutely no idea of the number of children sitting in their classrooms with zero understanding of what the teacher's talking about on the board, totally unable to read ANY of their books and absolutely and utterly incapable of doing one shred of schoolwork considered appropriate for their age because of a continuous slippage through the cracks in our educational system. A teacher is one person, teaching in a class of up to 30+ students (36 in my own class in primary school) and the SNAs are the ONLY system for trying to catch these kids and give them any kind of ability to participate in mainstream education.

blogga

Andip wrote: »

First time I've EVER lost my rag on boards !

What total and absolute rubbish Blogga

My son is 8 years old and has spent 5 years going through operations to rebuild his inner ear - 4 years speech therapy - same with OT (private because if state cuts) just to get his balance. Up until 2 years ago he'd fall off his chair his balance was - he is bright and intelligent but it's not the teachers role to help him with balance, handwriting etc - the SNA has been invaluable to him & I dread to think now she has gone what will happen next year. More of the teachers time will be taken up by himself and another lad - is that fair on the other kids or are you now going to tell me to send my lad to an institution !!!! Get real

Toilet my a**

You simply proved my points. It is not the teacher's role to help him with balance. That is a care need and SNA's deal with making sure he is supported. They have no requirement to have training or skills or responsibilities in any teaching roles and the blurring of the lines in poorly managed situations has led to an outcry over peripheral roles like this. Of course everyone has sympathy for your son and his situation but the fundamental point is that the majority of students need attention too and attention at the macro level. The getting mad at the restatement of facts by me is irrelevant. In fact I believe that until the shout loudly approach to looking at issues is set aside when it has no underlying foundation in fact then we will make no progress in getting real change. It is regrettable that you dismiss the toileting duties of SNA's so glibly. For some parents those services are part of what enable their children to attend mainstream school. In short, check with the NCSE regarding SNA's duties. Facts dont cease being such because you don't like them.

blogga

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

My mother is an SNA. While the minimum educational requirements to legally be an SNA are that low, in the actual hiring process, people tend to look for the best qualified candidate, so it's unlikely that there's actual SNAs out there in practice with just there JCs and no practical experience.

Mom started 11 years ago with her LC and 5 years experience working with physically and mentally disabled children at Enable Ireland's Lavanagh Centre.
Also, SNAs don't get a look in now without this qualification (4 FETAC 5 certificates and a Froebel accredited cert), which she had to go back and do in order to be sure of obtaining a move to a full time post at a school where she already had a 10 hour post.

So while in theory you're correct, don't bother going presenting the idea that there's a whole pile of SNAs out there with only their Junior Certs because that's bollox.

The minimum requirement for the job indicates the role intended. It is commonplace in HR to run into excessively qualified people taking roles that were not intended for them and for which their qualificatiosn are irrelevant. The blurring of the lines over the duties of SNA's is what has led to the current situation where people believe they are losing teachers.

Bloody Nipples

blogga wrote: »

The minimum requirement for the job indicates the role intended. It is commonplace in HR to run into excessively qualified people taking roles that were not intended for them and for which their qualificatiosn are irrelevant. The blurring of the lines over the duties of SNA's is what has led to the current situation where people believe they are losing teachers.

To a special neeeds child without an SNA, a teacher has little or no interaction and the child effectively sits there taking in little to nothing. I've heard of numerous cases of children in 6th class being completely unable to read. These children have a dire need for a one to one educator, so while for some people an SNA could be classed as "peripheral", for the children who actually need them they really are the only effective way of ensuring they get any kind of meaningful education.

EDIT:Which is why the lines are being blurred.

run_Forrest_run

Judes wrote: »

I was there on Saturday afternoon - so well done to those who turned up to support this. But I was disgusted at such a low turn out. I myself don't have children, nor will I - but felt it was so important to protest about these cuts - and the fact that, as we ranted "children are our future".

I was also amazed at the amount of mothers/families with young children, or pushing prams walking past us - with little interest - oblivious to the fact that this could effect them or their children.

Reading a previous posters comment that SNA's assist children with toilet attendance just shocked me. Speak to any parent whose child has any form of special need and ask them how much an SNA has helped their child.

I just wonder do some people really know what is going on in this country.

pity to hear there was such a low turnout.
I think you hit the nail on the head, a lot of parents out there who do not have children with special needs are indeed totally unaware of the predicament of those with special needs children, I include myself in this category but I am becoming more aware of the situation as my children grow older and from meeting parents of children with special needs.

Before I had children I certainly wasn't aware of the conditions in this country for those with special needs, children or otherwise.
I think this is quite normal, it's a case of learning things only when they apply to you or those around you...no one intends on being ignorant of the facts (well perhaps some do) but all in all I think people only join protests and focus groups when it affects them.

Now of course I know there are exceptions to this and from reading posts above there are some very thoughtful and caring people out there doing the work even when it doesn't directly affect them, good on those people.

This thread is turning a bit sour with the bickering and I didn't mean to engage in it. I think people are all very disgruntled now with less take home pay and cuts left right and centre and we are all so sensitive to comments from others in these tough times.

blogga

And by campaigning for SNA's the focus remains misplaced. Teachers teachers teachers. You want proper education not "teaching" provided on the blurred lines advocated above.

overmantle

joyce2009 wrote: »

I hope this is the right place to post this.

There is a protest march being organised against the budget cuts being force on the schools regarding the number of SNA teachers being provided for the comming school year.
If you are affected by this or understand the pain and worry this is going to cause to so many children and their families can you please spread the word and come out and show your support for them..

The 9th of July at 3pm on Patricks bridge..
Thank you.

The term 'SNA Teacher' is incorrect. Somebody is employed either as an 'SNA' or a 'Teacher' (not both). On a very rare occasion, you may have a situation where somebody who is a recently qualified teacher but cannot gain work as a teacher, may accept short-term work as an SNA. In that case, she or he is working as an SNA, not a teacher.

Kazbah

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the role of an SNA. An SNA can only be responsible for care needs not academic needs. They are not meant to deliver or interpret the curriculum for a student. That is the role of a teacher. A lot of comments have been made about students needing help which is not the role of an SNA to deliver eg helping with reading etc. The role of an SNA is in a non-teaching capacity. That is not to say that SNAs don't carry out duties they are not meant to but that is another matter!

More info:
http://www.into.ie/ROI/SchoolAdministrationPolicies/SchoolTransportandAncillaryStaff/SpecialNeedsAssistants/