LUAS green line extension

SerialComplaint

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the social divide

I genuinely don't understand what this means. Would you care to expand?

square leg wrote: »

Simply parents are more responsible -

And why are parents in the Gallops more responsible than parents in Ballyogan?

LXFlyer

To put it in simple language, Ballyogan estate was built in the late 1980s as a council estate in the middle of nowhere, with zero facilities and not even a footpath along Ballyogan Road, which was a narrow road with a lot of traffic on it.

A sizeable number of single parent families were housed there. While not passing sweeping judgment on everyone in such circumstances, that in itself was a recipe for problems.

The reality is the various social problems that have blighted every other similar area with high unemployment have always affected Ballyogan. There used to be problems with the 44 bus with damage being some to vehicles. As in most of these cases a minority causes trouble for the majority.

Larbre34

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I genuinely don't understand what this means. Would you care to expand?

And why are parents in the Gallops more responsible than parents in Ballyogan?

Right let's take it nice and slow

The parents in the Gallops own their own homes, are more likely to be in work earning their own money and concious of the value of it, are more responsible for themselves, their kids and others and likely have a sense of shame when their families behave badly and let them down, so they make the effort to minimise that and address it when it happens. Their community means something to them, they like to live in a well kept a neighbourhood with like minded people, and value their security and their peace.

The parents in Ballyogan are living in social housing granted to them, more likely to be long term unemployed and living on benefits which land into their accounts every week for no effort from them, giving them plenty of time to do as they please, and to let their kids do likewise. They havent invested anything in their community to live there so it doesnt bother them greatly what happens to it, or what their kids do to it, or how they behave in it. The only thing that exercises them, is when some authority figure pulls them up about the behaviour of their kids on the Luas, on the street, in the shops, in school - at which point they call them a fascist, racist, pen pusher, pig and cry blue murder to the unfortunate housing officers and estate managers for discriminating against them

Now you know and I know neither of the above situations are absolutes - you really do get good and bad everywhere. However if you ask genuinely stupid questions like that, you are genuinely going to get sweeping generalisations for your answer.....

SerialComplaint

Larbre34 wrote: »

The parents in Ballyogan are living in social housing granted to them, more likely to be long term unemployed

And why do you think that parents in Ballyogan are more likely to be long term unemployed?

Larbre34

SerialComplaint wrote: »

And why do you think that parents in Ballyogan are more likely to be long term unemployed?

A brief look at the census data and demographics for the area and the QNHS, all easily accessible online

Or it could just be a sweeping generalisation in response to your genuine lack of understanding

uch

Larbre34 wrote: »

A brief look at the census data and demographics for the area and the QNHS, all easily accessible online

Or it could just be a sweeping generalisation in response to your genuine lack of understanding

Sorry for offtopic post but can you post a link, curious to look at some of these stats

SerialComplaint

Larbre34 wrote: »

A brief look at the census data and demographics for the area and the QNHS, all easily accessible online

I'm not questioning that unemployment rates are higher in Ballyogan. I'm questioning WHY unemployment rates are higher in Ballyogan?

Fight_Night

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I'm not questioning that unemployment rates are higher in Ballyogan. I'm questioning WHY unemployment rates are higher in Ballyogan?

Because they are council estates. Ballyogan has the same problems as any rough council estate in North Dublin.

SerialComplaint

Fight_Night wrote: »

Because they are council estates.

So why do council estates have higher unemployment than other estates? I understand that council houses are means tested and all that, but think about the next generation. Why do you think that children born and raised in council estates have higher unemployment rates than others?

Brasso

SerialComplaint wrote: »

So why do council estates have higher unemployment than other estates? I understand that council houses are means tested and all that, but think about the next generation. Why do you think that children born and raised in council estates have higher unemployment rates than others?

Cycle of poverty in a way, not being born into a working/educated family environment makes it more difficult to get a job due to less exposure to education and work. In many of these houses college or futher education wouldn't be seen as a natural progression from school. Many children go on to work in a family business, the same can be the case here except the "family business" is long term unemployment.

grimm2005

I got the Luas from Cherrywood to Stephens green in the morning and back in the evenings nearly everyday for a month (i stopped as I found a quicker and easier way to get where I needed to go) and still do every now and then and have never had any trouble let alone as much as seems to be highlighted in this thread. Sure, you get the odd annoying people but nowhere near the level of the red line, bus or even the Dart for that matter. I've also been on the red line quite a bit and it is much much worse then the green line when it comes to undesirables so to say it's as bad as the red line is simply untrue.

Big Nasty

SerialComplaint wrote: »

So why do council estates have higher unemployment than other estates? I understand that council houses are means tested and all that, but think about the next generation. Why do you think that children born and raised in council estates have higher unemployment rates than others?

Because if Leonardo De Vinci was born in Ballyogan he would have had his paint brush taken from him, got a smack and told not to be such a sissy and get out and play in the traffic. :pac:

Fight_Night

grimm2005 wrote: »

I got the Luas from Cherrywood to Stephens green in the morning and back in the evenings nearly everyday for a month (i stopped as I found a quicker and easier way to get where I needed to go) and still do every now and then and have never had any trouble let alone as much as seems to be highlighted in this thread. Sure, you get the odd annoying people but nowhere near the level of the red line, bus or even the Dart for that matter. I've also been on the red line quite a bit and it is much much worse then the green line when it comes to undesirables so to say it's as bad as the red line is simply untrue.

Nowhere near Red line level but unless you go at the quietest time ever there is usually a few groups of intimidating teenagers/young adults around Ballyogan and the surrounding stops. I get the dart regularly and never run into any trouble. The fact that you can essentially ride the LUAS for free probably attracts more scumbags.

Richard Hillman

SerialComplaint wrote: »

So why do council estates have higher unemployment than other estates? I understand that council houses are means tested and all that, but think about the next generation. Why do you think that children born and raised in council estates have higher unemployment rates than others?

Less ambition. I have relatives, former neighbours and former schoolmates living in Ballyogan that used to live close to me. Everyone from my area that applies for social housing goes to Ballyogan. They all dropped out of school early under no pressure, took up working in low skilled jobs and had children at a young age.

They didnt have the same ambition and drive to avail of the opportunites available to other people that lived in the area and went to the same schools.

This is all before they availed of social housing in Ballyogan and the cycle of less ambition will probably continue for their kids.

jaspertheghost

hi all, is anyone here actually from ballyogan??? was offered a house there and was wondering wether to take it or not.

Fight_Night

jaspertheghost wrote: »

hi all, is anyone here actually from ballyogan??? was offered a house there and was wondering wether to take it or not.

Hey saw your post in After Hours.

It's not as bad as areas of Tallaght but it is a rough council estate and has quite a bad reputation around here. I went to primary school with a lot of lads from Ballyogan so I would've spent a fair bit of time there as a child, very rough in my experience lots of teenagers causing trouble, saw someone drop a brick down from a bridge onto a mainroad full of cars. Much rougher than where I lived(Sandyford). Now with that said, it's possible to live a happy life there and there's still plenty of nice people there, but you(or perhaps more importantly your kids) will probably run into a bit of trouble is all I'm saying.

alphabeat

we need to have mandatory gas chambers between central park and ballyogan , or just nuke the whole estate


from ballyogan to dundrum has become a knackfest from 3 pm onwards.

Mrsbananas

This thread is laughable.
The intimidating 'gangs' from ballyogan that are spoken of here are kids no older than 15, bored out of their minds I imagine!
I'd be far more intimadated by the crowds that hang out at the playground in belarmine and around the shops and behind the trees in sandy ford hall!

jaspertheghost

i agree mrs b, total over hype about this place,moved here a couple of weeks ago and its been a grand place so far,neighbours are all lovely ,kids get on grand here,heard a lot of bad things about the place before the place but think its been from people who dont even live around here....

Monty Burnz

jaspertheghost wrote: »

i agree mrs b, total over hype about this place,moved here a couple of weeks ago and its been a grand place so far,neighbours are all lovely ,kids get on grand here,heard a lot of bad things about the place before the place but think its been from people who dont even live around here....

Perhaps Ballyogan is an exporter of trouble?

jaspertheghost

maybe it has had trouble in the past but them trouble makers have since grown up and either moved on or have been locked up...i can only speak about the present,and as far as i have seen it seems to be a grand place...

cmore123

Nowadays, of course, it's seen as a no-no for a parent or teacher to chastise a child; they're seen as bullies. Therefore we get these feral scumbags. And the gardaí won't touch them because they can't, as courts will just witter on about their rights.

So - until all of us vote for politicians (exclude FF, FG, SF and Labour from that, incidentally) who support changing laws to take an extremely hard line on anti-social behaviour, as was so successfully done in the USA some years ago, it'll just get worse.

Don't shoot the messenger....... unfortunately.....

RebelButtMunch

cmore123 wrote: »

Nowadays, of course, it's seen as a no-no for a parent or teacher to chastise a child; they're seen as bullies. Therefore we get these feral scumbags. And the gardaí won't touch them because they can't, as courts will just witter on about their rights.

So - until all of us vote for politicians (exclude FF, FG, SF and Labour from that, incidentally) who support changing laws to take an extremely hard line on anti-social behaviour, as was so successfully done in the USA some years ago, it'll just get worse.

Don't shoot the messenger....... unfortunately.....

Arise dead thread

spillit67

Ballyogan didn't have a great rep 15 years ago. Not really bad but the same problems that followed a lot of local authority housing in this country came with it. Before the Luas and M50 you were pretty cut off up there and there was lots of kids and teenagers. The whole area is hugely different from when I was younger.