RELOADING EQUIPTMENT

BELOWaverageIQ

You will note that I was directed here with my question by sparks but thanks for your time .
M

dCorbus

I'd say you've been getting 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th Hand information. Check your sources as I'd say they've badly misinformed you on all this.;)

I can't answer everything you've heard but the bits I can answer:

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

I also heard on numberous occations that the reloaded ammo that was used by the Irish squad was all exactly the same.....same projectile, same charge etc etc.....surely that is not true as it would totally defeat the purpose of reloading and the chance to obtaine rifle specific ammo.

Whoever told you this was either misinformed themselves or was telling you porkies. The facts (as far as I'm aware) are:

- All ammo used by the squad and the 8-man shooting team was most definitely not exactly the same.
- Generally, two brands of heads were used and one more than the other.
- In the team shoot, the same weight head was used by all shooters.
- However, with different brass, different powder loads, different seating-depths, different neck-tensions, some F/L sized, some only Neck-sized, some neck-turned, some not neck-turned, some new brass, some fire-formed brass, different primers, different brass lengths, different brass-weights, different shoulder-bumps, different brands of heads, etc. etc. etc.........Sure, all the loads were the same!!:rolleyes::D

For the coached team-shoot, the only things which were to be kept the same where the weight of bullet head and the MV. This is pretty much best practice in coached team-shooting (whether it be F-Open, F/TR, or Palma/TR), so the wind-coaches "know" what the rounds will do down range and what "way" each gun may fire in a given condition. If all team guns and ammo were shooting with different bullets and speeds, the job of the wind-coach would be rendered impossible (or at best, an almighty head-fvck!).

For you be told all this incorrect information on "numerous occasions" (as you put it) surprises me: Hopefully those who'd actually know this information wouldn't be blowing smoke up your ass and if it is second- or third-hand info, it's pretty wide of the mark, bearing little or no resemblance to the reality and the facts.

So, I can state pretty categorically that the individual loads were developed for each individual rifle, to the parameters on MV & Bullet type/weight set down by the Team Captain - All the other criteria and nuances of the load were up to the squad members to work up and develop an optimal load for themselves and their rifle/barrel/chamber.

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

I was told that not all members of the Ftr squad were using re-loads and that HPS-TR 155 was being used etc..Why was this, was reloading not available to all or what ?. I susect the reason was because the reloading was not in on time for people to develope a load ??
Very curious to know why the chance to reload was not availed of by all.

I can't think of any squad member who was using a factory-round.
I may be wrong, but I think everyone had worked up a load, for either the individual competition or the team-shoot or both. Certainly, no one planning to be shooting on the 8-man shooting team was intending to use factory ammunition for the team-shoot.

Whilst the HPS is great factory ammo, it's not a patch on reloaded ammo tweaked to a specific rifle. I wouldn't expect it to be - and that's why re-loading was critically important to the success of the match.

Had the team been shooting factory ammo, the scores would have been very sadly different and the US would have gone home having been pretty much given a walk-over. As it was, yes, they won the team events, but the margin was relatively tight (exceptionally tight IMO given the shooting CV's and experience of either team).

So, the re-loading was critical to this.

If anyone chose not to avail of the re-loading option, I'd say it was a time/energy/knowledge/funds issue. But I can't think of anyone who was using the factory stuff in the competition. I may be wrong - Lads will have their own reasons for doing one thing or another on a given day and I wouldn't be party to what influences their own decisions on this. So you'd have to ask them directly.

Hope that all helps clarify things and goes some way to setting "the record" straight. If you've more questions, maybe talk to the squad members themselves directly - I'd be pretty sure most of them will be more than helpful......and that way you'd be getting your information from the horses-mouth and not via the chinese-whisper grapevine.:D

:cool: dC

BELOWaverageIQ

Many thanks for the reply dCorbus,
Yes I found what I was told very strange and suspected it was billsh1t but thought id ask as I had heard the same story from a few sources.
Thanks again and well done.
M

Shane.sf

What he means is why didn't all of the team use reloaded ammo and why did the ones that did all use the same eg. Same amount of powder and bullets etc

dCorbus

Shane.sf wrote: »

What he means is why didn't all of the team use reloaded ammo and why did the ones that did all use the same eg. Same amount of powder and bullets etc

I don't follow you? I thought I already pretty clearly explained all that up above.
I know what belowaverageiq was asking and I've explained to the best of my ability and knowledge.

But to repeat myself for your benefit: The team did all use reloaded ammo. They did not all use the same load. They didn't use the same amount of powder. And they didn't all use the same bullets.

Full stop.

belowaverageiq has already responded to my post on this. Have you more questions on this?

Tackleberrywho

What I would like to know

1. What improvement is fire formed brass over Virgin brass
2. If brass was from different manufactures how much difference did the brass make
3. what things made the most noticeable differences to accuracy
4. What did you personally learn most from the reloading experience
5. How long would it take an individual under training and supervision; to become reasonably adept at reloading?

These I hope are more suitable questions for your goodself dC

dCorbus

Don't have enough time under the belt or experience to really answer your questions, tac. Face to face I may be able to explain more.

But I'll try:

1. What improvement is fire formed brass over Virgin brass?

Can't really say. I've been F/L sizing all mine to-date. And all the brass has been f/formed at least once. If you're neck-sizing only (which I hadn't played around yet with), you'll have to be using f/formed brass anyway.

2. If brass was from different manufactures how much difference did the brass make?

Again, no idea - only use one manufacturers brass so far.

3. What things made the most noticeable differences to accuracy?

From what I can tell (so far): CONSISTENCY. All other things are icing on the cake as far as accuracy goes, from what I can tell. But the biggest thing you can do, is do everything exactly the same way for every single round ( and I mean exactly the same way).

And Really, it's still trigger time and practice which makes the most difference.

4. What did you personally learn most from the reloading experience?

That patience is a virtue!
Tedium is draining!
And I'd rather be shooting!

5. How long would it take an individual under training and supervision; to become reasonably adept at reloading?

Adept? Expert? A life-time I'd say.
Competent? Two-three weeks!!:D;)


It's too early to tell. I'm only doing the basic stuff now. And I'm not even sure I'll get into the more-esoteric side of it. Have a gun that works, a load that works - and TBH any amount of tweaking of loads isn't going to fix my lack of wind-reading skills. So, I'll be spending more time on that than I ever will tweaking my loads.

Tackleberrywho

It's an area that fascinates me as I work every day in precision and appreciate the conditions required to create a controlled environment

I would imagine a fairly constant temperature of room for reloading would be advantageous to control the moisture content on the propellent, but that would only be a guess
Even the measuring equipment
Making sure scales were calibrated etc so 1 grain of powder is 1 grain.
The more I learn about reloading the more I think it is an art in and of itself, like cake making
Anyone can make a cake, but it takes Mr Kipling to make exceedingly good cakes if you get me.

I don't know if I could be particular enough to do something as tedious and time consuming.

I often wonder if you leave a box of ammo open and a box closed in your safe and one box ammo heads tarnish, will you see a deviation in accuracy

Or if brass has a magic amount of times when it is truly fire formed, would the second time it's fired will it be the best or third or forth and when will it lose it's usefulness


If two guys were running the same rifle could a load be developed that would be quite good in both rifle, all things being equal.


From a hunters perspective I'd also be very interested in developing a sweet spot for my rifles and a sweet round

Oh well, I guy can dream.........

Shane.sf

dCorbus wrote: »

I don't follow you? I thought I already pretty clearly explained all that up above.
I know what belowaverageiq was asking and I've explained to the best of my ability and knowledge.

But to repeat myself for your benefit: The team did all use reloaded ammo. They did not all use the same load. They didn't use the same amount of powder. And they didn't all use the same bullets.

Full stop.

belowaverageiq has already responded to my post on this. Have you more questions on this?

Sorry that was an accident it was in response to the post before you answered.

Didn't mean to offend you

dCorbus

No worries. No offence taken, shane.:cool: Thanks.

323

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If two guys were running the same rifle could a load be developed that would be quite good in both rifle, all things being equal.


From a hunters perspective I'd also be very interested in developing a sweet spot for my rifles and a sweet round

Oh well, I guy can dream.........

For what it's worth from a purely hunting perspective, used to do exactly this for 2 rifles while living abroad. Had a good load that worked well in both.

dCorbus explained all very well, as for learning, I was shooting best groups ever out of an old remington 25-06 3 days after buying the kit, never did improve on that load.

Used to load shotgun shells a lot also, as that is one place you can get a real saving, especially if/when we have to move to non toxic shot. Just a very slightly more complex procedure.

Then moved back to Ireland so watching this spot and dreaming.

tac foley

Tackleberry writes - It's an area that fascinates me as I work every day in precision and appreciate the conditions required to create a controlled environment

I would imagine a fairly constant temperature of room for reloading would be advantageous to control the moisture content on the propellent, but that would only be a guess

Sir - I carry out my reloading the little shed at the end of my backyard, in all weathers, at all times during the day and well into the night. I've never noticed the slightest difference in the resulting round.

Even the measuring equipment
Making sure scales were calibrated etc so 1 grain of powder is 1 grain.

? A single grain of powder weighs what it weighs, depending on the type of powder it is. Unless you are talking about black powder, which IS an actual powder, modern propellants are nothing like powder. They consist of tiny extruded rods, with microscopic holes down the middle, balls - exactly like VERY tiny marbles, and flakes - all produced that way according to how they are made - as single or double-based products. As I'm pretty certain that you know, a grain is a physical measurement of mass, established back in the reight of Henry III, and there are 7000 grains in a pound.

Most of the reloaders I know, including me, use electronic scales that deliver the precise amount with a press of a button, but there are test pieces supplied with them to check the settings if you move the scales from one location to another.

The more I learn about reloading the more I think it is an art in and of itself, like cake making
Anyone can make a cake, but it takes Mr Kipling to make exceedingly good cakes if you get me.

Could be right. I'm very happy with the product that I produce, having taken great care to do it.

I don't know if I could be particular enough to do something as tedious and time consuming.

I bet you could force yourself if I told you that you could shoot a hundred rounds of .338LM for the price of 20 factory rounds....

I often wonder if you leave a box of ammo open and a box closed in your safe and one box ammo heads tarnish, will you see a deviation in accuracy

If you consider the extra weight of the tarnish on the bullet and take it into account when shooting it....even the very best match bullets from Lapua, Berger, JLK and so on vary FAR more than the weight of a different colour...

Or if brass has a magic amount of times when it is truly fire formed, would the second time it's fired will it be the best or third or forth and when will it lose it's usefulness

You only need to fire-form a case once. Thereafter you perform neck-sizing only - that is why you fire-form in the first place. Many BR shooters mark the base of the case prior to fire-forming, so that they can use that case in the gun in precisely the same position in the breech every time. A trifle anal, IMO, but who am I to tell them different? I have thrown away perfectly usable Lapua and Norma cases that have been fired eight or ten times, simply because I felt that they had 'done their duty'. My current crop of 100 Lapua cases are on their third reload as we speak.

If two guys were running the same rifle could a load be developed that would be quite good in both rifle, all things being equal.

Yes indeed, a shooting pal of mine and I have identical Kricos, and we share a commonly excellent load with one particular bullet weight.

From a hunters perspective I'd also be very interested in developing a sweet spot for my rifles and a sweet round

...and THAT, Mr Minister, is why I'd like to be able to reload my own cartridges.

tac