Actioncoach Ireland

shaunandelly

Actioncoach Ireland. What do we know about this crowd?

HellFireClub

You got a link? :rolleyes:

Kinetic^

http://www.actioncoachireland.com/


I've heard some good stories from a few people who have used them. It's generally a case of them showing you what needs to be done but if you don't implement or change what you're doing wrong then it will be a waste of money.

HellFireClub

It looks like a heavily Americanised franchise model, I'd be cautious of it, I'm sure it's nothing you couldn't tell yourself to do if you read a few good books over the weekend and gave yourself a boot up the ass!

Any idea of what they charge?

Just watching the video clip here, "I helped my client improve their profit by 1,089%"...

I'm always wary of these kind of f*ckers, if they have all the answer's, why are they not running businesses themselves that are highly successful!?!?!

I think if you are an entrepreneur, THEN YOU ARE THE COACH!!!

shaunandelly

mmm....yeh. I think the relevance of the advice and the experience of the advisor is the thing. If they are just churn and burn franchisees then..
I notice their web presence seems heavily "rinsed". Tend to think twice when all you can find is self congratulatory posts.

shaunandelly

funnily enough,same question on a different site has already "Disappeared"

RUDOLF289

HellFireClub wrote: »

It looks like a heavily Americanised franchise model, I'd be cautious of it, I'm sure it's nothing you couldn't tell yourself to do if you read a few good books over the weekend and gave yourself a boot up the ass!

Any idea of what they charge?

Just watching the video clip here, "I helped my client improve their profit by 1,089%"...

I'm always wary of these kind of f*ckers, if they have all the answer's, why are they not running businesses themselves that are highly successful!?!?!

I think if you are an entrepreneur, THEN YOU ARE THE COACH!!!

Hi HellfireClub,

What do you think Actioncoach is? I think it sounds very much like a business ....... Or am I missing something?

I know my business very well but I reckon somebody who has involvement in a wide range of businesses is able to bring a different perspective on my business. And I have come to the conclusion I don't know it all and I know it is easy to go off track. Having somebody available to provide a sounding board and good advice I think is a good thing.

My understanding is, if they don't save you enough money or improve your business at a minimum to the amount of their fee, they won't charge. And by the way, the owner is Australian .....

I think that is a reasonable approach.

Cheers,
Rudolf289

shaunandelly

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

Hi HellfireClub,

What do you think Actioncoach is? I think it sounds very much like a business ....... Or am I missing something?

I know my business very well but I reckon somebody who has involvement in a wide range of businesses is able to bring a different perspective on my business. And I have come to the conclusion I don't know it all and I know it is easy to go off track. Having somebody available to provide a sounding board and good advice I think is a good thing.

My understanding is, if they don't save you enough money or improve your business at a minimum to the amount of their fee, they won't charge. And by the way, the owner is Australian .....

I think that is a reasonable approach.

Cheers,
Rudolf289

Reasonable approach indeed...........but what are the methods ?

Kinetic^

shaunandelly wrote: »

Reasonable approach indeed...........but what are the methods ?

I'd imagine it varies from one company to the next. Location, industry, type of owner are only some of the variables. If it's a no win/no fee basis then if someone as struggling it would be worth a shot.

RUDOLF289

shaunandelly wrote: »

Reasonable approach indeed...........but what are the methods ?

First off they start with a very comprehensive questionaire. They interview you and establish what your goals are for your business. They do an analysis of your expenditure, overheads. They look at your sales. They establish what is working, what is not. From that they help you formulate a plan of action. Nothing grandiose, but something that is measurable with clearly defined goals.

Essentially they hold you accountable for that plan of action. They certainly don't ram anything down your throat or dictate what you should do.

I would suggest to have an initial consult with one of their coaches. If you're based in Cork I would be happy to introduce you to the action coach I know.

One final point. They are not just for companies that are struggling although that is where they probably will have the most value initially. They also help succesful companies that want to expand.

Cheers,
Rudolf289

shaunandelly

I am observing the process from a safe distance at the moment.

HellFireClub

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

First off they start with a very comprehensive questionaire. They interview you and establish what your goals are for your business. They do an analysis of your expenditure, overheads. They look at your sales. They establish what is working, what is not. From that they help you formulate a plan of action. Nothing grandiose, but something that is measurable with clearly defined goals.

Essentially they hold you accountable for that plan of action. They certainly don't ram anything down your throat or dictate what you should do.

I would suggest to have an initial consult with one of their coaches. If you're based in Cork I would be happy to introduce you to the action coach I know.

One final point. They are not just for companies that are struggling although that is where they probably will have the most value initially. They also help succesful companies that want to expand.

Cheers,
Rudolf289

Have to say I'm a bit of a puritan when it comes to this stuff. I think you genuinely need to learn some lessons for yourself, the School of Hard Knocks/Academy of Life kind of stuff, and no moreso than if starting up or running your own business.

I don't agree with these short cuts where someone who has possibly never been through the process of a start-up, can claim to have the answers and then offer to sell them to you. I feel the same way about franchising...

As the man says, "show me a man who has not failed, and I'll show you a man who has not lived!" :cool:

Kinetic^

HellFireClub wrote: »

Have to say I'm a bit of a puritan when it comes to this stuff. I think you genuinely need to learn some lessons for yourself, the School of Hard Knocks/Academy of Life kind of stuff, and no moreso than if starting up or running your own business.

I don't agree with these short cuts where someone who has possibly never been through the process of a start-up, can claim to have the answers and then offer to sell them to you. I feel the same way about franchising...

As the man says, "show me a man who has not failed, and I'll show you a man who has not lived!" :cool:

People need help, whether it's help selling, collecting money or building a website. If a business coach can provide results then so be it. From speaking with a few of them in the past, most won't touch startups because as you put it, they've to learn some lessons themselves.

HellFireClub

Kinetic^ wrote: »

People need help, whether it's help selling, collecting money or building a website. If a business coach can provide results then so be it. From speaking with a few of them in the past, most won't touch startups because as you put it, they've to learn some lessons themselves.

To me, starting a business from scratch, FAILING, and doing it again, is the ultimate qualification in life. NOTHING is as stressful as getting a business off the ground I reckon.

I think if you tried and failed, then notwithstanding that, you would still have learnt a lot more about running a business, and in particular about how NOT to do things as opposed to what is the "right thing" to do, than any "guru" who has done some franchisee course and wants to sell you advise...

Kinetic^

HellFireClub wrote: »

To me, starting a business from scratch, FAILING, and doing it again, is the ultimate qualification in life. NOTHING is as stressful as getting a business off the ground I reckon.

I think if you tried and failed, then notwithstanding that, you would still have learnt a lot more about running a business, and in particular about how NOT to do things as opposed to what is the "right thing" to do, than any "guru" who has done some franchisee course and wants to sell you advise...

As was stated, if you don't gain, either do they.

shaunandelly

But..if the advice is bad then it's a case of heads we win tails you lose. Where is the adviser's risk ?

HellFireClub

Kinetic^ wrote: »

As was stated, if you don't gain, either do they.

Yeah but the least of your problems will be these consultancy fee's if the advice is wrong and here's an example of where the advice can be honestly, but equally catastrophically wrong... Say you are in business 1 year, it's been very hard, and you've been losing money every month, but you have equally been busy but not consistently, it's been up and down, but you are putting your losses down to the recession and you are listening to the news every day waiting for some good news on consumer confidence or the economy in the hope that things will pick up and that the business can become consistently busy and stop losing money.

Sofar this year, you have put in 20K of your own money to stay at the races, pay the rent, pay staff, etc.

You are down to 30K now in your personal bank account in terms of savings and money that you have available to support your business through this recession and hopefully ride it out.

This was my situation once, and I put that last 30K into a business that I had to close down within the next 12 months. The best advice I could have been given was to cut my losses and get the fúck out of it much sooner, I didn't even enjoy running the business, I had come to hate it because of the type of business it was and the type of customers that I had.

In hindsight, anyone who came along who might have advised me to "try this and to try that and here's a plan for you", would have been doing me a huge disservice. Any advice other than, "close this down immediately and get the fúck out of it", would have been the wrong advice.

I know it's harsh to give such advice and it's always hard to hear it, but there is often a time when this advice is appropriate and right. Now, a few years on, I'm running a business that I actually enjoy and is profitable, notwithstanding this recession.

I just fear that when it comes to business mentoring and the likes, someone would read such a situation and try to motivate someone who was in the same situation as myself, into continuing on with something that they were unhappy in and also losing their shirt on...

EamonOSullivan

Folks

What a business adviser can bring is experience in helping your business by applying common sense and also lessons they have learnt from other busineses.

You dont need to go to any of the franchised coaches, but they do have a formula that they work to, and they hold you accountable for your actions. They often force you to carry out actions because you have made a comittment to them to do so, which can be very valuable.

Generally I think most people will agree that business people are process orientated, but dont necessarily have a good world view of their business. In other words they know how to 'do the doing' part of the business, but don't understand that there are many other aspects of the business they are trying to run.

An example might be a car mechanic who has to turn his hand to marketing, administration, accountancy and so on in his daily routine, although he has had no training on any of these aspects.

HellFireClub

EamonOSullivan wrote: »

Folks

What a business adviser can bring is experience in helping your business by applying common sense and also lessons they have learnt from other busineses.

You dont need to go to any of the franchised coaches, but they do have a formula that they work to, and they hold you accountable for your actions. They often force you to carry out actions because you have made a comittment to them to do so, which can be very valuable.

Generally I think most people will agree that business people are process orientated, but dont necessarily have a good world view of their business. In other words they know how to 'do the doing' part of the business, but don't understand that there are many other aspects of the business they are trying to run.

An example might be a car mechanic who has to turn his hand to marketing, administration, accountancy and so on in his daily routine, although he has had no training on any of these aspects.

None of the above though deals with the fact that a lot of business are failing at the moment because the model that they were started up on is an unsuccessful business model. I really don't see how people involved in a franchise organisation, who are not intimately aware of your industry, can expect to be taken seriously when they try to advise a client. There was a series on RTE recently where Fergal Quinn was involved in advising small retailers who were struggling with their businesses, how to make changes to their business that would help them improve. It obviously worked because you had someone with intimate industry knowledge that was relevant, advising someone who respected him for that. There was a similar RTE series based on two brothers who ran hotels, going into small B&B's and restaurants and helping people turn their loss making businesses around but it worked for the same reason, which is respect for DEMONSTRATED achievement in a particular industry.

You can't just hype up these same kind of achievements with a flashy website and some gloriously sounding results like, "I increased my profits by 1,280% in a month" or whatever. People who would accept these kind of supposed credentials without any particular knowledge of your own industry or field on the part of the advisor, I think are incredibly naive.

EamonOSullivan

Hellfire

It looks like we are in agreement on a lot of the headings there; you make a lot of sense.
Having said that, don't underestimate what an experienced operator can bring to a business no matter what their background. This applies even if they haven't run a business in that particular sector because they may know what other successful businesses in that industry do to be successful.

Another point - do you think you could get Fergal Quinn or the brothers that help hoteliers to work on your business (or mine) for what 'ordinary' coaches or advisers would charge? I think these highly successful individuals would charge a lot more than action coaches.

The phrase (or joke) springs to mind -

'How many business coaches does it take to change a light bulb? One, but the light bulb must want to change'

- lots of people know what to do but just decide to 'stay stuck' in their old ways. Sometimes it does require the much-vaunted kick up the backside, but not everyone can self-administer that particular dose.

Admor Tony

HellFireClub wrote: »

I just fear that when it comes to business mentoring and the likes, someone would read such a situation and try to motivate someone who was in the same situation as myself, into continuing on with something that they were unhappy in and also losing their shirt on...

I am not an Action Coach but I am a Business Mentor and panel registered with a number of organisations. So surprise, surprise I am a very strong believer in Business Mentoring. (BTW I will not in this post try to explain the important differences between a Coach and a Mentor).

Your post suggests to me that a Mentor should by default advise all business owners who are losing money to close down. While you also say in your case the only correct advice was to close it, this is not true for all.

As a Business Mentor (not 'Coach'), I complete an initial Healthcheck (for free) which will allow me to critically assess if the owner believes in the business or not, the Business Model is correct and what they need to do about it. If the owner suggests the business has no future and I concur or if I sense the business has no future or the owner will not 'work' with me to make the changes, I will walk away then so as it wastes nobody's time or money. The process is two way and ongoing after that and I will continually assess if the business has a future or not. As a qualified accountant, I can particularly focus on financials.

As for the risks I take, my Professional Indemnity Insurance covers that.

In my opinion very many business failures are down to owners not getting an independent overview of their business at an early enough stage. They cannot take the objective view you took, spend too much time firefighting and often leave it too late for something to be done.

HellFireClub

Admor Tony wrote: »

HellFireClub wrote: »

I just fear that when it comes to business mentoring and the likes, someone would read such a situation and try to motivate someone who was in the same situation as myself, into continuing on with something that they were unhappy in and also losing their shirt on...

I am not an Action Coach but I am a Business Mentor and panel registered with a number of organisations. So surprise, surprise I am a very strong believer in Business Mentoring. (BTW I will not in this post try to explain the important differences between a Coach and a Mentor).

Your post suggests to me that a Mentor should by default advise all business owners who are losing money to close down. While you also say in your case the only correct advice was to close it, this is not true for all.

As a Business Mentor (not 'Coach'), I complete an initial Healthcheck (for free) which will allow me to critically assess if the owner believes in the business or not, the Business Model is correct and what they need to do about it. If the owner suggests the business has no future and I concur or if I sense the business has no future or the owner will not 'work' with me to make the changes, I will walk away then so as it wastes nobody's time or money. The process is two way and ongoing after that and I will continually assess if the business has a future or not. As a qualified accountant, I can particularly focus on financials.

As for the risks I take, my Professional Indemnity Insurance covers that.

In my opinion very many business failures are down to owners not getting an independent overview of their business at an early enough stage. They cannot take the objective view you took, spend too much time firefighting and often leave it too late for something to be done.

My accountant (who I consider to be an excellent accountant I might add), said to me that he tells all his customers that if he understood their business better than they did, he would be running a business such as theirs and not an accountancy practice.

I don't believe you (I don't mean this personally), are qualified in terms of specific industrial knowledge, to be able to honestly say that you can help people decide whether to stay open or close down. You can't be a specialist in every industry and you can't advise someone in a particular industry if you have no intimate knowledge of how the customers in that industry think and act. This kind of stuff is extremely complex I think and passing it off as some kind of a "black art" I think it just plain wrong.

IRE60

"My accountant (who I consider to be an excellent accountant I might add), said to me that he tells all his customers that if he understood their business better than they did, he would be running a business such as theirs and not an accountancy practice."

Love that!

As they say in Tipp - "there's always hurlers on the hitch" - never made the team, but are still able to bark instructions from the sidelines.

shaunandelly

From what I can see so far the "plan" is being driven forward by this mechanism...relentlessly...............................but is fatally flawed.
The result could well be that the advisor walks away from a train wreck and shrugs his shoulders. No win no fee is one thing,but no win no consequences is another.

Admor Tony

HellFireClub wrote: »

My accountant (who I consider to be an excellent accountant I might add), said to me that he tells all his customers that if he understood their business better than they did, he would be running a business such as theirs and not an accountancy practice.

I don't believe you (I don't mean this personally), are qualified in terms of specific industrial knowledge, to be able to honestly say that you can help people decide whether to stay open or close down. You can't be a specialist in every industry and you can't advise someone in a particular industry if you have no intimate knowledge of how the customers in that industry think and act. This kind of stuff is extremely complex I think and passing it off as some kind of a "black art" I think it just plain wrong.

First HellFireClub, I do not take it personally, rather I enjoy the debate and challenge.

Strange as it may seem, I totally agree with your accountant. I also agree that I am not a specialist in every industry.

Where I disagree is where you say I cannot give advice to business owners and obviously your comment that I am passing this off as some form of "black art".

I cannot speak for other advisers but I at one time (10+ years ago) was a 'traditional bank manager' with overall responsibility for over 700 businesses of all shapes and sizes from all industries. Some borrowed money, some didn't. I visited hundreds of those, reviewed business plans for many existing and start-ups and saw many businesses fail with the resultant negative outcomes. In my experience most actually failed due to poor management decisions and poor management controls rather than a lack of available finance.

Almost all of the business owners were good at their 'core' skill and industry i.e. making garden furniture, selling cars, printing or whatever but most also admitted to not being so experienced at (or interested in) the broader business issues like finance, marketing, administration etc.

I offer advice in the latter areas that I actually believe are largely common to every industry and I believe lack of attention to this area still remains a common reason why businesses fail, especially when the industry matters are complex.

EamonOSullivan

You certainly have a lot of common sense Tony. I'd say the training as a bank manager helped, as did your training as an accountant.

As to earlier comments about accountants not knowing enough about a business to run one, yes that can be right. However if an accountant or adviser can pick out a handful of issues that are having a major effect on the business, then that must be worthwhile.

Repeating whats already been said here, and also in various books ( e.g. The Emyth ) - just knowing how to ''do the doing'' of a business is simply not enough, you have to have a smattering of other skills and qualities to run your own business sucessfully.

shaunandelly

An Accountant's solution....race to the bottom. Unless of course there is an oversupply of accountants. Don't use the same ones that stress tested the Banks.

JD Dublin

shaunandelly wrote: »

An Accountant's solution....race to the bottom. Unless of course there is an oversupply of accountants. Don't use the same ones that stress tested the Banks.

shaunandelly you add very little to the debate aside from throwing in the odd stick of dynamite. Do you have any views apart from having a rant?

The oversupply of accountants applies to most walks of life - take the 293,000 officially unemployed according to the Central Statistice Office - there must be a few accountants in there, eh?

shaunandelly

JD Dublin wrote: »

shaunandelly you add very little to the debate aside from throwing in the odd stick of dynamite. Do you have any views apart from having a rant?

The oversupply of accountants applies to most walks of life - take the 293,000 officially unemployed according to the Central Statistice Office - there must be a few accountants in there, eh?

That's actually quite funny considering this is your first post on this thread.
Have you ever been fishing with a stick of dynamite ? Don't worry it'll all be alright in the end.

JD Dublin

shaunandelly wrote: »

That's actually quite funny considering this is your first post on this thread.
Have you ever been fishing with a stick of dynamite ? Don't worry it'll all be alright in the end.

Thanks that answers my question.

shaunandelly

The business ethos for a long time in sales driven organisations has been sign up first and worry later. How would this fit in with any "plan" ? I have seen the usual hierarchical graphic representations with trust at the bottom but the "plan" drives everything and is higher up the pyramid. I use the the word pyramid with caution. Why do they always use pyramids ? I mean I know why they use pyramids, but business structures are far more complicated than that.