9% VAT name and shame thread

inforfun

Company: not passing on VAT reduction.
Government: Ok, we set VAT back to 13,5% because you didnt pass the cut on
Company: Raising prices with another 4,5%

I can very easily see this happening.

I dont care about all those coffee companies like Costa not passing on the 4,5%. Dont buy their coffee anyway. 13,5% or 9% VAT, still overpriced dish washer water.

rubadub

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

It is an administrative burden. The only impact on their business is cashflow being tied up.

VAT has no impact on the profitability of the business.

If its an administrative burden then surely it probably does effect profitability. It costs money for processing a price change e.g redoing fancy menus and price displays, throwing out old printed menus, changing accounts software, till price software, prices online (if they have them).

Now on larger priced items this cost could be small in comparison to the VAT difference. But if some place had to change the price on a low volume selling 10cent item, they may end up having to charge you more than the original price to compensate for the price change admin costs.

In the US they have sales tax which is usually added at the till, so they could change the VAT and it would be more transparent, and possibly easier for shops to deal with -though I hate that system in the US.

When the change in duty happened on alcohol the minister gave an empty threat about revoking it if not passed on, most offies did pass it on for a few weeks or so and then prices reverted back to normal, e.g. €1 cans dropped to 90something cent, a few weeks on they were €1 again.

Jimbob1977

rubadub wrote: »

If its an administrative burden then surely it probably does effect profitability. It costs money for processing a price change e.g redoing fancy menus and price displays, throwing out old printed menus, changing accounts software, till price software, prices online (if they have them).

Now on larger priced items this cost could be small in comparison to the VAT difference. But if some place had to change the price on a low volume selling 10cent item, they may end up having to charge you more than the original price to compensate for the price change admin costs.

In the US they have sales tax which is usually added at the till, so they could change the VAT and it would be more transparent, and possibly easier for shops to deal with -though I hate that system in the US.

When the change in duty happened on alcohol the minister gave an empty threat about revoking it if not passed on, most offies did pass it on for a few weeks or so and then prices reverted back to normal, e.g. €1 cans dropped to 90something cent, a few weeks on they were €1 again.

It might affect profitability in the sense that you could miss an investment opportunity or the chance to buy products at a preferable rate while the money (cashflow) is tied up with Irish Revenue for refund/payment.

However, in the purely tax and accounting sense of the word, VAT has a cashflow impact only. The customer is the sufferer, the business is the collector and Irish Revenue is the beneficiary.

VAT does not affect profitability - unless you fail to pass on a VAT reduction and "pocket the change" like many companies have opted for:)

bcirl03

unknownlegend wrote: »

Noticed a few places like Munchies have so ill be moving my custom there now.

Ditto here - was getting my coffee at Insomnia but after listening to Bobby Kerr whine on Newstalk this morning about why he's not passing on the tax cut it'll be Munchies for me.

fatboypee

bcirl03 wrote: »

Ditto here - was getting my coffee at Insomnia but after listening to Bobby Kerr whine on Newstalk this morning about why he's not passing on the tax cut it'll be Munchies for me.

Listening back to Bobby Kerr now. Absolute dick IMHO. No concept whatsoever that he's effectively putting up his prices by taking Vat reductions not intended to prop him up. Gonna cost him, unless he does pass it on..

mayfire

Nanazolie wrote: »

this thread shows that most people know the price of the food they get on a regular basis. Also, I think lots of customers were hoping for a price decrease and have suffered bitter disapointment.
Yes, you are right, some places claim to have reduced the VAT, but they in return have increased their base prices so it cancels out the reduction. Cheeky. I bet that if the VAT reduction is reversed, they will be quite prompt to raise their prices claiming that the VAT went up and they can do nothing about it

Yes, do you remember when the Gov. dropped the VAT from 21% to 20% and nothing happened to the prices in the shops?? Then the Minister got angry and returned the rate to 21% and the VAT increase was immediately added on!

toby08

the consumer has been caught again, very few of the retail grabbers have passed it on .............if the vat were to be increased again it would guarentee a nice 4.5% profit.

animaal

As things stand, my pension funds are being transferred into the pockets of uncompetitive retailers. I have no choice in the matter.

Let the government raise the VAT rate again. These retailers can choose to raise their prices if they wish, and I can choose whether or not to purchase their goods/services.

DubTony

Bobby Kerr has left his brain in the OFF position on this one. He has to be THE most high profile coffee shop owner in the country, and he makes the comparison with Starbucks to show how cheap he is. Well, cheap is the word. For the sake of 8c off a €2 hot drink this idiot has gotten too much bad press in the last few days.

Now the question is, does the non reduction in VAT at Insomnia pay enough to cover the number of customers lost?

By the way, this guy offers business mentoring on his web site.

maxer68

mayfire wrote: »

Yes, do you remember when the Gov. dropped the VAT from 21% to 20% and nothing happened to the prices in the shops?? Then the Minister got angry and returned the rate to 21% and the VAT increase was immediately added on!

The problem with a 1% drop is it is too little. A €1.99 item becomes €1.97, a €9.95 item become €9.86 - the difference was too small. Same when the vat rate rose to 21.5% - no-one rose the prices for the same reason. The €1.95 item did not rise to 1.96 and the 9.95 item did not rise to €10.

On the current reduction, the difference is big enough to make a noticeable difference and unfortunately theer seem to be a few big name coffee houses and restaurants that are giving the 2 fingers to their customers. - Insomnia & Butlers being the most obvious.

Maybe someone with time can set up a facebook page railing against the bigger names that have used the vat reduction to increase their profits.

Jimmy Garlic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGE4dnrPPZQ

Misticles

Brasserie 66 on Georges Street offering double the vat reduction (8%) off your next purchase.

Nanazolie

Hugues & Hugues haven't reduced their magazines

Lisa2011

Went to hairdressers yesterday and paid the same price.

I dont think many small businesses will pass on the reduction as they are already struggling.

maxer68

Lisa2011 wrote: »

Went to hairdressers yesterday and paid the same price.

I dont think many small businesses will pass on the reduction as they are already struggling.

But if they reduced their prices more people would get their hair done. - They get busier and then they are no longer struggling!

Red Alert

We'd have seen much more reductions if VAT here was done like GST in the US, where the tax is separate. Makes working out prices a pain though

DubTony

maxer68 wrote: »

The problem with a 1% drop is it is too little. A €1.99 item becomes €1.97, a €9.95 item become €9.86 - the difference was too small. Same when the vat rate rose to 21.5% - no-one rose the prices for the same reason. The €1.95 item did not rise to 1.96 and the 9.95 item did not rise to €10.

On the current reduction, the difference is big enough to make a noticeable difference and unfortunately theer seem to be a few big name coffee houses and restaurants that are giving the 2 fingers to their customers. - Insomnia & Butlers being the most obvious.

Maybe someone with time can set up a facebook page railing against the bigger names that have used the vat reduction to increase their profits.

Great analysis. 1% reductions and increases are simply cynical exercise by government to make themselves look good. The only time a customer notices a saving is on a major purchase. But even a €1000 fridge would only see a reduction of €10 with a 1% VAT reduction. The VAT reduction in this instance is 4 and a half times that and has been well publicised by government and retailer associations alike (especially restaurants). Irrespective of how a business is doing, they shouldn't be calculating VAT into their margins.

The problem for small coffee shops and the like is that the reduction doesn't make a great deal of difference to the price list on the wall, and there is a one-off cost of correcting menus and signs. Having said that, by not passing on the VAT reduction (actually increasing prices) those retailers are doing themselves no favours, and people should vote with their feet.

Red Alert wrote:

We'd have seen much more reductions if VAT here was done like GST in the US, where the tax is separate. Makes working out prices a pain though

The EU has legislated that VAT be a hidden tax. This is why most VAT rates in Europe are more than double the average sales tax in the USA. Can you imagine going to the counter with a €200 DVD Player and the guy tells you it's €242? People would have a fit. Hence the hidden tax. That €1000 fridge I mentioned is actually €826 + TAX. IMO all taxes should be visible, just like the American system.

Lisa2011

maxer68 wrote: »

But if they reduced their prices more people would get their hair done. - They get busier and then they are no longer struggling!

Very true but they dont see it that way. They will just pocket the difference between the two vat rates.

I am all for passing on the vat cut but there are people who argue against it and here is an article for anyone interested

http://irishtaxnews.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-vat-reduction-the-argument-for-not-passing-it-on-but-instead-using-it-to-increase-employment/

Le_Dieux

bcirl03 wrote: »

Ditto here - was getting my coffee at Insomnia but after listening to Bobby Kerr whine on Newstalk this morning about why he's not passing on the tax cut it'll be Munchies for me.

Please excuse my total ignorance, but who the hell is Bobby Kerr?

toby08

i think I am getting cynical.......bottom line out of 38 places i have checked in the last 3 days only one business has reduced prices in line with the vat changes........to me that means most business have got a 4.5% increase, i wouldn't mind a 2% pay increase this year let alone 4.5. Take this in combination with the free labour scheme (internship) Fine Gael seem to be trying to keep one pre-election promise (the only one i think) of helping out small business. Why dont they just come out call a spade a spade the ordinary person might have more respect then. FF treated the people like mushrooms and where are they now...

howiya

Jacks Barbers on Store Street have not reduced their prices

uck51js9zml2yt

I was talking to a friend whi has a hairdressers about the VAT issue.

Not all business pay VAT and would not therefore be reducing their prices.

Royal Dub

Bon Expresso, East Point Business Park, Dublin 3

No reduction in any of their prices

howiya

Anabelle Few Met wrote: »

I was talking to a friend whi has a hairdressers about the VAT issue.

Not all business pay VAT and would not therefore be reducing their prices.

With the revenue press release specifically mentioning hair dressing services among others it is not unreasonable for consumers to expect their barber/hair dresser to reduce their prices.

Consumers are not aware of whether businesses are registered for VAT or not and therefore will assume that their barber/hairdresser is not passing on the reduction and may vote with their feet to go to a cheaper service provider.

While I accept that margins are tight for small businesses it may be in their interest to be seen to be reducing prices if their competitors are.

Fighting Irish

animaal wrote: »

Sure. And people can shop where they want. And share information on the pricing policies of any establishment. What do retailers not get about this?

I'm not a retailer btw. But ye that's fair enough but don't complain about prices!(not you, just people in general)

sirreally

The government will have to raise extra taxes in the next budget to offset what they will lose by reducing the VAT rate. Therefore, retailers who are not passing on the VAT reduction are taking money out of our pockets.

I suggest we publicly petition the government to reverse the VAT reduction, unless the vast majority of retailers pass it on immediately.

Here are a couple more examples for name & shame:

Fixx coffee shop, Dawson Street, Dublin 2.
D4 Berkeley Court Hotel, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4.

Victor_M

Carlton hotel Galway

Room rate increased to absorb the VAT reduction, my reservation from 3 months ago, had a room rate and vat break down, when I went to pay the bill the total owed was the same, but the room rate had gone up and the VAT down.

I have just emailed a complaint to the hotel and CC'd Leo Varadakar.

Edit & Update: hotel got back to me and said that it was an oversight on my bill as I had made a reservation prior to the rate change they had to manually amend some bills and they had incorrectly amended my one. Hope that's true but suffice to say 9% rate will be used by them from now on.

the varg

Cummiskeys Pub, Blackhorse Ave, Dublin 7 have actually increased the cost of carvery meal by 50 cent. Miserable shower of feckers

sionn

sirreally wrote: »

The government will have to raise extra taxes in the next budget to offset what they will lose by reducing the VAT rate. Therefore, retailers who are not passing on the VAT reduction are taking money out of our pockets.

I suggest we publicly petition the government to reverse the VAT reduction, unless the vast majority of retailers pass it on immediately.

Here are a couple more examples for name & shame:

Fixx coffee shop, Dawson Street, Dublin 2.
D4 Berkeley Court Hotel, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4.

Just had lunch in Fixx and cost me under 9.90, the same coffee and sandwich i always have. It used to cost me 10.40 so the VAT reduction must have been passed on

rossc007

Subway in Naas havent passed on the savings, cost me 8.14 for a sub and a coke... they've stopped giving out receipts unless requested too!

Edit: Disregard, nothing to be passed on for cold sambo's Maxer has informed me, sorry Subway, I'll be back