Should religion be taught in schools?

Son Of A Vidic

philologos wrote: »

Here we go again :pac:

Ah no, sure we've been due one of these threads.....it's been a while.

Craebear

Bring back corporal punishment and bate the fear of god into the little feckers!

rainbow kirby

Indoctrination? No. If parents want their children to be prepared for Catholic sacraments/learn to read the Quran/whatever, do that outside of school. I've no problem with "this is what X religion believes, this is how it influences Y society" being taught as part of a social studies/history class though.

Sonnenblumen

c_man wrote: »

You mean like Christians did to the Druids?


We didn't do science in Primary school. We did spend at least an hour daily learning 'facts' about God and what he does/doesn't like. Laughable really.

Knowledge economy baby :pac:

No imagination? No worries, Jesus loves you:)

PK2008

Ever considered the possibility that we're just a nation of thicko's

Birroc

[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful[/FONT][FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]
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Birroc

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Ah no, sure we've been due one of these threads.....it's been a while.

A lot to talk about after thousands of years of delusion.

philologos

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Indoctrination? No. If parents want their children to be prepared for Catholic sacraments/learn to read the Quran/whatever, do that outside of school. I've no problem with "this is what X religion believes, this is how it influences Y society" being taught as part of a social studies/history class though.

I'm still hugely perplexed as to the hyperbolic use of "indoctrination" by some on boards.

Learning about Christianity or Islam is hardly the same thing as forcing someone to accept belief in it.

flutterflye

I don't know which answer to click.

I do not think that indoctrination should be taught.

But I think it is vital to learn about the different religions, in a factual, yet fun and engaging manner.
I believe this would promote tolerance and respect for others opinions and beliefs.
I think that at christmas, all the children should celebrate christmas, at ramadan, they should celebrate it, and so on, especially if any children in the class are of a particular faith.
They should be encouraged to openly discuss different religions, learning about them, questioning them, maybe visiting religious sites or worship grounds.

There is alot to be learned from each religion out there.
There is no harm in learning about them, and from them.
You can take on aspects from all, some, or none of them.
It opens your mind, broadens your knowledge and understanding of others, and can help you to become more fulfilled.

But, religious indoctrination has absolutely no place in a school.
If you are of a particular religious faith, you send your child to classes after school, or you just teach them yourself.

The only way that religion should be part of schooling, is if it is taught just like history, social studies, cspe, and so on.

'Catholics believe..........' instead of 'We believe.........' and so on.

goodomens

The problem is when a child isn't brought up in a certain faith, this leaves a vacuum. A void that will be filled by another belief system. There is no such thing as a child growing up, reaching 18 and then deciding on what they will believe, by the age of seven, this will already be decided. So it makes sense that a parent will bring up their child in the faith they know best.

Knowing more about other religions will actually strengthen one's faith as they learn the differences between them, each religions goals, and obvious fruits that they bring. Learning about other world religions has strengthened my faith enormously.

Yes.

KeithAFC

Yes. All homo sapiens should be taught religion in school.

Chuck Stone

Deleted User wrote: »

Round and round we go again.

Tough sh*t OP. Religion is taught in schools. Militant atheism isn't.

Wanna change that? It's been tried. By Stalin.

This is all fcuked up^^. Stalin was a communist dictator who murdered people because he was a sadist. Nobody is calling for the murder of theists - just the removal of superstitious nonsense being taught in schools as a credible subject.

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Indoctrination? No. If parents want their children to be prepared for Catholic sacraments/learn to read the Quran/whatever, do that outside of school. I've no problem with "this is what X religion believes, this is how it influences Y society" being taught as part of a social studies/history class though.

This was exactly what I was going to write. Religion should be considered as a curious by-product of human interaction.

I think people who have secular views should step up to the plate and start calling religious people out on their psychological* and physical** abuse of children whether it's in state sponsored schools or not.



*Telling children that because they were born bad a man was tortured and murdered on a cross 2000 years ago. (Such nasty minded rubbish).

**Genital mutilation.

Chuck Stone

KeithAFC wrote: »

Yes. All homo sapiens should be taught religion in school.

Neanderthal opinion.

That Handsome Devil

philologos wrote: »

I'm still hugely perplexed as to the hyperbolic use of "indoctrination" by some on boards.

Learning about Christianity or Islam is hardly the same thing as forcing someone to accept belief in it.

Of course its not, but there's also a difference between "We can see from X bible verse that Christians believe A B and C about Jesus" and "Jesus, our Lord God and Saviour, displays his glory again in verse X." The first of which I have no problem with, and I would in fact want it to be mandatory. The second, however, is what I have an issue with. As an LC Religion student, its not as much as an issue as many non-religious people in my class have made up their own minds. However, for Junior, Senior infants etc. they are a lot more impressionable.

I don't believe learning about Religion is crap though, I would in fact go as far to say its necessary in the multi-cultural society that we live in, and that its foolish to remain ignorant of what others believe. However, there is a difference between being informed about all religions, and secular systems (secular humanism etc.), something which I think is great, and being instructed in the Catholic/Islam/Whatever faith where you are told as if its wholly factually true. (Jesus is our saviour vs Christians believe Jesus is the saviour of the world)

celticcrash

mindfullness, meditation, not religion, show them how the mind works, 16 to 20 years of schooling, learning about the outside world and how to control it and people cant control their own emotions.

philologos

That Handsome Devil wrote: »

Of course its not, but there's also a difference between "We can see from X bible verse that Christians believe A B and C about Jesus" and "Jesus, our Lord God and Saviour, displays his glory again in verse X." The first of which I have no problem with, and I would in fact want it to be mandatory. The second, however, is what I have an issue with. As an LC Religion student, its not as much as an issue as many non-religious people in my class have made up their own minds. However, for Junior, Senior infants etc. they are a lot more impressionable.

It's a simple difference and a difference I would actually advocate even for faith schools. Christians believe X is a better approach and it allows people to consider it that way.

That Handsome Devil wrote: »

I don't believe learning about Religion is crap though, I would in fact go as far to say its necessary in the multi-cultural society that we live in, and that its foolish to remain ignorant of what others believe. However, there is a difference between being informed about all religions, and secular systems (secular humanism etc.), something which I think is great, and being instructed in the Catholic/Islam/Whatever faith where you are told as if its wholly factually true. (Jesus is our saviour vs Christians believe Jesus is the saviour of the world)

I feel this is reasonable, even in the case of faith schools so I'm not arguing with you. Even in a Christian ethos school it's possible to say Christians believe X and Muslims believe Y and Jews believe Z. I have no issue with this. The school can still operate on a Christian ethos while doing this.

We pretty much agree 100% on how R.E should be taught in school.

That Handsome Devil

philologos wrote: »

It's a simple difference and a difference I would actually advocate even for faith schools. Christians believe X is a better approach and it allows people to consider it that way.



I feel this is reasonable, even in the case of faith schools so I'm not arguing with you. Even in a Christian ethos school it's possible to say Christians believe X and Muslims believe Y and Jews believe Z. I have no issue with this. The school can still operate on a Christian ethos while doing this.

We pretty much agree 100% on how R.E should be taught in school.

Oh! Well... this worked out better than expected :P

KeithAFC

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Neanderthal opinion.

A homo sapien opinion.

partyatmygaff

Tehachapi wrote: »

I have a big problem with this, and believe it is destroying childrens minds early on in life.

I learned religion in school and so did most people. I'm quite sure my mind is intact... Or at least I hope it is.

Just today I am reading in the newspaper we have a huge shortage of science/maths/technology skilled people in this country. Here's my theory of 1 of the reasons why:

Does this start in childhood? I went to a catholic school and was taught all the christian bullsh1t, for example - you can't tell children in 1 class "Jesus walked on water" then in the next class teach them the scientific properties of water and expect them to understand it properly.

That's odd. I seem to recall them saying it was a miracle, hence a deviation from the laws of nature. Unsurprisingly, I haven't yet attempted to walk across the Atlantic sea as I know it to be impossible for mere human beings (And most other animals) to walk across the surface of water.

Or that "Jesus turned a small amount of loaves/fishes into enough to feed thousands", then expect them not to be confused when being taught food science.

Food science? You mean learning the chemical structures of food and how they're digested e.t.c.? Regardless of the fact that "Food Science" has nothing to do with that particular incident that you mentioned I again refer you to the fact it was described as a Miracle and not as a natural occurrence.

One more example (I could list many more) , is resurrection. You can't teach children that magical resurrection after being dead for 3 days is possible, then expect them to properly understand biology.

Again, this was described as a miracle and a breaking of the normal laws of nature as a result of Jesus' divinity.

God putting man on earth, then expecting them to understand genetics, evolution, cells, etc.

There is absolutely no incompatibility between God creating existence and cellular biology unless you want there to be an incompatibility.

Others will argue that they should be taught about all faiths like is being done for junior cert religion now, but again I find this nonsensical. If I make up a religion tomorrow, praising leprechaun ghosts- should that be taught about too? Where do you draw the line?

The difference between crazy religions made up by one person and major world religions is people actually believe in the latter. If your "leprechaun ghost" religion had two billion or so followers and rising then naturally enough it'd be included on the JC Religion syllabus. Seeing as it's not, it's not included.

Tehachapi wrote: »

I said at the start it was a theory I have which I would like to discuss. Now you can answer me this - how does it BENEFIT childrens understanding of biology/physics in any way by teaching them creationism, walking on water, miracles, etc.

For one, no primary school in Ireland teaches creationism. The fact you don't know this would lead me to believe you don't really know what you're talking about.

How does History benefit children's understanding of Biology/Physics? How does Art benefit children's understanding of biology/physics? It doesn't as it doesn't intend to. Life's not all about science. It's one thing to study life and another thing to live.

All it does is confuse them when learning about science.

No it doesn't. I've never heard of a single person being confused by science as a result of religion.

Confusion leads to anger and resentment towards the education system.

Obviously I can't prove this at the moment,

Can you prove it next week? Maybe we'll set up an exhibition where you can prove that Religion makes children confused and hence makes them angry and resentful towards the education system?

just like I can't prove gravity.

Proofs exist only in mathematics. That said, you can give evidence for gravity.

But it's the only theory that makes sense at the moment - I'm not willing to jump off a building to test it out.

And it doesn't involve jumping off buildings either...

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I think people who have secular views should step up to the plate and start calling religious people out on their psychological* and physical** abuse of children whether it's in state sponsored schools or not.

Oh dear. I must've been sleepwalking or something when I psychologically and physically abused all those children that I never met. At least i'm not as bad as those nasty, evil, baby-eating Atheists.

Generalisations are apparently only generalisations when they're being made about you and not by you. Who'd have guessed?

Ellis Dee

Tehachapi wrote: »

I have a big problem with this, and believe it is destroying childrens minds early on in life. Just today I am reading in the newspaper we have a huge shortage of science/maths/technology skilled people in this country. Here's my theory of 1 of the reasons why:

Does this start in childhood? I went to a catholic school and was taught all the christian bullsh1t, for example - you can't tell children in 1 class "Jesus walked on water" then in the next class teach them the scientific properties of water and expect them to understand it properly. Or that "Jesus turned a small amount of loaves/fishes into enough to feed thousands", then expect them not to be confused when being taught food science. One more example (I could list many more) , is resurrection. You can't teach children that magical resurrection after being dead for 3 days is possible, then expect them to properly understand biology. God putting man on earth, then expecting them to understand genetics, evolution, cells, etc.

Some will argue "oh those stories are just symbolic" - that is bullsh1t. There is no reference card indicating which parts of the bible are to be interpreted as fact, and which as symbolic. Why not just stamp it out altogether, stick to the facts and let them decide on a faith when they are adults , if they want to instead of it being rammed down their throats. These are young, innocent, highly impressionable children. Others will argue that they should be taught about all faiths like is being done for junior cert religion now, but again I find this nonsensical. If I make up a religion tomorrow, praising leprechaun ghosts- should that be taught about too? Where do you draw the line?

Religion is strictly for the birds! That's my honest opinion.:rolleyes:

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people in Ireland still haven't copped on to the reality of the merda taurorum that is being indoctrinated into children from a very early age. In spite of the Ryan Report, the Murphy Report, the Magdalene Women, and all the other stuff that was done by elements of the Holy Roman Apostolic and Kiddy-Fiddling Church, the penny still hasn't dropped for many.

Let's face it, they are screwing your kids some of the time, but fcuking your heads all of the time.

Freedom of religion is OK, I suppose, but it must also include freedom to ignore, steer well clear of religion. And that is not a realistic option in many parts of Ireland. Try living in, say, Tullamore and not wanting your child to receive sky-fairy brainwashing at school or have to take part in those ridiculous "holy communion" rituals. Much less chance if you live in a smaller place.

Fortunately, I was able to bring up my children in a country where the (excellent) schools are run by local authorities under State supervision and no church or religious organisation has any hand, act or part in the way they operate. The only thing taught that has any bearing on religion is a general course dealing with the main religions and philosophies in the world. The kids turned out all right as well.;)

There is nothing to stop parents sending their children to religious classes at churches or similar places, if they really want to, but school should be a place to learn how to think, not how to believe and stop thinking:cool:.

autonomy

No, I think if parents want to tell their children about a 'god' or 'jesus' like they fib about santa and the easter bunny then so be it, but it definitely should not be taught in schools, absolute nonsense!

partyatmygaff

Ellis Dee wrote: »

There is nothing to stop parents sending their children to religious classes at churches or similar places, if they really want to, but school should be a place to learn how to think, not how to believe and stop thinking:cool:.

Belief doesn't make you stop thinking. The same way lack of belief doesn't necessarily make you any more of a "thinker" than anyone else.

dvpower

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I'm quite sure my mind is intact... Or at least I hope it is.

I'm sure your mind is intact.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I seem to recall them saying it was a miracle, hence a deviation from the laws of nature [...] I again refer you to the fact it was described as a Miracle and not as a natural occurrence. [...] Again, this was described as a miracle and a breaking of the normal laws of nature

Slippage?

philologos

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I think people who have secular views should step up to the plate and start calling religious people out on their psychological* and physical** abuse of children whether it's in state sponsored schools or not.



*Telling children that because they were born bad a man was tortured and murdered on a cross 2000 years ago. (Such nasty minded rubbish).

**Genital mutilation.

Why don't you ask the State to take every child who lives with believers into care too? :pac:

KeithAFC

I always thought Atheists appreciate freedom and free thinking? The choice for people to make up their own mind? Seems not if we are to go by some posts in this thread.

Chuck Stone

Chuck Stone wrote: »

This is all fcuked up^^. Stalin was a communist dictator who murdered people because he was a sadist. Nobody is calling for the murder of theists - just *the supression of religion which we believe to be all false*

I was on about this.

Good luck comrade. People died for freedom of religion, which means the right to believe what you want, and teach your kids what you want.

The only way you're going to get "all religion is bullsh*t" into schools is the way people have been repressing different religions for centuries- by lethal force & indoctrination.

flutterflye

celticcrash wrote: »

mindfullness, meditation, not religion, show them how the mind works, 16 to 20 years of schooling, learning about the outside world and how to control it and people cant control their own emotions.

I really like this idea actually.

I still think religion should be taught in the way and for the reasons I already mentioned.

But I think all of what you said should also be taught.

Stress is without a doubt one of the largest issues in the western world.
Children should be taught mindfullness, meditation etc... too.
Well I guess this would be included when learning about Buddhism.

Also, your point on emotional regulation, and nuero biology - I would also love to see this being taught to kids.

Oh and critical and lateral thinking too!

It would all be so much nicer than the way it is at present.


Also, on a side note - Why the f*ck are people going on and on about IT? and religion making people stupid?!
For starters, religion doesn't make anyone stupid.
And secondly, there are plenty of gobsh1tes in IT!

partyatmygaff

dvpower wrote: »

I'm sure your mind is intact.


Slippage?

No, I just wanted to address each part of his post separately. Hence why I included the word "Again"...

pbowenroe

all hail the mighty leprechaun ghosts

My name is URL

KeithAFC wrote: »

I always thought Atheists appreciate freedom and free thinking? The choice for people to make up their own mind? Seems not if we are to go by some posts in this thread.

Yeah but there's not exactly a lot of room for free thinking in most primary schools here, where kids are prepared for communion/confirmation etc as if it's part of their education.

I know people will say it's up to the parents to decide whether or not to have their kids take part in religious education but the whole system is geared towards them taking part.. and it shouldn't be.

I'm only talking about primary school, mind. RE in secondary school isn't really as intrinsic to a students routine.