Should religion be taught in schools?

Niles

I think it depends. I wouldn't agree with it being mandatory in a public school (although if it's there as an optional subject fair enough). If parents want to send their children to a denominational school then that's their choice. I went to a Christian Brothers School (though there were no longer any Brothers there) and there were some non-Catholics who merely sat in on religion (obviously they couldn't be left unsupervised, but didn't have to pay attention to/participate in the class itself).

flutterflye

Why is a lot of this thread focused on religion v atheism again?!

The thread is not about that. (is it?)

It's not about which is best, or belittling either outlook, or whether or not kids should be taught religion.

It's about whether or not religion has a place in school.
This is what I thought anyway.

KeithAFC

My name is URL wrote: »

Yeah but there's not exactly a lot of room for free thinking in most primary schools here, where kids are prepared for communion/confirmation etc as if it's part of their education.

I know people will say it's up to the parents to decide whether or not to have their kids take part in religious education but the whole system is geared towards them taking part.. and it shouldn't be.

I'm only talking about primary school, mind. RE in secondary school isn't really as intrinsic to a students routine.

The thing is, what harm is it doing? I went to a primary school which had prayers etc and you can say a lot of us weren't religious at all and stayed like that going into high school.

If some people get something out of it, i don't see the problem to be honest. People have all sorts of religious or spirtual beliefs. They should be entitled to them and be able to learn about religion. Don't mean you have to take it in and lead your life that way.

The way some people go on, you would think every kid which goes into primary school is being converted into a faith which isn't really true.

My name is URL

KeithAFC wrote: »

The thing is, what harm is it doing? I went to a primary school which had prayers etc and you can say a lot of us weren't religious at all and stayed like that going into high school.

If some people get something out of it, i don't see the problem to be honest. People have all sorts of religious or spirtual beliefs. They should be entitled to them and be able to learn about religion. Don't mean you have to take it in and lead your life that way.

The way some people go on, you would think every kid which goes into primary school is being converted into a faith which isn't really true.

I just think there's better ways that a kid, during their most informative years, could spend their time while in education.

I don't think anyone in my class was excited about pledging their life to god on the day of their confirmation.. instead it was mainly about how much money you got, and what you did for the day.. surely that's a sign that it's a pointless exercise in schools?

It should be an opt-in thing.. not an opt-out one.

whatdoicare

KeithAFC wrote: »

The thing is, what harm is it doing? I went to a primary school which had prayers etc and you can say a lot of us weren't religious at all and stayed like that going into high school.

If some people get something out of it, i don't see the problem to be honest. People have all sorts of religious or spirtual beliefs. They should be entitled to them and be able to learn about religion. Don't mean you have to take it in and lead your life that way.

The way some people go on, you would think every kid which goes into primary school is being converted into a faith which isn't really true.

It promotes a way of thinking ie: This is our school, we are accepted and catered for and if you're not part of it, you are different. Go over there and wait quietly for us to finish our important duties.
And to a child that means a lot. In my view, it's like bullying, only accepted by grown ups.

dvpower

KeithAFC wrote: »

The thing is, what harm is it doing? I went to a primary school which had prayers etc and you can say a lot of us weren't religious at all and stayed like that going into high school.

I don't get this 'what harm is it doing' arguement.

Just try to imagine if tonight the Minister for Education was to announce that from next week all Catholic primary schools were to become Muslim primary schools. Would you still hold the same position?

Osgoodisgood

flutterflye wrote: »

For starters, religion doesn't make anyone stupid.

You really want to go there?

Kent Hovind
Osama Bin Laden
Ken Ham
Pat Robertson

Or maybe you're thinking they were stupid before they found religion?

philologos

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

Or maybe you're thinking they were stupid before they found religion?

What would be stupid would be thinking that an atheist must be smarter than a believer simply because they are an atheist.

KeithAFC

dvpower wrote: »

I don't get this 'what harm is it doing' arguement.

Just try to imagine if tonight the Minister for Education was to announce that from next week all Catholic primary schools were to become Muslim primary schools. Would you still hold the same position?

I don't think that would happen because you have schools for different faiths. It is a moot point. That wasn't my point. If you can explain what harm it is doing for school kids to learn religious education, then im all ears.

AnneElizabeth

Just an interesting fact, "irreligious" people are by far the most likely targets for cults. I do think it's important to have some religion so that you have something to compare other religions to. I don't think people should be forced to learn a religion but I do like living in a country where almost everyone is the same religion, so I know what to expect/how to act at weddings, christenings and funerals and it's also makes us more similar as a nation. There's nothing wrong with religious communities, however I strongly disagree with backward religious practices such as circumcision, you'll go to hell if you don't go to church etc.

If the parents want their children to be taught religion they should be allowed, but it should not be mandatory. But if you're in a religious school you should be respectful of the religion.

Osgoodisgood

philologos wrote: »

I'm still hugely perplexed as to the hyperbolic use of "indoctrination" by some on boards.

No you're not.
You know very well that people object to religion getting its talons into children while they're at school. Religion should have no more special access to kids than the Origami Society but it does and it uses its free pass to easily influenced minds to create a new generation of followers.

So spare me your faux astonishment at words like "indoctrination" when you are perfectly aware of the emotions that give rise to this growing disconnect between modern society and your bronze age grab-bag of rituals and fearmongering.

philologos

I am in that I think "indoctrination" isn't what one is describing in earnest.

I believe in Christ because I'm convinced that Christianity will ultimately make the world a better place. If people are interested they can find out more, if not then they're not. Ultimately Christians tell people about Christ because they care about them. It's as simple as that.

richymcdermott

Threads like these must be destroyed

Osgoodisgood

philologos wrote: »

What would be stupid would be thinking that an atheist must be smarter than a believer simply because they are an atheist.

Possibly. But as I didn't say that your comment is redundant. Nice try.

whatdoicare

KeithAFC wrote: »

I don't think that would happen because you have schools for different faiths.

In Dublin maybe......rest of Ireland, not really available at all!

dvpower

KeithAFC wrote: »

I don't think that would happen because you have schools for different faiths.

In any practical sense, we don't have schools for different faiths. In rural areas there is no practical choice at all - there is the local RC school, that's it.
Even in Dublin city where I live, if I was to send my children to an ET school, I would have to separate them from their local friends and have a heap of logistical and financial difficulties.

KeithAFC wrote: »

If you can explain what harm it is doing for school kids to learn religious education, then im all ears.

I presume you mean religious instruction. The 'harm' is in being marked out as different, of being excluded from classes. In some cases the harm is caused by being rejected from entry to the school in the first place because of the discrimination that is permitted on religious grounds.

I presume you are CoI? Could you see harm in your children getting RCC instruction?

partyatmygaff

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

You really want to go there?

Kent Hovind
Osama Bin Laden
Ken Ham
Pat Robertson

Or maybe you're thinking they were stupid before they found religion?

Deary me...

Osama was a Muslim. Osama was bigoted and idiotic. Therefore, all religious people are bigoted and idiotic.

Stalin was an Atheist. Stalin was also extremely evil and sadistic. Therefore, all Atheists are extremely evil and sadistic.

There's nothing that says AH like inductive reasoning and generalisations.

philologos

dvpower wrote: »

I presume you are CoI? Could you see harm in your children getting RCC instruction?

Not really personally for any hypothetical children. Opting out of communion / confirmation would probably be the only difficulty.

dvpower

AnneElizabeth wrote: »

Just an interesting fact, "irreligious" people are by far the most likely targets for cults. I do think it's important to have some religion so that you have something to compare other religions to.

Priceless. Get into a cult to save yourself from being recruited to a cult.:pac:

KeithAFC

dvpower wrote: »

In any practical sense, we don't have schools for different faiths. In rural areas there is no practical choice at all - there is the local RC school, that's it.
Even in Dublin city where I live, if I was to send my children to an ET school, I would have to separate them from their local friends and have a heap of logistical and financial difficulties.


I presume you mean religious instruction. The 'harm' is in being marked out as different, of being excluded from classes. In some cases the harm is caused by being rejected from entry to the school in the first place because of the discrimination that is permitted on religious grounds.

I presume you are CoI? Could you see harm in your children getting RCC instruction?

No. I don't have a religion. Come from a Protestant background family wise (surprise ) but i thought the argument was religious education being taught in schools, not exactly if a school is for a certain people who follow a faith.

dvpower

philologos wrote: »

Not really personally for any hypothetical children. Opting out of communion / confirmation would probably be the only difficulty.

Point taken. Mind you, in Keith's neck of the woods where the have all kinds of schools, they tend not to swap and change so well.

KeithAFC wrote: »

No. I don't have a religion. Come from a Protestant background family wise (surprise ) but i thought the argument was religious education being taught in schools, not exactly if a school is for a certain people who follow a faith.

Religious education in schools is no problem at all. Religious instruction is a different kettle of fish altogether.

Osgoodisgood

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Deary me...

Osama was a Muslim.

Thanks for that. In case you were still wondering, it's been confirmed that Islam is a religion as well and therefore qualifies for this discussion. Do try to keep up.

There's nothing that says AH like inductive reasoning and generalisations.

Quite

saa

I don't see why someone has to chose a religion if any before the age of 18 even before the age of 14 they can't really give consent or understand what they believe, as for schooling goes in secondary school its okay to teach about religion in a theoretical way but not a whole class pupils have better things to be learning about although it is important not to be ignorant about things that are out there whether theyre bad or not

partyatmygaff

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

Thanks for that. In case you were still wondering, it's been confirmed that Islam is a religion as well and therefore qualifies for this discussion. Do try to keep up.

Quite

I'm sorry but what the hell are you talking about?

You just quoted random bits of my post and replied with some senseless rhetoric and you're telling me to keep up?

flutterflye

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

Or maybe you're thinking they were stupid before they found religion?

Well.................. :pac:

Nah, I honestly don't think religious people are stupid.

To genuinely believe as such would mean that you would have to selectively ignore the fact that there are a countless amount of incredible minds within pretty much every field.
Who would also follow a religion, or hold a belief in something requiring them to suspend logical thinking.

However, I do think that to follow a religion, generally people must be somewhat underdeveloped in lateral thinking in some areas.

There is no need for anyone to go and point out cases in which this person or that person is very creative, and is also a person of faith.
This will not prove my point to be wrong.

Lateral thinking isn't boxed in to one part of your brain.
You are not either a lateral thinker or a box thinker.
Some people are more generally lateral than others though of course.

If a person is lacking life experience, has not come in contact with many different cultures, ideas,or views, has been under-stimulated, suffered trauma, become very frightened, been dominated, controlled, or indoctrinated in some major way, been directly or indirectly faced with death or serious illness, or just simply inherited or learned poor coping mechanisms or critical thinking skills.......

I believe depending on the person, the place, the time, and the specific chain of events, that any of the examples suggested above (and many more unmentioned examples) could lead a person to be somewhat deficient in independent and critical thought processes in some aspects of their development.

Which may or may not lead to, consciously or subconsciously, seeking solace in religion.

It could also lead to any amount of alternative or additional reactions, such as mental illness, addiction, obsession, immersion, repression, determination, and so on.

Religion is simply a learned way of understanding your subjective perception of life.
It answers the hows, the whys, the ups, and the downs.
It allows for you to meet your unmet needs, directly and indirectly, knowingly, and unintentionally.
It gives purpose and meaning to life.
It gives purpose and meaning to legal and social laws.
It gives you the feeling of being loved, heard, and cared about, no matter what.
And of course it helps you deal with your own mortality.

Last point I want to make-

An awful lot of atheists believe that they are free thinkers, that they are more intelligent, that they are superior.

Just because you do not follow a religion does not mean that any of this is true.
All it means is that you are different, you have had different experiences, you perceive the world differently, you have your own coping strategies, you have your own way of making sense of the world that suits you.

To me, it seems absolutely ridiculous that there is a man in the sky who made us all, or that we will all come back as bugs....

But I think that people can go about believing whatever they like that helps them get through life, so long as by doing so, it does not negatively impact on me, my life, my loved ones, and society at large.

The end.

LighterGuy

I'm getting a really heavy biast atheist tone in this thread.
And from what i've noticed with some people who dont believe in religion, its usually pushing their atheist views rather than their opinion.

we all know there is a good percentage of religious people who "force" their views onto others.... atheists do the same.
We have all heard the lines "i pity you that you dont believe in the lord" - that makes said person a dick for saying that. But equally, an atheist saying "someone is stupid" for beliving in a god is also a dick.

Crow92 wrote: »

I think religion should be taught in school, world religion, informative information on the beliefs of all the major religions of the world, not focusing on raising you as a catholic but teaching you above all different religions.

that is a fair opinion. Sure ireland has opened its doors to different cultures in recent decades. So we cant really teach one religion and it should always be a person choice.

dvpower

LighterGuy wrote: »

I'm getting a really heavy biast atheist tone in this thread.
And from what i've noticed with some people who dont believe in religion, its usually pushing their atheist views rather than their opinion..

So we're all agreed then - pushing religious or atheist views is bad - both inside and outside the school system.

LighterGuy

dvpower wrote: »

So we're all agreed then - pushing religious or atheist views is bad - both inside and outside the school system.

you being sarcastic?

AnneElizabeth

dvpower wrote: »

Priceless. Get into a cult to save yourself from being recruited to a cult.:pac:

Maybe you should learn your facts.

Niles

Is it really bad for a church run school to teach its own religion though? I mean, it's doing what it says on the tin, is it not? If I didn't want my child to be taught Catholicism then I wouldn't send them to a Catholic school - simples.